now. Mr. Hamilton also says that it is the interest of the agent to
delay the settlement until he gets the men in debt to him again.
That is not the fact.
14,683. Do you mean that it is not the fact that it is his interest to
do so?-It is not his interest; and it is not the fact that he does it, to
my knowledge.
14,684. Is it not the interest of the agent to get man to take goods
from him?-It is the interest of the agent to sell goods to a man,
but not to get him into his debt.
14,685. But if a man takes goods from the agent, is he not in the
agent's debt?-He does not leave it as debt. When a man gets his
wages, it is the interest of the agent to sell as much goods to him
as possible; but that is a cash transaction over the counter after the
settlement
14,686. Are there many such cash transactions?-A good
many-not so many at the time of settlement; but we see the
men repeatedly after they have been paid.
14,687. Do they come back to you and spend part of the cash they
have got?-Yes. I cannot tell whether it is the same cash or not,
but they do spend cash. We see them almost daily.
14,688. When you have been settling in Mr. Tait's office with the
men who had been at Greenland, was it usual, when they came
down from the Custom House, to ask them if they wanted any
goods?-Sometimes we did that, and sometimes not; but we never
pressed them to take goods.
14,689. But it was not unusual to ask them?-We might ask them
if they required anything, and sometimes they bought something
from us after settlement.
14,690. In that case would it be added to their account at the time,
or would there just be a handing back of the cash to you for the
goods?-Just a handing back of the cash.
14,691. Such purchases are usually made after settlement?-They
are always made after settlement, at least almost invariably; but
occasionally I have seen men purchasing goods and laying them
aside until they got their money, and then paying for them. In that
case the goods were not entered into any book, but were just put
up into a parcel and laid aside for them.
[Page 369]
Lerwick, January 29, 1872, Dr. ROBERT COWIE, examined.
14,692. You are a medical practitioner in Lerwick?-I am.
14,693. Are you a native of Shetland?-Yes; a native of Lerwick.
14,694. Have you lived here almost all your life?-Yes; except
when I was south for my education.
14,695. I presume you have had many opportunities of mixing
with all orders of people here in the course of the practice of your
profession, and also previously to some extent?-I have.
14,696. You are acquainted with the fact that a system of barter
prevails very extensively in different parts of the islands?-Yes,
almost universally.
14,697. And that both fish and hosiery are paid for, to a
considerable extent, in that way?-Yes.
14,698. With regard to hosiery, has it come within your own
knowledge that knitters are paid in goods to an extent that is
unwholesome for themselves and for the community?-Yes, in
drapery goods.
14,699. In what way has that been forced upon your attention?-
Sometimes in the discharge of my professional duties, I have
observed that there was an utter disproportion between the
clothing and the food of these knitters. I am no judge as to the
value or quality of the goods, but many of them are clothed in a
very gaudy, showy manner, and in a way quite inconsistent with
their position in life. I have reason to know at the same time that
their food is utterly insufficient. I have known knitting girls, one
might almost say, starving or very nearly, starving, when they were
at the same time very well dressed or dressed in a very showy
manner; and I would give an illustration of that. I remember one
Sunday, between one and two o'clock in the afternoon, being
called in to see a poor man, in Lerwick. He was very ill, and
evidently dying. He asked me if I could prescribe anything that
would relieve him, and I replied that I knew of no medicine that
could really do him good,-that the only thing I could recommend
was some sherry wine and beef tea. His reply was, if it came to
that, it was utterly out of the question, for he had not the means of
getting such luxuries. He told me that all the money they had in
the house was a single shilling, and that they had lived for some
days, as far as I remember, entirely upon tea and bread. A few
minutes after having that conversation with him, I saw the poor
man's daughter-who was his only daughter, so far as I am aware,
and who lived with him-going to church, dressed like a fine lady.
That struck me as being a very deplorable state of matters. Here
were a family who were on the verge of starvation, and unable to
get medical comforts for their dying parent, and yet the daughter,
who was a knitter, was I might almost say magnificently dressed.
14,700. Is that the strongest and most striking instance of the kind
that has come under your notice?-I think it is, in that form.
14,701. Have you seen other instances in which you were led to
believe that the state of things was similar?-Yes, very similar.
On many occasions knitters have consulted me as to their health,
complaining of certain forms of dyspepsia. I inquired as to their
food, and found it was very insufficient, while at the same time
they were well dressed, at least apparently well dressed. But I
would remark as to their dress, that I have reason to believe that
the dress which the knitting girls in Lerwick and girls of the lower
orders all over Shetland wear is not adapted to the climate. There
is too much cotton in it; it is too thin, and it is insufficient to
protect them from the inclemency of the weather. In former times
in Shetland a great deal of the clothing worn by the females was
home-made: it consisted of woollen garments, which were much
better adapted to the climate.
14,702. Is it not the case that in the country districts the women
still make the greater part of their own clothing?-I suppose
they do; but what I intended to refer to just now was their inside
clothing. I think there is too much cotton worn now, and not
sufficient warm worsted clothing.
14,703. Then the worsted underclothing which the Shetland
women make is entirely for the market, not for their own use?-
I fear they sell it and buy cotton underclothing instead. I believe
the disproportion, as I may term it, which exists between the food
and the clothing of these knitters is chiefly, if not entirely, due to
the system of truck by which they are paid.
14,704. Do you refer to the difficulty which they have in getting
money for their work?-Yes; and to the fact that they get goods,
chiefly drapery goods, for it.
14,705. Do you think that induces them to take larger quantity of
dress than they really need?-I think so.
14,706. But at the same time you say that they do not have a
sufficient amount of good underclothing?-Yes. I do not think
they have a sufficient amount of good, warm, substantial
underclothing for the climate in which they live.
14,707. Might they not get that if they required it in return for their
work?-I suppose they might, but the fact is that they very seldom
have it. They rather prefer to take showy outside clothing.
14,708. If women are reduced to distress for food, but yet have a
considerable supply of handsome clothing, would you not suppose
it natural that they should have recourse to the pawnbroker's shop
in winter, or when they were in straits?-I would, but I am not
quite sure if there is a pawnbroker's shop here. There is a sort of
pawn in the town, but I don't think it is much resorted to. I have
no doubt, if they were in a large city, they would resort to the
pawnbroker's; but pawnbroking is practically unknown here. The
people, some way or other, have not got into the way of it.
14,709. Have you known any cases in which women, in a state of
distress for food, have sold their clothes to private individuals for
it, or have endeavoured to do so?-I am aware that there are one
or more old women employed, either regularly or occasionally, in
going round the houses and hawking clothes which had been
obtained by knitters for their goods. On one occasion I met in with
one of these women. I was seeing a patient in the house of one of
the lower orders, and the woman came in with some article of
children's clothing to sell. I inquired how she had got it, and I was
told that she was hawking it for some person who had got it for
knitting goods.
14,710. Then she had not bought it, but was selling it as the agent
of another person?-Yes. She was selling it, as I understood, as
the agent of the knitter.
14,711. Have you had opportunities of obtaining any knowledge
with regard to the amount of immorality which prevails in
Lerwick?-I have heard, and I have reason to believe, that it
prevails to a very considerable extent; but I have had no means
of obtaining any accurate knowledge on the subject.
