Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. The two surnames were reversed?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir; I think it appears on here. Yes, sir; I think it
appears on here. Yes, sir. John Pic, Jr., in fact his name is----
Mr. JENNER. Edward John Pic, Jr.
Mr. PIC. Right.
Mr. JENNER. And your mother was Marguerite Claverie Oswald?
Mr. PIC. Claverie, Marguerite Frances.
Mr. JENNER. And your mother and father were married what date?
Mr. PIC. Eighth day of August 1929, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And you are now reading from what?
Mr. PIC. The marriage certificate of Edward John Pic, Jr., and Mrs.
Marguerite Frances Claverie.
Mr. JENNER. That is a marriage certificate that you, that is among your
personal papers?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. I am going to put an exhibit number on it. We will take a
photograph of it and return the original to you.
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Reporter, would you mark that as John Pic Exhibit No. 1.
(John Pic Exhibit No. 1 was marked for identification.)
Mr. JENNER. I offer in evidence as John Pic Exhibit No. 1, a marriage
certificate certified and dated August 8, 1929, reflecting the marriage
of Edward John Pic, Jr. and Miss Marguerite Frances Claverie on the 1st
day of August 1929, in Harrison County, Miss. The marriage certificate
does not show the town.
Sergeant, do you have any recollection of your father?
Mr. PIC. My own father?
Mr. JENNER. Yes, sir.
Mr. PIC. No, sir, I don't.
Mr. JENNER. Do you have any recollection of ever having seen your
father?
Mr. PIC. No, sir; I don't.
Mr. JENNER. You were too young at the time but you eventually became
aware of the fact that your mother, Marguerite, and your father,
Edward, were divorced not long after your birth?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did you become aware also of the fact that at the time of
your birth that your father and mother were separated?
Mr. PIC. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. This is the first information, I take it, then, in the
utterance I have just made?
Mr. PIC. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. That you have become aware that your mother and your father
were separated at the time of your birth?
Mr. PIC. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. You did learn about that?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. From your mother?
Mr. PIC. From Life magazine, sir.
Mr. JENNER. I see. Well, that is what I was really getting at.
Mr. PIC. O.K.
Mr. JENNER. It was only in the last 6 or 8 months that you learned that
at the time of your birth your mother and your father were separated?
Mr. PIC. That is correct, sir. I had always been told that they were
divorced because he didn't want children. I didn't know anything else
but that. I didn't know the time periods or anything else, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Your stepfather, when your mother and your stepfather--I
will call him Lee Oswald because all the witnesses have referred to him
as Lee Oswald, is that what he was called, do you have any recollection
of it?
Mr. PIC. I remember him being referred to as Mr. Oswald, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Oswald?
Mr. PIC. That is correct, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did you have a recollection at the time, at least--that
is an inelegant question. Do you recall your mother then marrying Lee
Oswald or Mr. Oswald?
Mr. PIC. I knew they were married, I don't recall the marriage ceremony.
Mr. JENNER. What do you recall about him, sergeant?
Mr. PIC. I recall he was an insurance salesman, sir, for the
Metropolitan Life Insurance Co. He used to take me on his rounds for
collections sometimes. He was very strict with us. We got whippings
when we were bad.
Mr. JENNER. You don't mean to claim that any of them was undeserved?
Mr. PIC. No, sir. Not in the least.
Mr. JENNER. I should say this to you, I think. The witnesses all,
everybody spoke well of your stepfather.
Mr. PIC. That is how I remember him, sir.
Mr. JENNER. You were born in New Orleans?
Mr. PIC. I was?
Mr. JENNER. I am really putting a question mark at the end.
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir; I was born at New Orleans.
Mr. JENNER. And the family lived in New Orleans?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Were you ever informed by anybody as to the business of
your father, not your stepfather but your----
Mr. PIC. My real father?
Mr. JENNER. Yes; or occupation?
Mr. PIC. From what I was told he was a stevedore and had once been a
professional basketball player. This is all I remember ever hearing
about him.
Mr. JENNER. And this was information that came from primarily your
mother?
Mr. PIC. From my mother; yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. As a boy as you grew up in New Orleans were you advised
whether your father was alive, whether he was in New Orleans or where
he was or anything about him in that connection?
Mr. PIC. Being the nosy child I was, every once in a while I would look
him up in the phone book so I knew he existed.
Mr. JENNER. Did you make any inquiries to find out what his business
was or occupation?
