The testimony of Paul M. Raigorodsky was taken at 11:15 a.m., on March
31, 1964, in his office, First National Bank Building, Dallas, Tex.,
by Mr. Albert E. Jenner, Jr., assistant counsel of the President's
Commission.
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Raigorodsky, do you swear that in the testimony you are
about to give, you will tell the truth, and nothing but the truth?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I do.
Mr. JENNER. Miss Oliver, this is Paul M. Raigorodsky, whose office is
in the First National Bank Building, Dallas, room 522, and who resides
in Dallas.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. At the Stoneleigh Hotel.
Mr. JENNER. Who resides at the Stoneleigh Hotel in Dallas.
Mr. Raigorodsky, I am Albert E. Jenner, Jr., of the legal staff of the
Warren Commission, and Mr. Robert T. Davis, who is also present, is
the assistant attorney general of the State of Texas and is serving
on the staff of the Texas Court of Inquiry. The Commission and the
attorney general's office of Texas are cooperating in their respective
investigations.
The Commission was authorized by Senate Joint Resolution 137 of the
U.S. Congress and was then created by President Lyndon B. Johnson
by Executive Order 11130 and its members appointed by him. The
Commission has adopted rules and regulations regarding the taking of
depositions. The Commission to investigate all the circumstances of the
assassination of President Kennedy.
We have some information that you are particularly well acquainted
with the overall so-called Russian emigre community in Dallas, and you
are an old time Dallasite, and while frankly we do not expect you to
have any direct information as to the assassination, today, we think
you do have some information that might help us with respect to--using
the vernacular--cast of characters, people who touched the lives of
Lee Harvey Oswald and Marina Oswald, as the case might be, and as I
understand it you appear voluntarily to assist us?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, sure.
Mr. JENNER. Helping out in any fashion your information may assist us
in that regard?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Sure.
Mr. JENNER. I think it will be well if you, in your own words, gave us
your general background, just give us your general background--when you
came to Texas and in general what your business experience has been.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. My background?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, commencing--I don't know where to start, please?
Mr. JENNER. Well, where were you born?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I was born in Russia, I lived in Russia until I was,
oh, let's see, I escaped from Russia in 1919, went to Czechoslovakia to
the university there.
Mr. JENNER. You did what, sir?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I went to the university there and I am escaping from
Russia--I fought against the Bolsheviks in two different armies and
then came to the United States with the help of the American Red Cross
and the YMCA.
Mr. JENNER. When was that?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. In December--the 28th, 1920.
Mr. JENNER. 1940?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. 1920.
Mr. JENNER. How old are you, by the way?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Sixty-five--exactly.
May I have this not on the record?
Mr. JENNER. All right.
(Discussion between Counsel Jenner and the witness off the record at
this point.)
Mr. JENNER. All right, go ahead.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, I came to this country.
Mr. JENNER. In 1920?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; and they told me that for the money that they
advanced for me to travel, that we only have to serve in the United
States for some capacity, so when I came in, I enlisted in the Air
Force and was sent to Camp Travis, Texas, and then in 1922 I received
an honorable discharge, and because it was I enlisted in time of
war, I became full-fledged citizen in 4 months after I arrived to
this country. We still were at war with Germany, the peace hadn't
been signed. And then I went to the University of Texas in 1922 and
graduated in 1924.
Mr. JENNER. What degree?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Civil Engineering. That's all they were giving, even
though my specialty is petroleum engineering, but I took courses in
different subjects.
By the way, first, I speak with accent and second, I speak with colds,
and you can stop me any time and I will be glad to repeat.
And, that was in 1924--then I went to work in Los Angeles, Calif. I
simultaneously married and that was in 1924. I married Ethel Margaret
McCaleb, whose father was with Federal Reserve Bank--a Governor or
whatever you call it.
Mr. JENNER. Federal Reserve Bank?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. It was here in Dallas under Wilson in 1918--he was
appointed. At that time he was a banker and was organizing banks. Then,
I stayed in California for some--from 1924 until more or less--until
1928. I worked as an engineer with E. Forrest Gilmore Co.
Mr. JENNER. Is that a Dallas concern?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No; that was a California concern, specializing in
the building of gasoline plants and refineries. Then, I worked for
Newton Process Manufacturing Co. and for Signal Oil and Gas Co.--just,
that is, progressive--you see, it was going from one to another,
getting higher pay and things like that, and then in 1928 the Newton
Process Manufacturing Co. was sold out and three of us, I was at that
time chief process engineer, and the other man was chief construction
engineer, and the third one was chief operational engineer--we
organized a company called Engineering Research and Equipment Co., and
we started to build gasoline plants and refineries. Then, I was sent to
Dallas because our business was good--I was sent to Dallas.
