Mr. JENNER. And what did Mrs. Paine say?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Well, then, she asked--are they going to send her back
to the Soviet Union, and Mrs. Paine said, "I don't know," and then she
looked at me and I said, "I don't know either. If you are innocent,
then you will be innocent." I couldn't say one way or the other, and I
didn't want to go into conversation.
Mr. JENNER. Did you say to Marina that, "If you are innocent--then you
are innocent"--did you mean to imply by that that she would not be
deported in that event?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Right; and then I expressed hope that nothing would
happen to her.
Mr. JENNER. Now, have you now told us everything you can recall to the
best of your recollection that was said?
Mr. MAMANTOV. In relation to Marina or to both of them?
Mr. JENNER. First, in relation to Marina--during the course of that
3-hour meeting or session at the Dallas City Police Station.
Mr. MAMANTOV. I think I have told you everything I remember.
Mr. JENNER. In an effort to perhaps refresh your recollection, but
without suggestion that these things actually occurred, was anything
asked her about her relations with her husband, Lee Oswald, whether
they got along well, didn't get along well, whether they had any
problems in that connection?
Mr. MAMANTOV. I don't think it was brought up at that particular time.
Mr. JENNER. You have an especial command of the Russian language, you
teach Russian?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. And have taught Russian?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. You have heard Mrs. Paine speak Russian?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Would you please state for the record the extent of Mrs.
Paine's command of the Russian language?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Say for--I can give only comparison for American person
and for Russian person. I say for an American person--fair to good for
knowledge of the language, for command of language--very poor.
Mr. JENNER. Is that the only occasion when you interpreted or
translated for Marina?
Mr. MAMANTOV. In person? In her presence?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's the only occasion.
Mr. JENNER. Did you see Marina at any time after this incident, this
questioning?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Intentionally or unintentionally?
Mr. JENNER. Well, I think, either way.
Mr. MAMANTOV. Either way--yes, sir--I once on one Saturday, my
mother-in-law and I went to Sears to Ross Avenue store.
Mr. JENNER. Was this some time afterward?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Shortly afterward.
Mr. JENNER. How shortly--the next day?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Oh, no--the next day after Martin, I guess, came into the
picture.
Mr. JENNER. Did you have occasion to speak with her then?
Mr. MAMANTOV. My mother-in-law went into the main entrance and I opened
the door, and if I remember right, I was holding the door for somebody
else to pass by and mother-in-law got ahead. I closed the door and
started to walk off and catch up and I heard somebody calling, like
in my conscious, calling, "Mr. Mamantov," in Russian and in a very
little whisper, and I was walking a couple of steps further and I
heard it again, "Mr. Mamantov," again in Russian and I turned around
and here was a young lady, two children, and about three or four young
men around, so in my mind it occurred--this is Marina, but I was so
surprised and she didn't look like she looked at the police station.
Her hair became dark and I called out "Netasha," and she called me
in Russian and said, "No, this is Marina." So, I introduced myself
immediately to the gentlemen with her, saying I was translating for her
at the police station and my name is so and so.
In the meantime mother-in-law turned around and started to look for
me and I told her to pass by, don't look, and try to get away, and, I
said, "How are you doing?" She said, "Now is becoming quieter. I am
very tired."
That is the extent of our conversation, so we went into basement
of Sears store and when we finished our business, we were going
up again--excuse me--by myself. Mother-in-law was waiting for me
somewhere--I had to go and check on my credit, so after going into
the Sears' office, coming back on the escalator, here was the group
again, and I tried to be polite and let her and her escort get on the
escalator, and I stepped on and I told to one, who later I found out
was Martin, and I didn't know at that time who was Martin, and I told
him, I said, "If she needs help in translating the language, please
call on me." And so and so, and that's the time I saw her.
Mr. JENNER. Is that the last time you have seen her?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. Do you know a gentleman by the name of George De
Mohrenschildt?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. You do--when did you first meet him?
Mr. MAMANTOV. I don't remember exactly, but let me go back--are you
through with Mrs. Paine and Mrs. Oswald?
Mr. JENNER. I'm through with her only if you have told us everything
about this particular occasion.
Mr. MAMANTOV. One occasion they asked Mrs. Paine, and who was also
present and gave us testimony, they asked her if she knew if he had a
gun.
Mr. JENNER. If Mrs. Paine knew?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct--it's important to you to know this,
please?
Mr. JENNER. Yes; it is.
Mr. MAMANTOV. And she said, "No, she didn't." Why didn't she know that
Marina had her belongings in her garage, and she said, "Yes, I knew,"
and "How didn't you know that she had a gun," and she said, "Because I
didn't go through her belongings. I mean, it isn't my business to check
on what she had there." Now, they asked her also, knowing that she is
a--what is the religious denomination in Pennsylvania?
Mr. JENNER. Quaker.
Mr. MAMANTOV. Quaker. Would you allow her to have the gun, knowing that
you are Quaker? She said again, "It belongs to her, and it isn't for me
to say," and this is the extent I remember statements on Mrs. Paine's
part.
Mr. JENNER. She wasn't asked either about what had occurred the
previous evening; is that correct?
Mr. MAMANTOV. I don't remember.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mr. MAMANTOV. You told me to say only what I know--I know this.
Mr. JENNER. I want you to state only what you recall, sir.
Mr. MAMANTOV. I don't remember--this is overlapping two
occasions--whether that was that evening, if you will show me the
statement that was written, I will elaborate in details on it.
Mr. JENNER. Off the record.
(Discussion between Counsel Jenner and the witness, Mamantov, off the
record.)
Mr. JENNER. Back on the record. Are you acquainted with a man by the
name of George De Mohrenschildt?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. When did you first become acquainted with him?
Mr. MAMANTOV. If I remember right, in the early part of 1956.
Mr. JENNER. You were then a resident of Dallas?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. And will you describe George De Mohrenschildt as to his
physical characteristics first?
Mr. MAMANTOV. A tall, handsome man, well built, very talkative and loud
in society, likes to tell one company jokes--one sex jokes.
Mr. JENNER. He's a hail fellow, well-met type?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Right.
Mr. JENNER. Garrulous, talkative?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Very.
Mr. JENNER. Expansive type?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. What color is his hair?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Brunette with quite a few grey hairs at that time when I
met him, and appealed to ladies and used to take advantage of that.
Mr. JENNER. Sort of a ladies' man?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Sort of a ladies' man, and at that time was married,
twice for sure, and maybe more, and shortly after that had a--a divorce
was pending.
Mr. JENNER. Did you become acquainted with his then wife?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No, sir; I am acquainted of his girl friend of that
general area, who is now his wife.
Mr. JENNER. And what was her name?