1306. Did Mouat know that you had sold that beast to
Jamieson?-Yes, and as soon as he heard about it he sent for me,
and told me what he was determined to do, and that I might
prepare myself for going.
1307. How long was that before he failed?-I think I only paid
one year after that.
1308. Do you mean that there was only one settlement with him
after that?-Yes.
1309. When you were making your settlements, I suppose it was
the previous Whitsunday and Martinmas rents that you settled for
at each?-Yes.
1310. How long would it be before the settlement that you sold the
horse?-I sold it after the settlement for the year. Mouat knew
that I had a pony to sell and he wanted me to give it to him. I said
that I would give him the pony as he told me I was bound to do it
but he must bring me some meal, because it was a very bad
season, and I could not sow down my ground. He would not bring
me any meal and therefore I resolved that, whatever might happen
to me whether I should be put out or not, I would sell my animal
and procure a living for my house; and I did so.
1311. At what time of the year did you sell it?-In March.
1312. That would be shortly after the settlement?-Yes.
1313. How long was it after that when Mouat told you that you
must leave?-Just about eight days-as soon as he heard it.
1314. But he did not turn you off?-No.
1315. Could he not have turned you off at the following
Whitsunday term?-Yes; he could have turned me off then.
1316. But he did not do it?-No; because I went to the proprietor,
Mr. Bruce, and told him what I had done, and what Mouat was
going to do to me. I don't know what took place between Mr.
Bruce and Mouat about that, but I did not get my warning?
1317. What did Mr. Bruce say to you about it when you saw
him?-He said very little. I went to him, and also to the factor,
Mr. Irvine, and told him about it. I got no satisfaction at the time,
and therefore I expected I would be turned off; but in the end I was
not put off the ground.
1318. That would be in the spring of 1870?-Yes.
1319. Have you paid any rent to Mr. Irvine or to Mr Bruce this
year?-Yes; I paid my rent about six weeks ago.
1320. To whom do you deliver your fish now?-To any one I
choose.
1321. Who did you fish for last season?-For Mr. Robertson.
1322. Where do you get your goods now?-I can get them from
Mr. Robertson. He bought Mouat's store in Channerwick.
1323. Do you still get your goods there?-Yes.
1324. Are you bound to get them there?-We are not bound
particularly, because if we ask Mr. Robertson for a few shillings of
money during the time we are fishing for him, we will get them.
1325. Have you got money from him since he took that store?-
Yes; I got my rent from him this year.
1326. You mean, that you got money from him to pay your rent?-
Yes.
1327. Can you mention the name of any person who [Page 27]
was turned away for selling his fish or the produce of his farm to
another merchant than during the seventeen years he held the
tack?-I cannot mention any one particularly, except an old man
who was turned off his farm; but that was a good while ago. His
name was Henry Sinclair, in Levenwick. That occurred about the
beginning of Mouat's tack.
1328. What was he turned out for?-For an 'outfall' about some
fishing.
1329. What had he done with his fish?-It was his son that the
thing occurred with.
1330. What had his son done?-His son got into some sort of
dispute with Mouat about fishing, I can not tell what the cause of it
was exactly; but Mouat gave him warning, and sent him off the
property that he was staying on. Sinclair took a little bit of
scattald outside of the premises, and built a house on it, and he is
living there in a very mean condition.
1331. Did the other people in the neighbourhood take that case as
a warning?-Yes.
1332. It frightened them, did it?-Yes; Shetland people are of that
nature, to be frightened by such things-very much to their hurt.
1333. Do you know of any other person who was turned off in the
same way?-No, I don't remember of any other person being
turned off; because Mouat had no occasion to turn them off. They
did not transgress his law.
1334. Do you know of any other who was threatened to be turned
off?-Every one of us was threatened, the next man was
threatened, and we were all threatened; so that we were frightened.
