Mr. JENNER. 4:30?
Mr. MAMANTOV. 4:30.
Mr. JENNER. I'll get into that background in a little while, Mr.
Mamantov. You did go, then, to the Dallas City Police Station?
Mr. MAMANTOV. They sent a police car.
Mr. JENNER. To pick you up?
Mr. MAMANTOV. To pick me up--it was quite disturbing because there was
sirens and red lights and the neighborhood was quite disturbed.
Mr. JENNER. Where did you reside at that time?
Mr. MAMANTOV. 6911 East Mockingbird.
Mr. JENNER. East Mockingbird?
Mr. MAMANTOV. East Mockingbird Lane.
Mr. JENNER. That's correct. And you were escorted into the Dallas City
Police Station?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct and was introduced to Captain Fritz.
Mr. JENNER. Go right ahead.
Mr. MAMANTOV. He took me into a room filled up with the
detectives--before we entered that room, I had to pass through the
hallway filled up with the newspaper and TV and people.
Mr. JENNER. You just went through that?
Mr. MAMANTOV. I mean, I just went through with Captain Fritz there that
I saw.
Mr. JENNER. When you got into the room, now, whom did you see there?
Mr. MAMANTOV. When I got into the room I saw Marina, I saw Mrs. Paine,
whom I knew, who has been once in our house, and I have numerous
telephone conversations with her in regard to her learning Russian.
Mr. JENNER. Does Mrs. Gravitis live with you?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. When you say "our house," that's the house in which you,
your wife and Mrs. Gravitis reside?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct. She resides with us since 1943--we never
were separated.
Mr. JENNER. Is her first name Dorothy?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Dorothy, and I saw Mrs. Paine and I saw next to her a
young woman with a young baby whom I assumed to be Marina Oswald.
Mr. JENNER. Have you ever seen Marina Oswald in your life prior to that
moment? Knowingly?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No; sir.
Mr. JENNER. Had you ever met her prior to that time?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No, sir; I met her after that, accidentally.
Mr. JENNER. No; this is prior--up to that moment, you had had no
contact, no acquaintance whatsoever with her?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. Nor with Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No, sir; but Marina and my mother-in-law had telephone
conversations from my home, so I knew of her quite a bit through Mrs.
Paine and Mrs. Gravitis, but I never had seen her in person, but I
never had talked to her before, so from that room I was taken into
another small room, and after a while Mrs. Paine and Marina was brought
in and she also had a baby.
Mr. JENNER. And whom else, in addition to you, was in the room?
Mr. MAMANTOV. There was a young detective, I forgot his name. Then,
there was another tall detective who actually questioned Marina and for
whom I interpreted.
Mr. JENNER. Do you remember his name?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No, sir; but if I would see him I would place him.
Mr. JENNER. And those were the persons?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Well, there was another person, the agent of the FBI, who
was taking notes and sitting across at the desk.
Mr. JENNER. What is his name?
Mr. MAMANTOV. I don't remember.
Mr. JENNER. Is the name "Hosty" familiar to you?
Mr. MAMANTOV. It was "H", but I don't remember; but it was, either this
young fellow that was the detective was Hosty, or FBI, but it started
with "H".
Mr. JENNER. Well, it might be "H"--Hosty.
Mr. MAMANTOV. Right; and I talked to him after that a few minutes, he
will recognize me and I recognize him when we get together.
Mr. JENNER. You seem to be a man who has reasonably good powers of
recall; would you start now, and I will try not to interrupt you, and
relate as best you can recall, and as precisely as you can recall, at
least the substance and the exact words of the questioning and the
responses--the questioning of Marina and the responses she gave?
Mr. MAMANTOV. All right. Shall I go ahead?
Mr. JENNER. Yes; just do it the way it comes naturally to you.
Mr. MAMANTOV. All right. The problem is, I never tried to memorize this
because--I mean--this was pure translation.
Mr. JENNER. And you were probably a little excited then, too, weren't
you?
Mr. MAMANTOV. I was quite excited and I didn't feel like I should try
to memorize it, but she was questioned if she lived at Mrs. Paine's
residence in Irving----
Mr. JENNER. To which she responded?