14,712. Are you aware whether the amount of professional
prostitution is greater in Lerwick than in other places of the
same size?-I am not very well acquainted with small towns
similar to Lerwick; there are only one or two small towns that I
know well. I am better acquainted with large cities, such as
Edinburgh and Aberdeen; but I scarcely think that in Lerwick
there is a greater amount of professionals prostitution, in
proportion to the size of the place, than there would be in a
seaport town of a similar size.
14,713. Would you say there was a larger amount of occasional
prostitution?-I believe there is. I don't think I could prove it,
but I have good reason to believe so.
14,714. Is that from knowledge which you have obtained in
the discharge of your professional duties, or is it from general
observation?-It is partly from hearsay, and partly from general
observation.
14,715. Can you ascribe that in any degree to the system of barter
which prevails?-I think it may to a large extent be accounted for
by that system; because the knitters, I believe, are insufficiently
supplied with food, and they are supplied with plenty of handsome
clothing. They are thus led to walk about the streets good deal,
and are in that way led into evil courses.
[Page 370]
14,716. Is that an opinion which you have entertained for some
time?-Yes. I think it is to be expected in the ordinary course of
events, that if women, have insufficient food and plenty of showy
clothing, they will be more apt to go astray than others who have
comfortable homes, and plenty of food and clothing in keeping
with their position in life.
14,717. You are aware, I presume, that statistics show the amount
of illegitimacy in Shetland to be less than it is in many parts of
Scotland?-I am aware of that.
14,718. Is not that inconsistent to some extent, or apparently
inconsistent, with the opinion you have expressed about the state
of morals in Lerwick?-It is apparently inconsistent; but I am
afraid that in Shetland we get credit for a higher state of morality
than we are entitled to, in the country districts.
14,719. Do you mean that the system of registration here is not
efficient?-I mean merely that the Registrar General's returns do
not always show that illegitimacy corresponds with immorality.
14,720. Is that in consequence of the marriages being celebrated
at such times as show the existence of what clergymen call
antenuptial fornication?-It is partly in consequence of that,
but not altogether.
14,721. Then is it possible to reconcile these statistics entirely
with the prevalence of an excessive amount of immorality?-I
have heard attempts to explain it, but I don't know if they were
satisfactory. However, it is such a delicate matter that I would
rather not enter further into it.
14,722. Have you no satisfactory explanation to give on the
subject?-No.
14,723. Has it fallen within your observation, that the want of
food has had any physical effect upon the women employed in
knitting?-I remember being recently told by a respectable
married woman, who was very well acquainted with the habits of
knitting girls, that many of them enjoyed very good health, and felt
pretty well and vigorous during the first two or three days of the
week, but became languid towards the end of it; and she explained
that circumstance in this way: These girls got an extra supply of
food on the Saturday night, and they walked about a good deal
during the Sunday, which, as it were, recruited them; but towards
the end of the week their supplies got exhausted, and they did not
enjoy much out-door exercise, and therefore became languid.
14,724. How do you account for their obtaining an extra supply
of food on the Saturday night?-They were probably settling
then. Many of them, I may explain, are not mere knitters, but are
otherwise occupied. They are very ready, I believe, to take other
work when they can get it, and many of them live not wholly by
their own exertions, but partly on their parents and friends;
therefore there would be extra supplies of food and groceries
going into the house on the Saturday night, which they had
enjoyed during the first days of the week.
14,725. Have you been aware of cases in which the way of dealing
has led to the formation of imprudent habits on the part of the
women?-I think they are very extravagant as regards dress.
14,726. Do they also expend a great deal of money on what may
be called luxuries in food, rather than upon what is necessary,
when they have money?-I think they do. The lower orders in
Shetland use a very large amount of tea, much more than is good
for them. It is very strong tea, and they take it very frequently
during the day-I think to an unwholesome extent. I think it
injures their health very considerably.
14,727. Is oatmeal still used to a great extent as an article of
diet?-It is used in the country districts, but I think not so much
in Lerwick. Here it is more loaf bread that is used.
14,728. In what form is oatmeal generally used in the houses of the
poorer Shetlanders?-I think it is chiefly in cakes, what would be
called scones in Scotland. I don't think it is so much in porridge,
so far as I am aware.
14,729. Is that the bulk of the diet of a fisherman's family?-That,
and fish and potatoes.
14,730. Don't you think that, taking the Shetlanders as a body,
they are as well off with regard to diet and clothing as any similar
class in Scotland?-I think the peasantry in the country are so, on
the whole. The lower orders in Lerwick differ considerably from
those in the country districts; there are more employments open
to them. I think the people in the country are better fed, on the
whole, than those in Lerwick. They enjoy more fresh air, and are a
better-off class of people, on the whole, than the lower orders here.
14,731. Has any special matter come within your observation
that you think of mentioning with regard to the system of barter
in other trades than hosiery?-Nothing very special. I think the
system of the men being compelled to fish to the landlords or
tacksmen on certain estates is a bad system, and should be
abolished. One of the many evils resulting from it is that very
often men don't know whether they have money or are in debt.
They may think they have means, and at settling time they may
discover they have nothing.
14,732. Would that not happen all the same if the creditor were
a merchant who had no connection with the land?-It might, it
arises from the system of long credits.
14,733. Have you known cases in which a man was under a false
impression as to the balance at his banker's, as one may say?-I
have. The other day a man in the country sent for me to visit his
wife professionally; and on leaving he told me he had not the
means in the house, but that he had sufficient to pay me, and good
deal more, at the merchant's. I afterwards saw the merchant with
whom he dealt, and he told me something similar. He also told me
to send the man's account to him, which I did; but a few weeks
afterwards the merchant wrote me that he had been mistaken,-
that he found, instead of the man having means in his hands, that
he was in debt, and he had had to advance him his rent, and that I
could not get my account paid in the meantime; but that he would
do his best to get it for me at a future time.
14,734. Is it a common thing to have accounts paid in that way
through the merchant?-Very common.
14,735. The merchant, in short, appears in many cases to transact
the whole of a man's business affairs?-Yes; he appears to pay his
rent very often, and to transact other business for him.
14,736. He pays accounts for him of all sorts?-Yes.
14,737. So that the man may know nothing at all of his money
affairs?-He may know little or nothing.
14,738. Do you speak of that as being a general thing within your
own knowledge?-Yes.
14,739. Have you formed any opinion as to the effect of that
system of dependence upon the merchant upon the character of
the people generally?-Yes; they are deficient in that sturdy
independence, if I may so express it, which characterizes the
peasantry throughout the rest of Scotland. The system fosters a
dependent, time-serving, deceitful disposition, and it cripples
enterprise.
14,740. Don't you find at the same time that the people are
generally very well able to take care of themselves in any ordinary
transaction? They have intelligence sufficient?-Yes; they are
sharp enough. The Shetland peasantry possess very considerable
intelligence; but there is in them a want of proper independence.
14,741. Do you mean that the position in which they are develops
a kind of cunning rather than acuteness or cleverness?-Yes; it
fosters a sort of low cunning. The system having been continued,
one might almost say, for centuries has fostered that element in
their character.
