Mr. JENNER. Did he ever express any views to you or give you the
impression that he thought these people who had left Russia were fools
for having left Russia?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No; I don't think so. I don't remember that.
Possibly he told somebody else. But not in my presence.
Mr. JENNER. Did he express any view to you or did you get the
impression that these people in this colony or group, they only liked
money, and everything was measured by money?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, naturally--he didn't tell that to me, but
you can guess that that would be his opinion, because he was jealous of
them. I tried to induce him a few times to get on to some money-making
scheme. I said, "Why don't you do something to make money?"
But, obviously, it wasn't interesting to him.
Would you like me to say what I told you about this Solidarist?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. You were interested--you asked me if I belonged
to some political party, and I said no. This group of Russian refugees
called themselves solidarists. And Mr. and Mrs. Voshinin in Dallas
belonged to that group and tried to make me join it. Not being
interested, I refused, but I read some of their publications. And it is
a pro-American group of Russian refugees who have an economic doctrine
of their own. And they seem to have some people working in the Soviet
Union for them, and all that sort of thing.
It is a pretty well-known political party that--their headquarters is
in Germany.
That is about all I know about them.
Mr. JENNER. But that group didn't interest you?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No, no; nor any other group.
Mr. JENNER. I notice in the papers at my disposal some participation on
your part in a foreign council discussion group in Dallas.
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; I belonged to that group--I don't remember
during what period--and came quite often to the meetings.
Mr. JENNER. What is the name of it?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. The Dallas Council of World Affairs. I met quite
a few people at the meetings. But they were open, public meetings,
where international affairs were discussed. I remember several of the
Dallas real conservatives called that Dallas council very leftist. But
I never noticed anything in particular.
Mr. JENNER. Were there people of substance that participated in that
group?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; very much so. Mr. Marcus was the president
of it. Mr. McGee was the president of it.
Mr. Mallon was president of that, and actually organized this group.
Mr. Mallon is chairman of the board of Dresser Industries. But they
invited some people to Dallas who are possibly socialists--I don't
remember seeing anyone, but I guess they might have invited them.
Mr. JENNER. Did you on any occasion to express a view or say to anybody
in Dallas among your friends that Oswald was an idealistic Marxist?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; I might have said that.
Mr. JENNER. What did you mean by that?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That he had read and created some sort of a
theory, a Marxist theory, for himself.
In other words, he created a doctrine for himself, a Marxist doctrine.
Mr. JENNER. Is that what you meant by use of the word "Idealist"?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; that it was an idea in his head that he
had--not in a very flattering way I meant that. That he was building up
a doctrine in his head.
Mr. JENNER. Did you ever say anything to anybody on the subject that
Oswald was opposed to the United States policy on Castro in Cuba?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That I think he mentioned to me a couple of times.
Mr. JENNER. What did he say?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I do not remember the exact wording, but he said
that he had admiration for Castro for opposing such a big power as the
United States.
Mr. JENNER. Did the Voshinins ever ask you not to bring the Oswalds
around to their house?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. They refused to see and to meet the Oswalds,
either one of them. And I was quite surprised, frankly, why they
didn't, because we all did and at first helped them--and they usually
were very cooperative in helping the other people. In this particular
case, they completely refused and looked sort of mysterious--why they
didn't want to meet them.
I never asked any questions. But that is their privilege, not to see
them.
Mr. JENNER. Do you remember the days you were in Abilene?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Do you recall having discussed politics there, in which you
indicated, whether in provocation or otherwise, some admiration for the
Soviet system of government?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No; I don't remember saying anything like
that. It might have been misinterpreted. But I believe in peaceful
coexistence. I think we can all live together without blowing each
other to hell--and many other people believe that we couldn't do that.
Probably the person with whom I was discussing it believed in immediate
atomic retaliation. So, naturally, I told him what the hell.
Mr. JENNER. Do you recall having said that if this country is ever
invaded by Russia, you would have a very good chance of coming into a
top position with the Russians if they invaded the United States?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I never said that. That is a purely Texas
invention. It must have been a real enemy of mine who said that.
Mr. JENNER. You are intellectually opposed to the Communist system?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; I am. I am not interested in it--period.
Mr. JENNER. You wrote--I don't know whether it was after your 8 or 9
months in Mexico, when you were enamoured of Lilia Larin, or whether
it was on this previous occasion--when you were at the University
of Texas, had you written or were you writing a manuscript entitled
"Experiences of a Young Man in Mexico"?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes, yes; but that is more or less a romantic
dissertation, a romantic book based on some of my experiences there.
Mr. JENNER. Did you relate some of your romantic experiences?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, is it absolutely necessary? I don't recall
even what I had written there.
Mr. JENNER. I just wanted the general nature of it.
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I don't recall what it is. It is probably based
on the travel in Mexico with some girls--that is about all. That is
what I would write at that time and that age.
Mr. JENNER. You were interested in girls?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes, at that time.
Mr. JENNER. Did you ever have any people refer to you as the Mad
Russian?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That is an unfortunate term they call me quite
often.
