PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION
ON THE ASSASSINATION OF
PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY
STATE OF TEXAS,
_County of Tarrant, ss_:
Alexander Kleinlerer of 3542 Kent Street, Fort Worth, Texas, being duly
sworn, says:
1. My name is Alexander Kleinlerer and I do now reside and for several
years last pass have resided at the above address.
2. I am and have for several years been a foreign representative of
Loma Industries, a plastics production company, located at 3000 West
Pafford Street, Fort Worth, Texas. I am 41 years of age and single.
I was born in Poland of Polish parents both of whom died in German
concentration camps during World War II. During the War I lost all
members of my family, not only my immediate family, but my relatives
as well, other than a sister in Paris, France who is still alive and
a cousin who once resided in Russia but who now lives in Poland. The
area in Poland in which I and my family and relatives resided was
overrun by the German Army. I was confined in Buchenwald concentration
camp until 1945 when I was liberated by General Patton's forces. I
immediately moved to Czechoslovakia and then to France. In May of 1956,
I journeyed from France to the United States and found employment with
Loma Industries. I returned to France as a foreign representative for
that company in November of 1957 and remained there until June of 1961
when I returned to the United States. In due course thereafter I became
a naturalized citizen of the United States in May 1963.
3. I speak a number of European languages well. As a result I have
become acquainted with numerous foreign language speaking individuals
in the Fort Worth-Dallas area. These include, insofar as the Oswald
incident is concerned, Anna Meller, George Bouhe, Mr. and Mrs. George
deMohrenschildt, Mr. and Mrs. Max Clark, Mrs. Elena Hall, Lydia
Dymitruk, Mr. and Mrs. Declan P. Ford and Mr. and Mrs. Igor Vladimir
Voshinin.
4. During 1962, I was enamoured of and was courting Mrs. Elena Hall who
was then divorced from her husband John. I first become acquainted with
Lee Harvey and Marina Oswald on a Sunday morning in the fore part of
September 1962. I was working in Mrs. Hall's garage at 4760 Trail Lake
Drive, Fort Worth, Texas, building wooden baffles for stereo speakers.
George Bouhe, a valued friend of mine, drove up in his automobile
accompanied by Oswald, Marina and their infant child. I was introduced
to Oswald and to Marina. Oswald somewhat stiffly acknowledged the
introduction but was laconic and uncommunicative thereafter. They had
come to inquire of Mrs. Hall about dental problems of Marina's. I have
a fairly distinct recollection that Mrs. Anna Meller also accompanied
the group on this occasion. Mrs. Hall is a dental technician employed
by the Patterson Dental Laboratory in Fort Worth. The group was seeking
Mrs. Hall's help as to where a low cost dentist or clinic could be
found where they might take Marina for dental care, having in mind that
the Oswalds were in straitened financial circumstances. I do not recall
what the result of this conversation was in that connection as I did
not accompany the group when they went into Mrs. Hall's home.
5. Thereafter during September, while the Oswalds still resided on
Mercedes Street near the Montgomery Ward store, I visited there with
Mrs. Hall on two occasions. The reason for the earliest of these
additional occasions was that Mrs. Hall and George Bouhe had asked me
to inquire among the girls in my office for dresses and other wearing
apparel for Marina. I collected some sweaters, skirts and a dress or
two. Mrs. Hall also inquired among her friends and collected some
things. We put these together in one package and Mrs. Hall and I drove
to the Oswald apartment on Mercedes Street to deliver the package. We
were shocked to find that the Oswald child had no baby crib or bed but
was kept on the floor in the bedroom either in a suitcase or between
two suitcases.
6. Within a few days we returned to the Oswalds with a baby bed that
Mrs. Hall had obtained from some friend. We purchased a mattress for
the baby bed and delivered these items to the Oswalds at the Mercedes
Street apartment.
7. There was another occasion when I was at the Mercedes Street
apartment. George Bouhe had called me and asked me to meet him there.
This had nothing to do with the Oswalds. George Bouhe and I are good
friends and he was calling to say that he was going to be in Fort Worth
at the Oswalds and asked me to drop by so we could have a friendly
visit. On this occasion I saw the Oswalds briefly. I recall that Anna
Meller came with George Bouhe and there was an older lady whose name
I do not now recall. I remember that Oswald and Marina were seated
at the dining table eating. We were sitting there talking with Mr.
