The testimony of Ilya A. Mamantov was taken at 10 a.m., on March 23,
1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building,
Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Messrs. Albert E. Jenner,
Jr., and Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant counsels of the President's
Commission.
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Mamantov, do you solemnly swear that the testimony you
are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Before I examine you, Mr. Mamantov, you are appearing
voluntarily at our request?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. You understand, do you, that you are entitled to counsel if
you wish counsel?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. But you don't wish counsel?
Mr. MAMANTOV. I don't wish it.
Mr. JENNER. And you are also entitled to purchase a copy of your
transcript of your testimony at whatever the usual rates the reporters
charge and you are also entitled to read over your testimony if you
wish, and to either inspect or sign it, or you may have the right to
waive the signing of your deposition.
Mr. MAMANTOV. It doesn't matter--what the proper procedure is--I would
like to read those--it's always possible, because the interpretation of
a single word that would change the meaning by someone is up to you. If
you want me to sign, I'll sign. If you don't, all right.
Mr. JENNER. That's your option--you may sign it or not, as you see fit.
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's my option--all right.
Mr. JENNER. Off the record.
(Discussion between Counsel Jenner and the Witness Mamantov off the
record.)
Mr. JENNER. On the record. If he wishes--it will be Thursday morning
probably--we would like to have it ready for you to read over, would
that be convenient for you?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. If you will come up to this office then, Thursday morning,
then one of the other of us will be here and a transcript of your
testimony will be available to you to peruse if you wish.
Mr. MAMANTOV. My name as you used my name was misspelled--I don't know
if you want that--it was misspelled on my letter sent me.
Mr. JENNER. When I examine you I will have you spell your name. Go
ahead and spell it for us now.
Mr. MAMANTOV. It's M-a-m-a-n-t-o-v [spelling], it is an "an" and not
"en" as you have it.
Mr. JENNER. All right, give your full name and spell it.
Mr. MAMANTOV. I'll give you my full name.
Mr. JENNER. And how do you pronounce that full name? I-l-y-e [phonetic
spelling], or I-l-a [phonetic spelling]?
Mr. MAMANTOV. I-l-y-a [spelling], A. M-a-m-a-n-t-o-v [spelling], and
the address has been changed in the meantime too--to 2444 Fairway
Circle, Richardson, Tex., Zip No. 75080, if it is important.
Mr. JENNER. Did you give your telephone number?
Mr. MAMANTOV. AD-5-28--2873, it's a new number.
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Mamantov, the Commission desires to inquire of you
because of your acquaintance with the De Mohrenschildts, and your work
with the Dallas City Police on November 22 and 23.
Mr. MAMANTOV. The 22d.
Mr. JENNER. The 22d only, and you translated for Marina Oswald in that
connection?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Right.
Mr. JENNER. Your acquaintance with the Russian emigre group in the
Dallas-Fort Worth area and especially your acquaintance with Marina to
the extent you had one. You have given your full name and your full
address. What is your business, profession, or occupation?
Mr. MAMANTOV. A research geologist with Sun Oil Co.
Mr. JENNER. And how long have you held that position?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Since 1955.
Mr. JENNER. And is that your profession--a geologist?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. And prior to 1952, your employment was?
Mr. MAMANTOV. With the Donnally Geophysical Co. here in Dallas as
seismologist.
Mr. JENNER. And over what period of time did that work extend?
Mr. MAMANTOV. It covers 1951, the summer of 1951 until the fall of
1955, when I took my present job.
Mr. JENNER. Let's take one step back--by whom were you employed, or
with whom were you associated, prior thereto?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Lion Match Co.
Mr. JENNER. L-y-o-n [spelling]?
Mr. MAMANTOV. L-i-o-n [spelling] Match Co. in New York.
Mr. JENNER. In what capacity?
Mr. MAMANTOV. As a production scheduling or scheduler for the machines.
Mr. JENNER. I take it, then, though, you were a trained geologist,
you at least at that phase of your career you were not pursuing your
profession or your particular calling?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Right, because I just came from Europe as a displaced
person and I didn't speak English enough.
Mr. JENNER. All right, I got back to where I was going to go faster
than I thought.
Mr. MAMANTOV. I'll put it this way--you want it in details--my
life--approximately at that time?
Mr. JENNER. Not in great detail, but start out this way--I am a native
of such and such country--and just tell us about yourself.
Mr. MAMANTOV. All right. I am a native of Russia. When I was 7 my
parents came to Latvia.