Mr. MAMANTOV. She responded.
Mr. JENNER. What did she say? Did she respond in the affirmative, is
what I was getting at?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Oh, yes; she said she was living there.
Mr. JENNER. Do the best you can, and I'll try not to interrupt you, but
I'll have to, I'm sure, at times.
Mr. MAMANTOV. I don't remember the questions, but I would remember
approximately what she was asked.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mr. MAMANTOV. All right. She was asked if she lived with Mrs. Paine
around that particular day and if she was that morning in Mrs. Paine's
home. She answered positively then.
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me--I'm sure that positively is affirmative?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Affirmative.
Mr. JENNER. By the way, as long as we are now interrupted again, what
time was this--5:30 or 6 o'clock.
Mr. MAMANTOV. I would say it's 5:30, because going to the police
station I met my wife coming from work, which should be 5:30 or 6
o'clock, I would say. Then, she was asked if Oswald spent that night in
Mrs. Paine's home at that time, that night from 21 to 22 of November.
Mr. JENNER. The previous evening?
Mr. MAMANTOV. The previous evening and including the night.
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mr. MAMANTOV. She affirmed that. Then, how did he get up? She said he
had an alarm clock on and this was the way he got up and he went into
kitchen and supposedly had breakfast. They asked her also if usually
she prepared breakfast for him, and if I remember right, she said
usually she did, but this particular morning she didn't because she was
tired and she had to get up to take care of her baby in an hour or so,
so she didn't get up and he went into the kitchen and was supposed to
eat breakfast. Now----
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me. Was she questioned, or did she say anything
about whether, when he left the bedroom and went into the kitchen to
make his breakfast, whether he returned to her and said goodby to her?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No; as far as I remember he didn't return. I mean, I
don't think the question was asked to her. Or, it is in my mind that he
didn't return, relating the conversation to that particular time.
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me, Mr. Mamantov, may I say this--I don't want any
of my questions to induce you to make a response that you don't recall
definitely.
Mr. MAMANTOV. No; I understand.
Mr. JENNER. There are bits of information that we have of things we
would like to find out. Do you have a definite recollection that the
subject was even brought up at that time, that is, whether he returned
from the kitchen to the bedroom to say goodby to her before he left or
are you refreshing your memory, is what I am getting at? If you have no
recollection, I would prefer you say so.
Mr. MAMANTOV. No; I'll put it this way. I remember conversations
somewhere along the line that he did return to her room. I remember
also when she got up she was wondering that he didn't eat breakfast;
apparently coffee was poured or prepared either by him or by her,
which, I don't remember, and he didn't eat breakfast, and this was
after he left, we'll say, a few minutes.
Mr. JENNER. Don't let me interrupt you here before you finish your
answers--do I gather correctly that what you are saying is that she
stated there that night that she did go out to the kitchen?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That morning.
Mr. JENNER. That morning--that she did go out to the kitchen that
morning and she found that he had not prepared any breakfast?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No; I'll put it this way. She apparently slept a little
bit longer after he left, and when she got up and went into the kitchen
she found out he didn't eat breakfast, which was surprising to her.
From this I made my opinion that she usually prepared breakfast for him
and she ate.
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me, sir; when you testified a moment ago that
she said she usually prepared breakfast for him, were you then
rationalizing from the circumstance you have just stated, or do you
recall that she said that?
Mr. MAMANTOV. I understood--here's my problem--either I recall or I
recall future instances from translating her life history.
Mr. JENNER. It is important, Mr. Mamantov, for you to recall and to
exclude from your mind--it is very difficult I appreciate--and to
exclude from your mind what you have learned and to exclude from your
mind what you have learned afterwards; that is, after November 22d.
Mr. MAMANTOV. I realize that.
Mr. JENNER. What I am trying to get now is exactly to the best of your
powers of recall, what was said on that occasion by her without your
rationalizing from facts you recall as to what she might have said; do
you understand?
Mr. MAMANTOV. I understand. As far as I know, she said that he didn't
return backward--I mean--come back to her--she didn't get up at the
time he was leaving. After a while she got up.