George Bouhe when suddenly Oswald noticed there was no butter on the
table. He rose red faced and angry and in our presence rudely and in a
domineering and overbearing manner, and as though Marina was a mere
chattel, proceeded to vigourously reprimand her. It was like a sergeant
bullying a new recruit. We were all embarrassed and shocked.
8. Mrs. Hall was injured in an automobile accident in Fort Worth the
evening of October 18, 1962. Marina and the child were residing in Mrs.
Hall's home at this time. They had come to Mrs. Hall's home earlier in
the month because Oswald had, we understood, lost his job and it had
been agreed among Mrs. Hall, George Bouhe and the others that Oswald
would go to Dallas to seek employment and Marina would stay with Mrs.
Hall. Mrs. Hall was released from the hospital in the latter part of
October, I think around October 26th. She spent a few days at home and
on October 30, 1962, a date which I have checked from a receipt that
I have, she left Fort Worth for Garden City, New York, to visit with
friends. While away on this trip she was reunited with and remarried
her former husband John Hall. My recollection is that they returned to
Fort Worth about the 11th or 12th of November 1962, and in any event
by the 15th. While Mrs. Hall was in the hospital and while she was
visiting in New York, I frequently called at the Hall home during my
lunch period (usually about 1:00 p.m.), at the request of Mrs. Hall, to
inquire of Marina's needs and her welfare and to see that matters about
the house were all right. I reported regularly to Mrs. Hall what my
impressions were.
9. During the periods Mrs. Hall was in the hospital and later in New
York, Oswald came to the Hall home on several occasions on Friday night
and stayed until late Sunday afternoon or early Sunday evening when he
returned by bus to Dallas. Mrs. Hall's home is approximately 12 to 14
miles from the business district of Fort Worth, and it is approximately
30 to 32 miles from the Fort Worth business district to the business
district of Dallas. A trip from Mrs. Hall's home to Dallas involves in
travel some 40 or more miles.
10. I distinctly recall the occasion upon which and the circumstances
under which Marina left Mrs. Hall's and was taken by Oswald and George
deMohrenschildt's daughter Alexandra and her husband Gary Taylor to
Dallas to live. It was on a Sunday while Mrs. Hall was in New York.
My recollection is that it was in the fore part of November on the
Sunday preceding the return of Mr. and Mrs. Hall from New York. On the
preceding Friday evening the phone rang in my apartment. It was Marina.
She said that she was going to leave the Halls and go to Dallas to
live with Oswald. At this point Oswald interrupted and spoke on the
telephone saying to me in a commanding way that they were going to
move into Dallas that coming week-end and he directed me to come by
the next day. I came by the Halls the next day, which was Saturday, in
the morning. Marina and Oswald were there. I entered the house. Marina
was in the living room with her child in her arms. We had just begun
to discuss the matter of moving the next day when Oswald observed that
the zipper on Marina's skirt was not completely closed. He called to
her in a very angry and commanding tone of voice just like an officer
commanding a soldier. His exact words were, "Come Here!", in the
Russian Language, and he uttered them the way you would call a dog with
which you were displeased in order to inflict punishment on him. He was
standing in the doorway leading from the living room into another room
of the house. When she reached the doorway he rudely reprimanded her in
a flat imperious voice about being careless in her dress and slapped
her hard in the face twice. Marina still had the baby in her arms. Her
face was red and tears came to her eyes. All this took place in my
presence. I was very much embarrassed and also angry but I had long
been afraid of Oswald and I did not say anything.
11. The arrangements for moving the following day were discussed. I was
to be there to supervise the removal of the Oswald paraphernalia and to
lock up the Hall residence.
12. When I arrived at the Hall's residence on that Sunday morning,
Marina and George deMohrenschildt's daughter, Alexandra Taylor, were
there. Oswald and Gary Taylor, the husband of Alexandra, George
deMohrenschildt's daughter, were off somewhere in Fort Worth seeking
to rent a "U-Haul-It" automobile trailer into which the Oswald
paraphernalia was to be placed. Most of the Oswald goods that had
been stored in Mrs. Hall's garage and which had been in her home were
already packed in preparation for placing in the "U-Haul-It" trailer.
Oswald and Gary Taylor returned in due course, in Taylor's automobile
with the trailer hooked on behind. Taylor among other occupations, was
a taxi driver in Dallas at this time.