1335. Do you know of any person who sold his fish or his beasts or
eggs to another than Mouat?-Towards the end of his tack, in the
very last fishing when I fished for him, my family and I were in a
state of starvation for want of meal. I have seen me out at sea
under him for two days and part of a third, on two pounds of meal;
and I saw that I must make some effort for a living, Accordingly I
went to another store close by and gave them some of the fish I
had caught, and got some meal from them. If Mouat's tack had
continued longer, I have no doubt I would have been punished for
that; but as it was nearly broken, he did not have it in his power to
do me any hurt.
1336. Did Mouat speak to you about that?-Yes. There came a
letter from him to the people in the neighbourhood, because some
of them did take their liberty and go away.
1337. Was that in the last year of his tack?-Yes.
1338. What kind of letters were these?-They were letters from
Mouat telling them not to prepare their turf or anything to keep
them in their farms, because they had their warning to go. I got a
letter as well as the rest.
1339. Did it refer to the fish that you had sold to the other
merchant?-Yes.
1340. Have you got that letter?-I don't know. I don't know what
became of it. I think I burnt it; but there ought to be letters in the
neighbourhood that came from Mouat at that time.
1341. You said you did not get all the goods you wanted at
Mouat's shop. What were the goods you asked for and could not
get?-I generally asked for little tea.
1342. Could you not get that?-Yes, I always got that, and I could
get a bit of cotton or anything out of the store that I wanted.
1343. Did you get the tackle you wanted for your fishing from
him?-Yes.
1344. And clothes for your family?-I could get clothes for my
family if I asked for them. Sometimes I did get a little clothing
from him.
1345. Was it principally meal and tea that you got from Mouat?-
Yes; and if his meal had been grain, it would have been good
enough; but as it was, it was not fit for human food.
1346. You mean that it was not of good quality?-It was not; and
we paid at the dearest rate for it.
1347. How do you know that?-Because we heard it from the
storeman who sold it to us. Mouat had a storeman in the shop; and
when we got the meal from him, he told us what the price of it
was.
1348. Had you a pass-book?-We sometimes had a pass-book, but
it was not always taken there; and besides, the storeman was not
very willing to be bothered with it.
1349. Did you ever ask the price of meal and tea in Lerwick?-
Yes.
1350. Did you ever buy these articles in Lerwick when you
happened to have some money?-Yes, sometimes when I had any
money I did so; but it was very little money that ever I had,
because where could we get it, when we could get no money at all
for our fishing?
1351. Have you bought these articles in Lerwick within the last
two or three years?-Yes.
1352. Did you find the Lerwick meal better and cheaper than what
you got from Mouat?-Yes; the Lerwick meal was grain, but
Mouat's meal was nothing but the refuse of the worst that was
given to us poor fishing slaves.
1353. Then the complaint you have to make is only about what is
past?-Yes; about how I was treated during the seventeen years I
was under Mouat. I have nothing to say against Mr. Robert Bruce,
or against Mr. Robertson either, with regard to our present
condition.
1354. You are quite content with your way of dealing at
present?-Yes, I have nothing to say against that, but I am
frightened for the future.
1355. Have you a boat of your own?-No.
1356. How do you do for a boat?-I generally arrange with some
fish-curer, and he procures me a boat, and takes a hire for it for the
season.
1357. How much is the hire?-The hire, as a general rule, has
been £2 for three months, or £3, 10s. for the whole season.
1358. Is that the way you did with Mr. Robertson last year?-Yes.
1359. You got goods at his store?-Yes.
1360. As many goods as you wanted during the fishing season?-
Yes.
1361. And a little money when you asked for it?-Yes.
1362. How much money would you get at a time from him?-If I
asked Mr. Robertson for 5s. or 2s. or 6s., I would get it, according
as I asked for it.
1363. If you asked for the whole of your earnings in money, and
took no goods out of Mr. Robertson's store, is it likely that you
would get the money, so that you could go elsewhere and buy your
goods?-I could not say anything about that, because I did not ask
it.
1364. You don't wish to go anywhere else?-No; I have not tried
that.
