Mr. STOMBAUGH. Black taken in itself would go from, all the way from,
very grayish-light gray all the way down to dense black.
Mr. EISENBERG. How many different shades can you distinguish?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Black is different. There are only about 25 or 30
shades, I would say, in black.
Mr. EISENBERG. So you identified the fibers you found on the butt plate
as matching the fibers you found in the shirt, not only as to color but
as to shades within those colors, out of a range going from 25 in the
gray-black or black area to 50 to 100 in the yellow and blue areas?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. That is correct.
Mr. EISENBERG. And degrees of twist were all the same?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. They were the same.
Mr. EISENBERG. Any other characteristics?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Just type of fibers, they were all cotton fibers.
Mr. EISENBERG. On the basis of these examinations, did you draw a
conclusion as to the probability of the cotton fibers found in the butt
plate having come from the shirt pictured in Exhibit 673?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes, sir; it was my opinion that these fibers could
easily have come from the shirt.
Mr. EISENBERG. Could you go into that in a little more detail, Mr.
Stombaugh?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes. Mainly because the fibers or the shirt is composed
of point one, cotton, and point two, three basic colors. I found all
three colors together on the gun.
Now if the shirt had been composed of 10 or 15 different colors and
types of fibers and I only had found 3 of them, then I would feel that
I had not found enough, but I found fibers on the gun which I could
match with the fibers composing this shirt, so I feel the fibers could
easily have come from the shirt.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Stombaugh, I asked you a hypothetical question
before concerning whether the rifle could have been a mechanism for
transferring fibers from the blanket into the paper bag, and as I
recall you said it could have.
Now, is it inconsistent with that answer that no fibers were found on
the gun which matched the fibers in the blanket?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. No; because the gun was dusted for fingerprints and any
fibers that were loosely adhering to it could have been dusted off.
The only reason, I feel, that these fibers remained on the butt plate
is because they were pulled from the fabric by the jagged edge and
adhered to the gun and then the fingerprint examiner with his brush, I
feel, when brushing and dusting this butt plate, stroked them down into
that crevice where they couldn't be knocked off.
In time these fibers would have undoubtedly become dislodged and fallen
off the gun.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Stombaugh, is there anything you would like to add
to your testimony?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. No, sir; I can think of nothing else.
Mr. DULLES. And you found no other pieces of fabric or other foreign
material on the gun?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Nothing that I could associate with either the blanket
or the shirt. I found----
Mr. DULLES. Or the paper bag?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Or the paper bag; no, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. Just one further question. You said something like, "It
was possible the fibers could have come from the shirt." Could you
estimate the degree of probability that the fibers came from the shirt,
the fibers in the butt plate?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Well, this is difficult because we don't know how many
different shirts were made out of this same type of fabric, or for that
matter how many identical shirts are in existence.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Stombaugh, I gather that, and correct me if I am
wrong, that in your area as opposed to the fingerprint area, you prefer
to present the facts rather than draw conclusions as to probabilities,
is that correct?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. That is correct. I have been asked this question many
times. There are some experts who will say well, the chances are 1 in
1,000, this, that, and the other, and everyone who had said that and
been brought to our attention we have been able to prove them wrong,
insofar as application to our fiber problems is concerned.
Mr. EISENBERG. You mean prove them wrong in terms of their mathematics?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. There is just no way at this time to be able to
positively state that a particular small group of fibers came from
a particular source, because there just aren't enough microscopic
characteristics present in these fibers.
We cannot say, "Yes, these fibers came from this shirt to the exclusion
of all other shirts."
Mr. EISENBERG. We appreciate your conservatism, but the Commission,
of course, has to make an estimate, and what I am trying to find out
is whether your conservatism, whether your conclusions, reflect the
inability to draw mathematical determinations or conclusions, or
reflect your own doubts?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. No.
Mr. EISENBERG. Can you tell us which that is?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. There is no doubt in my mind that these fibers could
have come from this shirt. There is no way, however, to eliminate the
possibility of the fibers having come from another identical shirt.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, in your mind what do you feel about the origin of
the fibers you found in the bag?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. I didn't find enough fibers in the bag to form an
opinion on those.
Now if I would have found, say 15 or 20 fibers and all 15 or 20 matched
the fibers from the blanket, then I could say, "Yes, I feel that these
very easily could have come from the blanket." But I didn't. I only
found two of the many types.
Mr. EISENBERG. Okay. I have no further questions.
Mr. DULLES. Do you have any further questions?
Mr. MURRAY. No; I have no further questions.
Mr. DULLES. I have no further questions.
Thank you, Mr. Stombaugh, we appreciate your coming.