Mr. COLEMAN. The Commission Exhibit No. 979 is the same as I have
marked as Seeley Exhibit No. 3.
Mr. SEELEY. So far as I can determine by examination of the file, the
next contact I had with the file concerns a slip that is part of State
X-19, consisting of a DS-10 reference slip dated 12-29-61.
Mr. COLEMAN. That is attached to a letter from L. A. Mack, to the
Director of the Passport Office of the State Department, is that
correct?
Mr. SEELEY. Mr. Coleman, on that particular item, I don't think that
that was what it was attached to. I think it was probably attached to
X-20.
Mr. COLEMAN. What is that?
Mr. SEELEY. That is a memorandum from Miss Knight to Mr. Boswell.
Mr. COLEMAN. Will you read that memorandum into the record? It is short.
Mr. SEELEY. Yes; the subject is: "Lee Harvey Oswald." It is classified
"Confidential."
It states: "We refer to the Office Memorandum of July 27, 1961, from
SY, which stated that 'renounced United States citizenship.' Mr. Oswald
attempted to renounce United States citizenship but did not in fact
renounce United States citizenship. Our determination on the basis of
the information and evidence presently of record is that Mr. Oswald did
not expatriate himself, and remains a citizen of the United States."
Mr. COLEMAN. You say that your reference slip of 12-29-61 was attached
to that memorandum?
Mr. SEELEY. I would presume it was.
Mr. COLEMAN. Would you look at the letter, the Mack letter from the
Immigration and Naturalization Service to the Director of Passports?
Mr. SEELEY. I am looking at it.
Mr. COLEMAN. Did you see that letter or did you have anything to do
with that letter?
Mr. SEELEY. So far as I know, I had nothing to do with that letter. I
have seen the letter.
Mr. COLEMAN. By the time you did, the reference slip of 12-29-61--which
I would like the reporter to indicate was marked Seeley Exhibit No.
4--what was your job in the State Department?
(The document referred to was marked Seeley Exhibit No. 4 for
identification.)
Mr. SEELEY. At the time that I--I was still Chief of the Security
Branch of the Legal Division.
Mr. COLEMAN. What does PT-L mean?
Mr. SEELEY. PT-L, Passport-Legal, PT-LS, Passport-Legal Security.
To give you an idea about it, the Legal Division is divided into two
branches, and we have a short designation for it, PT-LS and PT-LAD.
Mr. COLEMAN. I see.
Mr. SEELEY. I will tell you further if you wish, about this particular
item. This was----
Mr. COLEMAN. What is this particular item? You are now talking about
the letter?
Mr. SEELEY. The letter; yes.
Mr. COLEMAN. It is the Mack letter?
Mr. SEELEY. State Department File X-19. It was addressed to our Liaison
Branch, and I see at the bottom it was reviewed by Mr. Reichman, of the
Immigration and Naturalization Service. And I would presume that I did
not, that this was not in the file at the time that this DS-10, that it
was probably in Liaison, and the file was called for. It was reviewed.
The file was then reviewed by Mr. Reichman who answered for his own
service.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. COLEMAN. Now, sir; what was the next occasion on which you had
anything to do with the Oswald file?
Mr. SEELEY. The next occasion concerns Item X-11.
Mr. COLEMAN. We have marked as Seeley Deposition Exhibit No. 5 a
memorandum from Robert Owen, to Michael Cieplinski, dated March 23,
1962.
(The document referred to was marked Seeley Exhibit No. 5 for
identification.)
Mr. COLEMAN. I ask you, sir; whether that is the document you refer to.
Mr. SEELEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. COLEMAN. Did you draft Seeley Exhibit No. 5?
Mr. SEELEY. No, sir.
Mr. COLEMAN. You reviewed it?
Mr. SEELEY. Yes, sir; on March 28, 1962.
Mr. COLEMAN. Did you have anything to do with Seeley Exhibit No. 5
other than the fact that you just read it?
Mr. SEELEY. No, sir.
Mr. COLEMAN. Why would you be reading it?
Mr. SEELEY. The item was referred to, a copy of this item was referred
to Miss Knight. It was, in turn, referred to the Legal Division, and
then in turn referred to the Security Branch of the Legal Division.
Mr. COLEMAN. Did you take any action with respect to it?
Mr. SEELEY. No, sir; I did not, other than to note that I had read it
and initialed it.
Mr. COLEMAN. Did the fact that he had originally stated that he had
information as a radar operator in the Marine Corps which he would make
available to the Soviet Union--did that in any way raise in your mind a
security problem?
Mr. SEELEY. Yes, sir; I thought that this certainly raised a doubt. He
had originally, I think, way back had made some similar type statement.
Here he made the statement, "Oswald stated he had never in fact been
subjected to any questioning or briefing by the Soviet authorities
concerning his life or experiences prior to entering the Soviet Union,
and never provided such information to any Soviet organ." I thought
that certainly there were two statements by him.