14,742. That you represent as being the principal defect in the
Shetland character?-It is one of the principal defects.
14,743. In other respects, do you not think they are a very superior
class to the ordinary run of peasantry in Scotland?-They are
careful and intelligent, and they are [Page 371] pretty well-bred.
They have a good deal of the <suaviter in modo>, more so than
the most of peasants but there is that want of proper independence
amongst them which I have mentioned, and they are of a very
conservative disposition. I mean by that, that there is a want of
desire to better themselves; for instance, to improve their houses,
or to produce better crops, or to educate their families. There is a
want of proper ambition among them; they are content to remain
very much as they are.
14,744. Do you mean to represent that as being the effect of the
system of barter which prevails?-I think it is partly the result of
the system of barter, and partly of the short leases which are given
of the land, and the want of any encouragement to improve their
land and houses.
14,745. As a rule, the houses in Shetland are still in a very
defective condition?-Very much so indeed. As far as we can
see, they are in the same condition as they have been for centuries.
14,746. Are there many districts in the country where the houses
still consist of a single room and have no chimney?-There are a
good many instances in which they want chimneys, but they have
generally two apartments-a but and a ben end, as it is called.
14,747. In such houses how is an exit furnished for the smoke?-
Just through holes in the roof called 'lums;' but I am glad to
observe a disposition to correct that in some districts. In many
houses lately I have noticed that they have built wooden chimneys,
and these improve the houses very much.
14,748. That has been so in Unst; but perhaps your professional
duties don't take you so far?-I have not been in Unst for some
years.
14,749. But in the course of your professional visits you have to
travel over the whole extent of the mainland?-Yes, over the most
of it.
14,750. Formerly, I understand, glazed windows were very rare in
Shetland?-Very rare.
14,751. Has there been a change in that respect in recent years?-
Yes, a very considerable change; but in some of the more primitive
districts glazed windows do not exist yet.
14,752. In that case, is the light only admitted by the door?-Only
by the door, and the lum or hole in the roof.
14,753. Are there many houses of that description in Shetland
still?-A good many. I am afraid I could not say accurately how
many.
14,754. Can you say whether these houses are inhabited by people
who are pretty well-to-do as peasants?-Yes; I believe many of
them are pretty well-to-do. They have bits of ground, and good
earnings from their fishing, and are free of debt; and probably
many of them have some means, although that is not known. It
is one peculiarity of their character, that they don't like it to be
known when they have money. I believe many of the men have
considerable means in the banks, but they conceal it.
14,755. Have you had occasion to observe that yourself?-I don't
know that I have had direct occasion to observe it; but I have heard
it, and I believe it to be the fact.
14,756. Is it the current belief among those with whom you
converse, that there are many of the fishermen who have means
of their own, which they conceal from other people?-Yes.
14,757. What would you say was the character of the Shetland
people with regard to sobriety?-I should say that, on the whole,
they are very sober and steady; and I may give an illustration of
that. It is well known that the Shetlanders as seamen are very
highly prized at ports in the south, such as Liverpool and Shields;
and very often a shipmaster, when desiring a crew, will put into
the advertisement 'Shetland men preferred.' I believe the reason
for that preference is not so much that the Shetlanders are better
seamen, although they are as good if not better than others, but
because they are more steady and more to be depended upon. For
instance, I have heard of a shipmaster who, if he had occasion to
land at Quebec or some port in America, and had to take a boat's
crew on shore with him to bring him back again at night, he would
select the Shetland men in his crew for that purpose if there were
any, as he was more sure of having them in waiting for him at the
time he wanted. That is not the result of personal observation, but
it is what I have heard on good authority. I may state further, as a
proof of their sobriety, that I have had occasion to examine it very
large number of Shetland seamen in my capacity as Admiralty
surgeon and agent. I have held that office for five and a half years,
and during that time I have examined probably between 500 and
600 men, and I almost never yet found any traces amongst them of
venereal disease, which is it very common thing amongst seamen.
That is a proof of the steady habits of the Shetland men.
14,758. I understand there are very few public-houses in
Shetland?-Very few. I think there is only one public-house
in the mainland of Shetland outside of Lerwick, but there are
several places holding grocers' licences where the men can buy
liquor.
14,759. Is there anything further you wish to say?-I don't know
that there is anything further, except that I may state it as my
opinion, that it would be better, both for merchants and their
customers, if the barter system were abolished and all transactions
were carried on in cash. I believe the system of long credits is
very injurious to all the parties concerned in it.
14,760. Do you think habits of independence would be fostered
among the Shetland people if they received their wages or other
payments in cash?-Yes; habits of independence and enterprise
would be fostered, and I believe the merchants would be able to
make better use of their money by turning over their capital more
frequently.
Lerwick, January 29, 1872, PETER MOODIE, examined.
14,761. Are you it seaman and fisherman in Lerwick?-I am.
14,762. Have you been for a number of years at the sealing and
whaling?-I have been at it since 1855, exclusive of two years
when I was south.
14,763. Did you always ship from Lerwick?-Always.
14,764. From what agent?-I have been from them all. The first
year I shipped was from Hay & Co., the next from Mr. Leask; and
I have been from Hay & Co., Mr. Leask, and Mr. George Reid Tait
ever since.
14,765. Did you get your outfit from Hay & Co. in 1855?-I did.
I was then a boy, and I was glad to get it from them, because I had
no person to give it to me except the agent.
14,766. Is it usual for green hands to get their outfit from the agent
who employs them?-Yes. I don't think they would get it from
any one else.
14,767. Did you pay off your outfit in the first year?-I did, and I
had something to get.
14,768. Have you always had something to get ever since?-No,
not every year. One year our ship had to come home because the
master had fallen from the mast-head, and I was not clear with the
agent upon voyage; but I shipped again to Davis Straits, and I did
clear it off before the end of the season.
14,769. Do you always get a large quantity of supplies from the
agent you ship with?-If I want it, I do, but if I like, I can get my
first month's advance and my half-pay ticket; only, I find that the
agents can supply me with everything I wish, and I have not taken
a halfpay ticket except in one year, and I sold it as soon as I got it.
I found, however, that I could get my goods as cheap from the
agents as from the grocer's shop; and besides, I found that when I
took my ticket to a grocer he did not like it. But the agents will
allow you to take whatever you want. I have seen me go into an
agent's shop in Lerwick about Christmas, and he would advance
me 10s. or 15s. or £1 if I wanted it, and I paid him up for it,
perhaps in the course of the [Page 372] next year; whereas I don't
think many of the grocers would have advanced me one penny.
14,770. Don't you think your wife could have got her goods
cheaper if she had had the money to pay for them?-No. I have
never found that I could get them any cheaper. I have had
groceries from a grocer's shop, and I have had the same things
from agents, and I have found them to be all the same price.
14,771. It was the practice some years settle your accounts at the
agent's shop, just in the same way that a fisherman settles with his
curer at the end of the season?-Yes, we did that regularly.
14,772. For some years back, however, you have had your wages
paid to you at the Custom House?-Yes.
14,773. Have you had them paid without any deduction except
your advance?-Yes, except that and the ship's bill. If I had taken
any goods from the agent before I went out, of course I got my
money, and I could go and pay him when I wanted. He did not
take it from me at the Custom House.