Mr. JENNER. Your business was growing?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, yes; growing. I was sent to Dallas and I organized
an office here. Then, we moved the company from Dallas and made the
Los Angeles office a branch office. Then, I went to Tulsa and opened
an office of our company there, and that way we were building lots of
plants in Louisiana, in Texas, in Oklahoma. Then, I sold out my third
in 1929. It was a good time to sell out, and I organized the Petroleum
Engineering Co., which company I have had ever since, until just
now--it is inoperative.
Then, I continued to--I opened an office in Houston and continued
to build gasoline plants and refineries under the name of Petroleum
Engineering Co. and built about 250 of them all over the world and
in the United States--lots of them--even in Russia, though I never
went there, we had a protocol (I believe No. 4), under which we were
supposed to have given them some refineries and gasoline plants--you
know the "chickens and the eggs" situation. The fact is I had an order
from the Treasury Department and one of them was sunk. Maybe this
should be off the record?
(Discussion between Counsel Jenner and the witness off the record at
this point.)
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Let's see, now, Pearl Harbor was in 1939?
Mr. JENNER. 1941; December of 1941.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. 1941?
Mr. DAVIS. 1941.
Mr. JENNER. December 8th.
Mr. DAVIS. The war started in 1939.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. The Germans invaded Poland in September 1939.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Already then we had the War Production Board, though
to begin with it was the Defense Board, and then War Production Board,
but I was asked to come to Washington. Now, let's see, which year was
it? Probably 1941--before the war.
Mr. JENNER. Before the war with Japan, you mean?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Before Pearl Harbor.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I was asked to come to Washington to organize the
Department of Natural Gas and Natural Gasoline Industries for the
United States, which I did, and then I had to open--I worked under
DeGolyer. I organized the Department from nothing until I had five
offices. We had districts in California and Tulsa and Chicago, Houston
and New York, and then in 1943 I resigned, and in the meantime I got
ulcer, you know, working like you do, until 11:30 nights, so in 1943 I
resigned and came back to my business.
Mr. JENNER. Here in Dallas?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No, in Houston. At that time I officed in Houston. By
the way, while I was building plants for others, I also built plants
for myself for the production of motor fuel, L.P.G. and other pipeline
products, and the first plant was built in 1936--the Glen Rose Gasoline
Co. The second one was built in 1943--the Claiborne Gasoline Co. Then,
I lived in Houston until about 1949 or 1950 and I got sick with my
back. You know, I have a very bad back. They wanted to operate on me
there but Jake Hamon here, a friend of mine, told me that he wouldn't
speak to me unless I come to Dallas, so believe or not, they brought me
to Dallas.
That's very interesting what I am going to tell you--in an ambulance
from Houston--and there was a Dr. Paul Williams--he told me that
without operation he would put me on my feet. I never went back to
Houston, even to close my apartment or to close my office, but I
moved my apartment and my offices here to Dallas and I offered people
that worked with me, that I would pay them for whatever loss they
had, because in selling their houses and moving here, lock, stock and
barrel, I never went back. I was so mad, and I have lived here ever
since with one exception. I believe it was in 1952--in 1952 I was asked
by--you know General Anderson, by any chance?
Mr. JENNER. No.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. He was what we call--there was an organization in
Europe called SRE, Special Representatives to Europe. There was an
Ambassador Draper at the head of it, and Ambassador Anderson is a
Deputy, and in 1952 Ambassador Anderson asked me to come to Europe
and help them with production, so I went to Europe to improve the
production of tanks, planes, ammunition, et cetera for all the NATO
countries.
I was Deputy Director of Production. Now, I think I was getting along
all right and again I got sick in my neck this time, so they flew
me--they flew me to Johns Hopkins and found out that I had bad neck. By
the way, I'm not supposed to have this, but here is my card.
(Handed instrument to Counsel Jenner.)