Mr. COLEMAN. I note on the copy you have there is a red check right
beside the line which I read. Did you place that red check on there?
Mr. SEELEY. I don't think so, sir. It looks like--I think I had a
regular pencil, and I think I would have done it with a pencil.
Mr. COLEMAN. Merely because a person who had attempted to defect now
says when he is trying to get back into the country, "I really didn't
tell the Soviets anything," that wouldn't completely satisfy you that
maybe he hadn't, would it?
Mr. SEELEY. No, sir; but I had no information that he had in fact done
so. He had just made a statement that he would. I think that was his
original statement.
Mr. COLEMAN. But you didn't do anything other than read Seeley Exhibit
No. 5?
Mr. SEELEY. That is right, sir.
Mr. COLEMAN. When was the next occasion you had anything to do with the
file?
Mr. SEELEY. The next concerns Item X-7, which is a memorandum from
Robert D. Johnson to William O. Boswell, dated May 4, 1962.
Mr. COLEMAN. We have marked that as Seeley Exhibit No. 6, and
identified as a memorandum from Robert D. Johnson to William O.
Boswell, dated May 4, 1962.
(The document referred to was marked Seeley Exhibit No. 6 for
identification.)
Mr. COLEMAN. Did you draft this memorandum?
Mr. SEELEY. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. COLEMAN. What did you have to do with it? You just read it?
Mr. SEELEY. No, sir; I signed it in Mr. Johnson's stead, to send it on
its way to Mr. Boswell.
Mr. COLEMAN. In effect, you said that based upon the evidence and
information of record, that Oswald had not expatriated himself under
the pertinent laws of the United States?
Mr. SEELEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. COLEMAN. Did you review the file before you wrote that memorandum?
Mr. SEELEY. I didn't write the memorandum. Before I signed it?
Mr. COLEMAN. Yes.
Mr. SEELEY. I don't have any recollection of it. I presume the file was
with the memorandum. That is in the normal course of business, that
would be the way it was handled.
Mr. COLEMAN. But you don't have any independent recollection of whether
you checked through the file to see whether----
Mr. SEELEY. No, sir; I do not.
Mr. COLEMAN. Could you tell me who wrote the memorandum from looking at
the initials?
Mr. SEELEY. I think it was a Mrs. Abboud.
Mr. COLEMAN. Did you discuss it with her before?
Mr. SEELEY. No, sir; I did not. This came from the citizenship area.
She is in the citizenship area.
Mr. COLEMAN. If they prepare a memorandum for your signature, just
merely because somebody in the citizenship area drafts it doesn't mean
that you sign it, does it?
Mr. SEELEY. No, sir; it does not. I would imagine, although I don't
have any recollection, that I did look into the file.
Mr. COLEMAN. Is it fair to say that you would not just initial it
merely because somebody else had drafted it?
Mr. SEELEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. COLEMAN. And normally you would look through the file?
Mr. SEELEY. Yes, sir; in the normal course of business I would look at
the file--see what my own conclusion was.
Mr. COLEMAN. After you drafted or after you initialed the memorandum
which has been marked as Seeley Exhibit No. 6, what was the next
occasion you had to look at the Oswald file?
Mr. SEELEY. The next occasion concerned the two items that are
identified as X-5.
Mr. COLEMAN. Could we mark as Seeley Exhibit No. 7 a photostatic copy
of an article which appeared in the Washington Post on Saturday, June
9, 1962, and also attached is a reference slip.
(The document referred to was marked Seeley Exhibit No. 7 for
identification.)
Mr. COLEMAN. Are they the two items that you refer to?
Mr. SEELEY. Yes, sir; they are.
Mr. COLEMAN. Now, I take it you just read this and put it in the file.
Mr. SEELEY. I would presume that I cut this article out. I see that it
is my printing on the side there where it says "Oswald, Lee Harvey" on
the right-hand side.
Mr. COLEMAN. That is your printing?
Mr. SEELEY. Yes, sir; and I would presume that I saw the article in the
newspaper, cut it out and brought it to be filed with this case.
Mr. COLEMAN. Sir, I show you a sheet which has the word "Refusal"
Commission Exhibit No. 962, and ask you whether that hand printing that
appears there is your printing, too?
Mr. SEELEY. No, sir; that is not. I have looked at that. It doesn't
look like mine.
Mr. COLEMAN. Now, after you put this newspaper article in the file, did
you have anything else to do with the file?
Mr. SEELEY. Yes; I sent this item, this is CS, these items to our
Special Services, Miss Waters.
Mr. COLEMAN. Do you know what she did?
Mr. SEELEY. No; I don't. I have no recollection. I see that it was as
requested. It may have been a telephone request.
Mr. COLEMAN. Did you have anything else to do with the file?
Mr. SEELEY. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. COLEMAN. What was that?
