Mr. MAMANTOV. That it was there on that particular morning; however,
she has seen in the past, well, she thought, if I remember right, that
Lee took with him the gun and she was also asked----
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me, she testified or she stated in your presence and
you translated it?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Right.
Mr. JENNER. That she was aware of the fact that the gun had been in the
blanket in the garage?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct, sometime in the past.
Mr. JENNER. Yes; did she say whether she had seen the gun in the
blanket in the garage prior to November 22?
Mr. MAMANTOV. If I remember right--yes.
Mr. JENNER. Did she describe what she had seen in the blanket when she
had discovered it prior to November 22?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. Tell us what she said in that regard.
Mr. MAMANTOV. She saw the stock of the gun, which was dark
brown--black, she said.
Mr. JENNER. These were responses of hers before the weapon was brought
in the room?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. I want to stick to that period, before the weapon was
actually brought into the room, and state what she said.
Mr. MAMANTOV. They asked her also at that time when did he purchase the
gun and such as where. If I remember right, she said she didn't know,
she stated also that he had had a gun in the Soviet Union. They asked
her a question if it was a dark brown or black gun. She said, "Yes, it
was the same color," and she said, "to me all guns are the same color,"
and then she was asked if she would recognize a gun if shown to her,
and at that time the gun was brought in.
Mr. JENNER. Let's not go to that subject at the moment. I want to go
back.
Mr. MAMANTOV. All right.
Mr. JENNER. What did she say, if anything, as to what she saw or
discovered when she went into the garage that morning, the morning of
November 22, to examine the blanket?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No; here, I cannot state exactly if it was morning, noon
or time police arrived, when she saw the blanket without the gun, and
this--I don't remember--here is my time lapse--whenever she saw it.
Mr. JENNER. But whenever she responded, whenever she saw it that day,
what did she say as to what the package contained, if anything?
Mr. MAMANTOV. The blanket was, I'll put it this way, different position
as she has seen in the past.
Mr. JENNER. You mean in a different position, in a different place in
the garage?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No; it was supposedly in the same place, but there wasn't
anything in it.
Mr. JENNER. You mean it was in a different shape or form or condition?
Mr. MAMANTOV. I'll put it this way--condition.
Mr. JENNER. Did she say what the different condition was?
Mr. MAMANTOV. I don't remember, but that attracted her attention. This
I remember very well. She stated it attracted her attention--as she had
seen before, so much I remember.
Mr. JENNER. Her attention was arrested by the fact that the condition,
shape, form or configuration of the blanket package was different from
what she had noticed it to have been in on prior occasions when she had
seen it?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Evidently--if somebody, for instance, if you see a
package in one shape and at different times, you see different shape.
Mr. JENNER. Did she describe the shape and form and condition of the
package as she saw it prior to this particular occasion on November 22,
what it looked like earlier, and then contrasting that with what it
looked like on the occasion of November 22 when she saw it again?
Mr. MAMANTOV. If I remember right, going back, she had seen the package
of elongated form and for some reason she opened it and saw a gun, and
knowing it was Lee's, at least a gun, and he didn't want her to touch
his things, he was very particular, and after she opened a corner, she
left it in same shape she had found it.
Mr. JENNER. Did she say whether she had pulled the gun entirely out of
the package?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No. No.
Mr. JENNER. Just the butt end?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Just the stock end and she covered immediately and back
so as a result, she--she didn't pull out all--she didn't open the
package.
Mr. JENNER. Did they question her as to where the package was in the
garage, precisely, on the two occasions, that is, when she had seen it
before November 22 and the position it was located in in the garage
when she saw it on November 22?
Mr. MAMANTOV. The question was asked and she answered, it was with her
belongings which she couldn't bring into Mrs. Paine's home, and if I
remember right, she said it was in one corner of the garage, and that
particular day the blanket was in the same area, but was in a different
shape or in a different condition. What it was, I don't know. It was in
the garage in one of the corners.
Mr. JENNER. What did she say as to the difference and the content?
