Miss JOHNSON. Well, maybe he felt his resolve was shaky. I felt his
resolve was shaky, and maybe he felt so too, and he was afraid if he
talked to them they would talk him out of it.
Mr. SLAWSON. In one of your exhibits you comment on his reply to one
of your questions, that if he was so adamant on wanting to renounce
his American citizenship, he could do so by going back to the Embassy,
and that he had been so informed in the letter. His reply to that,
according to your exhibits, was that they would simply give him the
same runaround again. Do you have anything to add to that?
Miss JOHNSON. Well, it has come up. It is in the notes several times
here, and I may not catch it each time. But I think I have already
spoken for the record my impression that he was really not consistent
about the Embassy, or I might say just putting it a little more
strongly and editorially, he was not quite honest, because he claimed
he was so mad he wouldn't go back, yet he was so firm in his resolve as
a great big man, that he was going to give up his citizenship, you know.
But I pointed out to him that this seemed to me to be pique, boyish
pique. Whether I actually said it, you know, I probably didn't quite,
but that is what I thought. He was indulging himself. If he was really
so resolved to give up his citizenship, then why let a little thing
like annoyance over his October the 31st interview stand in the way of
doing this, which he felt was an important principle and act? And I did
point out to him the discrepancies in a gentler way than I honestly
thought. The answers in my notes reflect his response to this, not the
way that I put it to him, that he wouldn't go back because of this and
that.
He did show me the letter, but my impression is that he wanted to know
whether I thought that the letter was proper treatment. Showing it
to me was to me an indication of his very legal approach, legalistic
approach to things, and it seemed to me of course nothing exceptional
about the letter. You see there he knew what he could do, and he was
in light of that refusing to go to the Embassy. That seemed to me
very immature, and from the standpoint of his stated principles, very
inconsistent.
Mr. SLAWSON. I just have one final question here. I would like to bring
together----
Miss JOHNSON. Excuse me, could I add something there?
Mr. SLAWSON. Yes.
Miss JOHNSON. And that really was one more thing that led me to think
that he was less than certain about his attempt to defect. Well,
leaving himself this loophole was it seemed to me important, it seemed
important at the time, and he knew he was doing it, because I pointed
it out to him. He knew he was doing it, and he got out of it by
whatever it was he said to me. I can't isolate all the comments in the
notes, but they are all there. He got out of it, but he knew he was
doing it.
Mr. SLAWSON. But you felt that all these comments then were more
or less excuses made up in his own mind, either consciously or
unconsciously, that he was--excuses for not going back to the Embassy
to make this final step of dissolving his citizenship?
Miss JOHNSON. And that behind what appeared to me to be boyish pique
lay something else. He was leaving himself a way out, and I was fully
aware of it at the time.
Mr. SLAWSON. We previously have discussed how much he probably was
paying for his hotel room at various times, and for his meals. I bring
to your attention one of your statements in the exhibits, that he said
he had been living on Intourist vouchers for 10 days, and we have
already gone into what 10 days probably meant. Did he make any other
comments that would relate to how much money his attempt to defect was
costing him?
Miss JOHNSON. Finance was certainly something I talked to him about,
and it was something he was notably elusive about, and again he said
he was paying the standard rate. "I want to make it clear they are not
sponsoring me." Naturally I wanted to know on what money he got there,
and it was in response to this that he told me the itinerary by which
he came, by which he said he came, that is from New Orleans to Le
Havre, to Helsinki. He gave me his route.
Whether it was the true route I don't know, but he gave me what he said
was the route, and the method of transport. He said he left from New
Orleans September 19. I wasn't absolutely sure that was the date he
gave me, on a Friday by ship. Actually the 19th was a Saturday. And
he might have left on the 18th. That it took him 12 days to get to Le
Havre, that he booked a flight to Helsinki but you couldn't fly to
Helsinki from Le Havre. You would have to fly from Paris.
Mr. SLAWSON. Actually he flew from London. He went from Le Havre to
London and then Helsinki.
Miss JOHNSON. By the same ship?
Mr. SLAWSON. No; by airplane I believe. Anyway he disembarked on the
ship at Le Havre, as he told you, then went from there to London I
believe by airplane, although I am not certain. But then he went by
airplane from London to Helsinki.
Miss JOHNSON. Yes; actually he got his visa in London probably.
Mr. SLAWSON. Well, I do know some of these facts, but I would like you
to go on the best of your recollection.
Miss JOHNSON. He said nothing about London at all. I never was sure how
the hell he got to Helsinki, but he said he went by train from Helsinki
to Moscow, and he repeated that for 10 days he had been on those
vouchers.
Mr. SLAWSON. Did he indicate to you anything about how he got his visa?
Miss JOHNSON. No; not at all. I may well have asked him too. A question
and a nonreply, though, are not recorded in my notes, but I may well
have asked him. On the other hand I think I would have remembered if he
had said anything. If he just evaded the way he evaded a lot, I might
not have put it down, because evasion was really quite characteristic
of him. But of course I was curious where he got it, and how. And
I do have $30 written down here as the rate. You know there was a
businessman's rate of $12 a day at that time, and also the $30 rate I
am telling you is as of that time because it is now $35. But I do have
$30 written down, so I assumed that he specified that he was there at
the $30 rate those 10 days, not the $12. No; he said nothing about a
visa, and of course I was curious.
Mr. SLAWSON. I have no more specific questions, Miss Johnson. If you
have anything at all to add, or any further comments you want to make,
please go ahead and do so.
Miss JOHNSON. No; I don't.
Mr. SLAWSON. Thank you very much for coming here.
Miss JOHNSON. Thank you.