Mr. PIC. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did you ever make any attempt to go to where he might be
working or living to see what he looked like?
Mr. PIC. I thought of it several times but I never made an attempt.
Mr. JENNER. Were you influenced in this in any respect by your mother?
Mr. PIC. No, sir. I do remember on several occasions when we would
visit the Lillian Murrets the name would come up that he had visited
them, they would see him now and then and, of course, every time this
cropped up it made me more inquisitive.
Mr. JENNER. You mentioned Lillian Murret, that is your aunt, your
mother's sister?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And her husband is Charles "Dutz" Murret?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. In those early years, did your family reside somewhere near
the Murrets? I am going to get into all those addresses if I can, but I
am thinking of the overall relationship geographically.
Mr. PIC. As I recollect, the house was where Mr. Oswald died, all I
know is that it was on the corner of Alvez and Galvez.
Mr. JENNER. 2109 Alvar?
Mr. PIC. There you go. I think the street that ran next to it was
Galvez.
Mr. JENNER. You are correct.
Mr. PIC. This is the first real--I remember a first real house prior to
this, where it was, sir, I don't know. I was about 5 at the time.
Mr. JENNER. But the first one you remember is the house on the corner
that you have mentioned?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Do any of these addresses refresh your recollection? 2205
Alvar?
Mr. PIC. It may be the address of the house on Alvez and Galvez, I
don't know.
Mr. JENNER. No?
Mr. PIC. I don't know, sir. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. 2123 Alvar?
Mr. PIC. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. 1661 Paul Morphy?
Mr. PIC. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. 2132 Gallier?
Mr. PIC. The name, the streets sound--I may have heard it before.
Mr. JENNER. 1917 Gallier?
Mr. PIC. Only the street sounds familiar.
Mr. JENNER. 805 Greenwood?
Mr. PIC. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. 220 North--my pronunciation will be bad--Telemachus.
Mr. PIC. No.
Mr. JENNER. 123 South Cortez?
Mr. PIC. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. You had to get away yesterday before a letter arrived
which is at your base now, from Mr. Rankin, general counsel for the
Commission, confirming arrangements for you to appear and have your
deposition taken before the Commission, and enclosing with that letter
copies of the legislation being Senate Joint Resolution No. 137
authorizing the creation of the Commission, and a copy of President
Johnson's Executive Orders bringing the Commission into existence No.
11130, and a copy of the rules and regulations of the Commission itself
for the taking of depositions.
When you return to Lackland base you will find that letter probably in
the possession of your Commanding Officer, and he will deliver it to
you.
The Commission was authorized by the resolution I have mentioned and
brought into existence by the President to investigate the facts
and circumstances involved in and surrounding the assassination of
President Kennedy on November 22, 1963, and we have understood from
witnesses and other information we have, that you had and still have
information bearing upon the facts and circumstances relative to that
assassination, and it is this line of questioning that is directed
toward that.
We appreciate your appearing voluntarily from Lackland base to appear
here today.
That letter, and the enclosures state that you are entitled to counsel
if you want counsel present, and if you desire to have counsel present
I can suspend this now.
Mr. PIC. I have nothing to hide, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Go ahead, John.
Mr. ELY. I just wanted to check on a couple of addresses with you, sir.
914 Hennesey, do you remember that?
Mr. PIC. No, sir.
Mr. ELY. What about Taft Place?
Mr. PIC. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. You attended William Frantz Elementary School in Dallas,
did you not?
Mr. PIC. New Orleans.
Mr. JENNER. With your brother, Robert?
Mr. PIC. What grade was I in, sir. He was two grades behind me. If I
was in the third, he was there. If I wasn't, he wasn't.
Mr. JENNER. Well, the record shows you enrolled in William Frantz
School at 3811 North Galvez on the 16th of September 1936 at which time
you were 4-1/2 years old.
Mr. PIC. Well, he wouldn't be there.
Mr. JENNER. Not at that time. He was then 2-1/2.
Do you recall transferring from William Frantz Elementary School to
George Washington Elementary School?
Mr. PIC. Yes, sir; I do.
Mr. JENNER. Was that some time in late September or in November,
perhaps of 1940.
Mr. PIC. Well, prior to that we went to another place, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Your first elementary school was William Frantz?
Mr. PIC. That is correct, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And you attended William Frantz until when, to the best of
your recollection?