Mr. JENNER. You mentioned somebody from Brazil that had the sobriquet
of King of Bananas. Was that the King of Orchids rather than the King
of Bananas?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, maybe. But we called him the King of
Bananas. At least I called him that.
I remember his name now--I mentioned it to you. Dr. Decio de Paulo
Machado. I still--I think he is still in existence, because I asked
about him recently.
Mr. JENNER. If I said you were an extrovert, would that agree with your
own judgment of yourself?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, I don't know if it is for others to call
me. I would rather be an extrovert than an introvert.
Mr. JENNER. Well, for example, I regard myself as an extrovert.
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Then I am happy to be an extrovert. I don't like
to be accused of being too much of an extrovert, because I think if you
pass the limit it is too much.
Mr. JENNER. Of course. Any extreme is bad. I made a reference yesterday
to Professor Zitkoff, in Houston. I thought that might stimulate your
recollection. Did you make regular trips to Houston?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; quite often.
Mr. JENNER. Were they substantially regular--once a month?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No, no. Without regularity, but quite
often--mainly to see my clients there.
Mr. JENNER. And your clients were who?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. In the oil business--I mainly used to come to
see my friend John Jacobs, vice president of Texas Eastern, and the
social acquaintances that I had there--Andy Todd, an architect there,
a professor at Rice Institute. And maybe somebody else--I don't recall
the name.
Mr. JENNER. But these trips to Houston were strictly business?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. Maybe I was trying at the time to push
forward my project in Haiti, you see, whereby I was trying to raise
some money for the development of small industries in Haiti. And on
that occasion I saw quite a few important people. But purely for that
purpose--purely for business.
Mr. JENNER. All right. Is your daughter, Alexandra, a painter or an
artist?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No; my wife's daughter is a painter.
Mr. JENNER. Christiana?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Was there a time when both Christiana and your daughter
were living in Dallas with you?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes, indeed.
Mr. JENNER. In your 1957 venture with the International Cooperation--as
an agent of the International Cooperation Administration, in addition
to Poland, as I understand it, you visited France?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Switzerland?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No. Sweden and Denmark.
Mr. JENNER. France, Sweden and Denmark?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Had you in mind, or did you hope during that period, that
you would also visit Switzerland, England, Italy, and West Germany?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; but I didn't see those countries--I didn't
have time to see them. Instead of that, I stayed much longer in Sweden,
visiting some distant relatives there.
Mr. JENNER. Did you have any political discussions with any so-called
true Communists when you were in Yugoslavia?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Political discussions?
Mr. JENNER. Arguments?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Arguments; yes. Discussions, occasionally. The
real argument I had--I think maybe I mentioned it yesterday--was with
the head of the Communist Party in Slovenia, who attacked me very
strongly for being an American and for the fact that we had this
Arkansas case, with Governor Faubus. He was very obnoxious, and I
told him that he reminded me of an ultraconservative in the United
States--they were both of the same type, very illogical and very biased
in their opinions.
Mr. JENNER. Biased and rigid?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; but I think in my stay in Yugoslavia, and
without taking too much pride in it, I made more friends for the United
States than anybody else, because they could--I could explain to them
the opportunities given to foreign born in the United States, and how
joyful the life is in the States. For instance, I used to explain to
them how an independent can drill an oil well with no money. To them
it was beyond comprehension. To them it was a miracle that a man like
me was able to promote enough money to drill an oil well. For them,
it needed endless bureaucracy and enormous amount of papers and all
that, and finally the well was drilled, and at an enormous price--when
it could have been done very cheaply by purely organizing a small
syndicate. And since I had small production of my own, I explained to
them how I did that. And it was a fascinating story for them. So I
think I did a good job and made a lot of friends, who used to write to
me from there.
Mr. JENNER. Did you make a trip to Europe in 1960? At that time,
did you plan to leave early in March, March 11, and visit France,
Yugoslavia, Italy, England, and Belgium, for a period of 3 weeks, on
geological visits?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. There might have been some projects to do that,
and it did not materialize.
Mr. JENNER. Maybe this will stimulate you. You, at that time, were at
the Statler Hilton Hotel in Washington, D.C.?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. In 1960?
Mr. JENNER. March 10, as a matter of fact. Do you remember your
passport being renewed on March 11?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Did I go to Europe or not? I don't remember.
Maybe I went to Ghana at that time, in 1960 instead of going to
Belgium--I went on this consulting job to Ghana.
I don't recall. My wife will recall all that precisely, because she
remembers the dates.
I did go to Europe in 1960, because I remember I went to see my little
boy in Philadelphia at that time before going to Europe. I was planning
to. But my wife will remember all that.
Mr. JENNER. So we can identify you as far as these papers are
concerned, is this a fair description of you? That you are a white
male, 6'1" tall, brown hair--dark brown hair, blue eyes--do you have a
scar on your face?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. This scar is an old scar on the right-hand side,
I think you can see.
Mr. JENNER. Right-hand cheek?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. On the cheek--it comes from a dog bite in my
childhood. And this one is a new one--I got it in Yugoslavia.
Mr. JENNER. That is about the center of your forehead, up top, near
your hairline?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. You suffered that in Yugoslavia?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; I fell down on a rock with my head--had a
few stitches taken.