The Court met this morning at nine o’clock, and the names of the Jury
having been called over, and Thistlewood and the other prisoners being
put to the bar, the evidence for the prosecution was continued.
ELEANOR WALKER examined by Mr. Gurney.--I am servant to Henry Rogers:
he lives at No. 4, Fox-court, Gray’s-Inn-lane. We had a lodger named
Brunt. He occupied two rooms on the second floor. They were front
rooms. In January a lodger came, introduced by Brunt. This was a month
or five weeks before Brunt was taken up. He (Brunt) said the lodger
lately came from the country, and he wanted a room; and as we had
one to let, he wished him to have it. The room was unfurnished. He
paid three shillings a week for it. He (the lodger) said he might not
bring his goods in for a week or better. He never brought any in to my
knowledge. I do not think I should know him again. I do not remember
having heard him called by his name. The room he took was a two-pair
back room.
This witness was not cross-examined.
Re-called.--While this person occupied the room, I heard persons
frequently go up stairs.
MARY ROGERS, the aunt and mistress of the last witness, examined by
Mr. Gurney.--The room was let by my maid while I was out. After the
lodger had been in the house for a week, I said to Mr. Brunt, “You
have brought a lodger.” He said, “Yes, I have, and I hope he will pay
you. I know nothing of the man, but seeing him at a public-house, and
seeing him want a room.” He said he was a butcher out of work. He paid
me for four or five weeks. I cannot say whether he ever slept there;
he did not to my knowledge. I and my maid in the evening saw three men
coming up stairs. The one in the middle was a black man. The light from
my room was on their faces. At other times I heard persons going up
stairs, but took no particular notice.
This witness was not cross-examined.
JOSEPH HALE, a young lad, the apprentice of Brunt, examined by Mr.
Gurney.--I am apprentice to Brunt. I have served two years and better
of my apprenticeship. I lived with him in Fox-court. I remember a
person coming to lodge there in January. His name was Ings, a butcher.
Brunt and he looked at the room. Brunt said, “It will do; go down and
give them a shilling.” After that Ings used to come to the room. The
key was mostly left in the front room, and Ings used to come there for
it. Persons used sometimes to come to the room before my master was
taken up. This was every evening. I saw different persons. They were
Ings, Tidd, Thistlewood, Bradburn, Edwards, Hall, Potter, and Strange.
I remember a man named Adams: he came. Davidson, the black man, came
also. Others used to come, but I do not recollect them. They used to
stay nearly about two hours. There was no furniture in the room that
ever I saw. They used to take chairs in, out of the front room. I did
not hear any of their conversation. They used to call Thistlewood
sometimes T., his initial, and sometimes Arthur. I once saw the door
of Ings’s room open, and saw some long poles, like branches of trees
cut rough; I suppose about twenty of them. I sometimes heard hammering
and sawing in the room. My master was taken on Thursday, the 24th of
February. On the Sunday before that there was a meeting in the room.
There were more that morning than ever I had seen come up before.
All the persons whom I have named were there that morning. After the
meeting broke up I saw Strange in my master’s room. There was no
meeting on the Monday evening. There was no meeting on Tuesday. On the
Wednesday there were several persons going in and out. Some of them
came into the front room, where I worked. They got some pistols, and
were putting new flints in them. There were five or six pistols. One of
the men said there were people overlooking them from the next house,
and Brunt told them to go to the back room. Strange and a man whom I
did not know were the men who had the pistols. I cannot say how many
I saw go in and out. I saw Thistlewood that day. In the afternoon he
asked me for a sheet of writing-paper. I gave him one. He took it, I
believe, into the back room.
My master after this came out of the back room, and desired me to get
six sheets of cartridge paper. He gave me sixpence. I bought the paper
and gave it to him, and he took it into the back room. This was about
four or five in the afternoon. I heard people going down stairs between
five and six. My master was in and out several times. He went away
finally about six. There was a man went with him. It was not one of
the men I used to see there. A table had been taken that day from my
mistress’s room to the back room. I wanted the table, and went for it.