1365. Do you think the quality of Mr. Robertson's goods is better
than Mouat's?-Oh, Mouat's was nothing at all.
1366. Have you any daughters in your family who knit?-I have
two.
1367. Do they knit their own worsted?-Yes; they make worsted
for themselves from the wool of our own sheep.
1368. Do they go into Lerwick to sell the articles they have
made?-They do.
1369. To whom do they sell them?-To anybody; they do not knit
for a merchant. They go to any merchant they choose and sell
their shawls, because the worsted with which they are made is
their own. If they go into one store with the shawl, and the price is
not suitable, they go into the next one.
1370. How are they paid for their shawls?-They are paid in goods
at any store where they can sell them.
1371. Do they ever ask for money?-They have asked for it often,
but they have never got it; and therefore they say there is no use
asking for it, because they know they won't get it.
1372. Are you satisfied with the value of the goods they get in
exchange for their shawls?-Sometimes, but not always.
Sometimes the goods which they get [Page 28] in exchange are
not worth the value put upon them. Sometimes they get cottons
for 10d. which are not worth above 8d.
1373. How do you know that?-Because I see the quality of them.
1374. Have they told you the price which the merchant has
charged for them?-Yes; and sometimes when my daughters have
knitted a shawl, and it is ready to go to the dresser, there may be
no money in the house to pay for the dressing of it, and it has to be
paid in money. I have known my daughters detained in that way
for some days, until I went to a neighbour and borrowed a shilling
to pay for the dressing of the shawl, or until I could sell something
off the farm; and then, when the shawl was dressed, they went to
the merchant with it and sold it to him for goods, according to the
custom.
1375. Can your daughters not dress the shawls themselves?-No;
they are shawl-makers, but not shawl-dressers. Their dresser is
Mrs. Arcus, at the Docks.
1376. Is she the only dresser here?-No; there are other dressers
than her, but she is the only one that my daughters go to.
1377. Would she not give them credit for the dressing?-No.
1378. She always requires ready money for that?-Yes; she might
give credit to a girl living in the town, but I live sixteen miles from
Lerwick, and she would not give credit to a party living at that
distance.
1379. How long have your daughters knitted?-A long time now.
There is one of them twenty-seven years of age, and she has
knitted since she was about eighteen.
1380. Have you ever seen your daughters bring home money for
their knitting?-No; I never saw a shilling come into our house in
my life which had been got for a shawl. I have paid out several
shillings for the dressing of the shawls but I never saw any money
given in for them.
1381. Is there anything more you wish to say?-No.
Lerwick, January 3, 1872, GAVIN COLVIN, examined.
1382. Are you a fisherman?-Yes.
1383. Where?-In Levenwick, Sandwick parish.
1384. Was the ground there held in tack by Robert Mouat at one
time?-Yes.
1385. How long have you been there?-I have been there all my
life.
1386. What was your rent when you held your land under
Mouat?-It was £4, excluding poor-rates and road money.
1387. That was what you paid to Mouat?-Yes.
1388. Then you knew what your rent was?-Yes. Of course he
told us what our rent was.
1389. And it was accounted for at the settlement?-Yes. At the
settlement he summed up our accounts, and told us we were due
so much-so much for rent and so much for goods.
1390. Had you a pass-book?-No. He did not approve of
pass-books.
1391. Did you take a note yourself of the goods you got, or did you
just trust to the people at the store?-I trusted to the people at the
store,-to his storekeeper.
1392. Have you been present during the examination of John
Leask?-Yes.
1393. You have heard all that he said about the way of dealing,
and about the store, and the quality of the goods?-Yes.
1394. Do you agree with all that he said?-Yes, I agree more
particularly with what he said about the quality of the goods. The
goods were very inferior at Mouat's store.
1395. You also agree with him in his description of the way of
dealing with Mouat?-Yes.
1396. Do you also say that you were compelled to sell all your fish
to him?-Yes. All our earnings, whether by sea or land, were in
duty bound to his store. That was stated to us every year at the
settlement.
