Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Is that a job she was about to obtain?
Mr. PIC. I can only assume from the letter, sir; I have no other
knowledge of that.
Mr. JENNER. She makes a reference on that page "Haven't sold the house
as yet but have a good prospect." Calling your attention to the date,
June 9, 1950, what house was that?
Mr. PIC. I am sure this refers to the little house in Benbrook, sir.
Mr. JENNER. It refers to people called DeLogans. Who are they?
Mr. PIC. I assume these people were renting the house from her, I don't
remember them.
Mr. JENNER. That was a duplex of some kind?
Mr. PIC. No, sir; that was this little L-shaped house.
Mr. JENNER. In all this correspondence, Sergeant, by and large your
mother very frequently, if not all the time, refers to her straitened
circumstances, need for funds, and references to you having sent money.
In your testimony you have referred to conversations with her on the
subject and she raised the subject to you. Was that something that was
pretty constantly in her mind all the time?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir; it was.
Mr. JENNER. Did she talk about that subject at times when you were of
the opinion that she was not as straitened as she appears to report in
these letters?
Mr. PIC. Will you repeat that, please, sir?
Mr. JENNER. Would you read it, please, Mr. Reporter.
(The question, as recorded, was read by the reporter.)
Mr. PIC. I am sorry, sir; I don't understand your question.
Mr. JENNER. Were you of the opinion from time to time that on these
occasions when she talked about what appears to be that she was in
extremis with respect to finances when in fact she was not, she was
overstating this condition or status?
Mr. PIC. Yes; I believe she overstated it most of the time.
Mr. JENNER. Because there were purchases of houses, at least on the
installment plan, and she seemed to have capital to do that, did she
not?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir; she could always buy and sell a house some way or
other.
Mr. JENNER. What was your impression as to why she was doing this; to
impress you boys or was that just her fixation or personality trait?
Mr. PIC. It is my impression that she did it in order to make a profit
on every deal she got involved with.
Mr. JENNER. I am not thinking of a house sale as such. But that
question was more directed to her talking about her financial
circumstances.
Was she attempting to impress you boys that she was working herself
to the bone to support you and you should be more grateful than you
appeared to be, and that sort of thing?
Mr. PIC. That is practically verbatim, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Please; you say that is practically verbatim, you mean you
have uttered what was in her mind?
Mr. PIC. No; just about what she says. She said at those times.
Mr. JENNER. Were you under the impression that she was overstating in
that respect?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Was that likewise the feeling of your brother Robert?
Mr. PIC. Yes, I am sure it was.
Mr. JENNER. What was your impression as to whether your mother was
always sincere and straightforward with respect to that subject matter?
Mr. PIC. My opinion, sir; at the time was all she cared about was
getting hold of and making some money in some form or another. This is
her god, so to speak, was to get money. And to get as much out of me as
she could and as much out of Robert as she could.
Mr. JENNER. And as much out of anybody else as she could?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Was there any--you talk about the difficulties with Mr.
Ekdahl. Do you recall any discussions between them with respect to any
dissatisfaction on your mother's part with funds that were given her by
Mr. Ekdahl?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir; she always wanted more money out of him. That was
the basis of all the arguments.
Mr. JENNER. And was she complaining to him that he didn't give her
enough money?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Was your mother an extravagant person money-wise?
Mr. PIC. I don't know what she did with the money, sir. She bought very
little as far as clothes and things. We didn't eat steak every day.
We didn't eat that good. In fact, when I joined the service in 1950,
I was 118 pounds, and my weight prior to that was usually about 130,
140. I think within a month or two after I joined the service I was up
to 145 and none of my uniforms fit me. I was--there is a picture of me
in the Pasqual High School thing, and I am very thin. People couldn't
recognize me from that picture. I lost a lot of weight working, and not
eating too good. I would come home and have to fix my own meals.
Mr. JENNER. Was your mother attentive in that respect? Did she go out
of her way to have meals ready for you boys when you returned to home
either after work or after school or otherwise?
Mr. PIC. If there was a majority eating there was usually something set
aside for the lesser, which was kept warm in the oven.
Mr. JENNER. You mean the member of the family who was absent at
mealtime she would save something for him?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did you get the feeling, you and your brother, in due
course, that your mother's references to these financial needs at
times, at least when, to use the vernacular, she was crying wolf?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. These continued references by her to her financial needs,
did you think that had an effect on Lee as well as on yourself and your
brother?
