She said, "Lee comes off work at 5:30, comes from work at 5:30. They
left at 5 o'clock," meaning the agents, "and we told them if they
wanted they could wait and Lee would be here soon, but they didn't want
to wait."
Does that refresh your recollection in that connection?
Mrs. PAINE. It may certainly have happened that way. My recollection
stands as I told it yesterday.
Mr. JENNER. That it was more toward the middle of the afternoon?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes, 3:00 or 3:30.
Mr. JENNER. And did you advise them, or do you have a recollection of
having advised them that he was expected later that day for the weekend?
Mrs. PAINE. I only recall that I said he came on weekends or would be
available to be seen here at my home, in other words, on weekends.
Mr. JENNER. She also has a recollection that at this particular visit
there was only one agent rather than two.
Mrs. PAINE. That is my recollection, also.
Mr. JENNER. That is your recollection?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes; it is.
Mr. JENNER. And that was Mr. Hosty?
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. It could have been, Mrs. Paine, but your recollection
doesn't serve you sufficiently at the moment, that Mr. Hosty was
advised on the occasion of that conference that Lee Oswald was expected
that particular weekend?
Mrs. PAINE. It could have been.
Mr. JENNER. Yes. That is, you don't want to take issue with Marina's
testimony?
Mrs. PAINE. Oh, I don't; no.
Mr. JENNER. It possibly could have happened that way?
Mrs. PAINE. It certainly could have.
Mr. JENNER. But, in any event, you do remember clearly and distinctly
that you advised Mr. Hosty that Lee did visit on weekends and that Mr.
Hosty could return the next weekend or even this particular weekend to
see Lee Oswald if he wished?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. In any event, you further advised him at that time that he
was employed at the Texas School Book Depository?
Mrs. PAINE. I did indeed. May I interrupt?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. PAINE. Could we have a short break?
(Brief recess.)
Mr. JENNER. During the course of the interview on November 1, was there
any reference to Lee's having passed out leaflets for the FPCC?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes; I believe so.
Mr. JENNER. And was there any inquiry as to whether Lee was engaging
in or had engaged or was engaging in similar activity in the
Dallas-Irving-Fort Worth area?
Mrs. PAINE. There was reference to it, I suppose in the nature of an
inquiry. I don't recall.
Mr. JENNER. Does this refresh your recollection that Marina said
through you that Lee was not engaging in such activities in the
Dallas-Irving-Fort Worth area?
Mrs. PAINE. That seems correct to me.
Mr. JENNER. Marina was present, was she, at a subsequent interview on
the 5th of November?
Mrs. PAINE. No; she was not.
Mr. JENNER. She was not? She likewise describes the November 1
interview similarly as you did, that it was in the nature of a
conversation rather than an interview. That was your impression, was it
not?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Did your brother ever engage in any political activity?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall it offhand.
Mr. JENNER. Your sister, Sylvia?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. Or her husband?
Mrs. PAINE. No. I am sure they all vote when the opportunity affords.
Mr. JENNER. Oh, yes; of course.
Mrs. PAINE. But you don't mean that?
Mr. JENNER. I don't mean that. I mean active political party activity
of some kind.
Mrs. PAINE. I don't have any specific recollection.
Mr. JENNER. And you never did?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. Is your brother a member of the American Civil Liberties
Union?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't know.
Mr. JENNER. Or your sister?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't know.
Mr. JENNER. Is your sister active as you are or a member of the League
of Women Voters?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't know that.
Mr. JENNER. Your relations with your mother and your father--would you
say you were rather close to your father and your mother?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes, I am close to both of them. I am particularly close to
my mother.
Mr. JENNER. And is that likewise true of your brother and your sister,
you have a close relation with your folks?
Mrs. PAINE. I think I have the closest relation to my mother, and
possibly my brother and sister-in-law, who are near in Ohio, are closer
to my father, and I just can't say as to my sister's relationship,
meaning I don't know.
