Maybe it was an excuse that she just didn't want to, hearing of his
personality. Maybe there is something else, I don't know. But that was
very strange because they always carry on with every Russian, you know.
Mr. JENNER. Now, you gave them these language records?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. A phonograph.
Mr. JENNER. A little phonograph to play them on. You gave them money
that you had received from George Bouhe?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Right.
Mr. JENNER. But you didn't give them any of your own money?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Not that I ever recall.
Mr. JENNER. You brought them gifts?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Just tiny little things.
Mr. JENNER. Yes. You gave her some clothing.
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I personally didn't. She didn't need it already.
By the time we got to know her she had too much clothes and my clothes
was too big for her. I was trying to fit her some of my things, some
slacks or something. They were too big. It was too much trouble to have
it altered for her and she didn't need to.
Mr. JENNER. You mentioned on one occasion when she was at your home
overnight you gave her----
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That is just for the night, the nightgown, like
that.
Mr. JENNER. Do you know if Oswald received any financial assistance
in addition to that which he received from Mr. Bouhe? Did Oswald ever
discuss his finances with you and your husband?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I don't think so. I don't think we talked much
about that. It is just that it is pretty tight because they have to pay
out the debt.
Mr. JENNER. Did he ever express any views that were antagonistic to the
United States and its form of government?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Never. He objected to the way the integration
question was handled, in this way. And I think we all do.
Mr. JENNER. He was opposed to segregation, was he?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Of course, he was opposed to segregation. He
wanted complete equality of rights because those people are just
American as everybody else so it is really one of the worst problems we
have.
Mr. JENNER. I appreciate that, but I am trying to find out what his
views were.
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; he is completely in accord with President
Kennedy's policy on the subject. That is why it doesn't make exactly
sense. He has no reason whatsoever, to our knowledge. Maybe he had
something inside which he never disclosed to us, you know.
Mr. JENNER. Now, there have been interruptions yesterday and today in
which we have been off the record and we have had some discussions.
Is there anything that you have said to me or I have said to you off
the record, that is, not when it was taken down, that I have failed
to bring out that you might regard in any degree pertinent to this
investigation?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, the only thing, the question I actually
brought up yesterday, it was not about Oswald. I mean in my thinking
it was. I think you should investigate Ruby inside out because it just
doesn't make any sense. That is what bothers me.
Mr. JENNER. Do you know Jack Ruby?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No.
Mr. JENNER. Otherwise known as Jack Rubinstein?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Never heard of him.
Mr. JENNER. Did you or your husband ever frequent or were you ever in
the Carousel Club or any of those night clubs?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No.
Mr. JENNER. That he operated?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No.
Mr. JENNER. Were people in the Russian colony, including yourself,
disposed to attend that sort of thing.
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No; not at all.
Mr. JENNER. Did you ever hear Oswald mention the name Jack Ruby or Jack
Rubinstein?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I never heard him mention that. I don't recall
ever hearing it. I didn't know of his existence.
Mr. JENNER. You say that Oswald was a temperate man, I mean as far as
drinking is concerned?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Oh, yes; he wouldn't drink.
Mr. JENNER. Have you ever seen Jack Ruby in the flesh?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No.
Mr. JENNER. I mean apart from newsreels?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. TV? No.
Mr. JENNER. Did Marina ever mention Jack Ruby?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No; not that I recall.
Mr. JENNER. Was anything ever said that led you to believe or indicated
that either he or she separately or together had ever frequented any of
Jack Ruby's places?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Nothing at all. The only link I am searching
for is that I don't believe Jack Ruby did it because of his good
intentions. I think there is something behind that killing. That is all
there is to it. Until it is proven, I remain with my opinion, let's put
it that way.
Mr. JENNER. But your opinion is formed on what you have read in the
newspapers?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; that is the only thing I know.
Mr. JENNER. And not on any actual facts you know anything about?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No, sir; and, also based on the natural
deduction because I adore mystery stories and it just doesn't make any
sense. The whole evidence just points to--the thing is much too simple.