14,774. Did the agent ever seek to deduct the amount of his
account at the Custom House?-Never from me. I cannot
speak for anybody but myself.
14,775. Did you never see it attempted?-I did one year, but that
was before they understood exactly how it was to be done. They
had made out our account of wages so that the amount of their
account was taken off; but as soon as we came to the Shipping
Office, the shipping master told the agent that it was not to be
done in that way. He altered our accounts of wages so that the
money was all given to us, and then we went back to the agent's
shop and paid him.
14,776. Was that in 1867 or 1868?-I don't remember which it
was. I think it was in 1867.
14,777. Has any deduction of that sort been made since?-Never
from me.
14,778. Do you always go straight down from the Custom House
to the agent's office and settle your account with him?-I
generally do so, if I think the agent is in his office; but if he is
settling with some others besides, and has to wait with them at the
Custom House, I may wait until the next day and then go along
and settle it.
14,779. Do you generally go down from the Custom House in
company with the agent or the clerk who has been paying you?-
Generally I do. I think it is as well to pay my debt as long as I am
able, rather than to spend the money, and perhaps not be able to
pay afterwards.
14,780. Have you any difficulty in getting an engagement in a
good ship?-I have never had any difficulty in getting an
engagement from any of the agents I applied to, either from Hay
& Co. or Mr Leask or Mr Tait. If I told them I wished to go in
such a ship, they generally gave me a chance, if I was pleased
with the wages; and if the wages were low and I would not go, I
generally got an engagement in some other ship.
14,781. Did you ever get your outfit or supplies from some other
agent than the one you engaged with?-No. I never did that,
because I found I could have no advantage by it. I have found the
system better here than ever I did in the south, because here, if I
got my first month's advance, I could get a half-pay ticket along
with it; but in the south when I shipped, I got a month's advance,
but very seldom a half-pay ticket. In some places I have paid 2s.
in the pound, and sometimes 3s. in the pound, for cashing my note;
while here the agents don't charge any money for cashing an
advance note at all. In Glasgow I have paid 2s., and in the Sailors'
Home I have paid 1s. 6d. for that, but here I pay nothing to the
agents; at least I have never done it.
14,782. When you take an advance note, do you generally cash
it?-Yes, here I do.
14,783. Are you not content to take it out in advances of goods?-
If I require it I take it; and if not, I do not. They never asked me to
take it in that way. I have come into the office, and I said I wanted
my advance note cashed. It is not supposed to be paid until after
the ship leaves, but generally the practice with us has been to come
down as soon as soon as we have finished signing and ask to get it
cashed. Perhaps there is not enough money in the office at the
time, and they will give us £1, and say that we will get the rest
afterwards. However, I may be willing to take it until I can get it
all, and I came back again and get it all.
14,784. When you come down to settle you account at the office,
are you usually asked if you want any more goods?-When you
come down to settle you account at the office, are you usually
asked if you want any more goods?-I was never asked to go and
settle my account and to take more goods; but after the money was
laid down before me, and I went into the shop to settle any small
account I had, they would say, 'Do you want any clothes, Peter?',
and I would say 'No;' and there would be no more about it.
14,785. How do you do about the last payment of oil-money? Is it
paid at the Custom House?-Generally it is. It has been paid to
me for the last two years; but last year it was not, because I was
away when it was due. They asked me if I wished to go to the
Custom House with it, and I said I did not; that it was all the same
to me if I got the money when I cleared the ship's book.
14,786. Have you sometimes had a large sum to get for a last
payment of oil-money?-Yes. One year I got about £5 for it
from Mr Leask.
14,787. Do you take payment of that when it becomes due, or is
it not paid to you usually until you go to get engaged for the next
year's voyage?-I have never waited so long for it as the next
year's voyage.
14,788. When you get your second payment of oil-money, is it
just put into your hand, even although you have been running an
account?-Yes. If I have been running an account they lay down
the money to me, and then they tell me what my account is, and
pay it.
14,789. Do you continue to run an account with the agent after
getting your first payment?-Sometimes I do, but very seldom.
14,790. Do you pay in cash at the time for any supplies you get
after you have received your first payment?-Yes; whatever I get
I pay for them at the time.
14,791. Do you deal in any particular place for them?-Yes; in R.
& C. Robertson's.
14,792. You don't deal during winter with the agent who had
engaged you for the voyage?-When I have got an engagement
through a particular agent, I don't think it is right that I should
take the money from him and give it to another; and therefore I
get what I want for the voyage from the agent that I getting money
from.
14,793. But why do you prefer dealing with R. & C. Robertson in
the winter time?-Because Mr. Robertson and I were boys at
school together; and when I had a house of my own, he supplied
me with goods when I wanted them. That was my only reason for
preferring him to any one else.
14,794. But notwithstanding that, you prefer to go to the agent for
the supplies you want, when you are on your voyage?-Yes. I
have tried it both ways. I have tried taking money out, and buying
what I wanted with it, but I did not find that it made any
difference.
14,795. Is there not a sort of understanding among seamen who go
upon Greenland voyages that they are to take their supplies from
the agent who employs them?-I cannot say for anybody but
myself. There may be such an understanding, but I cannot say.
They may perhaps have asked me if I wanted some small things,
and they were there for me if I wanted them; but that was in
addition to my first month's advance, and they ran their risk of
being paid for them.
14,796. But is there not such an understanding among the men,
that they are to get their supplies from the agent who employs
them?-Yes, that is the general understanding among the men; but
the agent does not bind them in any way to take them. They never
did that to me; I don't know what they may have done to others.
14,797. Might the men not stand a chance of not having a good
engagement next year if they took their custom elsewhere?-That
is wherein the agent loses; [Page 373] at least I don't know if they
lose, but they run a chance of losing when the men go off to
another agent, because they have then to lie out of their money. If
they have made advances to the amount of £3 or £4 to a boy who
has only 15s. or 16s. a month, and who will only be out three
months on the voyage, they cannot get their money from him then;
and perhaps they may never get it, because the boy may go upon a
south voyage, and then they lose sight of him. There have been
cases of that kind which have come within my own knowledge. I
was shipwrecked in 1869, and young lad who was along with me
told me he owed 10s. to Mr. Tait. We came back to Shetland
again, but he went south two months afterwards, and I don't know
if Mr. Tait has been paid yet. The boy has not come back to
Shetland again, at any rate.
14,798. But that was not the question I was asking you. What I
asked was, if you did not take your custom to the merchant who
employed you, would you stand a chance of not getting a good
engagement next year?-I have never had any difficulty in that
way. I have got an engagement through Mr. Leask, and taken £3,
2s. out of his shop for a voyage of six weeks and a few days; and I
came back again next year, and got a ship the same as ever. I went
in the same ship again.
14,799. Is there anything more you wish to say?-I went out
for Mr. Tait last year. He has resigned the business now to his
brother-in-law and another, but I have no doubt I shall go back to
the shop and get ship from them; or I could get one from Messrs.
Hay the same as ever, if they had any ships this year.
14,800. Have you ever paid a subscription to the Shipwrecked
Mariners' Fund?-Yes.