Mr. JENNER. The relationships between yourself, your brother, your
sister, your mother and your father, you are compatible? You are
interested in each other's activities?
Mrs. PAINE. That is correct.
Mr. JENNER. Do you exchange correspondence?
Mrs. PAINE. We do, and photographs of the children.
Mr. JENNER. And you have a lively interest in what each is doing, and
they in you?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And that has always been true, has it not?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And do you exchange your troubles and your interests with
each other?
Mrs. PAINE. When we visit. We are, none of us, terribly good
letterwriters.
Mr. JENNER. From what I have seen I would take exception. I think you
are too modest. There has been a good deal of letterwriting.
Mrs. PAINE. There has been a good deal of correspondence over the
years; yes.
Mr. JENNER. And at least until recently, I don't know if you still do
it, you were inclined to retain the originals of that correspondence
and also copies of your letters, were you not?
Mrs. PAINE. For a goodly portion of the correspondence; yes.
Mr. JENNER. Now, I have, which I will mark only for identification,
three file cases of correspondence of your themes or writings in
college. You might be better able to describe what is in these boxes
than I in the way of general summary. Would you do so?
Mrs. PAINE. It also includes information helpful to me in recreation
leadership, games, something of songs. It includes a list of the people
to whom I sent birth announcements, things of that nature.
Mr. JENNER. It covers a span of years going back to your college days?
Mrs. PAINE. And a few papers prior to college.
Mr. JENNER. I have marked these boxes for identification numbers 457,
458, and 459. During my meeting with you Wednesday morning, I exhibited
the contents of those boxes to you, and are the materials in the boxes
other than material which is printed or is obviously from some other
source that which purports to be in your handwriting, actually in your
handwriting?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And those pieces of correspondence which purport to be
letters from your mother, your father, your brother, and your sister
are likewise the originals of those letters?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And the copies of letters which purport to be letters from
you to your mother, father, sister, and brother, and in some instances
others are copies of letters that you dispatched?
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. JENNER. Back on the record, please.
We asked you yesterday if you loaned any money to Marina or to Lee
Oswald, and your answer was in the negative.
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. We asked you if you had given any money to either of them,
and your answer was in the negative, that is, cash.
Mrs. PAINE. I gave no cash.
Mr. JENNER. You gave no cash to either. What do you know about
expenditures by Lee Oswald for such items as bus fare from Dallas to
Irving and from Irving back to Dallas while looking for employment?
Mrs. PAINE. I recall taking him to the bus station once and picking
him up once. There may have been another occasion, but my specific
recollection is as to these two times.
Mr. JENNER. Just those two times? You already told us about the time he
went to New Orleans, he bought two bus tickets and then he cashed in
one. That was in the spring.
Mrs. PAINE. That was in late April.
Mr. JENNER. The same question with respect to telephone calls. You have
already told us that was not a toll call from Dallas to Irving.
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. Did he make telephone calls while he was at your home at
any time?
Mrs. PAINE. Nothing except this one I have mentioned, the time and
temperature.
Mr. JENNER. What recollection did you have with respect to this
purchasing of food for meals and whatnot either in New Orleans, Dallas,
or in Irving?
Mrs. PAINE. In New Orleans he purchased all the food that we used
while there. In Irving, then after October 4 I saw him buy a few items
for the baby or for June, things that Marina had requested, but no
groceries.
Mr. JENNER. Now the same question with respect to clothing for himself,
for Marina, and for June and Rachel. You have told us about the one
instance in which he gave Marina some money to buy shoes for June,
which was----
Mrs. PAINE. No, the shoes were for Marina.
Mr. JENNER. Were for Marina, and this had occurred during the week of
the assassination?