Mr. JENNER. They immigrated to Latvia?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Right, and there I was raised and educated and I received
my geological education and training. In 1945, excuse me, 1944,
we left for Germany with the retreating German Army and I went to
South Germany, stayed until the American Army moved in Peissenberg,
P-e-i-s-s-e-n-b-e-r-g [spelling], Germany and in August of that year,
excuse me, of 1945, we went to a DP camp.
Mr. JENNER. "DP" meaning displaced persons?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Displaced persons camp near Guenzburg, G-u-e-n-z-b-u-r-g
[spelling], Germany.
Mr. JENNER. You say "we", at the time were you married?
Mr. MAMANTOV. I, oh, I was married all time.
Mr. JENNER. When did you marry?
Mr. MAMANTOV. 1938.
Mr. JENNER. A native of Latvia or of Russia?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Latvia, and my wife is Latvian--native Latvian.
Mr. JENNER. By the way, what is your age, sir?
Mr. MAMANTOV. 50 and, so, I am--my mother-in-law was also with us.
Mr. JENNER. Who is she--what is her name?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Dorothy Gravitis, G-r-a-v-i-t-i-s [spelling].
Mr. JENNER. And is she in this country?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Right.
Mr. JENNER. All right. I'll ask you some more questions about her later.
Mr. MAMANTOV. And her husband was arrested by the Communist in 1941 and
we haven't heard of him since that time.
Mr. JENNER. You say "arrested by the Communist" do you make a
distinction when you use the word description "Communist" as something
different from the Russians?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Oh, yes; nothing to do with the nation. As you know,
Communists are in Latvia, Communists are in Russia, and Communists are
in Germany, and nothing to do with the nation. I am using this as an
occupational force--I'll put it this way.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mr. MAMANTOV. Or way of government.
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. And where did you receive your higher education?
Mr. MAMANTOV. In Riga, R-i-g-a [spelling], Latvia, which is the capital
of Latvia, and the name of the university was the University of Latvia.
Mr. JENNER. And have you had graduate school education?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's where I got my graduate school. My degree is
approximately equivalent to a local Ph. D--it's actually between
master's and Ph. D.
Mr. JENNER. When did you settle in Dallas?
Mr. MAMANTOV. In September 1955.
Mr. JENNER. And have you and Mrs. Mamantov resided in Dallas ever since?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No; my wife still was in Roswell, N. Mex., at that time
and she moved to Dallas immediately after the Thanksgiving Day.
Mr. JENNER. In 1955?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Right. You see, we received our citizenship in November
of 1955 at Roswell, N. Mex.
Mr. JENNER. Both you and your wife?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Whole family, and Mrs. Gravitis.
Mr. JENNER. Does that include Mrs. Gravitis?
Mr. MAMANTOV. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. Any particular reason why you were in Roswell, N. Mex.
Mr. MAMANTOV. I was with Donnally Geophysical Co. at that time.
Mr. JENNER. And was its main office located there?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No; this was the field party. The office is located
here in Dallas and we traveled--at the start of 1951--Post, Tex.;
Brownfield, Tex.; Lubbock, Tex.; Hobbs, N. Mex.; Odessa, Tex.; Roswell,
N. Mex., and I left----
Mr. JENNER. I think that's enough.
Mr. MAMANTOV. My family and my wife and I moved to Mississippi for a
month.
Mr. JENNER. Still employed by Lion?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Still employed by the seising crew which was in Magee,
Miss. From there we moved to Palacious, Tex. From there to Coalgate,
Okla.; from Coalgate, Okla., to Seminole, Tex. My wife quit the company
at that time and went to Roswell to join the family.
Mr. JENNER. Is your wife a professional person also?
Mr. MAMANTOV. She is not graduated from a law school, but she went
quite a way.
Mr. JENNER. She took legal training, training in the law?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Right, but she worked as a geologist--as geological
computer for that particular company.
Mr. JENNER. Did she finish her law work in Europe or here?
Mr. MAMANTOV. No; she didn't graduate. The Communists moved in and our
law didn't exist at that time, as well you know.
Mr. JENNER. For the purpose of the record, I am Albert E. Jenner, and
this gentleman is Jim Liebeler. We are members of the advisory staff
of the general counsel of the President's Assassination Commission,
and under the provisions of Executive Order 11130, dated November 29,
1963, Joint Resolution of Congress 137, and rules procedure adopted by
the Commission in conformance with the Executive order and the joint
resolution, we have been authorized to take the sworn deposition of Mr.
Mamantov.