14,801. Have you ever got anything out of it?-Yes, twice; both
from Mr. Leask and Mr. Tait.
14,802. Had you much to get?-The first time I had anything to
get was after I had been paying in two years, and I got 30s. when I
came back.
14,803. What did you lose that year?-I lost different things that I
could hardly name.
14,804. Did you get the things replaced?-No.
14,805. Did you get cash for the 30s.?-Yes.
14,806. Was that cash put into your account?-No, I got the
money paid down to me.
14,807. Was it paid down in the same way the next time?-Yes.
At that time I got it from Mr. Leask. In fact I got it from him
before the money was actually payable, because I was going south.
14,808. When was that?-In 1864. I was wrecked in the 'Emma,'
and I wished to get south; but I had not money enough, and I went
to Mr. Leask, and he advanced it to me.
14,809. How much does your outfit generally cost at the beginning
of the year?-I could not exactly say. Some years it will be more,
and some less. There are some of the men who have people that
make things for them, but others have got nobody to do that, and
therefore they have generally more to get from the agents.
14,810. Do you generally lay out £1 or £2 in that way before you
start upon your voyage?-Yes; and sometimes £4 or £5.
14,811. Is that an unusual sum?-Yes.
14,812. Who insures the outfit?-The agent generally insures it for
his own advantage, so that if the ship is lost he gets his money.
14,813. But they charge the insurance to you?-Yes, they charge
the insurance to us if we tell him to insure it. For a good many
years I told the agent to insure for me, but I have not lost any ship.
When I did lose a ship I have not been charged for it; at least if I
was, it was not with my knowledge.
Lerwick, January 29, 1872, Daniel Inkster, examined.
14,814. Are you a seaman living in Lerwick?-Yes. I have been
here for the last two years. Before then I lived in the North Isles,
on the property which is now in Mr. Walker's hands.
14,815. Have you been at the sealing and whaling for a number of
years?-Yes. I have been there for the last fifteen years, but not
every year. I was at the ling fishing for about seven years during
that time, at Cullivoe, where Mr. Peter Sandison lives.
14,816. Why did you leave Yell?-I was one of Major Cameron's
tenants, and I was put away by his factor, Mr. Walker. He offered
us leases but of course we knew it was not in our power to take
them.
14,817. Why was that?-Because our farms were so small; and
when we had to take one-fifth of them for rye-grass, that made
them a great deal less. Then the scattald was taken away from
us; but we still had to pay our rent, for all that.
14,818. Were you offered a lease?-Yes; but the lease was all on
his side, and there was nothing on our side at all.
14,819. When you were in Yell, were you bound to fish for any
one?-No. There was no binding at all.
14,820. Where did you get your supplies?-From Mr. Sandison.
We always fished for him, and got our supplies from him. I was
three years under Mr. Walker. During the first two years I paid my
rent, but in the third year we had either to take his lease or go and I
knew that I was not able to do it. He said to me that I would have
to leave; but I did not know where to go, and I had a family to
support. The last year I was on that property I came a little short
of my rent, and I wanted him to wait for it until I came down to
Lerwick; but he said he was not to wait any longer. He asked me
what means I had to give him, and I said I had not much means at
all. I said if he chose to take the crop he might do it, but that I
would be left to starve afterwards. He took the crop at his own
hand, and never put a value upon anything at all; but he told me
that if I was not off the ground by such a time he would put me off.
He went away to the south at that time, and when Candlemas came
round I got a room in Lerwick before he came back. He has done
that to a great many more besides me.
14,821. Then you had to leave because you had not paid your
rent?-He got the corn and potatoes for the rent.
14,822. But you did not give him money; and if you had paid
your rent he would not have taken your crop?-No; but many a
proprietor has to wait for month or a couple of months for that,
and he sometimes does not get it even then.
14,823. Were you not fishing for Mr. Sandison then?-Yes; but
there was a very small fishing that year.
14,824. Had Mr. Sandison paid your rent before?-No; I had paid
it.
14,825. You had not been at the whale fishing for several years
before that?-No; but I have been for the last two years. I have
gone to it since I have been living in Lerwick.
14,826. Whom do you ship with?-For the last two years I have
gone out for Mr. Leask.
14,827. Did you require an outfit when you went two years ago?-
Yes. I got it from Mr. Leask. It cost about £5.
14,828. What were your wages?-£2, 5s.
14,829. Were you both at the sealing and whaling that year?-Yes;
I went both voyages in the same ship.
14,830. Were you due a large account to Mr. Leask at the end of
the year?-About £16 or £17.
14,831. Was that for supplies to your family?-Yes.
14,832. Had you any money to get for your voyage?-Yes. I had
£12 to get in the first year.
14,833. Had you £28 of earnings for the year?-Yes, for the first
and second payments.
14,834. Was that money paid to you at the Custom House?-Yes.
14,835. How much of it?-The whole of it; and then I went down
and paid what I was due at the shop after I had been paid off at the
Custom House.
14,836. Who went down from the Custom House with you?-
There were a good many more than me going [Page 374] down,-
men who had been settled with at the same time.
14,837. Did you all go down together to Mr. Leask's?-Yes.
14,838. Who settled with you there?-Mr. Robertson.
14,839. Did you go down with him?-No. One of Mr. Leask's
men came up to the Custom House and paid us there, and when
we came back Mr. Robertson settled with us at the shop. The
person who settled with us at the Custom House was either
Andrew Jamieson or John Jamieson, I don't remember which.
14,840. Did he not go down to the shop with you?-No.
14,841. Did he say anything to you about going down to the
shop?-No.
14,842. Had you seen Mr. Robertson or any of Mr. Leask's people
before you went up to the Custom House?-Yes, one of them told
us we had to go there, and that he would be there to settle with us.
14,843. Did he tell you anything else?-He did not tell me
anything.
14,844. Had he arranged with you before about meeting him at the
Custom House for the settlement?-Yes, either the night before or
that morning.
14,845. Had he sent for you to tell you about that?-No; we were
waiting there for a settlement.
14,846. Did he tell you at that time how much your account was
with Mr. Leask?-Yes.
14,847. And did he tell you that you would have to pay it when
you got your money?-Yes.
14,848. Accordingly you did pay it when you got your money, as
you had been told?-Yes.
14,849. Did you get an engagement from Mr. Leask in the
following year?-Yes.
14,850. Had you an account with him in the same way then, and
some money to get at the end of the season?-Yes.
14,851. Were you told in the same way that you would be settled
with, and that you would have your account to pay to Mr. Leask
after you got your money?-Yes.
14,852. Did you come down from the Custom House with Mr.
Jamieson then?-I did not.
14,853. You had been told before that you had to go down to the
shop?-Yes.
14,854. And you did go down and pay your money?-Yes.
14,855. Had the rest of the men been told the same thing, that they
were to come down and pay their accounts after receiving their
money at the Custom House?-Yes, all the men who were in town
that day.
14,856. Did you get any of your supplies anywhere else than at Mr.
Leask's?-No; not when I was in his employment.
14,857. Why not?-Because I thought I could get my things just as
cheap from him as I could get them anywhere else; and another
reason was, that if I was short of money I could go and ask him for
a supply, or for a little money; whereas if I had gone to any of the
small groceries in the town they would not have been able to give
me that.