Mr. MAMANTOV. She said when she saw the blanket it didn't contain the
gun.
Mr. JENNER. It did not contain the gun?
Mr. MAMANTOV. It did not contain the gun.
Mr. JENNER. Did she say anything about whether the blanket's form or
condition was, for purposes of illustration not for the purpose of
placing words in your mouth, that the blanket was absolutely flat when
she saw it on the 22d, whereas, prior thereto it appeared to contain
what she discovered was a rifle?
Mr. MAMANTOV. I don't remember.
Mr. JENNER. Did she say anything about whether the package, the blanket
package, was wrapped in any fashion, with string or any other wrapping
of that character?
Mr. MAMANTOV. I don't remember.
Mr. JENNER. Was that subject brought up?
Mr. MAMANTOV. I don't remember.
Mr. JENNER. At any time during the questioning was the blanket package
brought into the room?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Was anything said when she was asked about her entry into
the garage and her examination of the package as to whether anybody was
with her when she did that?
Mr. MAMANTOV. I think--was police and Mrs. Paine.
Mr. JENNER. At the time that she examined the blanket?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Once for sure--I don't know what happened before that.
Mr. JENNER. Was she asked whether she had examined the blanket that day
at any time prior to her examination of the blanket in the presence of
Mrs. Paine and the police?
Mr. MAMANTOV. I don't remember.
Mr. JENNER. But you do recall that she did testify or relate as to
the incident you now have in mind that Mrs. Paine was present and the
police were present?
Mr. MAMANTOV. On one occasion; yes.
Mr. JENNER. And is that the only occasion she was examined about, that
is, her having entered the garage once and then only in the presence of
the police?
Mr. MAMANTOV. This, I don't know for sure.
Mr. JENNER. It might have been that she testified to having gone to the
garage on two occasions that day.
Mr. MAMANTOV. Sir, I don't remember for sure. I rather wouldn't like,
as you say, to interpret--I would be very happy to relate everything I
know. If you don't remember, you don't.
Mr. JENNER. May I emphasize over and over again, Mr. Mamantov, that you
don't tell or say anything other than that which you recall in your
mind took place around 6 o'clock on the 22d.
Mr. MAMANTOV. Well, I don't remember.
Mr. JENNER. So, let me impel you from any thought I have a desire for
you to testify one way or the other.
Mr. MAMANTOV. Right.
Mr. JENNER. Because I don't--all I want you to do is to tell, as best
you can, your recollection of what took place.
Mr. MAMANTOV. No; I don't remember if she stated this or she didn't.
Mr. JENNER. I do want to ask you this--you don't want to exclude
by this testimony the possibility that she did, that is, that she
testified or might have said at that time that she had entered the
garage on an earlier occasion sometime during the day, that is, prior
to the time the police arrived.
Mr. MAMANTOV. No; I don't want to exclude it.
Mr. JENNER. You just don't have enough recollection at the moment to
testify one way or the other on that?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. Now, I noticed that you did say that Marina related the
fact that she had seen the rifle in a disassembled condition?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No; I didn't say so. I said, "Elongated package--she saw
an elongated package," but I don't recall the size of the package, the
size of the package she testified it was.
Mr. JENNER. I think you did testify earlier that Marina remarked that
she had seen the gun in sections?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Today?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No, sir; you can read it back--I haven't.
Mr. JENNER. Off the record.
(Discussion between Counsel Jenner and the Witness Mamantov off the
record.)
Mr. MAMANTOV. No, sir; you asked me the shape of the package she saw,
and I related to you an elongated package and she opened one corner and
she saw the stock of the gun so much--that I said--there--so much--you
asked me.
Mr. JENNER. It's important, Miss Oliver, let's go back just so we will
be certain of it and see if we can find it.
(At this point at the request of Counsel Jenner the reporter referred
to previous testimony of the Witness Mamantov and reread the following:
("No, put it this way. I remember conversations somewhere along the
line that he didn't return to her room. I remember also when she got up
she was wondering that he didn't eat breakfast, apparently coffee was
poured or prepared either by him or by her, which, I don't remember,
and he didn't eat breakfast and this was after he left, we'll say, a
few minutes.")
