Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That was my idea.
Mr. JENNER. That if he had an objective that he could have had, it
would be to stay in the Marines and become a marine officer, and have a
career in the Marines.
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That is right. Well, instead of that he disliked
it and switched to something else. I do not know the details of all his
jobs, you see, but I certainly can evaluate people just by looking at
them--because I have met so many people in my profession--you have to
evaluate them by just looking at them and saying a few words.
Mr. JENNER. Did you form an impression of him, Mr. De Mohrenschildt, as
to his reliability in a different sense now--that is, whether he was
reasonably mentally stable or given to violent surges of anger or lack
of control of himself?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Of course, he was that. The fact that we took
his wife away from him, you know, was the result of his outbursts and
his threats to his wife.
Mr. JENNER. What kind of threats?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, that he will beat the hell out of her. I
think Marina told me that he threatened to kill her. It comes back to
my mind, you see. You asked me yesterday a question, what actually
precipitated us taking Marina and the little child away from Oswald.
Mr. JENNER. You actually took Marina and the child away?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. So what actually precipitated that?
Something must have precipitated it. I cannot recall what it was. But
now I seem to vaguely remember that Marina said that he would kill her,
that he will beat her sometime so hard that he will kill her. So that
is the reason we went out there and said--well, let's save that poor
woman.
Mr. JENNER. Where were they living then?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. They were living then at the first address in Oak
Cliff--Ruth Street, I think. It is a two-story brick building.
Mr. JENNER. Mercedes?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Ruth Street. I do not remember Mercedes Street.
Mr. JENNER. Elsbeth?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Elsbeth--yes.
Mr. JENNER. He never lived on any street by the name of Ruth.
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No.
Mr. JENNER. Yesterday you adverted, I thought, to a concept that this
man seemed--he responded when you would bring him into a conversation
or situation.
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. That he was somewhat egocentric in that respect?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Very much so. And that is probably the reason
that he was clinging to me. He was clinging to me. He would call me. He
would try to be next to me--because, let's face it, I am a promotor and
a salesman. So I know how to talk with people. I usually do not offend
people's feelings. When I talk to people, I am interested in them. And
he appreciated that in me. The other people considered him, well, he is
just some poor, miserable guy, and disregarded him.
Mr. JENNER. Now, I would like to go into that a moment. It gradually
developed, did it, that the people in the Russian colony, their
curiosity--they had curiosity at the outset, and they had interest at
the outset.
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. They met him at your home and other homes?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. I take it you now suggest that after a while their interest
in him waned?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. It disappeared mainly; yes.
Mr. JENNER. And was it replaced by something else?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Dislike, mostly dislike, and fear.
Mr. JENNER. What was the fear?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Especially on the part of a scary individual,
like George Bouhe--he was actually physically afraid of him.
Mr. JENNER. George Bouhe was?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. George Bouhe. He was actually physically afraid
of him. He told me, "I am scared of this man. He is a lunatic." I said,
"Don't be scared of him. He is just as small as you are."
Mr. JENNER. Yes, but George Bouhe is a small man. You are a well-built,
athletic, six foot-one. What did you weigh then?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. 185 pounds. I was not afraid of him, naturally,
but George Bouhe was.
Mr. JENNER. And that is not your nature, anyhow, that is not your
personality as I observe you testifying.
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; he was that way, you know. Now, Max Clark
naturally was not afraid of him because Max Clark himself is an
athlete, an ex-colonel in the Air Force, I think. He just disliked him,
and he said to hell with that fellow, because Lee was rude to him.
Mr. JENNER. Who was rude?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Lee Oswald was rude to Max Clark and to his
wife. They invited him on some occasion--this I remember vaguely--they
invited him at some occasion to come to their house. And Lee said,
"Well, I will come if it is convenient to me." Imagine that--an answer
of that type.
Mr. JENNER. Now, the Clarks, certainly Mr. Clark--I do not know too
much about Mrs. Clark--but Mr. Clark is an educated man.
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Very educated man.
Mr. JENNER. And a man of attainment. He is an attorney, is he not?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Did it occur to you that here is a person who is relatively
uneducated, of limited capacity--I think this man had intelligence----
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Being invited to the home socially of a man of capacity?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. A lawyer, a leader in the community with a fine service
record. What was your reaction to that?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, Max invited him purely because his wife was
Russian and she would like to speak Russian once in a while.
Mr. JENNER. You think Lee resented that, do you--that the interest was
in Marina and not in Lee Oswald?
Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; definitely. Oh, that is an exceedingly
important point, you know. Lee resented the interest that people would
take in Marina. He wanted the interest concentrated on himself.
Mr. JENNER. And did he exhibit that in your home and at other
gatherings where you saw him? Did he interrupt so that the attention
might be drawn to him and away from her?