Mr. SEELEY. That was on October 22, 1963.
Mr. COLEMAN. What occasioned your looking at the file on October 22,
1963?
Mr. SEELEY. I am looking right now at State Department Exhibit X-3.
Mr. COLEMAN. And what occasioned your looking at the file on October
22, 1963?
Mr. SEELEY. It was the transmittal from INR of the Department
transmitting a secret--well, I know what it is, a CIA document,
telegram, to the Passport Office.
Mr. COLEMAN. Can you recall what the CIA telegram said?
Mr. SEELEY. The telegram said in effect that Lee Oswald had appeared
or had contacted, I believe was the word, the Soviet Embassy in Mexico
City in October 1963.
Mr. COLEMAN. Now, did the telegram also indicate that Oswald was the
person who in 1959 had attempted to defect?
Mr. SEELEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. COLEMAN. Now, when you got the telegram on your desk, did you also
get the file with it?
Mr. SEELEY. Yes, sir; the passport file.
Mr. COLEMAN. That came to you at the same time, or did you get the
telegram and then send for the file?
Mr. SEELEY. I had the whole thing. I am morally certain on this, that
I had the whole file. I can tell by the reconstruction on this. Mr.
Ritchie and myself have discussed this. We are both sure how this went
about.
Do you want me to give this reconstruction?
Mr. COLEMAN. You can, if you wish to; yes.
Mr. SEELEY. I notice that there was a little note. "Mr. Anderson pull
previous." "Previous" means to pull the file, whatever file there is.
This was on October 17. The file was pulled according to our records in
our office on October 17 or 18, I forget the exact date. It was within
a day or so thereafter this. And I presume that this was first reviewed
by Mr. Ritchie and then reviewed by myself.
Mr. COLEMAN. When you pulled the file which is the State Department
file X----
Mr. SEELEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. COLEMAN. Did you send for the security file?
Mr. SEELEY. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. COLEMAN. Why wouldn't you send for the security file if you get
a telegram from a security agency saying that the gentleman who was
down at the Russian Embassy in Mexico City is the same guy who in 1959
attempted to defect?
Mr. SEELEY. I looked at this report strictly from a passport office
point of view. The significance which, of course, might have great
intelligence significance, had little or no significance insofar as any
action that we would take in the Passport Office is concerned.
Mr. COLEMAN. Why would that be, sir?
Mr. SEELEY. Well, we have to have some basis under our regulations to
take any action.
Mr. COLEMAN. I mean why, if you get information which you can
immediately realize may have intelligence significance, why wouldn't
you look at it from a point of view of intelligence?
Mr. SEELEY. Well, I am working for the Passport Office. Certainly, if
I saw something that I could do something about, I would take whatever
action I thought was necessary.
Mr. COLEMAN. Why didn't you, for example, write a letter to the FBI
saying that this fellow is down in Mexico City, are you interested, or
do you want to see the file?
Mr. SEELEY. Well, I would say the probability is that a copy of this
was apparently furnished to the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
Mr. COLEMAN. And you noted that, I take it, at the time of reviewing
the file?
Mr. SEELEY. I have no independent recollection that I did.
Mr. COLEMAN. But the fair assumption is that you did?
Mr. SEELEY. I would assume that.
Mr. COLEMAN. I take it that is also the reason why you didn't notify
the CIA, because the telegram had come from the CIA?
Mr. SEELEY. Yes; from the CIA.
Mr. COLEMAN. When you looked at the file, did you know or were you
aware after looking at the file that Oswald in June 1963 had been
issued a passport?
Mr. SEELEY. I presume I was. The passport is the next item there, and I
am sure that I looked at it and saw that he did have a passport.
Mr. COLEMAN. Did you after you looked at it say to yourself "can we
revoke this passport?"
Mr. SEELEY. I am sure that is why I looked at it. I am sure of that,
Mr. Coleman, that I looked at it with that view in mind, if there was
any action to be taken of that sort.
Mr. COLEMAN. Did you know that he had defected or attempted to defect
in 1959?
Mr. SEELEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. COLEMAN. Did you know that when he attempted to defect that he
had indicated that he was going to pass some radar information to the
Russians if they gave him citizenship?
Mr. SEELEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. COLEMAN. Did you know that the Soviet desk had indicated in 1961 or
1962 that it would be to the interests of the United States to get him
out of Russia and back to the United States?
Mr. SEELEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. COLEMAN. Did you note in his passport application for his 1963
passport that he indicated that one of the countries that he intended
to travel to was Russia?
Mr. SEELEY. I don't have an independent recollection of that. I presume
I did note that.
Mr. COLEMAN. And you are saying with all that information that you
would look at that file, I take it you did it on October 22?
Mr. SEELEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. COLEMAN. Read it and just put it back and did nothing about it?
Mr. SEELEY. I did nothing about it other than to note the fact that I
had read the telegram.