14,858. Where do you get your supplies in the winter time when
you are at home?-We generally take couple of bolls of meal from
Mr. Leask and pay for them, or get an advance of them if no trade
is doing in the town, or if any of us are in bad health.
14,859. Do you sometimes get your supplies elsewhere in
winter?-Generally if we have any money, we can buy them at
the cheapest market. There is no particular place where we go
to.
14,860. Do you sometimes find a cheaper market somewhere
else?-No. Mr. Leask can give an article as cheap as anybody in
Lerwick can do. There is a Mr. Fraser, a grocer in Lerwick, from
whom we got some things in the dead of winter. We take them
from him during the week, and pay him on Saturday night for
them.
14,861. Are his things as good and cheap as Mr. Leask's?-Just
the same. He only charges us the currency.
14,862. Do you employ yourself at any trade during the winter?-I
work at anything I have the chance of, when my health permits
me. If I get the chance of discharging vessels, or doing a day's
work, or anything of that kind, I take it; or sometimes we go to
the fishing in a small boat.
14,863. Do you always subscribe to the Shipwrecked Mariners'
Fund when you go the whale fishing?-Yes. I have been nineteen
years in that Fund.
14,864. Did you ever get anything out of it?-I have got out of it
twice. I was cast away in 1863 at Davis Straits, and I had £2, 15s.
to get then. I got it in cash from Mr. George Reid Tait. The
second time was when I lost a small boat by a storm at sea.
14,865. Were you at the fishing at the time?-No, the boat was
secured, but the water came in and took her away. I applied to
the agent, and he valued the boat, and sent the money to me.
14,866. Were you running an account with the agent at that
time?-No.
14,867. Were you running an account with the agent at the other
time when you got money from the Society?-The first time I was.
I had an account with Mr. Reid Tait then, and I got the money
from him which I had to get from the Society.
14,868. Do you know whether you pay insurance for your outfit
when you get one?-I have done so, but not during the last two
years.
14,869. Why?-Because I always insured so much on the voyage
myself, perhaps upon £7 or £8.
14,870. Why do you do that?-In case the ship is lost, and then of
course we get that paid to us until the insurance is taken off.
14,871. Who do you arrange that with?-With the agent who takes
out the insurance for us-Mr. Leask or any of the agents. They
take 1s. 8d. per £1 for insuring.
14,872. Is that for insuring the ship?-Yes.
14,873. Then it is not the agent's advance to you that is insured?-
Perhaps they insure that themselves, but I don't know whether we
pay for it or not.
14,874. Is the insurance you have mentioned the only one you
pay?-Yes; the only one I pay, to my knowledge.
14,875. Do you get any writing for that insurance?-It has never
been asked.
14,876. Has it ever been offered to you?-No; it never was offered
that I have been aware of, because we always had to go to the ship
and leave here to go south. Therefore I wrote to my wife to go to
the merchant about the insurance.
14,877. Do you not join the ship at Lerwick?-Yes; but we are
landed in Shetland from the sealing, and the vessel goes south and
discharges her oil, and then they send for us to go south and join
the ship there. That has been done during the last two years.
14,878. When you get your wife to insure for you, where does she
go?-She goes to Mr. Leask.
14,879. Do you not know whether Mr. Leask charges you with an
insurance upon your outfit?-No; at least I never was sensible of
it.
14,880. Do you not read over your account when you settle it?-
Yes, but I never observed that in it.
14,881. Is there no sum for insurance charged in it?-Not to my
knowledge; but it may have escaped my notice.
14,882. How does your wife pay for the insurance which you
effect?-I pay for it myself at the end of the voyage.
14,883. Who told you about the insurance first?-Mr. Leask or
some of his people. I don't know any of them in particular; but
of course we have always done it.
Lerwick, January 29, 1872, ARTHUR JOHNSON, examined.
14,884. Are you a tenant and fisherman at Colafirth, near
Ollaberry?-I am.
14,885. Do you go to the ling fishing every year?- [Page 375]
Yes. I was one year a hired boy, and I have been thirty-three years
a sharesman.
14,886. On whose land are you a tenant?-On that of Mr. Gideon
Anderson, Ollaberry. It is let on tack to Mr. John Anderson, his
brother, and to Mr. John Robertson, Lerwick.
14,887. How do you pay your rent?-We pay our rent at Hillswick
to Mr. John Anderson.
14,888. Is that done when you settle for your fish?-We have to go
a day or two after we have settled for our fishing, and pay our rent
to Mr. Anderson. We get a line from the man we have settled with
and go to Mr. Anderson with it, and then he writes us out a receipt
for the rent. We do not get the money to give to him at all.
14,889. Do you settle with Mr. William Irvine at Ollaberry?-Yes.
14,890. Are you bound to sell your fish to him?-He is only the
factor for Messrs. Anderson & Co. We are bound to sell our fish
to them.
14,891. Are you not at liberty to sell your fish to any other person
you please?-Not in the summer time. We have not had liberty to
do so for the last four years.
14,892. How do you know that?-Because Mr. John Anderson has
told us so himself.
14,893. Have you wished to sell your summer fish to any other
person?-Yes. If I was at liberty I could have an advantage by it.
I have cured my own fish for nineteen years.
14,894. What advantage would you have by doing that?-We sell
to more advantage when we are at liberty, but now we get less
from Mr. Anderson than we got before for our salt fish, and we get
from £1 to 30s. per ton less than he paid to other men who were
free men. Last year he paid the free men £22, and he paid me £20,
10s. for salt fish.
14,895. Was it Mr. Irvine who did that?-Yes. He settled
according to Mr. Anderson's order. Mr. Irvine is only the
factor, and keeps the shop.
14,896. Were you not free to sell your cured fish to any person you
pleased?-I did not think it.
14,897. But probably your cured fish were not of such good quality
as those which brought £22?-I would put my character for having
good fish against that of any man, because we attended to the
curing of our fish ourselves. We only had a boy for washing, but
we split and cured them ourselves, and we paid them all the
attention we could. I know that the quality was good, because
those who knew good fish told us so and I also knew it myself.
14,898. But when you got £20, 10s. offered to you, why did you
not take your fish to another market if you thought you could get
a better price for them?-It was not in my power then, because the
fish were in Leith; they had been shipped there.
14,899. Did you deliver your dried fish without knowing what
price you were to get for them?-Yes.
14,900. Why did you do that?-We must do it. We had no cellars
of our own, and we had to put them into Mr. Anderson's cellar.
14,901. Why did you not get the price fixed before you delivered
them?-Because that is not the practice. When we deliver our
fish, they tell us they don't know the price.
14,902. Did you not see the bills of sale after the fish were sold in
Leith?-No, I never see them.
14,903. Might you not have seen them if you had asked for it?-I
never asked for it.
14,904. Then you have no reason to believe that you got less for
your fish than they actually brought when sold in Leith?-I cannot
say what the Leith price was.
14,905. But you could have seen the bills of sale if you had asked
for them?-I do not think I would have been allowed to see the
bills of sale.
14,906. You cannot be sure of that unless you had asked for
them?-No, I cannot be sure of that; but I don't believe they
would have been shown to me.