I left in such a hurry, they flew me under such pain, that I didn't
return anything, and I had to start to destroy most of the things, and
I didn't destroy this one. I stayed there for several months and then I
came back here and I have been here ever since, living here, going to
different places, going to Europe and I made trips to Europe, Tahiti,
Jamaica, and finally bought a plantation in Jamaica together with some
other friends here and we organized a club called Tryall, T-r-y-a-l-l
[spelling] Golf Club, and I go there every year now. That's about all.
My wife divorced me in 1943 for the primary reason that I wouldn't
retire. I have two daughters, one is Mrs. Harry Bridges. That has
nothing to do with the----
Mr. JENNER. With the Longshoremen?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That has nothing to do with the Longshoremen. And off
the record now.
(Discussion between Counsel Jenner and the witness off the record.)
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. In fact, I just came from the wedding. That's the
second marriage. Then, I have another daughter--maybe you know my
son-in-law, Howard Norris?
Mr. DAVIS. Where is he--in Washington?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Howard Lee Norris, he graduated, I think, in 1951 or
1952.
Mr. DAVIS. No, I don't think so. What business is he in?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Lawyer of the University of Texas.
Mr. DAVIS. No, I don't think so.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I am very proud of that. That's my child.
(At this point the witness exhibited wedding pictures to Counsel
Jenner.)
Mr. JENNER. This is your daughter on the left?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes. And, I will answer anything else you want to now.
Mr. JENNER. All right. While living in the Dallas area, and I listened
to your splendid career, I assume that--and if this assumption is
wrong, please correct me--that the people of Russian descent who came
into this area of Texas would tend to seek your advice or assistance,
that you in turn voluntarily, on your own part, had an interest
in those people in the community and that in any event you became
acquainted with a good many people from Europe who settled in this
general area--in the Dallas metropolitan area and even up into Houston?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes--Louise, will you get me my church file?
(Addressing his secretary, Mrs. Louise Meek.)
Mr. JENNER. Will you be good enough to tell me first, and Mr. Davis, in
general of the usual--if there is a usual pattern of someone coming in
here? How they become acquainted? What is the community of people of
Russian descent, and I do want to tell you in advance that the thought
I have in mind in this connection is trying to follow the Oswalds.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. What would be the common manner and fashion in which the
Oswalds would become acquainted, or others would become acquainted with
them, and before you get to that, that's kind of a specific, I want you
to give me from your fund of knowledge and your interests--tell me what
your interests have been, what the expected pattern would be of people
coming--like Marina Oswald, for example, into this community?
Let's not make it Marina Oswald--I don't want to get into a specific,
but let's take a hypothetical couple?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. All right. I can just summarize what happened in the
many years that I have been both in Houston and in Dallas.
There are methods of, I would say, of immigration into the communities
in Dallas of the Russians I'm talking about. One is via friendship,
acquaintanceship somewhere in Europe or in China or somewhere else, but
with different Russians and the order by the Tolstoy Foundation--you
are acquainted with the Tolstoy Fund?
Mr. JENNER. I think for the purposes of the record, since the reader
may not be acquainted with it, that you might help a little bit on the
Tolstoy Foundation.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, Miss Alexandra Tolstoy is a daughter of our
great novelist, Leo Tolstoy, and I guess you know him, and she came
to this country and she organized a Tolstoy Foundation, which takes
care of Russian refugees throughout the world wherever they may be.
They process them, which means that they know all about them before
they come into here through their own organization or your different
organizations. Like, you have a church in the United States--you have
a church organization or all kinds of benevolent organizations that
want to help refugees and they don't know who to help so they go to
the Tolstoy Foundation and therefore the Tolstoy Foundation is able to
place many, many Russians in this country, not only in this country
but--I am on the Board of Directors of the Tolstoy Foundation--but also
in European countries. Sometimes they cannot bring them to the United
States, not enough money perhaps. Now, anybody who comes to the Tolstoy
Foundation, you know right off of the bat they have been checked,
rechecked and double checked. There is no question about them. I mean,
that's the No. 1 stamp.
Mr. JENNER. That's the No. 1 stamp of an approval or of their
genuineness?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Of approval--in fact, the U.S. Government recognized
that and has been up until about a year or two ago giving the Tolstoy
Foundation as much as $400,000 a year subsidy for this kind of work.
