Mr. JENNER. Did you have any preliminary discussions with the people
you were going to have on your programs?
Mr. STUCKEY. Yes, yes; sometimes I took up to 3 to 4 days to prepare a
5-minute broadcast.
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mr. STUCKEY. Actually it is 5 minutes which demands about 700 words,
which was just about as long or longer than the column that I used to
write, so these columns, 700 words, which would run about a column and
a half of type in the paper, consumed within a 5-minute period on the
broadcast. Anything else along that line?
Mr. JENNER. I think that covers it generally. Tell us the nature of
your work with Tulane University.
Mr. STUCKEY. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. You became associated with Tulane when?
Mr. STUCKEY. In January, January 6.
Mr. JENNER. Of this year?
Mr. STUCKEY. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. What is the nature of that work?
Mr. STUCKEY. I write a syndicated column on higher education. The
column is called Dimension in Education. We deal with all manner of
events and affairs affecting higher education, and sometimes things
that do not affect higher education. I roam the spectrum of interest in
the things. It is extremely interesting.
I sometimes write about such things as the Common Market, the
humanities versus science, all this sort of thing, all the current
controversies we get into.
Mr. JENNER. Is that in the nature of public relations work?
Mr. STUCKEY. Yes; very soft shell public relations. Sometimes we don't
even mention Tulane. It is just that I think probably Tulane just wants
to be established as a fount of wisdom in this particular field, and
that is why they print these reports.
Mr. JENNER. During the year 1963, did an event occur, a series of
events occur, in which you became acquainted with a man by the name of
Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. STUCKEY. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. In your own words, taking it from the very first instant of
the course of events, perhaps even before you met this man, tell us in
your own words, and it doesn't have to be chronological, but the way
you would put it out, about it.
Mr. STUCKEY. Fine. As I told you before, as a Latin American columnist
and one interested in affairs, I had been looking for some time in New
Orleans for representatives of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. There
haven't been any. Most of the organizations that I had contact with in
my work----
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me--how did you learn about the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee?
Mr. STUCKEY. I was going to get to that.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mr. STUCKEY. Most of the organizations that I had contact with were
refugee organizations, very violently anti-Castro groups, and there
were a number of them in New Orleans. These people were news sources
for me also. I used them quite frequently. One day, I think it was
in August, the latter part of July of 1963, I was in the bank, and I
ran across a refugee friend of mine by the name of Carlos Bringuier.
Bringuier told me----
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me--identify Mr. Bringuier.
Mr. STUCKEY. Mr. Bringuier at that time was the New Orleans delegate to
the Revolutionary Student Directorate which was an anti-Castro group
with headquarters in Miami. He also ran a clothing store called Casa
Roca. He was an attorney in Havana before the Revolution, the Cuban
Revolution of 1958, and had been very active ever since I had known
him in New Orleans in anti-Castro activity. I had interviewed him on
a number of occasions in connection with Cuban current events. Mr.
Bringuier ran into me in the bank, and I spoke to him and he said that
a representative of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee had appeared in
New Orleans and that he had had an encounter with him shortly before.
Mr. JENNER. That interested you?
Mr. STUCKEY. Yes, very much, very much, because I knew something of the
reputation of this group. I regarded them as being about the leading
pro-Castro organization in this country, a propaganda organ for the
Castro forces, and I had done a considerable amount of reading of
congressional testimony, articles, and this sort of thing about their
activities. Mr. Bringuier said he had had an encounter with a young man
who was representing the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in New Orleans.
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me--you had known Bringuier and you had had contact
with him; had he ever been on your program up to this moment that you
speak of?
Mr. STUCKEY. No; he had never been on my program, but, as a
newspaperman, I had contacted him quite frequently for information.
Mr. JENNER. Proceed.
Mr. STUCKEY. He told me that--this is in the bank--a few days before, I
don't recall exactly----
Mr. JENNER. This was a chance meeting?
Mr. STUCKEY. This was a chance meeting with Mr. Bringuier. I was
cashing my paycheck and Bringuier told me a few days before he had
run into this fellow in his store, this Casa Roca--this young man had
approached him.
Mr. JENNER. A young man had come in?
Mr. STUCKEY. A young man. At the time he had mentioned no name. If he
had, it wouldn't have made any difference to me because the name meant
nothing.
He said a young man came in, introduced himself and said he was a
veteran of the Marine Corps, he had just gotten out, and that he was
very disturbed by this Cuban situation and he wanted to do something
about hurting Castro, or trying to change the regime. He, in some
way----
Mr. JENNER. This was something this up-to-the-moment unnamed young man
had said to Mr. Bringuier?
Mr. STUCKEY. Had said to Mr. Bringuier as Bringuier recounted it to me
later. I am telling you Bringuier's story now.
Mr. JENNER. Yes; I wanted to make clear that you were.
Mr. STUCKEY. Right. Now, this young man said somehow he knew Bringuier
was connected with the Revolutionary Student Directorate, how, I don't
know. But, at any rate, as I said, he offered his services.