Mr. JENNER. When the question was put to her as to why she went to the
garage to examine the package and what motivated her in that direction,
what did she say?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That, I don't remember. That is again coming to the
point--I don't remember what time she saw--either she saw by herself or
she saw during the time when police arrived.
Mr. JENNER. But, in either event, whether she went there on her own
prior to the time the police arrived and then again, if that's the way
it was, when the police did arrive, what did she say when, as you have
testified, she was asked why she went to the garage to examine the
package, if she said anything?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Yes. When police arrived they asked her specific
questions about particular blanket.
Mr. JENNER. What questions?
Mr. MAMANTOV. If the blanket was in the shape she saw today in relation
to the shape she saw last time. She said, "No, it has different shape."
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Mamantov, did the police ask her right off the bat
whether the package in the garage, the blanket package in the garage,
had a different configuration, or did they first question her, for
example, as to whether her husband owned a gun and whether she was
aware of the fact that he did own a gun and whether she was aware of
the fact the gun was in or about the premises of the Paine's--what was
the sequence, as you recall?
Mr. MAMANTOV. She was asked if she knew that the gun was at the
premises of Mrs. Paine.
Mr. JENNER. The questioning, then, assumed that there was a gun, is
that correct?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct. She was asked whether this gun--when at
the Paines, whether she knew where the gun used to be, and then she
said she hadn't seen gun since the gun--she saw last time--and this
particular day when gun wasn't there. No; she never stated, and I don't
think she was asked if she knew that the gun was there that particular
morning. That, I don't know, but she was asked if she knew that the gun
was with her belongings.
Mr. JENNER. Prior to November 22?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Prior to November 22--that's correct.
Mr. JENNER. And her response was in the affirmative?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. And your distinct recollection is that the blanket was not
brought into the room at any time while you were there to exhibit to
her?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Only physical item was gun.
Mr. JENNER. Your recollection is that it is true that the blanket was
not brought into the room?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct, the only physical item was brought in,
was the gun itself, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And was the gun when brought in fully assembled?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. Did it have the telescopic sight on it?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And did it have a sling, a leather sling, do you know what
I mean by a sling?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Yes; I know what you mean, but I don't remember right
now. I think it did, but I wouldn't be for sure--I wouldn't be sure of
the statement.
Now, I don't know if it is important to you or not, she also stated
when she was questioned before--where he purchased the gun, and if it
was a gun which he had in the Soviet Union.
Mr. JENNER. And what was her response?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Her response was that it is possible that this is the gun
which he had in the Soviet Union. She cannot say one way or the other
if this is a different gun or which he had before. Now, no person had a
gun in the Soviet Union--I can say so much for sure and that's where I
didn't like this.
Mr. JENNER. No; you just interjected your own observation, that is, no
person had a gun in the Soviet Union--that was an observation on your
part, not what she said.
Mr. MAMANTOV. No, no; that's my observation, but maybe not to be--not
to put it into the record, but I think it is very important when she
went back--when she said that the gun was brought in from the Soviet
Union.
Mr. JENNER. Might have been?
Mr. MAMANTOV. It might have been--so, she didn't know. The question
was asked when did he purchase, when and where he purchased it and she
said, "I don't know. He had always guns. He always played with guns
even in the Soviet Union. He had the gun and I don't know which gun was
this." And she was asked a question if she would recognize the gun--she
was asked the color of the gun, if this was the same gun or resembled
the gun which he had in the Soviet Union. She said, to her all guns are
dark and black and that's all--so much she said about it.
Mr. JENNER. Before we get to the gun itself, I would like to ask you
some more questions.
Mr. MAMANTOV. Before we get to the gun itself--all right.
Mr. JENNER. I take it from your answers that she either said or implied
that when they were in Fort Worth, when they were in New Orleans, that
he had the gun that she had in mind?