1397. Was that stated to you by Mouat?-Yes. We were told that
we were in duty bound to bring every iota of our produce, whether
by sea or land, to his store.
1398. Did you ever get any letter threatening you for selling your
fish or your goods to another than Mouat?-I never did, I got no
letter, because I never got far forward as to require that treatment.
1399. You never got warning to go away?-No, but I was often
told that I would get warning if I persisted in such things.
1400. Do you know of any of your neighbours having got such
letters?-No; not in my neighbourhood.
1401. Is there anything you wish to add to the statement made by
John Leask?-Nothing.
1402. Who were you fishing for last year?-For Mr. Robertson.
1403. Did you get goods at his store?-Yes.
1404. They were of better quality than those you got from
Mouat?-Certainly they were.
1405. Do you get all the money you ask for?-I get what goods I
require, and if I ask for money I will get it. At the settlement, if
there is anything due to me I will get it; and if I don't have money
for my rent, he will help me with it.
1406. But if you want all your balance in money, will you get it?-
Yes. I got it last time. We are quite satisfied with Mr. Robertson
according to the custom of the country.
1407. But are you satisfied with the custom of the country?-No; I
don't agree with it.
1408. What do you want to be changed?-I am not prepared to say
in the meantime.
1409. Do you want the price of your fish fixed in advance?-We
would require that, I think, for some encouragement to us.
1410. Could you not get it fixed then, if you asked for it?-We
have asked for it, but we have never got it yet.
1411. Who did you ask it from?-From the dealers we were
fishing to, all along.
1412. But you have fished for no dealers except Mouat and
Robertson?-No.
1413. Have you asked them to fix the price before?-Yes.
1414. Did they refuse your request?-Yes. They refused to state a
price then, and said they would give the currency of the country at
the end of the season.
1415. Have you asked them to pay for the fish as they were
delivered?-No; I never asked them for that.
Lerwick, January 3, 1872, CATHERINE PETRIE, examined.
1416. You come from the island of Fetlar?-Yes.
1417. Where do you live there?-In Aithness.
1418. Are you a married woman?-No.
1419. Do you live with your people?-Yes.
1420. Are you in the habit of knitting?-Yes.
1421. What do you knit?-Fine shawls and veils.
1422. Do you knit these articles with your own wool?-Yes.
1423. Do you make your own worsted, or buy it?-I buy wool,
and make it.
1424. Where do you buy it?-From any person who sells it. There
is a Mrs. Smith in Fetlar who sells wool. She lives at a place
called Smithfield.
1425. Has she a shop?-No. They formerly had shop, but they
don't have one now. She is a widow
1426. Has she any land?-Yes; she has a small farm. She has
some sheep, and she obliges any person with wool who wants it.
1427. Do you always buy your wool from her?-[Page 29]
Sometimes from her, and sometimes from any merchant I can get
it from.
1428. Do you pay for it in money?-Yes; or in work.
1429. What kind of work?-Any kind of household work that they
have to do. People employ others to do so much work, and give
them wool for it.
1430. Do you mean work on their farms or ground-Yes; and they
will give them wool in return, because the wool in Fetlar is so
scarce.
1431. You knit on your own account, and sell what you knit?-
Yes.
1432. Do you sell it to merchants in Fetlar?-No. There are no
merchants in Fetlar who take it. I come down to Lerwick with it
once a year.
1433. Do you then bring in with you all that you have knitted
during the season?-Yes.
1434. How much will you bring?-It is not much; perhaps two or
three shawls. I have had as high as five shawls when I came down.
We have household work to attend to, and we cannot knit so fast
as they do here in Lerwick.
1435. It is just part of your time that you can give?-Yes.
1436. Have you come down just now for the purpose of selling the
articles you have knitted?-Yes.
1437. How many shawls did you bring with you this year?-Two.
1438. That is less than usual?-Yes.
1439. How do you get paid for your shawls?-I get goods out of
the shop.