Then he presented a Marine Corps Handbook to Bringuier. He said, "This
might help you out in your guerrilla activities and such. This is my
own personal Marine Corps Handbook", which Bringuier accepted. That
was the gist of the conversation. Bringuier told me that sometime
after that, I don't recall exactly how long it was, he was walking
on Canal Street, the main street of New Orleans, about a block away
from his store, and he ran into this young man again. This time he was
distributing literature, handbills, and the handbills said, "Hands
Off Cuba", and on the handbill it said, "Join the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee in New Orleans, Charter Member Branch".
It was this same young man. Bringuier, who was a rather excitable
fellow, and he couldn't understand why this fellow was now distributing
pro-Castro literature whereas a short time before he had posed as an
anti-Castro man. So Bringuier got into a shouting match with him on the
street corner, and I think some blows were exchanged, I am not sure.
Mr. JENNER. Bringuier is again telling you this?
Mr. STUCKEY. This is what Bringuier is telling me, because I did not
witness this. At any rate, regardless of what happened, I don't know
the exact sequence of events, the police arrived on the scene and took
everybody down to the jail. Oswald was booked for disturbing the peace,
and I think later fined $10, and let go. Well, this is what Bringuier
told me in the bank.
Mr. JENNER. I may assume up to this moment you had not seen anything in
the newspapers on this subject?
Mr. STUCKEY. No; I hadn't. There wouldn't have been anything in the
newspaper had it not been in my column, and my column at that time did
not exist.
Mr. JENNER. I see.
Mr. STUCKEY. So I mentioned to Bringuier that I was interested in
locating this fellow and talking to him. Bringuier gave me his name.
Mr. JENNER. Do you recall that this was the early part of August?
Mr. STUCKEY. Or the latter part of July, I am not really sure. It
wasn't--I would say probably the early part of August. It was a Friday.
I can tell you that.
Mr. JENNER. It was August 9, 1963.
Mr. STUCKEY. That is quite possible. So I inquired as to the name and
the address of this fellow, and telephone, if any, and Bringuier said
his name was Lee Oswald, and he lived on Magazine Street, somewhere in
the 4000 block, I forget the exact address, and he had no telephone.
This was a Friday. My program is on a Saturday.
I decided that early the next morning I would go by this address
and ask Oswald if he would appear on my program. So very early, it
was about 8 o'clock the following--wait a minute, I am losing some
chronology. This was not the next Saturday. Then some time elapsed,
and, at any rate, it was August 17 when I went by his house. I forget
now exactly why this time did elapse, but it did.
Mr. JENNER. Had he again distributed handbills?
Mr. STUCKEY. To my knowledge; no. He may have. He may have. But, of
course, I had no particular interest in it, and the papers were not
carrying stories about it, and I, well, just had no contact with him at
all.
I did not meet him until August 17, at which time I went by his house
on Magazine Street to ask him to appear on my program. This was early
in the morning, about 8 o'clock. I went early because I wanted to get
him before he left.
Mr. JENNER. This was a Saturday?
Mr. STUCKEY. It is a Saturday. I knocked on the door, and this young
fellow came out, without a shirt. He had a pair of Marine Corps fatigue
trousers on. I asked him, "Are you Lee Oswald?" And he said "Yes."
I introduced myself and I told him I would like to have him on my
program that night. So he asked me in on the porch. This was a screened
porch, and I had a very brief chat. He said he would ask me inside for
some coffee but that his wife and his baby were sleeping so we had
better talk on the porch.
Mr. JENNER. Describe this Magazine Street place. Were you able to find
it easily?
Mr. STUCKEY. Yes; no problem. It was on the side of the house--or the
entrance was on the side.
Mr. JENNER. Was on the side and somewhat back from the front?
Mr. STUCKEY. Yes; it was facing the street; it wasn't facing the side
of the property, but it was offset, to the rear.
Mr. JENNER. Frame house?
Mr. STUCKEY. Yes; it was a frame house, as well as I recall.
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mr. STUCKEY. So we had a few cursory remarks there about the
organization. He showed me his membership card to the Fair Play for
Cuba Committee, which was interesting, and it identified him as
the secretary of the New Orleans chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee, and it was signed by A. Hidell, president.
Mr. JENNER. Was that president or secretary?
Mr. STUCKEY. President, A. Hidell. He was identified on the card, as I
recall, as the secretary.
Mr. JENNER. That is, Oswald?
Mr. STUCKEY. Oswald; yes. It was a card on which there was a
handwritten--it said "Mr." and then a blank, and a handwritten name
"Lee Oswald" was in the center of the card. In the lower right-hand
corner it was signed by A. Hidell, president.
Mr. JENNER. Was this name familiar to you?
Mr. STUCKEY. No; as a matter of fact, I would like to explain this,
that the name meant nothing to me at all, and the name never occurred
to me again, I never thought of the name again, until after the
assassination when Mr. Henry Wade of Dallas on television on a Sunday,
I believe, mentioned that Oswald purchased a rifle from a Chicago
mail-order house and had used the name A. Hidell in purchasing the
rifle. When he said "A. Hidell" it hit me like, it was like a light
bulb over my head, I recalled the name. Otherwise I would never have
remembered the name.