Now, of the other Russians that come here, as I said, they come in
through acquaintanceship--most of them.
Mr. JENNER. They come because of prior acquaintanceship?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. With some.
Mr. JENNER. With some people who are here?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right--correspondence you see. Like we have
in Houston--we had a bunch of people coming from Serbia, you know,
Yugoslavia--the few we have that left Russia and went to Yugoslavia
and then they had to escape Yugoslavia, and there was quite a Russian
colony there and some of them drifted to the United States and settled
in Houston, and of course they start correspondence and working and
lots of other people came to Houston and to Dallas through that channel.
Mr. JENNER. They followed?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Then, there is a small bunch of Russians that appear
from nowhere. I mean, they don't come with any approval from Tolstoy
Foundation or do they come through the acquaintanceship of people here.
They just drift and there's no place, believe me, in the world where
you cannot find one Russian. Now, I would like this off the record.
Mr. JENNER. All right. Off the record.
(Discussion between Counsel Jenner and the witness off the record at
this point.)
Mr. JENNER. All right. Now, let's have this on the record.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Now, because of my--I always believe that even though
I am, myself, not much of a churchgoing man, but I believe that the
only way to unite Russians, and I think they should be united in this
country, was through a church, so, for many years we had a church
in Texas--at Galveston--but that church--we didn't like because the
Serbian priest, they were coming over there. We couldn't figure it out,
whether they were one side of the fence or the other.
Mr. JENNER. One side of what fence or the other?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, the only fence I know of is between the
communism and the anticommunism.
Mr. JENNER. All right. You are on the anticommunistic side of the fence?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh; of course.
Mr. JENNER. I want that to appear on record is why I asked.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, yes; I have been all my life. So, let's see, maybe
in 1949 or thereabouts--I have donated quite a bit of money to the
Russian colony in Houston there with the understanding that if they
would secure at least 50 percent of additional money from the rest
of the people of the Russian colony, that they buy or build a church
there, which they did.
Mr. JENNER. What religion is that--the name of the church?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Russian--Greek Orthodox. You may call it also Eastern
Greek Orthodox. It's the same religion as Greek Catholics have with two
main differences--one is the language in which the service is performed
is the old Slavic languages against Greek, and then, of course, we have
our own Patriarch at the head of our own church.
Mr. JENNER. In Houston?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, no, no; we have in New York--it's Metropolitan
Anastasia, who is the head of our church of this country.
Mr. JENNER. Who was the pastor over in Houston?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, I will come to that.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Then, when we got to--when I came to Dallas we had
Father Royster here of the church, I mean, he is a convert. He is an
American convert to the Greek Orthodox religion and he approached me
because he wanted to build the Church of St. Seraphim in Dallas.
Mr. JENNER. You must be acquainted with Father Royster?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. He knows me very well, but anyhow, here it is about
the church here----
Mr. JENNER. The full name is Dimitri Robert Royster--go right ahead.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. (Handed instrument to Counsel Jenner.) That gives
us the history of the situation here, but then we had a split here
between the Russians who came to this country escaping the Communists
or Bolsheviks, at that time we called them--they called themselves the
Guard.
Mr. JENNER. The original church that you helped organize, that is
referred to as the Old Guard?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right, and St. Seraphim you see, because we
both occupy the same premises and I was the head of both of them.
Mr. JENNER. You were the head of both churches?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, yes; I belong to both churches. In fact I belong
to three churches.
Mr. JENNER. They are different parishes in the same church, aren't they?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No, they are entirely different churches. I would like
to explain to you--you see, in this country--I'm quite sure you know--I
don't know whether you would be interested in what I am going to tell
you about?
Mr. JENNER. I am primarily interested in this--from the depositions I
have taken and inquiries I have made, my impression is that one of the
immediate sources of obtaining acquaintanceship in the community by
refugees who come here is through the church.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. St. Seraphim's is one parish and then there is another
one--George Bouhe's folks.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. Or the church he is most active in, and I forget the name
of that one--what is that?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's St. Nicholas.
Mr. JENNER. That's the St. Nicholas Church?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I'm head of that one.