I knocked at the door, and Potter opened it. There were four or five in
the room besides Potter. After my master was gone, I saw Tidd between
seven and eight. Mrs. Brunt called him, and he came into her room. She
showed him a pike-head and a sword. She asked him what she should do
with them. She then gave them to him, and he took them out of the room
into the back room. After this I heard some persons go down stairs.
Tidd left a message, that if any persons called they should be sent
to the White Hart. Some persons did call on my master, and I went to
show them to the White Hart. Potter came, and he went. He knew the way
himself. There were three came to whom I shewed the way.
My master came home that night at about nine o’clock. I observed his
dress was dirty. He appeared confused. I heard him say to his wife, it
was all up, or words to that effect. He said that where he had been,
a great many officers had come in. He said he had saved his life, and
that was all. Just as he said this, another man came in. I do not know
that man. Brunt shook hands with him, and asked him if he knew who had
informed. The man said, no. The man then said, he had had a dreadful
blow on the side, which knocked him down. Brunt then said, “There is
something to be done yet.” After this Brunt and the other man went
away together. Mrs. Brunt and I after this went to Ings’s room. I saw
several rolls of brown paper with tar in them. I saw only one pole
remaining. I saw something rolled up, and tied round with strings. I
understood them to be hand-grenades. I saw an iron pot belonging to
Brunt. My master came in about eleven o’clock. He told me to get up
in the morning as soon as I could and clean his boots. They were very
dirty. He called me in the morning at half past six, and when I got up
he asked me if I knew the Borough. I told him yes. He then asked if
I knew Snow’s-fields. I said no. He then went into the back room and
put the things out of the cupboard into two baskets; one of which was
afterwards put into a blue apron belonging to Mrs. Brunt. This apron
had before this been as a curtain in Ings’s room.
My master told me that Potter lived in Snow’s fields. When we had the
baskets ready, two officers came in and took my master into custody.
I knew where Tidd lived. He lived in the Hole-in-the-Wall-passage,
Brooks’-market. Adams lived next door.
Cross-examined by Mr. Adolphus.--My master is a journeyman shoemaker:
not a very poor man. Adams is also a shoemaker. Ings had the lodgings
five weeks. I believe they had meetings there every night. I thought
there were about twenty persons there on the Sunday. I know some of the
prisoners. Strange is a boot-seller--selling boots in a shop. Edwards
was an artist. Edwards was there very often: oftener than Adams--almost
every day. Hall was a journeyman tailor, I believe. I don’t know where
he lives. I cannot say how many persons were there at one time on
Wednesday. The baskets used by my master were rush baskets. As near as
I can guess there were about twenty poles. They were branches of trees
in a green raw state. I believe they kept a fire in Ings’s room. I do
not know whether the poles were cut up to light the fire or not.
THOMAS SMART examined by Mr. Littledale.--I am a watchman of the parish
of St. George, Hanover-square. I was on watch on the south side of
Grosvenor-square, on Tuesday the 22d of February. I went there about
eight o’clock. About half-past eight I saw four suspicious men walking
the square. I thought they were after no good; one of them was a dark
man, and the other a tall man. I watched them. They were looking down
the areas. Charles Bissix’s box is at the west side of the square.
Cross-examined by Mr. Curwood.--It was not a very uncommon thing to see
suspicious men walking about.
HENRY GILLAN examined by Mr. Bolland.--I am a servant to Mr. Whittle,
apothecary, at 15, Mount-street, Grosvenor-square. I sometimes use
the Rising-sun public-house. It is in Charles-street, which runs into
Grosvenor-square and Mount-street. I was there on Tuesday the 22d of
February. I saw that short man (pointing to the prisoner Brunt) there.
There was a tall man with him. They had some bread and cheese and
porter. There were dominos on the table, and the short man challenged
me to play with him. I played two games with him, and left the house
before ten, leaving them there.