14,907. Why did you not ask for them?-I don't know.
14,908. Were you afraid to do that?-No, I was not afraid; but it
did not occur to me to do so. I know that last year I was stopped
from selling my fish, and free men were paid 8s. 6d., while I was
only paid 8s. for them.
14,909. Was that for your green fish?-Yes.
14,910. Then what fish were you selling dry?-Ling, tusk, and
cod.
14,911. Were these your winter fish?-No, they were the summer
fish.
14,912. But I thought you were bound to deliver your fish green to
Mr. Anderson?-No. We had been in the practice of salting them
before we delivered them, and we continued to do so until last
year; but he stopped us from salting them then.
14,913. I thought you said you had been bound for four years?-
Yes. It is four years since we were bound to fish for him regularly;
he got the tack then.
14,914. Have you been fishing for Mr. Anderson for these four
years?-Yes; three years we delivered the fish to him salt, and
one year green.
14,915. Then all you were bound to do was to deliver your fish to
him, either salt or green?-Yes.
14,916. You could cure them or not, as you liked?-Yes, for the
first three years; but this year he would not allow us to cure them.
14,917. Was that because the quality of your cured fish was not
good?-The fish were good.
14,918. Did he not assign that to you as the reason?-No. When I
was told not to salt the fish last season, I went to him and asked
him if that was on account of bad fish, and he said, No, he could
not say that it was.
14,919. Did he give you any reason for not allowing you to
continue to cure your own fish?-Very little.
14,920. Did he give any reason at all?-He said that other
fishermen in the neighbourhood were thinking that they might
be allowed to cure their fish as well.
14,921. Do you think fishermen generally can cure their own fish
as well as when they are cured by a factor who gives his whole
time to it?-I think so, provided they would pay a little attention to
it themselves.
14,922. Do you get your supplies at the shop at Ollaberry?-Yes;
or from Mr. Anderson's factor at the fishing station at Hamnavoe.
14,923. Can you get these supplies as cheap at Ollaberry as you
can get them anywhere else?-Yes. He made an arrangement last
year that the meal was to be all one price, whether it was got at the
station or at Ollaberry. We got it a little cheaper by taking it from
Ollaberry the year before; but he made the regulation last year that
it was to be all one price.
14,924. But do you get it as cheap there as you could get it from
any other shop in the country?-No. If we had our money we
could get it a little cheaper from Lerwick, or from other places.
14,925. How do you know that?-Because I buy some things
from Lerwick, such as meal and tea, and I sometimes get the meal
a little cheaper, according as the market there is high or low.
14,926. Have you any pass-books or accounts to show the prices
you pay for the articles you get?-No. I kept a pass-book for a
year or so, but I rather thought the prices were too high, and it
annoyed me to look at it, and so I gave it up.
14,927. Did you think the prices were higher because you had the
pass-book?-No. I thought they were rather too high, at any rate.
14,928. Did it not annoy you quite as much to hear the prices in
your account read over to you?-When my account was read over
at the time when I paid it, I knew that the price was high; but I do
not think there was anything in the account except what I had had.
14,929. Is the price of your meal mentioned to you at the time
when you get it at Ollaberry?-Very seldom.
14,930. Do you ask to know the price?-Sometimes we ask, and
sometimes we do not.
14,931. Does the price vary throughout the season?-[Page 376]
Yes, sometimes it does, according, to the rise and fall in the
market.
14,932. It is not sold at one price all the year round at that shop?-
No.
14,933. Do you buy your own boats at Ollaberry?-I had a boat of
my own until four years ago; since then I have had a hired boat.
The boat hire is £2, 10s. I got my lines ordered for me from the
Glasgow market, because I thought I got them a little cheaper in
that way. 21/4 lb. lines cost me 1s. 11d., including freight and
everything.
14,934. Do you get any 2-lb. lines?-No; but we can get them at
Ollaberry. They charge 2s. for them there. A 21/4 lb. line would be
charged 2s. 3d. there if paid in cash, and 2s. 6d. if marked down to
be paid for by instalments.
14,935. Can you show me any account for the lines you get from
Glasgow?-No; it is five years since got them from there.
14,936. Were the prices you have mentioned as being paid for
lines at Ollaberry the same as you would have paid there five
years ago?-Yes, the price has been the same. The lines I am
using now are the same lines that I got from the market for myself.
14,937. Did you buy a great quantity of them at that time?-I
bought 25 buchts.
14,938. Did you get them for yourself only, or was it to sell to your
neighbours as well?-It was for myself only.
14,939. Is there anything else you wish to say?-With regard to the
fishing, I would like liberty to sell my fish to any man who would
give me the highest price for them, or to cure for myself. We had
some casks for storing salt, and we broke them down, and parted
the staves among the partners to whom they belonged. Then there
was a fish vat which is my own, and it is lying on the beach, and
no man to buy it from me. It has been a loss to me altogether.
14,940. Was that in consequence of the intimation that you were
to fish for your landlord?-Yes, and that I was to stop salting my
fish.
14,941. Can you not get all your supplies at a cheaper shop than
Ollaberry if you choose?-I could get them from other parties
cheaper, but I don't have the money in my hands to get them
cheaper at present.
14,942. Can you not get the money as an advance upon your
fishing?-No. We could get a little, but not to a great extent.
14,943. Could you not get as much as would buy you a boll of
meal?-Yes, but that would not serve for boat for the fishing
season. We would need nearly two sacks.
14,944. Could you not get an advance of money upon your fishing
large enough to buy that in Lerwick?-I don't think it; but there
are other things required besides that. There are tea and sugar, and
various other things that are necessary for the use of the men when
they are at the fishing.
14,945. Do you think you would buy any cheaper if you had the
money to buy these things with yourself, instead of getting them
on credit from the merchant?-Yes, I would be cheaper.
14,946. Would you be any better off if your money was paid to you
fortnightly or monthly?-Yes, if I was at liberty to sell my fish to
any one who would give me the highest price for them; but if I am
bound to give my fish to any particular man, and he gives me no
higher price than he pleases, I would be no better off.
14,947. From whom did the free men you mentioned get 8s. 6d. for
their green fish while you only got 8s?-From Mr. Anderson. That
was at the settlement this year.
14,948. How many free men got that price from him?-There
were four free men in that boat, and two tenants; but the six men
that were in my boat were all tenants.
14,949. Did your boat get 8s. per cwt. for all the fish of the
season?-Yes; and the others got 8s. 6d.
14,950. Did the two men in the other boat who were tenants get 8s.
6d. also?-I think they all got the same.
14,951. Where did the four men who were not tenants come
from?-They live at Colafirth. They bought their boat and lines,
and agreed to pay for them. We asked for 3d. per cwt. extra
because the lines we used were our own, but they would not give
it.
14,952. Do these four men not live on Mr. Anderson's land?-
Two of them live on his land, and two on Busta.
14,953. If two of them live on Anderson's land, how are they
free?-They are not free. They sell their fish to him.
14,954. But you said four of the men were free: where do they
live?-They live at Colafirth, on the property of Mr. Gifford of
Busta.
14,955. Do all the four free men live there?-Yes.