Mr. JENNER. You are head of that one?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And you say it is a third one?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No, it is not a third one here--just the two. Now you
see, this is the thing I have to tell you then, because that is, again,
leads to the same Oswald situation, I believe.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. You see, the Father Royster Church is not just for
Russians. It is for all the Greek Orthodox, whether they are Serbians,
Sicilians, or Lebanese--and there are lots of people that came for
the same religion even though their services in their own churches is
in their own language, but here they are all in the English language
because of Father Royster's.
Mr. JENNER. Father Royster preaches the sermons in English?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, yes; there is no question he is an American, he
was a teacher at S.M.U. until he resigned. Now, I am a member of this
church because it is a Greek Orthodox and I want to help them--that
means I pay my dues and I help them with everything they need, in
fact, we have a monastery there--that's the one which Father Royster
organized of which also I helped them. Now, the difference between
Father Royster's Church and Bouhe's Church, as you know it----
Mr. JENNER. St. Nicholas?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. St. Nicholas--so that Father Royster belongs to
Metropolitan Leonty--Metropolitan Leonty is in New York, and if you
may say so, he is a competitor of Metropolitan Anastasia. Metropolitan
Leonty is the head of the American Russian Church. You see, before the
revolution, we had a church in America, and he was the head of it.
Metropolitan Anastasia is the head of the Russians outside of Russia,
because he is--whether he escaped Russia like all of us--therefore,
all of us who escaped with him or about the same time belonged to that
church.
Mr. JENNER. I see.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. It is very simple, and as far as I am concerned
it is the better method, because we know each other, we know about
each other, we know which fought, which one fought against the
Bolsheviks--all of the so-called St. Nicholas Church is an old
anti-Communist group--period.
Now, the St. Seraphim Church can be infiltrated by anybody because
nobody checks, you see, the only thing and there is no tie-in there
except for the church--not that there is a tie-in because we fought
against communism and because of the church. The same thing in Houston,
the tie-in was not only because of the church but because we fought
against communism and even though we came through different grounds,
some through New York, some through California, but we got there and so
we have a church over there.
Now, I personally believe that a church is a church--as long as it is
my religion. I will go to one or I will go to another one. It doesn't
make any difference to me--I tried to get them together and I didn't
succeed in that town. In Houston--I think that is because it is only
one church--it is more successful.
Now, I don't know it for a fact, but except as I was told by Father
Royster that the Oswalds came through Fort Worth originally. Now, this
is hearsay--that I believe they got acquainted with the people by the
name of Clark.
Mr. JENNER. Max Clark?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I mean, that's all hearsay--I do not know it for a
fact. While she is a Russian, in fact she is a first cousin of a very
close friend of mine, Prince Sherbatoff, who lives in New York and
lives in Jamaica. That's where I see him occasionally. Now, it is my
understanding that the Clarks told some of their friends--again, this
is hearsay, that "Here is a Russian married to an American and they
don't even have milk for the babies." Now, that is my understanding.
And so, the Russians, I mean of both churches, because there are not
many Russians in our church as against another, started to provide them
groceries, buy milk for the baby, in fact I was told that they had her
fix her teeth--her teeth were absolutely, oh, it is unspeakable.
Mr. JENNER. This would, from your observation, be a perfectly normal
sort of thing that would occur in this community through the churches
that you have mentioned. They are small churches, the people are well
acquainted with all the parishioners, that is, acquainted with each
other. They seek to help?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Absolutely.
Mr. JENNER. They seek to help those who come from Europe as refugees or
otherwise?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. Those of Russian or Serbian or Central European derivation?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right--that's correct.
Mr. JENNER. About when was the first you heard of hearsay or otherwise
of----
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That that happened that way?
Mr. JENNER. No, of the Oswalds at all? When did it first come to your
attention that the Oswalds were here in the Dallas-Fort Worth area?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. The assassination. I am absolutely ignorant of their
names--I never saw them before the assassination.
Mr. JENNER. I appreciate that--had you heard of the Oswald name?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No, never had.
Mr. JENNER. Prior to November 22, 1963?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No, in fact, I have heard a Russian discussing those
things which I tell you are hearsay with me, on a meeting--we have
yearly meetings.
Mr. JENNER. Did you say yearly?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Once a year--we meet to elect officers. We meet once a
year to elect the officers.