JOHN HECTOR MORRIS examined by the Attorney-General.--I am a journeyman
cutler to Mr. Underwood, in Drury-lane. I remember on Christmas-eve
a man brought a sword to my master’s shop. The man was habited like
a butcher. He drew the sword from under his smock-frock, without a
scabbard. He wished to have it ground sharp, particularly at the point.
He said to put the name of Inns on it; but I am hard of hearing, and it
might be Ings. He called for it in a few days. In about a fortnight he
brought another sword to have it sharpened in the same way. It was much
longer than the other. [Here the witness identified the prisoner Ings
as the man who brought the swords.] I should know the swords again.
EDWARD SIMPSON examined by the Attorney-General.--I am a corporal major
of the 2nd Regiment of Life-Guards. I know a person named Harrison. He
was in the Guards. (Here he identified Harrison.) He was discharged in
1814. When I knew him, he was in King-street barracks, Portman-square.
He had an opportunity of knowing them. Part of the barracks looked into
Gloucester Mews. There was a loft with five windows looking into it.
There was hay and straw in that loft; the windows had been stopped up
since the Cato-street business.
Cross-examined by Mr. Curwood.--I don’t know how many men are in
Knightsbridge barracks; they would hold about 300.
JAMES ADAMS examined by the Attorney-General.--I am a pawnbroker in
Berwick-street. I know the prisoner Davidson from his having pledged
things at my shop. He came on the 23d of February, in the morning, and
took a brass-barrelled blunderbuss out of pledge.
This witness was not cross-examined.
THOMAS HYDEN examined by Mr. Gurney.--I am a cow-keeper. I was formerly
a member of a shoemakers’ club. I knew Wilson there. I saw him a
few days before the 23d of February; he met me in the street, and
made a proposition to me. He asked me if I would be one of a party
to destroy his Majesty’s Ministers; he said they were waiting for a
cabinet dinner, and that all things were ready. He told me they had
a sort of things which I never saw; they were called by the name of
hand-grenades,--and, he said, he depended on me to be one. He said
that Mr. Thistlewood would be glad to see me, if I would be one. He
said, the use to be made of the hand-grenades was to be put under the
table, at the cabinet dinner, with the fuse alight, and those who
escaped were to be destroyed by the sword or some other weapon. He
also said that fires were to be lighted, and the town to be kept in
confusion for several days, till the thing became general. He named
some houses. Lord Harrowby’s, Lord Castlereagh’s, Lord Wellington’s,
Lord Sidmouth’s, the Bishop of London’s, and several others which I
do not remember. I told him I would make one. This was, I believe,
four or five days before the Cato-street business. Before that I
went to Lord Harrowby’s. I do not remember the day. I followed his
Lordship in the park. I gave him a note. On Wednesday, the 23d, I saw
Wilson again. I believe it was between four and five o’clock in the
afternoon. I met him in Manchester-street, Manchester-square. He said,
“Hyden, you are the very man I wanted to see.” I asked him what there
was going to be; and he said, there was to be a cabinet dinner at Lord
Harrowby’s, Grosvenor-square. He told me I was to go to the Horse and
Groom public-house, the corner of Cato-street. I was to go in there,
or otherwise I was to wait at the corner until I was _shoved_ into a
stable close by. I asked him the hour, and he said about half past
five or a quarter before six. I then asked him how many there were
to be, and he said twenty or thirty. I asked him, was that all there
was going to be? and he said, there was to be another party in the
Borough, another in Gray’s Inn-lane, and another in Gee’s-court, or
in the city. He said, all Gee’s-court were in it; but they would not
act till after the English began, as they had so often deceived them
before. Gee’s-court is inhabited by Irish. It is at the St. Giles’s
end of Oxford-street. He also said there was a gentleman’s servant
supporting them with money; and, if they would act on the subject, he
would give them a great deal more. He asked me if I had a gun; and I
said yes, but it was only a _rubbishing_ one. He then said they would
provide me with a gun, and something to work with. There were, he also
said, two pieces of cannon in Gray’s Inn-lane, which they could get by
breaking in a small door. He said there were four pieces of cannon in
the Artillery Ground, and they could be very easily taken, by killing
the sentinel. After they left Grosvenor-square, they were to meet near
the Mansion-house. I was told to come to my time, or the thing would be
done before I came.