13. I had met both Alexandra and Gary Taylor at the Hall's on a prior
occasion. This was a weekday evening after Mrs. Hall returned from
the hospital. They had been eating dinner at Mrs. Hall's home. I came
to visit Mrs. Hall and was surprised to see them all at the table. Of
course I left immediately since I hadn't been invited to the dinner.
The Taylors brought Oswald with them in Taylor's car so that Oswald
could visit Marina.
14. I supervised the placing of the Oswald goods and wearing apparel
in the "U-Haul-It" trailer. There were several instances in which I
had to intervene when Oswald picked up some of Mrs. Hall's things to
place in the trailer. I could not say whether this was deliberate or
inadvertent, except that there were several instances. My recollection
is that Oswald and Taylor had obtained the trailer at a service station
in Fort Worth. It seems to me it was a place somewhere on Barry Street.
In due course the loading was completed. They got into Taylor's
automobile and drove off. I understood from the telephone conversation
on Friday night and my visit with the Oswalds at the Halls on Saturday,
and the conversations that took place on Sunday, that the Oswalds were
moving into an apartment in Dallas which Oswald had very recently
rented. This was the last time I ever saw either of the Oswalds or had
any contact with them. I had arrived at Mrs. Hall's around 1:00 p.m.
and they departed around 3:30 p.m.
15. I recall that while Marina was staying at the Halls, and either
before Mrs. Hall went to the hospital, or during the four or five days
she was at home before departing for New York, that Oswald telephoned
to speak with Marina. This was on a Saturday evening.
16. I recall the time that Oswald reported he had lost his job at
Leslie Welding Company. It was the first week-end in October 1962.
My recollection is that it was agreed that Marina would come to Mrs.
Hall's house to stay while Oswald looked for a job in Dallas. I am
uncertain whether Marina was brought directly to the Halls from the
Mercedes Street apartment. There may have been something about Marina
being taken to the Taylors' apartment in Dallas for a few days so that
she could have some dental care at the Baylor University Clinic in
Dallas. I do recall clearly that Mrs. Hall had a pickup truck which
was owned by the dental laboratory where she was employed. Mrs. Hall
had permission to drive to and from work with the pickup truck. It
was agreed that the Oswald household goods and other paraphernalia
would be moved to the Halls in the pickup truck. It may well be that
Marina went directly to the Taylors; that the Oswald household goods
and paraphernalia was taken to the Halls; and that Marina came to the
Halls when her dental care at Baylor Clinic was completed. I understand
Marina's appointments were on October 8th, 10th and 15th. It is my
recollection, however, that the Oswald goods were packed in the trailer
by John Hall and Mrs. Hall and were taken to the Halls. It may be that
Oswald helped. My impression is that this was done on a Monday, but
since, as I have now been advised, Oswald apparently worked at Leslie
Welding Company on Monday, October 8th, that the transfer of the Oswald
goods did not take place until Monday night after Oswald returned from
his last working day at Leslie Welding Company. It was at Mrs. Hall's
invitation that Marina went to live at Mrs. Hall's house.
17. In any event, I recall that nothing was heard from Oswald for a
number of days after Marina came to Mrs. Halls to live. I assumed he
was in Dallas, and knowing that the distance between Dallas and Mrs.
Hall's home in Fort Worth was great, I thought relatively nothing of
this, except that I thought that he should have telephoned.
18. On a good many of the occasions that I dropped by the Hall
residence during my luncheon hour, I found that Marina had not yet
awakened. I would have to arouse her by ringing the door bell and
banging on the front door. I would find the household unkept, unwashed
dishes in the sink or on the eating table, and her's and the baby's
clothing strewn about the room. Marina would come to the door in a
wrap-around, her hair disheveled and her eyes heavy with the effect of
many hours of sleep. She would make some excuses about sleeping late.
On other occasions I was frequently in the Hall home when Mrs. Hall was
home in the evenings and on weekends. I noticed that Marina did nothing
to help Mrs. Hall in the house. Mrs. Hall often complained to me that
Marina was lazy, that she slept until noon or thereabouts, and would
not do anything around the house to help. I observed on many occasions
that Marina was not neat and that she often dressed rather haphazardly.
19. I was concerned and suspicious about Oswald from the outset. I
could not understand how he had been able to go to Russia and return
with seeming ease, especially since he had attempted to defect and
because I was aware that my cousin had not been able to get his wife
and child out of Russia although he now lives in Poland. Also, I was
alarmed from the outset by Oswald's talk. Other friends told me he
frequently compared conditions here in America with those in Russia to
the detriment of America and he did this in a way that was contemptuous
of America. They said he would repeatedly say that there was no
unemployment in Russia but that there was a lot of it in America; that
capitalists in America lived off the workers. They said he argued that
in Russia medical attention and care was at hand and was free, whereas
in America you either had to pay doctors or hospitals or that even in
clinics you always had to pay something.