Mr. JENNER. Is this true of both St. Nicholas and St. Seraphim?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. It's St. Nicholas. In St. Seraphim I do not attend
to any kind of administrative duties. I am just a parishioner, now,
because, first of all, I believe that sooner or later all of us
will die in the other church and there will be nothing left but St.
Seraphim. First, because St. Seraphim Church is growing. Well, if there
are one or two of us left--it would be fine. You see, how we are at St.
Nicholas--we are supposed to meet once a month and we are supposed to
have the priest from Houston come here and perform services, but now
Houston doesn't have the priest and so we don't have the priest. So,
our priest from Galveston comes up.
Mr. JENNER. Comes up here?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. And I personally don't like him--so I wouldn't go to
the services in my own church on his account.
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Now, I went to New York and I discussed with our
people from our Synod, you know.
Mr. JENNER. The Synod, S-y-n-o-d (spelling)?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. And they are sending us a priest, a new priest, who
will be stationed in Houston and then they come here once a month, but
the Houston community is down to about 15 families and this is not any
better. We have about 10 families, I would say.
Mr. JENNER. When you say different--you mean here in Dallas?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. In Dallas--yes.
Mr. JENNER. What is the name of the priest who comes up from Galveston?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Let me see--maybe I have it here.
(Examining file.)
Maybe he's not from Galveston--he comes from Houston, but he's the one
that was, you know,--can this be off the record--I just throw those
notices in the waste basket because I don't want to hear from him.
(Discussion between Counsel Jenner and the Witness off the record at
this point.)
Mr. JENNER. Miss Oliver, Mr. Raigorodsky has handed me a one-sheet
document, single spaced, typed, entitled "Some Historical Information
Concerning St. Seraphim Eastern Orthodox Church," which I have
perused, and in view of the testimony of previous witnesses regarding
the organization of St. Seraphim's Church and their attendance at
its services, and our parishioners who have some contact through
the church, or at least because of their acquaintance with other
parishioners, and in turn with the Oswalds, it would be helpful to have
this statement in the record, and will you please copy it.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. You can have that--I have a photostat of it.
Mr. JENNER. Well, I want to copy it in the record.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. All right. "Some Historical Information Concerning St.
Seraphim Eastern Orthodox Church."
In April of 1954, a small group of converts to the Orthodox Faith (Rev.
Ilya Rudolph Rangel, rector of the already existing Mexican Orthodox
Church under the jurisdiction of Bishop Bogdan, Dimitri Robert Royster,
a subdeacon in Bishop Bogdan's jurisdiction, and Miss Dimitra Royster)
sought permission of their bishop to organize an English-language
Orthodox mission in the city of Dallas. It may be stated parenthetically
that the three above-mentioned persons were working, at the time of the
organization of St. Seraphim's, in close cooperation with St. Nicholas
Russian Orthodox Church, of which Father Alexander Chernay of Houston
was pastor and which held services periodically in the chapel of the
Sunday School building at St. Matthew's Episcopal Cathedral.
Father Rangel and Subdeacon Royster set out to find a building that
would be suitable to house the activities of the projected mission.
Property was located at the corner of McKinney Avenue (3734) and
Blackburn Street. The sale price of the property was $15,000, and since
the financial resources of the organizers were limited, Father Rangel
and Subdeacon Royster went to seek the aid of Mr. Paul Raigorodsky,
a member of St. Nicholas' Parish. Mr. Raigorodsky agreed to make it
possible for the group to acquire a loan from the First National Bank
in Dallas in order to purchase the property (on which there was an
eight-room two-story house). The property was bought in the name of St.
Seraphim's Church.
Services in English began to be held in June of 1954. Father Rangel
conducted occasional services--Sunday Vespers weekly and an early
Liturgy once a month. Father Rangel and Subdeacon Royster constructed
an iconostas and made a number of shrines and articles, and a chapel
was arranged on the first floor of the house. After a month or 2 the
members of St. Nicholas' Parish were invited to use the chapel, since
one of their members had been so instrumental in the acquisition of the
property.
On November 6, 1954, Subdeacon Royster was ordained to the priesthood
by Bishop Bogdan and became rector of St. Seraphim's Church. Shortly
afterwards, it was agreed to transfer the title of the property at 3734
McKinney to St. Nicholas' Church. It was further agreed that the two
groups would use the chapel, St. Nicholas' Church 1 weekend per month
and St. Seraphim's Church the rest of the time.
