The testimony of Sylvia Odio was taken at 9 a.m., on July 22, 1964,
in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan
and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant
counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you please rise and take the oath? Do you solemnly
swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mrs. ODIO. Yes; I do.
Mr. LIEBELER. Please sit down. My name is Wesley J. Liebeler. I am an
attorney on the staff of the President's Commission investigating the
assassination of President Kennedy. I have been authorized to take
your testimony by the Commission, pursuant to authority granted to the
Commission by Executive Order 11130 dated November 29, 1963, and joint
resolution of Congress No. 137.
Under the rules of the Commission, you are entitled to have an attorney
present, if you wish one. You are also entitled to 3 days' notice of
the hearing, and you are not required to answer any question that you
think might incriminate you or might violate some other privilege
you may have. I think the Secret Service did call you, or Martha Joe
Stroud, here in the U.S. attorney's office, called you and gave you
notice.
Mrs. ODIO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you wish to have an attorney present?
Mrs. ODIO. No; I don't think so.
Mr. LIEBELER. We want to ask you some questions about the possibility
that you saw Lee Harvey Oswald.
Mrs. ODIO. Before you start, let me give you a letter of my father's
which he wrote me from prison. You can have it. It was very funny,
because at the time he wrote it, the FBI incident happened a week
later. I told my father this man had been in my house and he introduced
himself as your friend; and he wrote me back in December telling me
that such people were not his friends, and he said not to receive
anybody in my house, and not any of them were his friends, and he
didn't know those people. At the time I did give the names of one or
two, and he wrote back, "I actually don't know who they are."
Mr. LIEBELER. Let's come to this during the course of the questioning,
but I am glad you brought it up. I do want to get to it, because it may
help us determine who these people were.
Mrs. ODIO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. First of all, would you tell us where you were born?
Mrs. ODIO. In Havana, Cuba.
Mr. LIEBELER. Approximately when?
Mrs. ODIO. 1937.
Mr. LIEBELER. How long did you live in Cuba?
Mrs. ODIO. Until, well, I studied in the United States, so I mean--you
mean my whole life until--it was 1960.
Mr. LIEBELER. 1960?
Mrs. ODIO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Then you left Cuba and came to the United States, is that
correct?
Mrs. ODIO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where did you come to in the United States?
Mrs. ODIO. We first came to Miami, and we stayed there just a few days
and left for Ponce, Puerto Rico, and we stayed there 2 years.
Mr. LIEBELER. Then from Ponce, did you come to Dallas?
Mrs. ODIO. From Ponce, I came straight to Dallas last year, March of
last year.
Mr. LIEBELER. So that you have been in Dallas since March of 1963, is
that correct?
Mrs. ODIO. That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER. You indicated that you had gone to school in the United
States. Where?
Mrs. ODIO. Eden Hall Convent of The Sacred Heart, in Philadelphia.
Mr. LIEBELER. How long did you go to school there?
Mrs. ODIO. Three years.
Mr. LIEBELER. That is what, high school?
Mrs. ODIO. That's right. From 1951 to 1954.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was that period of 3 years the only time you were in the
United States prior to the time that you came to Dallas in March of
1963? The only time in the United States over any extended period of
time?
Mrs. ODIO. Excuse me, when I got married in 1957, I stayed 8 months--9
months in New Orleans.
Mr. LIEBELER. So that you lived in the United States for 9 months in
1956?
Mrs. ODIO. That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER. You had been in Philadelphia for 3 years from 1954 on, is
that correct?
Mrs. ODIO. No; from 1951 to 1954, when I graduated.
Mr. LIEBELER. And for the period in New Orleans and when you came to
the United States finally?
Mrs. ODIO. In 1960, December 25, 1960.
Mr. LIEBELER. So after you came in December of 1960, you went to Puerto
Rico and lived in Puerto Rico for 2 years, and you came to Dallas in
1963 and you have been here ever since?
Mrs. ODIO. That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you tell us briefly what your educational
background is, Mrs. Odio?
Mrs. ODIO. Well, I had grammar school in Cuba. I started high school in
Cuba and then I was sent to the Sacred Heart and I applied for college,
and went back and studied law in the University of Villanova. I did
not finish because my career was interrupted because of Castro, and I
didn't finish law.
Mr. LIEBELER. How much training did you have in law?
Mrs. ODIO. I had almost 3 years.
Mr. LIEBELER. Of law study in Cuba?
Mrs. ODIO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. My record indicates that on December 18, 1963, you were
interviewed by two agents of the FBI, Mr. James P. Hosty and Bardwell
D. Odum. Do you remember that?
Mrs. ODIO. That's correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. It is my understanding that they interviewed you at your
place of work, is that correct?
Mrs. ODIO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember approximately what they asked you and
what you told them?
Mrs. ODIO. I think I remember. Not exactly, but I think I can recall
the conversation.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you give us the content of that conversation, as
best you can recall it?