Mr. PIC. It didn't affect me that much. I ignored most of them. If I
had money I sent it. If I didn't, that was it. Lee was brought up in
this atmosphere of constant money problems, and I am sure it had quite
an effect on him, and also Robert.
Mr. JENNER. In her letter enclosed in the envelope postmarked June 18,
1951----
Mr. PIC. What number is that, sir?
Mr. JENNER. That is Exhibits Nos. 19 and 19-A--she makes reference that
Robert has been saving his money since January to buy a car and "gives
me $15 a week and never spends a cent unless absolutely necessary (is
he tight) but he has saved $210 since the first of the year and is
hiding"----
Mr. PIC. Hitting.
Mr. JENNER. "For $400" and so on.
Mr. PIC. Before buying a car.
Mr. JENNER. "Won't loan me a penny, pays his room and board regularly.
He gets 2 weeks vacation with pay, I believe, will start in July."
Do you remember your mother attempting to borrow money from you?
Mr. PIC. When I went home on leave in 1950 with a hundred or so
dollars, like I mentioned before, she wanted to hold it, just about the
whole amount except for about $10 from me, so nothing would happen to
it, and I might get robbed or something, she felt. Whenever she could
she attempted to get a buck out of any of us.
Mr. JENNER. Did you get any of that money back?
Mr. PIC. I got it all back and subsequently when I left I gave her, I
think $50 or so.
Mr. JENNER. In that same letter she refers to, she said, "I only made
$92 last month and am just starting to get leads. I am back with the
same company."
To what company is she referring in that letter which is postmarked
June 18, 1951?
Mr. PIC. I don't know, sir. It sounds to me like it would be an
insurance company.
Mr. JENNER. Do you recall your mother selling insurance?
Mr. PIC. Yes; I knew approximately at this time period she sold
insurance.
Mr. JENNER. There is a reference to Lee taking tap dancing lessons,
also, in that letter, that he is a good dancer, "with his voice it
would be a good thing to start dancing lessons and when he is a little
older take voice."
Mr. PIC. I think this statement here about this practically like
several other statements which are either direct or indirect were an
attempt to get me to donate some money to this cause or something
else. Of course this, to me, is a come-on for maybe next time I write
I will say, "Hurrah, hurrah, Lee is going to take tap dancing lessons"
and then she will write and say she can't afford it and to send a
little money to help him. She did these things. In fact, in some of
her letters she refers to it is my fault they are in trouble because I
stated I would help pay for the car and since I was in the service I
wasn't holding up my end of the bargain.
Mr. JENNER. What about that incident?
Mr. PIC. Sir, that is in the second group of letters.
Mr. JENNER. What about this particular incident you mentioned? What are
the facts about that?
Mr. PIC. Just what it states here. This is all I know, sir. What it
states in this letter.
Mr. JENNER. About the dancing and voice?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did you ever hear of Lee, other than this letter of Lee
taking dancing lessons?
Mr. PIC. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did you ever hear otherwise of his taking dancing lessons
than in this letter?
Mr. PIC. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did either you or Robert ever take dancing lessons or voice
lessons?
Mr. PIC. I think when we were very small and Mr. Oswald was still alive
we did, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Now, the other thing to which I referred, as you made
reference to something about making payments on a car. What was that
about?
Mr. PIC. That would be in that second group, sir. In the second group
is really the financial statements. Every one of them contained
something pertaining to her finances.
Mr. JENNER. The early enlistments of yourself and Robert and Lee--do
you think that had anything to do with your mother's persistent
references, allusions to finances?
Mr. PIC. I did not enlist as fast as the other boys. I waited a year
after I was of age. I am sure that prior to my enlistment, as a matter
of fact, I knew she mentioned when I do get in I should make out an
allotment to her and so forth.
Mr. JENNER. Do you think there was an incentive on the part of Lee and
Robert to enlist as soon as possible to get away from your mother?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir; I do.
Mr. JENNER. Did you and your brother Robert have discussions on this
subject?
Mr. PIC. No, sir; we never discussed these things. It was just a
feeling it was always around. We knew these things without discussing
them.
Mr. JENNER. Did you live in an atmosphere in which your mother directly
or indirectly indicated to you that she thought she had been unfairly
dealt with in her life?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. You had that very definite impression?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.