In January of 1955 an extensive renovation program was undertaken, and
both floors of the house were redecorated, sheet-rocked and painted.
Father Hilarion Madison had been ordained by Bishop Bogdan on October
31, 1954, and had worked with Father Rangel as assistant pastor at the
Mexican Church until December 1954, when he joined the work at St.
Seraphim's and became assistant to Father Royster.
For a few months joint services were held on the occasions when Father
Alexander Chernay visited Dallas; that is, Father Dimitri and Father
Hilarion concelebrated with Father Alexander.
In March 1955, Bishop Bogdan directed Father Dimitri and Father
Hilarion to begin mission work in Fort Worth, taking advantage of the
weekends when Father Alexander was in Dallas, in order to extend the
benefits of the missionary activity to a group of Orthodox residents of
that city. Services were held in the chapel of St. Andrew's Episcopal
Church in downtown Fort Worth until the summer of 1956.
In order better to pursue its mission as an English-language parish and
to attract orthodox people of all national backgrounds, St. Seraphim's
Church decided to acquire property of its own. A house was bought at
4203 Newton Avenue, and a chapel, meeting room, office and kitchen were
arranged in the house after considerable renovation. This building
served the needs of the parish until the new church was built in March
and April of 1961. The house was then converted into a parish hall. In
1962, an adjacent lot with its house were bought by the parish. The
house is being renovated at present and will eventually be used for a
rectory.
In September of 1958 the parish was transferred from the jurisdiction
of Bishop Bogdan to that of Metropolitan Leonty, the Russian Metropolia.
Membership in St. Seraphim's parish has grown from the original 3 to
approximately 125 souls. Average attendance at the Sunday Liturgy
has increased year by year and is now about 75. A Sunday School with
two classes is maintained. Services are held regularly on Wednesday,
Saturday, and Sunday evenings, and the Liturgy is celebrated on Sundays
and on holy days.
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Raigorodsky, in that connection, this document which is
entitled "Some Historical Information Concerning St. Seraphim Eastern
Orthodox Church," when was that prepared?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I have no idea because I have--let's see--the early
part of this year I have asked Father Royster if he has anything
historical about the St. Seraphim, how it started and everything, or
can he prepare something, and he said "No," he already had something,
and I said, "All right, send me a copy of it."
Mr. JENNER. Do you understand that Father Royster prepared this
historical summary?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's my understanding.
Mr. JENNER. Now, have you read this historical summary?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, yes; I did.
Mr. JENNER. And, are you familiar with the events and course of events
that are recited in that 1-page summary?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I am.
Mr. JENNER. And to the best of your knowledge and information, does
Father Royster, if he prepared it or whomever prepared it, is the
recital reasonably accurate?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, I'll say it's reasonably accurate except it does
not give the actual reason for the split of the churches. You see, here
he said:
"In order better to pursue its mission," as a native language parish,
"and to attract orthodox people of all national backgrounds, St.
Seraphim's Church decided to acquire property of its own."
Well, that's not the reason--the reason is that we couldn't get along
together, you see, and there was a constant fight between the two
churches.
Mr. JENNER. And, the factions split primarily, as I understand your
testimony today, over the Father Royster group, and I use that
expression not to tag him, well, I'll say the St. Nicholas Church,
that would possibly be better, because Father Royster preached in the
English language.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. And in the St. Nicholas Church or parish the services were
said in what language, again?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. In the old Slavic language. That's not the principal
reason either.
Mr. JENNER. Then, another reason is that the organizers of the St.
Nicholas Church were, as you have said, labeled "Old Guard" in the
sense that they were composed primarily of those people of Russian
origin and other Slavic origins who in Europe fought----
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Either fought or escaped.
Mr. JENNER. Fought the Communists or Bolsheviks or escaped from their
regime.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes--because there are lots of women and children over
there, you see, they never fought against them.
Mr. JENNER. Yes; there are a lot of ladies, of course, who did not
fight.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Sure.
Mr. JENNER. And because of that common experience they tended to stay
together?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right--more closely knit.
Mr. JENNER. More closely knit and they had a preference for the use of
the basic language, and that group organized the St. Nicholas Church.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. St. Nicholas was organized to begin with.
