Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Oh, big hero, or look at that big shot,
something like that.
Mr. JENNER. When you say she ribbed him in front of us, that doesn't
mean anything to us. That is a conclusion.
What did she say to him?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Let me try to remember exactly. Don't forget,
I am telling right now impressions. It is very difficult to remember
exact words. But certain things led to leave that impression in my mind.
Mr. JENNER. Mrs. De Mohrenschildt, it happens that you and George,
having the time, having the inclination, being the kind of people you
are, you saw more of the Oswalds than anybody else.
And what I am trying to do is to obtain from you, not only your
impressions, but how you came by them.
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. But what I want to tell you--I don't think
it is correct. We didn't see them more than anybody else. In fact, we
saw them maybe less, because she never lived with us--she stayed once
overnight. And they have been very, very seldom at our house, very,
very seldom. I cannot exactly tell how many times. But you can count
it on your fingers how many times. And usually it was when finally I
find the time and I said come over and I will make dinner for you, or
something like that, because I knew they were not eating very well.
He didn't care for it at all, but she did. She liked to eat well, and
good things. So that was the only occasion we saw them.
So I think other people saw them even more. For instance, the people
that she lived with, absolutely, because he used to come and visit her.
Mr. JENNER. Well, you were more direct with her and with him, you and
your husband, because primarily his disposition is to speak his mind,
and Oswald respected your husband.
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. He did. He respected him, and he respected me.
And maybe that is what makes the difference with the rest of the crowd.
He never was respectful. Once, as I said, he was a little--showed a
little violence, and he said he will break all the baby's toys and tear
her dresses if we take her away from him.
I said, "Lee, where will that get you? If you really love Marina that
is the last thing you should do, then you lose her forever." And he
sort of boiled and boiled. He sat quietly, you know. And he said, all
right, he would not do it.
Mr. JENNER. Now, I asked you as to the sources of difficulty, and you
related them. Did she twit him about his inability to make enough money
so that she could live better?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. That was one complaint. Another complaint,
sexwise, he wasn't satisfactory for her. In fact, she was almost sick
that she wasn't getting enough sex, which I never heard of before, I
didn't know such things can happen to people, you know.
We saw, ourselves, he was a little difficult--for instance, with the
baby. I also objected that he didn't let her smoke. After all, she is
supposed to be a grown woman. He was definitely domineering--it has to
be just like he said and that is it. He always had a feeling that he is
the boss, and she has to--just nothing, just wipe the floor with her.
This man. So we objected to that.
Mr. JENNER. Now, you were going to tell me the basis on which you
formed your opinion as to her, you say, nagging. You used the term
"ribbing." This was not jocular, was it--not joking? It was irritating?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. It was irritating. That he was a big shot,
reading, reading, reading.
Mr. JENNER. Would say that in your presence?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. She would ridicule him, in other words?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes, in a way, yes. She said things that will
hurt men's pride. That definitely was.
Mr. JENNER. Try and recall more of that.
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I am trying to think what else she said. Also,
she objected violently that he was rude to the people that helped her.
That was very important. Because--and I know--I told you the reasons
why he objected to that, which are understandable, also.
But still, on the other hand, for instance, one incident was--I
remember the Clarks invited them for dinner, and Lee answered the
phone, and he said, when they invited him for dinner, we have other
plans. He probably didn't want to go there. That is all it was. But you
don't talk like that to people. So Marina objected to that. She told
that to me.
There were several other occasions similar to that. For instance, he
could not stand George Bouhe. He just could not stand him. And, in
a way, I don't blame him. I can't stand him, either--that type of a
person. He is okay, he is supposed to be a friend. But I don't like
that type of personality. He absolutely could not stand him.
You know, some people do charity, and they expect for you to kiss their
hands for it. And some people do charity, and they are very glad to
do it and forget about it, don't expect anything. This is the kind of
charity I believe in. Bouhe likes to help, and then he keeps those
people like slaves, he is a little king, and they do anything for him
after that. But Oswald didn't.
And that is why there was tremendous antagonism there. Bouhe asked
Marina never to come to his house at all, because he was afraid that
Oswald will follow her and will cause him a scandal, or God knows what.
He was that kind of person. I think that was the main thing, that
Oswald was rude to people helping him.
Mr. JENNER. Did Oswald ever talk about his political views in your
presence?
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. In which way? Overall political, or any
particular incidents?
Mr. JENNER. Politics with a capital P. His views on government.
Mrs. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I think definitely he was a Marxist, ideologist
Marxist. I don't think he was a Communist from the way I would
understand a Communist. We didn't know if he did or he didn't belong to
any party at all. I don't think he even belonged to a party in Russia,
because that was--oh, this is very important.
His objection--the things that he didn't like in Russia was those
horrible meetings, constant meetings, party meetings. He said that
you have to work, and you have to go to those meetings--they drive
people crazy, those party meetings, worker meetings. They have to
go and listen to speeches and bla, bla, bla. So I don't think he
was--according to that, I don't think he was interested in a party, or
belonging to anything.
It was a complete surprise to us when we learned after all this that he
was actually involved in doing something for Castro, selling leaflets
or something, in New Orleans.
Mr. JENNER. Passing them out?