Mr. MAMANTOV. This particular gun?
Mr. JENNER. Whatever gun she had in mind.
Mr. MAMANTOV. She made statement this way: She said he always had guns,
he always was interested in guns--this statement she made.
Mr. JENNER. And he always had a weapon?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct, he always had a weapon.
Mr. JENNER. Did she say anything about a pistol as distinguished from a
rifle?
Mr. MAMANTOV. I don't remember the question and I don't remember a
reply.
Mr. JENNER. Now, when she was asked whether she examined the package on
that day, was she then asked to state what she did in the examination
of the package and what she found--would you state as chronologically
as you can? Did she say, and this is a hypothetic, now, on my part--"I
went into the garage, I looked for the blanket package, I saw the
blanket package, I walked over to the blanket package, I stepped on it,
or I lifted it up, or I opened it up"--was she questioned that closely?
Mr. MAMANTOV. I don't remember, questions like you stated.
Mr. JENNER. Was she questioned about whether she looked for or whether
there was any other weapon different from or in addition to the weapon
in the blanket package?
Mr. MAMANTOV. I don't remember the question--neither question.
Mr. JENNER. Is it fair to say that your best recollection is that she
was not examined on that subject?
Mr. MAMANTOV. I would say so--yes.
Mr. JENNER. At any time during this questioning was she asked whether
she had seen her husband handle the weapon, that is, that the weapon
she saw with him in his possession--unwrapped?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No, I don't remember, I don't think the question was
asked.
Mr. JENNER. Was she asked whether she knew of her knowledge or
information with respect to her husband's use of a rifle--whether it
was a rifle, a pistol, or otherwise?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Yes; she stated that he liked to hunt.
Mr. JENNER. Well, was she asked whether he hunted in Russia when he was
in Russia?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Oh, yes. She made statement that he also was hunting in
Russia and supposedly was hunting here.
Mr. JENNER. She did say that her impression was that he hunted here in
the United States?
Mr. MAMANTOV. I'll put it this way--she said he was using his guns for
hunting. She didn't say specifically which, but she said that he used
to hunt in Russia but she didn't say specifically he hunted here.
Mr. JENNER. She did not say that he hunted in the United States?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No.
Mr. JENNER. From the evidence, they came over to this country in June
1962.
Mr. MAMANTOV. No--the question was asked if he hunted here or not and
reply to why did he have the gun--because she said he had hunted in
Russia, he always liked guns, he always played with the gun.
Mr. JENNER. Was she questioned at all on the subject whether he had
hunted with this rifle or any other gun in the United States?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Not in my presence.
Mr. JENNER. Was she questioned on the subject of whether she had seen
him or was aware of the fact, if it be the fact, that he occasionally
or on one or more occasions had the gun, say, out in the yard of their
home in New Orleans or out in the yard or courtyard in Fort Worth,
sighting it and pulling the trigger--dry sighting; do you know what dry
sighting is?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Right--no, she wasn't asked.
Mr. JENNER. Was she asked in your presence whether there was an
incident in which there was an attempt on the life of General Walker?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Nothing about that at all?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Nothing about that.
Mr. JENNER. In other words, at the risk of boring you and the reporter,
she was not questioned on this information when you were doing the
translating or interpreting about any use of the rifle by him, dry
sighting, hunting, or otherwise in the United States?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No, not specifically, but this rifle--I'll put it this
way--about her seeing him with a weapon.
Mr. JENNER. Any weapon?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Any weapon.
Mr. JENNER. All right, now, have you told us everything you can recall
about the questions and answers and interplay up to the time the rifle
was brought into the room? Is there anything else--don't be concerned
about whether you think it is relative or not, anything that she said
on this occasion is relevant to us.
Mr. MAMANTOV. I understand and I am trying to recollect. No, I
remember--I think I said everything I could remember.
Mr. JENNER. You have now exhausted your recollection as to everything
that was said at least in substance, and to the extent of the recall of
each of the particulars up to this moment, that is to the moment when
the gun was brought into the room?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. By the way, was there a court reporter present?