Mr. JENNER. Then, you tended to support it and you have supported it
and you are more active in that Church?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Sure.
Mr. JENNER. You are more active by far, in fact, you are an officer of
that group, are you not?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; I am president.
Mr. JENNER. You are president of that group, but you are a member of
the other parish or the other church and you assist it financially as a
parishioner?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Is there anything else in the 1-page summary prepared or
given to you by Father Royster that you would like to comment upon?
Mr. DAVIS. I would like to ask--did we ever get to the real reason for
the split of the church?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I just made a statement a while ago.
Mr. DAVIS. I didn't understand--what was the reason that the church was
split?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, they just couldn't get along together. I mean,
it's purely personality.
You see, Father Royster at that time--that's the main point--Father
Royster doesn't mean anything to you or to me, but to lots of Russians
it means everything. You see, Father Royster at that time belonged to
the Ukraine branch of the church. You see, he couldn't get ordained,
but then he tried to, and I tried to help him to be ordained by
Metropolitan and Anastasia, but he couldn't fulfill the requirements so
he tried to get in through Metropolitan Leonty. He couldn't quite get
in because of their requirements, but they suggested that he will be
ordained by the Russian Ukranian Church, of which Father Joseph Bogdan,
B-o-g-d-a-n [spelling] had the jurisdiction of the Ukranian branch of
Metropolitan Leonty's branch of the Russian Church in this country, and
so, you see, and that was--now, we have to go back through the basic
facts that Russians and Ukranians have never gotten along together, and
in fact, Ukranians were separative--they wanted to separate from the
rest of the Russians and he will have their church to become part of
their parish. That was just going against the grain of every Russian.
Now, all those things tended to create dissatisfaction and fights, I
mean verbal fights, of course--no physical violence of any kind, but
verbal fights, and Father Royster decided to pull out and he asked
me if I would help him, and I said, "Sure, as long as it is a Greek
Orthodox Church," and that's how it happened.
You see, some of the statements--like he said, "In September of 1958
the parish was transferred from the jurisdiction of Bishop Bogdan to
that of Metropolitan Leonty, the Russian Metropolia."
Well, he is Russian Metropolia, but it isn't finished--in this country.
Mr. JENNER. The words "in this country" should be added there?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; in the United States. I mean, those are minor,
but substantially, it is correct--what he said.
Mr. JENNER. With those explanations, Miss Oliver, will you please copy
the historical statement into the record?
The REPORTER. Yes, sir.
(The instrument referred to is set forth on pp. 8 and 9 of this volume.)
Mr. JENNER. These differences of opinion, historical, religious, and
otherwise, and arguments rather than facts, tend to affect also the
views of an individual who is a member of St. Nicholas Church with
respect to individuals who regularly attended St. Seraphim's?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, it's a peculiar thing that the people, as I
understand it, who helped Mrs. Oswald, were people from St. Nicholas
Church.
Mr. JENNER. Largely?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. So--I don't know how that came about--perhaps she is
Russian. I can understand so much--she is a Russian and St. Nicholas is
Russian and St. Seraphim is Eastern Orthodox.
Mr. JENNER. Did I understand you correctly, sir, that the parishioners,
by and large, of St. Nicholas are exclusively anti-Communists?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. There's no question about it.
Mr. JENNER. Because of the history, there's no question about
it--largely?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Largely.
Mr. JENNER. There are other reasons, but that substantially is one
major motivating force?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. And while they would be interested in assisting persons who
are of Russian birth, who would come into this community, would they
also be interested in ascertaining at least what they thought might be
the political views of someone who came fresh from Russia, with in turn
the thought in mind that if that person or persons or family in their
opinion had some affiliation with or even sympathetic to what we in
America call the Communists in control of Russia, that these people in
St. Nicholas would have an aversion to them?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Correct. You see, he asked the question you are
getting to--that is the first time I heard she was Russian--they told
me they were interrogated by different branches of the Government and
that is the first time they told me that they know of Marina Oswald,
how they helped her and everything else and I asked them--"How did it
happen?" Now, she went to the church to have her child christened.
Mr. JENNER. She went to St. Nicholas?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No; St. Seraphim's.
Mr. JENNER. And that caused what?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That caused them to think and to know, as they
understood it, that she did it practically at the peril of her life.
Mr. JENNER. She did what?