Mrs. ODIO. They told me they were coming because of the assassination
of President Kennedy, that they had news that I knew or I had known
Lee Harvey Oswald. And I told them that I had not known him as Lee
Harvey Oswald, but that he was introduced to me as Leon Oswald. And
they showed me a picture of Oswald and a picture of Ruby. I did not
know Ruby, but I did recall Oswald. They asked me about my activities
in JURE. That is the Junta Revolutionary, and it is led by Manolo Ray.
I told him that I did belong to this organization because my father
and mother had belonged in Cuba, and I had seen him (Ray) in Puerto
recently, and that I knew him personally, and that I did belong to
JURE. They asked me about the members here in Dallas, and I told him
a few names of the Cubans here. They asked me to tell the story about
what happened in my house.
Mr. LIEBELER. Who was it that you had seen in Puerto Rico?
Mrs. ODIO. Mr. Ray, I had seen. He was a very close friend of my father
and mother. He hid in my house several times in Cuba.
So they asked me to tell him how I came to know Oswald, and I told
them that it was something very brief and I could not recall the time,
exact date. I still can't. We more or less have established that it was
the end of September. And, of course, my sister had recognized him at
the same time I did, but I did not say anything to her. She came very
excited one day and said, "That is the man that was in my house." And I
said, "Yes; I remember."
Mr. LIEBELER. Tell us all the circumstances surrounding the event when
Oswald came to your house.
Mrs. ODIO. Well, I had been having little groups of Cubans coming to
my house who have been asking me to help them in JURE. They were going
to open a revolutionary paper here in Dallas. And I told them at the
time I was very busy with my four children, and I would help, in other
things like selling bonus to help buy arms for Cuba. And I said I would
help as much as I could.
Those are my activities before Oswald came. Of course, all the Cubans
knew that I was involved in JURE, but it did not have a lot of
sympathy in Dallas and I was criticized because of that.
Mr. LIEBELER. Because of what now?
Mrs. ODIO. Because I was sympathetic with Ray and this movement. Ray
has always had the propaganda that he is a leftist and that he is
Castro without Castro. So at that time I was planning to move over to
Oak Cliff because it was much nearer to my work in Irving. So we were
all involved in this moving business, and my sister Annie, who at the
time was staying with some American friends, had come over that weekend
to babysit for me.
It either was a Thursday or a Friday. It must have been either one of
those days, in the last days of September. And I was getting dressed to
go out to a friend's house, and she was staying to babysit.
Like I said, the doorbell rang and she went over--she had a housecoat
on--she wasn't dressed properly--and came back and said, "Sylvia, there
are three men at the door, and one seems to be an American, the other
two seem to be Cubans. Do you know them?" So I put a housecoat on and
stood at the door. I never opened my door unless I know who they are,
because I have had occasions where Cubans have introduced themselves as
having arrived from Cuba and known my family, and I never know.
So I went to the door, and he said, "Are you Sarita Odio?" And I said,
"I am not. That is my sister studying at the University of Dallas. I am
Sylvia." Then he said, "Is she the oldest?" And I said, "No; I am the
oldest." And he said, "It is you we are looking for." So he said, "We
are members of JURE."
This at the time struck me funny, because their faces did not seem
familiar, and I asked them for their names. One of them said his name
was Leopoldo. He said that was his war name. In all this underground,
everybody has a war name. This was done for safety in Cuba. So when
everybody came to exile, everyone was known by their war names.
And the other one did give me his name, but I can't recall. I have been
trying to recall. It was something like Angelo. I have never been able
to remember, and I couldn't be exact on this name, but the other one I
am exact on; I remember perfectly.
Mr. LIEBELER. Let me ask you this before you go ahead with the story.
Which one of the men told you that they were members of JURE and did
most of the talking? Was it the American?
Mrs. ODIO. The American had not said a word yet.
Mr. LIEBELER. Which one of the Cubans?
Mrs. ODIO. The American was in the middle. They were leaning against
the staircase. There was a tall one. Let me tell you, they both looked
very greasy like the kind of low Cubans, not educated at all. And one
was on the heavier side and had black hair. I recall one of them had
glasses, if I remember. We have been trying to establish, my sister and
I, the identity of this man. And one of them, the tall one, was the one
called Leopoldo.
Mr. LIEBELER. He did most of the talking?
Mrs. ODIO. He did most of the talking. The other one kept quiet, and
the American, we will call him Leon, said just a few little words in
Spanish, trying to be cute, but very few, like "Hola," like that in
Spanish.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have a chain on the door, or was the door
completely opened?
Mrs. ODIO. I had a chain.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was the chain fastened?
Mrs. ODIO. No; I unfastened it after a little while when they told
me they were members of JURE, and were trying to let me have them
come into the house. When I said no, one of them said, "We are very
good friends of your father." This struck me, because I didn't think
my father could have such kind of friends, unless he knew them from
anti-Castro activities. He gave me so many details about where they saw
my father and what activities he was in. I mean, they gave me almost
incredible details about things that somebody who knows him really
would or that somebody informed well knows. And after a little while,
after they mentioned my father, they started talking about the American.