Oswald gave me some pieces of literature at this time. There were
several--I will mention them if you would like.
Mr. JENNER. I wish you would.
Mr. STUCKEY. There were two speeches by Fidel Castro. One was "The
Revolution Must Be a School of Unfettered Thought." Another was
"Bureaucracy and Sectarianism." There was a pamphlet by Jean Paul
Sartre, and this pamphlet was called "Ideology and Revolution."
There was a pamphlet called "The Crime Against Cuba," by Corliss
Lamont. I believe that is all the literature that he gave me at that
time. I got some subsequently to that which, incidentally, Mr. Jenner.
I promised you that pamphlet the last time I saw you, and I couldn't
find it, but I have since found it, and I brought it up for you. I will
give it to you now before I forget.
Mr. JENNER. Yes. I will show you what is marked Garner Exhibit No. 1
and ask you if you recognize the person shown on that photograph.
Mr. STUCKEY. Yes; that is Lee Oswald.
Mr. JENNER. Does it look like him as of the time that you interviewed
him on Saturday, August 17?
Mr. STUCKEY. Almost exactly. He was dressed almost in exactly the same
way, with a short-sleeved dress shirt, and a tie, and a black looseleaf
notebook under his arm which apparently he used as a holder for
literature.
Mr. JENNER. I hand you a series of exhibits, Pizzo Exhibits Nos. 453-A,
453-B, and 453-C. Would you examine those and tell me whether your
friend, Mr. Bringuier, is shown on any of those photographs?
Mr. STUCKEY. He is not there.
Mr. JENNER. You were referring to Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-A; he is not on
that one?
Mr. STUCKEY. No. Pizzo Exhibit 453-C is of Oswald alone.
Mr. JENNER. Pizzo Exhibit 453-C is a picture of Oswald?
Mr. STUCKEY. Yes. Pizzo Exhibit 453-B is also Oswald, but Bringuier is
not in the picture.
Mr. JENNER. All right. We will mark the pamphlet you have brought with
you, which is entitled "The Cuban 'Episode' and the American Press:
April 9-23, 1961" as Stuckey Exhibit No. 1.
(The pamphlet was marked Stuckey Exhibit No. 1 for identification.)
Mr. JENNER. Handing you Stuckey Exhibit No. 1, being a 15-page
pamphlet--I guess it is 16 including the back cover--is that one of the
pamphlets that he handed to you and exhibited to you on August 17 and
Saturday morning when you interviewed him in his home?
Mr. STUCKEY. No; this is not one. I received this pamphlet that night
when he showed up at the radio station.
Mr. JENNER. We will go into it later on, but I think for purposes of
identification, was it a pamphlet that he gave you?
Mr. STUCKEY. Yes; he gave it to me.
Mr. JENNER. Prior to the radio broadcast you are about to describe?
Mr. STUCKEY. Immediately prior to that. Incidentally, I requested all
the literature that he had.
Mr. JENNER. You did?
Mr. STUCKEY. Yes; and he gave me everything he could find that morning
which were the four or five pieces I have already described. Then at
night he says, "Look, I found this also", and he brought this.
Mr. JENNER. Meaning Stuckey Exhibit No. 1?
Mr. STUCKEY. Stuckey Exhibit No. 1.
Mr. JENNER. I offer Stuckey Exhibit No. 1 in evidence. All right, we
had you still on Saturday morning talking with him at his home on
Magazine Street.
Mr. STUCKEY. Right. We discussed literature, his literature, the pieces
of information I have already described. He showed me the Fair Play
for Cuba Committee membership card. I asked him about the membership
of this organization, and he said there were quite a few, quite a few
members. The figure 12 or 13 sticks in my head. I don't really recall
why now. There were that many officers or something like that, 12 or
13 people he mentioned that he was responsible to, or active workers,
something like that, although I guess I shouldn't mention it until I
have a more coherent idea of why he used that.
Mr. JENNER. Just give your best recollection of what he said on that
occasion.
Mr. STUCKEY. Right. Also as I recall, he was very vehement, insisting
he was not the president, but was the secretary, and that was the
occasion in which he pulled out his card showing that he was the
secretary, not the president, and this other gentleman, Hidell, was the
president.
Mr. JENNER. Did that strike you in any special way that he was
apparently careful to point out to you that he was secretary instead of
president?
Mr. STUCKEY. No; it made no impression on me, none whatsoever. It
seemed logical. He appeared to be a very logical, intelligent fellow,
and the only strange thing about him was his organization. This was,
seemed, incongruous to me that a group of this type--or he should
associate with a group of this type, because he did not seem the type
at all, or at least what I have in my mind as the type.
I would like to mention this. I was arrested by his cleancutness. I
didn't expect this at all. I expected a folk-singer type, something of
that kind, somebody with a beard and sandals, and he said--I found this
fellow, instead I found this fellow who was neat and clean, watched
himself pretty well.