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me; now, as a result of this further questioning
it is your present recollection that at the time you were doing the
translating you----
Mr. MAMANTOV. Right.
Mr. JENNER. At the city police station, that she said was that he left
the bedroom to make breakfast for himself, that he did not return to
the bedroom, and she, because of being up during the night to care for
the baby, she went back to rest or sleep and got up later on.
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. Did she say that she then went into the kitchen?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And did she say what she found when she reached the kitchen?
Mr. MAMANTOV. She found that the coffee wasn't--I mean, or, she thought
he didn't eat.
Mr. JENNER. He had not prepared breakfast, in fact?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mr. MAMANTOV. Then, I also remember her saying, but I don't remember
how the question was put to her, that she went into the garage to check
her belongings which were stored in the garage, Mrs. Paine's garage,
and she saw a grey blanket which appeared to her in a little bit
different position than she remember it before.
Mr. JENNER. Did she describe the configuration, shape--form of the
blanket?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's what I'm saying--I'll come to it. Then she was
asked what was in that blanket before, why did she pay attention
particularly to the blanket. She said he kept his gun in that blanket.
Now, she also said--she was asked if she would remember the gun, how it
looked, she said, "Probably--yes," she has seen not the whole gun but
she has seen part of the gun wrapped in that grey blanket and at this
moment the gun was brought in.
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me, she volunteered that when she got up and went to
the kitchen, noticed that Oswald had not prepared any breakfast----
Mr. MAMANTOV. Right.
Mr. JENNER. She then went to the garage; is that correct?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct, or she was led to that question, if she
had gone to the garage, and she said continuously that "I went." I
assume that she was led to that question when she stated that she went
to the garage.
Mr. JENNER. After she had inspected the kitchen?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. Did she say whether Mrs. Paine was up and about at that
time?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No; I don't remember.
Mr. JENNER. You don't remember anything about Mrs. Paine?
Mr. MAMANTOV. You see, Mrs. Paine also gave a statement later on after
Marina finished.
Mr. JENNER. Let's stick with Marina for the moment.
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct, otherwise I would be confused.
Mr. JENNER. Did she say why she went to the garage or was she asked,
and did she respond on that subject?
Mr. MAMANTOV. To the best of my memory, she was asked and led to that
question, if she had gone to the garage, if she had seen a blanket----
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me, sir; they could be asking her, in connection
with the questions, to see whether she went to the blanket later in the
day. Do you recall that the question--is it because of the questioning,
or she voluntarily stated----
Mr. MAMANTOV. No; because of the question.
Mr. JENNER. Because of the questioning, that after she was in the
kitchen that morning, at that time she then went into the garage for
the purpose of examining the blanket and its contents? Just relax and
think about it.
Mr. MAMANTOV. I'm afraid I wouldn't remember in such extent, if she
went immediately or she went later or she went during the time when
police was at Mrs. Paine's home, and I imagine those points are very
important to you, and I don't remember at the moment, I mean, to the
exact time.
Mr. JENNER. Yes; they are important--you see, your responses when you
first approached this subject, the implication was she looked at the
kitchen, and that she went immediately out into the garage.
Mr. MAMANTOV. No; I'm afraid I cannot state positively whether she went
during the day or whether she went immediately from the kitchen--I do
not know.
Mr. JENNER. You cannot state it?
Mr. MAMANTOV. I don't know.
Mr. JENNER. Does your recollection serve you that she went before
noontime?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No; I cannot state.
Mr. JENNER. Or that she went out to the garage at any time before the
police arrived, which was in midafternoon?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That, I don't remember. I do remember that she was asked
about blanket, if she has seen blanket, and she has seen blanket in a
very unusual, or she said in unusual shape as she said she has seen
before, about 2 weeks. I remember her mentioning about 2 weeks to the
questioning.
Mr. JENNER. Do you mean by that, sir, that the shape and form of the
blanket when she saw it that day was different from the shape and
configuration when she had seen the blanket prior thereto?
Mr. MAMANTOV. About 2 weeks--yes.