Mr. THORNLEY. Probably a secret clearance would be required.
Mr. JENNER. It was at least higher than the clearance about which you
first spoke?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. The clearance that you had in mind of which you first spoke
was the clearance to operate radar detection devices?
Mr. THORNLEY. Right.
Mr. JENNER. And your knowledge of his loss of clearance was by hearsay
or rumor. As I understand it the circumstances took place off base one
day?
Mr. THORNLEY. No; this was on base as I understand it. It was in an
enlisted club or staff sergeant's club, something of that nature.
Mr. JENNER. He had gotten into difficulty with a staff sergeant and had
poured beer on the person of a staff sergeant and gotten into some kind
of an altercation?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. As a result of that he was court-martialed and had been
subjected to the loss of clearance?
Mr. THORNLEY. That is correct.
Mr. JENNER. Was that clearance of his restored?
Mr. THORNLEY. I doubt it very much, because 3 months afterwards, after
I had left the outfit--I know it wasn't restored while I was in the
outfit.
Mr. JENNER. When did you leave the outfit?
Mr. THORNLEY. I left in June and went overseas.
Mr. JENNER. Up to that time his clearance had not been restored?
Mr. THORNLEY. Definitely not. And shortly thereafter he got out of the
service.
Mr. JENNER. So that as far as you have any personal knowledge Oswald
never operated any radar equipment while he was at El Toro, did you say?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes; El Toro, LTA. As far as my personal knowledge goes,
he didn't.
Mr. JENNER. Would you state the circumstances under which you became
acquainted--let me put it this way first. What was the extent of your
acquaintance with Lee Harvey Oswald, and here at the moment I am
directing myself only to whether you were friends, were you merely
on the base together? Indicate the level of friendship first or
acquaintanceship.
Mr. THORNLEY. I would say we were close acquaintances in the sense that
we weren't friends in that we didn't pull liberty together or seek
each other out, yet when we were thrown together in an assignment or
something, moving equipment, something of that nature, we spoke and
when we were on the base and happened to be in the same area and were
not required to be working, we would sometimes sit down and discuss
things. That would be my statement there.
Mr. JENNER. So there was a degree of affinity in the sense that you
were friendly in performing your military tasks together whenever you
were thrown together in that respect. You felt friendly toward each
other. You were never off base with him on liberty?
Mr. THORNLEY. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. There were times when you were at liberty on the base, I
assume, and you and he fraternized?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Now, did you live in the same quarters?
Mr. THORNLEY. Well, not actually. We lived in quonset huts there, and
he lived in a different hut than I did. We did live in the same general
area, however.
Mr. JENNER. This acquaintance arose in the spring of 1959, is that
correct?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Can you fix the time a little more definitely than merely
the spring?
Mr. THORNLEY. I really can't, sir. I have been racking my brain on
that one since November, and I can't fix the time. I do remember
having taken some time off that year around Easter and going on a trip
with some civilian friends of mine, who were out of school for Easter
vacation, and I know I was in the outfit that Oswald was in at that
time, and I know that either shortly before that trip or shortly
afterwards. I can remember from the books I was reading at the time and
things like that, that I met him.
Mr. JENNER. Do you associate the books you were reading at that time
with anything Oswald may have been reading?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes. Oswald was not reading but did advise me to read
George Orwell's "1984" which I read at that time.
Mr. JENNER. Was he on the base when you came there?
Mr. THORNLEY. Well, I was on the base in a different outfit before I
came into MACS 9, the outfit I was in.
Mr. JENNER. Marine Air Control Squadron.
Mr. THORNLEY. I was in MACS 4 which was right next door to MACS 9 or
was at that time, on the base.
Mr. JENNER. Were you aware of his presence when you were in the other
MACS?
Mr. THORNLEY. No; not until I came into his outfit. And only sometime
after I came into that outfit did I become aware of his presence.
Mr. JENNER. Were you--I will withdraw that. Was Oswald as far as you
knew on the base before you came over to his unit?
Mr. THORNLEY. I would assume so, but I wouldn't know for sure. I know
he was recently back from Japan as were most of the men in Marine
Control Squadron 9 when I came into it. How long he had been back I
don't know. I certainly didn't know at that time. And thinking on what
knowledge of him I have gained since then, I still couldn't say.
Mr. JENNER. Well, in any event you first became acquainted with or
aware of his presence around Easter time in 1959?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And you were transferred from that base when?
Mr. THORNLEY. June.
Mr. JENNER. In June. So likely it was that you knew him in April, May,
and in June until you were transferred out?
Mr. THORNLEY. Right.
Mr. JENNER. When in June were you transferred out?
Mr. THORNLEY. Once again the exact date would be available in my
military record, but offhand----
Mr. JENNER. Give it to me as best you recall it, forepart, latter part,
middle?
Mr. THORNLEY. Let's see, it was toward the latter part. In fact, I can
give you pretty close to the exact date. It was around June 25, because
we arrived in Japan on July 4 and it took 11 days to get over there. It
took us some time to get debarked or to get embarked, rather.
Mr. JENNER. All right. I take it from the remark you have made in your
reflecting on this matter that you were--you devoted yourself to some
fairly considerable extent to reading?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And in what fields?
Mr. THORNLEY. Completely omniverous. Anything that I would happen
to get a hold of I would read. At that time I was reading, well, at
Oswald's advice I read "1984." At someone else's advice I was reading
a book called "Humanism," by Corliss Lamont, as I remember, and I was
reading either "The Brothers Karamazov" or the "Idiot" by Dostoievsky,
I forget which, at that time.
Mr. JENNER. But your reading had some reasonable amount of organization
or direction?
Mr. THORNLEY. None whatsoever; no, sir. It never has.
Mr. JENNER. I see. You weren't engaged in any organized reading at that
time, were you?
Mr. THORNLEY. No.
Mr. JENNER. But there were areas which did draw your attention by and
large?
Mr. THORNLEY. Definitely; yes.
Mr. JENNER. What were those areas?
Mr. THORNLEY. Philosophy, politics, religion.
Mr. JENNER. Did you find that Oswald had reasonably similar interests?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes; I would say.
Mr. JENNER. In his reading?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes; I would say particularly in politics and philosophy.
Mr. JENNER. Was it those mutual interests that brought about your
acquaintance with him or some other fashion?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes, sir; it was those interests. My first memory of him
is that one afternoon he was sitting on a bucket out in front of a
hut, an inverted bucket, with some other Marines. They were discussing
religion. I entered the discussion. It was known already in the outfit
that I was an atheist. Immediately somebody pointed out to me that
Oswald was also an atheist.
Mr. JENNER. Did they point that out to you in his presence?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. What reaction did he have to that?