Mr. MAMANTOV. If I remember right, the detective took down.
Mr. JENNER. Made notes?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Made some notes, and which were read to her.
Mr. JENNER. Eventually--that is, at the conclusion of the examination
he summarized his notes in her presence?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No, he read word by word, I translated back. He didn't
write in shorthand, but he wrote it, I remember very well--Mrs.
Paine tried to correct his English and, of course, minor mistakes. I
probably wouldn't write the same way--you don't expect every policeman
to write the same English, and which the question was whether "I" or
"me"--that's the mistake it was.
Mr. JENNER. Now, when that summary was given by the officer in the
presence of Marina, did she affirm that it was at least in substance
correct?
Mr. MAMANTOV. She signed it.
Mr. JENNER. Did you seek to correct anything in the statement read to
Marina by the officer, that is, did you call attention to anything you
thought had been left out or anything that had not been fairly stated?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No, they read back to her, I translated back into Russian
and she agreed. Only, there was Mrs. Paine--Mrs. Paine made a remark
about the grammar.
Mr. JENNER. Now, I think--let's go ahead--the weapon is brought in.
Mr. MAMANTOV. All right.
Mr. JENNER. It is fully assembled?
Mr. MAMANTOV. It is fully assembled.
Mr. JENNER. It has a telescopic sight on it and the leather sling?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Captain Fritz brought it in and was holding it in his
two hands, with two or three fingers, not to touch gun around--in that
position (indicating).
Mr. JENNER. Holding it up--holding it like that (indicating)?
Mr. MAMANTOV. More or less--you see--inclined in that position.
Mr. JENNER. Holding it up horizontally or close to the horizontal?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct, and it was brought close enough to her to
examine. She was specifically asked if this was the gun she had seen in
the past in that blanket. She said, "I don't know. All guns to me are
the same, are a dark brown or black."
He asked her again--"This," which was to me very dark or black colored.
He said, "Is this what you see?" She said, "No, I don't know. I saw the
gun--I saw a gun;" she said again, "All guns are the same to me." Then
they asked her about a sight on the gun.
Mr. JENNER. S-i-g-h-t [spelling]?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Yes; a telescope--she said, "No; I never have seen gun
like that in his possession," and she referred back again to the Soviet
Union.
Mr. JENNER. What did she say to you--is this a conclusion on your part
that she referred back to the Soviet Union?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No--no--she said this way.
Mr. JENNER. It isn't a conclusion, if you put the words in her mouth,
so you can go ahead.
Mr. MAMANTOV. No, she said the gun which he had in the Soviet Union,
she didn't know how to say--she said, "This thing."
Mr. JENNER. The telescopic sight?
Mr. MAMANTOV. The telescopic sight--she pointed to it with her finger.
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me, did she say that the rifle or weapon, whatever
it was he had in the Soviet Union--her recollection was it did not have
a telescopic sight on it?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct. She was asked if she had seen this part
of the gun which he had in the garage in the blanket--this she said
again--she said, "No; I have only seen one part of the gun, which was
the end of the gun"--which part they asked her--I think I am calling
it----
Mr. JENNER. The stock?
Mr. MAMANTOV. She pointed to the stock--correct--and then she was asked
about the gun again and she said, "Dark brown-black."
Mr. JENNER. Still referring to the stock?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Still referring to the stock, and then they asked her
for a couple more questions, if she saw this particular gun in his
possession. She insisted that to her all guns are the same and she
couldn't distinguish this gun from any other gun that he had in the
past.
Mr. JENNER. In other words, it is your recollection that they
questioned her very closely in an effort to elicit from her, if it
weren't a fact that the weapon they were showing her was the weapon she
had seen, and her responses consistently were--they were, no matter how
close or vigorous the examination, that all guns are alike to her, that
the only thing she ever saw was the stock of the gun in the blanket?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. And her recollection was it was dark brown, and that's all
she thought, to fairly summarize?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct. They asked her again, "Is this the color
you saw?" She said "Yes--yes, it reminds me of the same color." They
particularly questioned her fairly close, if this was the same gun
which belonged to him and she only insisted she saw the stock of the
gun and hasn't seen the whole gun.