20. I saw magazines about Russia in the Oswald apartment on Mercedes
Street. Some were in the Russian language and some were in English.
There were also newspapers in the Russian language.
21. I have always been very grateful to America. Americans have been
very kind to me and I think a good deal of this country. It upset me
when Oswald would say things against the United States. I did not argue
with him because he appeared to me to be dangerous in his mind and I
was frightened. I once said to him that, unlike him, I had come to this
country for freedom and not to look for trouble by criticizing the
United States; that while I did not have much money, I did have freedom
and opportunity and Americans were kind to me.
22. I and Mrs. Hall, Mrs. Meller, George Bouhe, and the others were
disturbed that Oswald flatly declined to make any effort to teach
Marina English. He said he wanted to keep his Russian sharpened up. We
thought this was very selfish of him. He would speak to other members
of our group in Russian. I refused to discuss anything with him in
Russian. I told him that if he wanted to talk with me he would have
to talk to me in English; that he was born and raised in this country
and his national tongue was English and he should be proud to speak
English. I never answered him at any time in Russian. I thought at
times he was bent on making Marina dissatisfied with the United States
and also that he did not want her to have friends.
23. He treated Marina very poorly. He belittled her and was boorish to
her in our presence. He talked to her and ordered her around just as
though she were a mere chattel. He was never polite or tender to her. I
feel very strongly that she was frightened of him. The only occasion I
saw him physically mistreat her was the occasion I have mentioned but I
heard repeatedly from Mrs. Hall, George Bouhe, and others that Oswald
was physically mistreating her.
24. Oswald was not grateful for any of the help that was being accorded
to him and Marina. He never once offered to contribute in even a
small way to Mrs. Hall or any of the others with whom Marina stayed.
This was often a topic of conversation among us. We did not have much
money ourselves and we were knocking ourselves out to help. He did not
express any thanks or evidence the slightest appreciation; in fact, he
evidenced displeasure and contempt.
25. I expressed to Mrs. Hall and to my friend George Bouhe, and to
others that I thought that they were only worsening things because the
Oswalds did not appear appreciative of what was being done for them. He
acted as though the world owed him a living. I had the impression from
time to time that Marina was pretending and acting.
26. Oswald always acted toward her like a soldier commanding one of his
troops. My overall impression of Oswald was that he was angry with the
whole world and with himself to boot; that he really did not know what
he wanted; that he was frustrated because he was not looked up to; and
that he was dissatisfied with everything, including himself.
27. Mrs. Hall told me on several occasions that Marina had said to her
that she was quite afraid of Oswald and that when she got to know a
little more English she intended to leave him. Oswald did not care who
was present as far as his boorish attitude toward Marina was concerned.
It seemed that he did not care what others thought about anything.
28. Anna Meller, Mrs. Hall, George Bouhe and the deMohrenschildts, and
all that group had pity for Marina and her child. None of us cared
for Oswald because of his political philosophy, his criticism of the
United States, his apparent lack of interest in anyone but himself and
because of his treatment of Marina. Although the men were sometimes
skeptical about helping them out, the ladies were quite compassionate
about Marina and felt that she needed help not only because of
their straitened financial circumstances, but because of Oswald's
mistreatment of her.
29. I recall that when I saw the newspaper item in the Fort Worth paper
about Oswald returning from Russia with his Russian wife, I spoke to
Max Clark and his wife. They are good friends and fine people, and he
is a lawyer. We were all apprehensive about coming in contact with the
Oswalds but all the friends of mine later expressed the view that the
Federal Bureau of Investigation knew Oswald and Marina were coming into
this country, and if they did not do anything about it, it was probably
all right to have contact with them. I am afraid I never became
completely reassured.
30. Marina never had any money, not even pennies. Oswald would not give
any money to her. Consequently, when she lived with Mrs. Hall and later
with the others she and her baby were utterly dependent upon their
host. She could not buy even a package of cigarettes, and even had she
wished, she could not tender any token to her hosts.
Signed this 16th day of June 1964.
(S) Alexander Kleinlerer,
ALEXANDER KLEINLERER.