How could it be that if Oswald did it, could he be that completely
stupid to leave the plans, according to the newspapers we learn of the
march route of the Kennedy thing. Wouldn't he try to cover it up a
little bit, you know? It doesn't make sense at all to me. I tell you
the things that don't make sense to me. That was No. 1 doesn't make any
sense.
No. 2, knowing more or less and observing him as a personality, if he
would have done it he would say "I did it" and he would boast about it
yet. That is the kind of a person he is. For some reason he clammed up
for 2 days, and I know the Dallas police is pretty rough. He didn't
have a good time, I am sure, and he did not.
What was his reasons? Maybe he was frightened he didn't want to admit
it, he decided maybe, and maybe he didn't do it. How do I know?
It doesn't make sense at all. Anybody could take the rifle out of the
garage. I understand it was wrapped up in a blanket and standing in a
garage at Ruth Paine's; anybody could do it.
Mr. JENNER. You know nothing about any rifle except on that Saturday,
that Easter Saturday when you went to their home? That is the first
time?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. That you knew anything about a rifle?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Now, is there anything that occurs to you that you think
might be helpful to the Commission that you would like to add?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I can't think of anything. The only thing, I
would like to definitely dip into is Yaeko, because that is the only
person that was, you know, what I mean--maybe it was just because
she is an intelligent girl and she likes to read a lot. Maybe they
discussed some books, they hit it off this way, you know. Maybe he was
attracted to her just as a cute Japanese girl. I understand he was with
Marines staying in the east.
Oh, yes; I remember now. He was always telling--Marina was telling me
the Japanese are such wonderful girls. They make such good wives and so
on and so forth.
Mr. JENNER. That is, Oswald had told her that?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; and that is why Marina was so irritated
that he liked Yaeko. And she was sort of blase about it. He can take
her, you know, take his little Japanese girl; she doesn't need him,
something like that.
Mr. JENNER. She needled him?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; she needled him with Yaeko. It may be
completely imagination, you know, all of these things.
Mr. JENNER. You have appeared voluntarily?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. What did you say?
Mr. JENNER. You have appeared voluntarily for the taking of your
deposition?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Oh, absolutely.
Mr. JENNER. You and your husband received a letter, did you not, from
Mr. Rankin?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; we did.
Mr. JENNER. General counsel of the Commission?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And with which was enclosed a copy of the Senate Joint
Resolution 137?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Which is the legislation under which the Commission was
created, and a copy of President Lyndon Johnson's----
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; two copies.
Mr. JENNER. His Executive order creating the Commission, No. 11130?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And fixing its responsibilities?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; I don't know the details, but I assumed
that is what it was.
Mr. JENNER. And you also received a copy of the regulations and rules
under which these proceedings of the Commission are undertaken?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I don't remember. I probably did.
Mr. JENNER. I have no more. I appreciate very much your coming, and the
Commission does. This has been somewhat of a burden, of course, to you
and your husband, and your involvement with the Oswalds unfortunately
has led to this.
Your husband has told us in considerable detail about the Haiti venture.
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; you know this hurts us very much. You know
Haiti is just like Dallas in a way. We have been gone for 10 days in
Santo Domingo, San Juan, Santo Domingo. We come back three or four
people said, "The American Embassy is looking for you." This alone,
this fact alone is sufficient to start people thinking what is wrong
with us that the American Embassy is looking for us, you know. That
is how people are. So this is not very good, and I am sure my husband
told you there was something else was done in Haiti. You know somebody
wrote some kind of letter to the president, you know, which we don't
know. The Ambassador is looking into it and there is a couple of people
we suggested for him to see here to clear that out. That hurts very
badly. I tell you another thing what hurts us very badly. I don't mind
to come here at all and in fact it would be different another 2 weeks
from now and I would enjoy the visit here very much. It is just not too
timely because of my dogs in this condition to travel is misery. But in
driving in this morning we called our lawyer in Philadelphia to see his
little girl and he said, "Under those circumstances, you are forbidden
to see your child."