Mr. JENNER. All right, go ahead.
Mr. MAMANTOV. And they asked her, I think they came back again and
asked her if she has seen him carrying something.
Mr. JENNER. Carrying something?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Carrying something, and she said, "No," she didn't see
him leaving, so she didn't know if he was carrying something.
Mr. JENNER. You mean they came back and asked her whether, when he left
that morning he was carrying anything?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. And her response was?
Mr. MAMANTOV. She didn't see him leaving or walking out of the house,
or whatever he was taking--means of transportation.
Mr. JENNER. She didn't see him leave, so she doesn't know whether he
had anything with him or not, is that a fair statement?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. Is that a fair statement of her statements?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's exactly right.
Mr. JENNER. Did they question her as to the details of his coming to
Irving, Tex., the night before, and what did he bring with him, if
anything, and what did he say as to why he was returning on Thursday
night, whereas, he usually came on weekends, as on a Friday, did they
go through that previous evening with her in detail and from point
to point so that they could exhaust the movements of Lee Oswald that
previous evening?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No; if I remember right, they didn't question her to the
extent of his arrival--well, I don't remember.
Mr. JENNER. They concentrated on his presence the following morning and
what occurred from the time she awakened until the time he left?
Mr. MAMANTOV. To me as a layman, the whole talk was around him having
the gun, and "this is the gun he used."
Mr. JENNER. Your best recollection, you recall, is that there was no
questioning of her with respect to movements of this man the previous
evening?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No, sir; I don't remember.
Mr. JENNER. Oh, any questions as to why he came home on Thursday rather
than on Friday as usual?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No, sir; I don't remember.
Mr. JENNER. Did they go into any questions with respect to the
acquaintances of the Oswalds with people here in Dallas or in Irving or
in Fort Worth or in New Orleans?
Mr. MAMANTOV. At that particular time?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mr. MAMANTOV. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Over what period of time did this examination take place?
What was its duration?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Roughly, I would say about 2-1/2 to 3 hours. You
see, Mrs. Paine also testified, she was present so they took two
statements--from both of them.
Mr. JENNER. They took Mrs. Paine's and then they took Marina's?
Mr. MAMANTOV. First Marina's and then Mrs. Paine's.
Mr. JENNER. Was Mrs. Paine's statement taken in Marina's presence?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And Marina's statement was taken in Mrs. Paine's presence?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. Did you interpret from English into Russian the statements
made by Mrs. Paine that is, did you translate Mrs. Paine's statement,
as she made it and the questions put to Mrs. Paine, for the benefit of
Marina, so that she would understand the questions to Mrs. Paine and
Mrs. Paine's responses?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No, sir; the statement was not translated into Russian.
Mr. JENNER. And you can see why that is important to me, as to whether
Marina would take exception to anything Mrs. Paine said?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Right. Now, we were waiting about 2-1/2 or 3 hours
altogether for the typist to type that.
Mr. JENNER. It was the taking of the statement, the transcribing of the
statement, the reading of the statement to Marina and Mrs. Paine, and
then have the witnesses read the statements or listen to them and then
sign them.
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. All of this took about 3 hours?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. Did Mrs. Paine speak to Marina in Russian while you were
present?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Right, yes, she did. Mrs. Paine spoke in Russian to
Marina--yes, she did.
Mr. JENNER. Any statements made by Mrs. Paine in Russian to Marina,
were they pertinent to the subject matters about which you have
testified?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No; I don't think so. I don't remember--personal
conversation more or less about the child who was present.
Mr. JENNER. The conversations between Mrs. Paine and Marina in Russian,
were they conversations related to personal matters--the children?
Mr. MAMANTOV. The children; and only on one occasion I remember was to
her protection--Marina's protection.
Mr. JENNER. And what was that?