I went to John-street that evening; it was nearly seven o’clock. The
entrance to Cato-street is a little gateway from John-street. When I
got there I saw Wilson and Davidson; I had seen him (Davidson) before.
Davidson said I was come, and he asked me if I would go in. I said no,
as I was going somewhere else to look for some cream. He said if I
would go in, Mr. Thistlewood was there. I asked him what time I should
be there, and he said eight o’clock. If I were not there in time, he
said, I was to follow them down to Grosvenor-square, and, at the fourth
house from the corner, at the bottom of the square, I should find them.
Cross-examined by Mr. Adolphus.--I am not certain whether the
first conversation I had with Wilson was before the Sunday, before
the Cato-street business. I am not quite certain. It was four
or five days before. I am not able to say what day I gave the
information to Lord Harrowby. It might be a day or two before I saw
Wilson in Manchester-street. The conversation with Wilson was in
Manchester-street; we were walking up and down the street.
A note was here put into witness’s hand, which he said was the one
given by him to Lord Harrowby. It was in his own hand-writing.
Cross-examined.--The reason why I gave the note to Lord Harrowby was,
because I could not see Lord Castlereagh.--I did not call at Lord
Castlereagh’s house, but I went three or four times near the house,
in order to see him. I did not see him, and then I gave the note to
Lord Harrowby. I am certain that in Wilson’s conversation with me, the
words, “His Majesty’s Ministers,” were used.
The EARL of HARROWBY examined from the bench by the
Attorney-General.--I reside in Grosvenor-square, on the south side,
near Charles-street, next door to the Archbishop of York’s. I am a
Privy-Councillor, and one of his Majesty s Ministers. I am President
of the Council, and one of the Cabinet. On the 23d of February last,
I intended giving a cabinet dinner; I think it was on Wednesday, the
23d. Only those who compose the Cabinet are invited to Cabinet dinners.
I believe the invitations went out the latter part of the week before,
but my head servant can speak to that more correctly. Invitations were
sent to the Lord Chancellor; to the Earl of Liverpool, the First Lord
of the Treasury; to Mr. Vansittart, the chancellor of the Exchequer;
to Earl Bathurst, the Secretary of State for the Colonial department;
to Lord Sidmouth, the Secretary of State for the Home Department; to
Lord Castlereagh, the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs; the Duke
of Wellington, Master General of the Ordnance; Mr. Canning, the First
Commissioner of the India Board; Mr. Robinson, President of the Board
of Trade; Mr. B. Bathurst, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster; Mr.
Wellesley Pole, the Master of the Mint; and the Earl of Mulgrave; all
these are Privy-Councillors. They are employed in the different offices
I have mentioned, and also form what is called the Cabinet. In common
parlance they are called his Majesty’s Ministers. On the Tuesday before
the intended dinner, I was riding in the Park without a servant. It
was about two o’clock. I went to a Council at Carlton-House. I am not
positive as to the hour. As I came near Grosvenor-gate a person met me,
and asked me if I was Lord Harrowby. I said, yes. He said he wished to
give a note to Lord Castlereagh, which was of considerable importance
to him and to myself. He then gave me a letter. After some further
conversation, he gave me a card, with his address. I saw the man again
by appointment on Wednesday morning in the ring, among the young
plantations in Hyde-Park. The dinner did not take place at my house
on Wednesday. The preparations went on as if the parties were to dine
together, until I wrote a note from the Earl of Liverpool’s to my head
servant, to say the Cabinet would not dine there. It would be seven, or
half past, at which the party would dine.
[Illustration:
_Wivell Del^t._ _Cooper Sculp._