Mrs. PAINE. Our plan was to go out on Friday afternoon, the 22d of
November, to buy these shoes. Just when he gave her the money, I am not
certain. And these, of course, were not bought. I can think of nothing
that was bought. Yes, one thing. When she was with me in the spring,
late April to the 9th of May, she had some money from Lee for her own
expenses, and she used a portion of this, I would think a rather large
portion, buying a pair of maternity shorts, or they may have been
Bermuda shorts, longer than that, slacks, even, possibly, but I know
they cost nearly $5, and this was quite a large expenditure and quite a
thrill. These were bought in Irving.
Mr. JENNER. Was it your impression that they had or at least that
Marina was afforded very limited funds?
Mrs. PAINE. That is distinctly my impression.
Mr. JENNER. They never paid you anything, in any event?
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. Now, the same question with respect to laundry. That would
be his laundry largely. I take it from your telling us about you and
Marina hanging up clothes in your backyard on the 22d of November that
neither you nor she ever sent any laundry out for cleaning or washing.
Mrs. PAINE. No; and Lee brought his underwear and shirts to be washed
at my house, and then Marina ironed his things and he would take clean
things with him on Monday.
Mr. JENNER. So that as far as you recall, he made no expenditures for
laundry?
Mrs. PAINE. That is correct.
Mr. JENNER. At least during the time that Marina was with you.
Mrs. PAINE. At least during the fall; yes.
Mr. JENNER. Any expenditures on his part to have his hair cut, that is,
any expenditures to the barber, to a barber?
Mrs. PAINE. I guess there must have been such. I don't recall it having
been mentioned. I certainly wasn't around.
Mr. JENNER. We did ask you yesterday something about some local barber
who seemed to think that Lee had called regularly on Fridays or
Saturday morning at the barber shop. Your impression of that is that
that was not Lee who did that.
Mrs. PAINE. That is my impression.
Mr. JENNER. In any event, you don't recall him ever buddying with or
having a 14-year-old boy with whom he went around while he was in
Irving?
Mrs. PAINE. I certainly do not recall.
Mr. JENNER. Would your recollection be to the contrary, that he did not?
Mrs. PAINE. My recollection is distinctly to the contrary.
Mr. JENNER. Now, do you recall that he ever purchased any records, that
is playing records, songs?
Mrs. PAINE. No; I recall no such.
Mr. JENNER. The purchase of camera film and the development of camera
film?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. You are aware from reports of Marina's testimony that she
took some pictures of him?
Mrs. PAINE. I read in the paper.
Mr. JENNER. Was there any picturetaking during the period, during the
fall of 1963, either in New Orleans or in Irving or in Dallas?
Mrs. PAINE. Not by either Lee or Marina that I heard of.
Mr. JENNER. And did you hear any conversation between them in your
presence or with you with respect to his or they having a snapshot
camera or other type of camera to take pictures?
Mrs. PAINE. No; the only reference to a camera was made by Lee when he
held up and showed me a camera he had bought in the Soviet Union and
said he couldn't buy film for it in this country, it was a different
size.
Mr. JENNER. Did they ever exhibit any snapshots to you?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes; a few snapshots taken in Minsk.
Mr. JENNER. But no snapshots of any scenes in America that they had
taken?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. Or people?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. What is your impression as to whether Lee gave Marina any
fixed or regular sum of money, by the week or the month?
Mrs. PAINE. When she was with me, she received no such regular sum of
money.
Mr. JENNER. Have you now told us all you can recall as to funds given
by Lee to Marina?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Is Hutch's Market--is that something familiar to you?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Is that a local grocery store or delicatessen store?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. In Irving?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Do you recall an occasion when Lee took Marina to Hutch's
Market to purchase some groceries?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall such an occasion. I do recall that Marina
and I, or perhaps it was only I went in and bought milk there. I think
this was on our way to my house on the 24th of April. But it is not the
store I usually go to, and I am quite certain it is--it is too far to
walk--I am quite certain----
Mr. JENNER. How far away is the place?
Mrs. PAINE. It would be a 3-minute drive--about 10 blocks.
Mr. JENNER. Ten blocks away?
Mrs. PAINE. Something like that.