14,956. Was there any reason why they got 6d. more than you,
except that they were free men and lived on the Busta property?-
No; I knew of no other reason.
14,957. Did they not buy their boat and lines?-Yes, they had their
own lines, but the lines we had belonged to ourselves too.
14,958. Was it said that they got a higher price because they had
their own boat and lines?-Yes.
14,959. Did Mr. Irvine say so?-Mr. Irvine did not settle with
these men. It was Mr. John Anderson himself.
14,960. Did he say that he gave them the higher price because the
boat and lines were their own?-Yes.
14,961. He did not say it was because they were free men?-No,
he did not say that; but had they not been free men, I don't think
they would have got it.
14,962. Have any men who live on Mr. Anderson's estate got boats
and lines of their own?-Yes. I think there is one man who has
got a boat and lines.
14,963. Did he get 8s. 6d. too?-I don't know what he got.
Lerwick, January 29, 1872, GILBERT SCOLLAY, recalled.
14,964. I understand you wish to give some additional evidence to
what you gave when you were examined at Brae?-Yes. In the
first place I spoke as if the party I have from Lunnasting parish
was still in my house but it is four months since that party was
removed to another house, at the instance of the Board of Lunacy.
14,965. How many different prices of meal are there at Voe,
according to the weight sold?-A party taking a whole sack will
get it at a less price; when divided and subdivided, the meal rises
in price.
14,966. What is the lowest price just now?-I have not bought any
lately, and I cannot tell; but there has been flour sold lately for
fifteenpence a peck.
14,967. Is there only one price for meal at Vidlin?-Yes; only one
price for the same meal, whether you take it in large or in small
quantities. That has been my experience.
14,968. Have you any statement to make about the rise in price at
Voe according to the southern market?-Yes. I have been told
that Mr. Adie has said that it should rise not only in his cellar, but
in his book too, according to the market in the south. Henry
Manson, post-runner between Voe and Lunna says he heard him
say so.
14,969. But that is not what you know yourself; it is only what
you have heard from other people?-I have heard Mr. Adie say so
myself, that it would rise in price both in his cellar and in his book.
14,970. Do you mean that it rises with the southern market?-Yes;
but at Vidlin it does not rise until the meal that has been bought at
a certain price has been finished. Mr. Sutherland has told me that
a quantity of meal bought in by Mr. Robertson at a certain price
remained at the same price until the last of it was sold, and the
same with the next parcel.
14,971. When you have pass-books at Voe, is the price generally
entered in the pass-book at the time when you get the meal?-No;
it is not entered until [Page 377] settlement, when it is compared
with their book, as my pass-book will show. There are several
quantities of meal in it for which no price is entered.
14,972. Is it entered at settlement at one price for the whole
season, or at different prices?-I cannot tell. If what they say is
true, it is entered at the highest market price if the market has
risen, because they say it rises in their book as well as in their
cellar.
14,973. You have produced several pass-books to me. Is that
[showing] a pass-book of your father's in account with Mr. Adie
at Voe?-Yes.
14,974. Have you carried through some of the transactions for your
father at Mr. Adie's shop?-Yes.
14,975. I see here an entry on April 21, 1868, '24 lbs. meal at 5s.
3d.:' who made that entry?-It was made at the shop, not by me.
14,976. Here [showing] is another entry, 'April 25, one lispund
Indian meal, 5s. 6d.:' who made that?-My father perhaps made
some entries in the book himself when he got things, and when the
pass-book was not sent to the shop.
14,977. Was that entry made by your father?-The entry of 24 lbs.
meal at 5s. 3d. is not by my father. I think the other is by him.
14,978. There is another entry, June 30, of 'Indian meal, 2s.:' who
made that entry?-It is not in my father's writing. It has been
made at Voe.
14,979. There is another entry, 'July 1, one boll Indian meal, 16s.
6d.:' who made that?-It is my father's.
14,980. There is another, 'Dec. 6, Indian meal, 1/2 lisp. 2s.?'-Yes.
14,981. That account has been settled in January 1869, you having
given 21 yards cloth at 3s. 6d.?-Yes.
14,982. Have you any doubt that all the things entered in that
account were got by your father?-No. They were all got and
settled for.
14,983. The next account was settled on March 17, 1870: have you
any doubt that all the things entered before that date were got by
your father at Voe?-No, they were all received.
14,984. On November 25 he got 1/4 gallon oil at 6d.: would that be
sillock oil?-Perhaps it was.
14,985. In that settlement your father is credited with 26 yards
cloth, which comes to £3, 13s. 8d. There is something else that
comes to 1s., being £3, 14s. 8d. due to him, and £2, 19s. 4d. to Mr.
Adie, leaving a balance in your father's favour of 15s. 4d.?-Yes.
14,986. Mr. Adie takes a discount for cash of 1s. 6d.: does that
mean that he charged 1s. 6d. of discount on the 15s. 4d. which he
was to pay to your father?-Yes.
14,987. Why was that?-I don't know; but it was a common thing,
that when he gave cash he gave so much less for the cloth.
14,988. Was it the rule that all cloth was to be settled with by
goods?-The price was 5 per cent. less if paid in cash.
14,989. But was it the rule that all the cloth was to be paid for by
goods?-No. They just had to take the goods for convenience; but
the wool was my father's, and I could go to whom he pleased with
it.
14,990. The account for 1870 in the book is still unsettled?-It
has been settled lately, and my father's account is now in another
book.
14,991. Do you think the things that are marked in that book were
got at the prices which are entered there?-Yes, so far as I know,
they were. There was no dispute with my father, either about price
or anything else.
14,992. We will go to your own books. Is this [showing] your
pass-book with Mr. Adie at Voe from 1869 downwards?-Yes.
14,993. Were all the articles entered there got by you at the prices
which are there marked?-Yes.
14,994. I see that in June and July 1869 there is some meal and
flour entered in quantities, without any price being marked?-Yes.
14,995. How did that happen?-They know best themselves why
they did not enter the prices. I cannot explain it.
14,996. I show you an entry of one quarter boll Indian meal: is that
in Mr. Adie's handwriting?-I don't know; it will be in the writing
of some of Adie's men. All the entries in that book were written
in the shop.
14,997. Has that account been settled?-Not yet.
14,998. Is that the reason why the price has not been put in?-No,
I should not say that was the reason.
14,999. Is this [showing] a continuation of the other account?-
Yes.
15,000. Have you got all the articles that are marked in this
book?-Yes.
15,001. Did you get all the articles entered there at the prices
which are marked?-Yes, I got them at the prices marked when
there is any price; but there is a sack of pease-meal entered
without any price to it.
15,002. I see an entry on May 30, 'To dog licence, 5s.; by cash, 2s.
6d.:-2s. 6d.:' what does that mean?-I had 2s. 6d. that I paid as
part of the dog licence, and Mr. Adie charged me with the rest.
15,003. Did you pay that licence through Mr. Adie?-Yes.
15,004. Does he transact all your business for you in that way?-
Yes.
15,005. Does he pay your accounts for you?-No; he never pays
any accounts for me, that I know of.
15,006. Did he only pay your dog licence for you?-He only paid
one half of it. He might have paid the whole if I had asked him to
do it.