The FBI was questioning him, was questioning his wife, was questioning
the lawyer and the lawyer's wife told him that this time George did
something very big.
Mr. JENNER. Well, he didn't.
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, that is what is happening, you understand.
Here are the results. So it is the suggestion that we are going to fly
there. We cannot do it tomorrow. The court is closed. We have to go
to court and see maybe the court's order to permit, to see the child.
So you see this affects us in someway. If you can somehow--at the
moment we are concerned, of course, about Haiti and Haiti's project
because a very good thing for everybody concerned. It improves the
relations between the countries. It may help the poor people because
he discovered quite a few things, and if he can bring capital here and
mine it and make use of it, it will be wonderful, and the American
people will make money and the Haitian people will benefit by it. He is
doing something constructive, and he is really working with full heart.
The country is beautiful. We have gone on trips, he takes me whenever
possible and he is really doing something constructive.
By people's ignorance it reflects on us, and he may lose the whole
thing. Is there anyway in the future, can I discuss it with the FBI, if
they want to know anything they want to know, do it in a more discreet
way, because it definitely affects the businesswise, especially George,
you know, he is foreign born. He has a long, long name. He looks a
little bit like a German, you know. Everything is against foreigners,
let's put it that way, and it is difficult, very, very difficult.
For no reason at all, we have all the time the kicks back to us, and
when the man from the FBI came over to Port-au-Prince, you know, and
he made the remark, "Why don't you like the FBI, George, why don't you
like FBI?" I told him why we don't like FBI and we have good reasons,
because you hurt us. You hurt us very much for no reason at all, asking
people questions, and people beginning to think why would a person that
is nice and quiet make people ask questions about this person? The
minute somebody starts asking questions, it means something to it. That
is what happens. How can we avoid it? How can it be stopped?
Mr. JENNER. We will see what we can do about it.
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Really, I mean you are aware, maybe you can in
conjunction, do something about it because I do understand that we
should have Secret Service but let's have a little more secret. It is
not secret enough if they just go and openly ask all the time about the
character of the person, personality or this and that, you know. That
leaves a very bad reflection and it could be that we wouldn't be able
to see the little girl.
We are going back to Haiti. It could be right now we will be hurt by
it. I told George, "Are you sure he told you the FBI came to see?"
He said, "Yes," so here we are. That is one thing. We will do anything
we can do to help because it is our duty and I cannot say it is a
pleasure, but we are glad to do anything we can, but we cannot be hurt
like that because George would lose that now, you know we will be in a
rough spot again until something else come up and nobody knows when it
will come up.
For me, right now it is very difficult in designing because I don't
like to live in New York. In New York I can have fantastic job in
2 minutes, but I don't want to live in New York, I don't like the
climate, and in Dallas people are so narrowminded, you know.
Now that we knew Oswalds you know they really think we are boogeyman
or something. So it is really rough for both of us, and we are very
anxious that something would be done that wouldn't affect us in Haiti,
let's put it, at the moment, and in future, especially with George's
little girl.
If you can do anything about it, we would greatly appreciate it.
Mr. JENNER. Thank you very much.
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. You want the addresses?
Mr. JENNER. No; those names will be sufficient for us. Our procedure is
that you may read your deposition if you wish, and then sign it. But
you may also waive that. You don't have to do it unless you wish.
Your husband decided that he might be curious enough to read his
deposition, but if he didn't appear today that that meant he waived the
necessity of reading it.
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; he is too busy. He has so many little
things to do.
Mr. JENNER. Would you like to handle it the way he has handled it?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I am sure, because if something was not just
exactly so, I don't think it really matters.
Mr. JENNER. These men are quite competent and they take down everything.
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That is wonderful.
Mr. JENNER. Then you will waive your reading and signing?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. Do you want me to sign it? Does it have to
be signed?
Mr. JENNER. No; not unless you insist on it.
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I don't care. It doesn't matter one way or the
other.
Mr. JENNER. Thank you very, very much.