1440. Does the merchant fix the price 'for the shawl' when you
take it in?-Yes.
1441. How much did you get for the two you brought down this
time?-16s. for one, and 17s. for the other; and I had one
belonging to another person that I got 19s. for.
1442. Who was the merchant that you sold them to?-Mr.
Sinclair.
1443. What did you get for them?-Goods.
1444. Did you ask for money?-I did not ask for money, because it
has been understood for many years back that they would not give
any, and goods are marked on the paper that we get. When I come
down I employ a person to dress the shawls, and then that person
sells them for me in the shop, and I get back a note from her,
stating the amount in goods that I am to get for them. I understand
not to ask for money, because the thing is always in that form.
1445. When you get the note, do you hand it back at the shop and
get the goods in return?-Yes.
1446. Have you got any of these notes?-No; I have got the goods
for them, and I was preparing to return to Fetlar when I was
summoned here.
1447. Is the note printed or written?-It is all written.
1448. Who is the dresser that you employ?-A Miss Robertson. I
don't know where she lives. The woman I live with when in
Lerwick-Mrs. Park, Charlotte Place-went with her when she
sold the shawls.
1449. Do you never go to the shop and sell your own shawls?-
Sometimes I do; but not this time.
1450. Did you ever go to the shop to sell your shawls, and ask to
be paid in money?-No; because I understood I would get no
money.
1451. Did you ever get any part of the balance in money?-None.
1452. What do you get in goods?-Any kind of soft goods which I
want, and which are in the shop. If the goods I want are not in the
shop, then they would say that they did not have them; and I would
have to take something else.
1453. Is it just soft goods that are in the shop?-Yes.
1454. Not provisions?-No; not provisions.
1455. Is there any tea?-No.
1456. You go to the shop yourself for your goods, and hand your
line in payment for them?-Yes.
1457. Could you the same goods in Fetlar?-I could get the goods
in Fetlar if I had money to give for them; but I could not get money
for shawls or veils in Fetlar.
1458. But if you had the money, could you get the goods as good
and cheap in Fetlar as in Lerwick?-Yes; they are very cheap in
Fetlar. Messrs. Hay Co. have a shop there.
1459. And you think you could get your goods as good and cheap
there as you can in Lerwick?-Yes.
1460. And of course you would not have to carry them back with
you?-No.
1461. Are there many people in Fetlar who knit the same way as
you do, and come in to Lerwick to sell their shawls?-Yes; there
are a good many people who knit in the same way that I do, and
come down here with their shawls, because there is no other way
of disposing of them.
1462. Do they get their payment in the same way?-So far as I
know, they do.
1463. Do they always get goods for their lines when they come
down?-Yes.
1464. Will they not get a line to come down at another time for the
goods?-No; I don't think they would get them in that way.
1465. Suppose you did not want the whole amount of your line in
goods at one time, could you not take the line home with you, and
when you happened to be again in Lerwick might you not get the
balance in any kind of goods you wanted that were in the shop?-
Yes; and I could get the goods at any time if I were to send down
the line.
1466. Is that sometimes done?-I have never done it; but I suppose
the merchants would do it.
1467. Did you ever know of a line being sold to another for
money, or for another kind of goods?-No; I never did that myself,
and I don't know of it being done.
1468. Is it all drapery that you are taking back?-Yes.
1469. Then you will have about £2 or £3 worth of it this time?-
Yes.
1470. Do you want all that for your own use?-The girl for whom
I sold one of the shawls will get her share of it.
1471. But when you brought down five shawls you might have
twice as much to take back as you have this time?-It is not very
much that they give for the shawls sometimes; and once, when I
came down from Fetlar and had to pay the freight, I had to take
what they would give me; and I could not get what I asked.
1472. Is it all stuff for, your own use that you are taking back, in
exchange for your own, shawls which you sold?-Yes.
1473. Do you want the goods?-Yes.
1474. Are you to use them for yourself?-Yes.
Lerwick, January 3, 1872, MARGARET TULLOCH, examined.