He said, "You are working in the underground." And I said, "No, I am
sorry to say I am not working in the underground." And he said, "We
wanted you to meet this American. His name is Leon Oswald." He repeated
it twice. Then my sister Annie by that time was standing near the door.
She had come to see what was going on. And they introduced him as an
American who was very much interested in the Cuban cause. And let me
see, if I recall exactly what they said about him. I don't recall at
the time I was at the door things about him.
I recall a telephone call that I had the next day from the so-called
Leopoldo, so I cannot remember the conversation at the door about this
American.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did your sister hear this man introduced as Leon Oswald?
Mrs. ODIO. She says she doesn't recall. She could not say that it is
true. I mean, even though she said she thought I had mentioned the name
very clearly, and I had mentioned the names of the three men.
Mr. LIEBELER. But she didn't remember it?
Mrs. ODIO. No; she said I mentioned it, because I made a comment. This
I don't recall. I said, "I am going to see Antonio Alentado," which
is one of the leaders of the JURE here in Dallas. And I think I just
casually said, "I am going to mention these names to him to see if he
knows any of them." But I forgot about them.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did your sister see the men?
Mrs. ODIO. She saw the three of them.
Mr. LIEBELER. Have you discussed this with her since that time?
Mrs. ODIO. I just had to discuss it because it was bothering me. I just
had to know.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did she think it was Oswald?
Mrs. ODIO. Well, her reaction to it when Oswald came on television,
she almost passed out on me, just like I did the day at work when I
learned about the assassination of the President. Her reaction was so
obvious that it was him, I mean. And my reaction, we remember Oswald
the day he came to my house because he had not shaved and he had a kind
of a very, I don't know how to express it, but some little hairs like
if you haven't shaved, but it is not a thick moustache, but some kind
of shadow. That is something I noticed. And he was wearing--the other
ones were wearing white dirty shirts, but he was wearing a long sleeved
shirt.
Mr. LIEBELER. What kind of shirt was it, a white shirt?
Mrs. ODIO. No; it was either green or blue, and he had it rolled up to
here.
Mr. LIEBELER. Almost to his elbows?
Mrs. ODIO. No; less than that, just the ends of the sleeves.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he have a tie?
Mrs. ODIO. No tie.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was it a sport shirt, or working shirt?
Mrs. ODIO. He had it open. I don't know if he had a collar or not, but
it was open. And the other one had a white undershirt. One of them was
very hairy. Where was I? I just want to remember everything.
Mr. LIEBELER. You mentioned when your sister saw Oswald's picture on
television that she almost passed out. Did she recognize him, do you
know, as the man that had been in the apartment?
Mrs. ODIO. She said, "Sylvia, you know that man?" And I said "Yes," and
she said, "I know him." "He was the one that came to our door, and it
couldn't be so, could it?"
That was our first interview. We were very much concerned after that.
We were concerned and very scared, because I mean, it was such a shock.
This man, the other one, the second Cuban, took out a letter written
in Spanish, and the content was something like we represent the
revolutionary counsel, and we are making a big movement to buy arms
for Cuba and to help overthrow the dictator Castro, and we want you to
translate this letter and write it in English and send a whole lot of
them to different industries to see if we can get some results.
This same petition had been asked of me by Alentado who was one of
the leaders of JURE, here in Dallas. He had made this petition to me,
"Sylvia, let's write letters to different industries to see if we can
raise some money." I had told him too, I was very busy. So I asked and
I said, "Are you sent by Alentado? Is this a petition?"
Mr. LIEBELER. You mentioned this Alentado who was one of the JURE
representatives here in Dallas. Is that his full name?
Mrs. ODIO. His name is Antonio.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know a man by the name of George Rodriguez
Alvareda?
Mrs. ODIO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Who is he?
Mrs. ODIO. He is another member of JURE. And at the time, a little
after that, after December, I was more in contact with him, and I
will tell you why later. They are all members of JURE here in Dallas,
working hard.
And so I asked him if they were sent by him, and he said, "No". And I
said, "Do you know Eugenio?" This is the war name for ----. That is his
war name and everybody underground knows him as Eugenio. So I didn't
mention his real name. He didn't know.
Mr. LIEBELER. Who did you ask this?
Mrs. ODIO. I asked these men when they came to the door--I asked if
they had been sent by Alentado, because I explained to them that he had
already asked me to do the letters and he said no. And I said, "Were
you sent by Eugenio," and he said no. And I said, "Were you sent by
Ray," and he said no. And I said, "Well, is this on your own?"
And he said, "We have just come from New Orleans and we have been
trying to get this organized, this movement organized down there, and
this is on our own, but we think we could do some kind of work." This
was all talked very fast, not as slow as I am saying it now. You know
how fast Cubans talk. And he put the letter back in his pocket when I
said no. And then I think I asked something to the American, trying to
be nice, "Have you ever been to Cuba?" And he said, "No, I have never
been to Cuba."