Mr. MOULDER. You are directed to answer the question.
Mr. WESTMAN. I will answer the question under protest.
My name is Hans Lenus Adolph Westman.
Mr. TAVENNER. Will you spell your last name?
Mr. WESTMAN. W-e-s-t-m-a-n.
Mr. TAVENNER. It is noted that you are accompanied by counsel.
Will counsel please identify himself for the record?
Mr. HATTEN. C. T. Hatten, previously identified as an attorney in
Seattle.
Mr. TAVENNER. Where do you live, Mr. Westman?
Mr. WESTMAN. In Seattle.
Mr. TAVENNER. What is your occupation?
Mr. WESTMAN. I would like to confer with counsel.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. WESTMAN. Well, I will answer under compulsion, and I am a
sheetmetal worker.
Mr. TAVENNER. Do you have any other occupation?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. WESTMAN. Do you mean at the present time?
Mr. TAVENNER. During the last month, say, during the month of March.
Mr. WESTMAN. I would like to confer with my counsel.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. WESTMAN. Well, sir, I would like--I will decline to answer that
question under the fifth amendment, as I do not know what is referred
to as work by the question, and, hence, it might be something that
is construed by you, sir, as constituting work that might be of a
character that would waive my rights under the fifth amendment. And,
hence, I will take the fifth amendment.
Mr. TAVENNER. I will be more specific.
Have you been engaged during the month of March in any publication work
of any kind? That will limit it within narrow bounds.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. WESTMAN. I will decline to answer that under the fifth amendment.
And I would like to go into the reasons why I take the fifth amendment,
because under----
Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Chairman, the witness has stated his reason as being
the fifth amendment, which is a ground, under the circumstances here, I
think he is entitled to use. And, therefore, it would not require any
speech to accompany it.
Mr. MOULDER. Please make a direct answer to the question. We will get
along more quickly.
Mr. WESTMAN. I said that under the fifth amendment I decline to answer
that question, and I would like to just point out, Mr. Chairman, that
I do take the fifth amendment because of the fact that it is in the
Constitution to protect the innocent, and for the same reason that you
gentlemen of Congress have congressional immunity.
Mr. MOULDER. You have made yourself clear about the fifth amendment.
Mr. TAVENNER. Have you at any time, during the month of March 1955,
been the press director of the Communist Party?
Mr. WESTMAN. I will decline to answer that under the first and fifth
amendments, as, under the first amendment, that is directly inquiring
into the freedom of the press and into matters of like nature, and,
under the fifth amendment, I decline because such testimony might be
construed as testimony against myself.
Mr. TAVENNER. Mrs. Barbara Hartle testified before this committee, in
June of 1954. In the course of her testimony in identifying various
individuals as members of the Communist Party, she stated:
Lenus Westman was a member of a club in the central region and
lived in that area. Most of his Communist Party activities were in
mass work at that time, like the Progressive Party or election work.
Tell the committee, please, what knowledge you have of the activities
of the Communist Party, if any, within the Progressive Party.
Mr. WESTMAN. Well, Mr. Chairman, I will decline to answer that question
under the fifth amendment.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. WESTMAN. I think I have made my point clear on that.
Mr. MOULDER. May I ask you a question?
Where were you born and reared?
Mr. WESTMAN. I was born in Sweden, Umea, Sweden; and came to this
country at the age of 7.
Mr. MOULDER. How old are you now?
Mr. WESTMAN. I am 52 years of age.
Mr. MOULDER. Are you a citizen of the United States?
Mr. WESTMAN. Yes, I am.
Mr. MOULDER. How long have you been a citizen?
Mr. WESTMAN. Since 1936.
Mr. MOULDER. Have you served in the armed services of the United States?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. WESTMAN. Yes; I have.
Mr. MOULDER. What branch of the armed services?
Mr. WESTMAN. In the infantry, Army.
Mr. MOULDER. For what period of time?
Mr. WESTMAN. From July 1942, until February 1943.
Mr. MOULDER. Did you receive an honorable discharge from the service?
Mr. WESTMAN. Yes; I did.
Mr. VELDE. I would like to ask one question.
How did you obtain citizenship in this country?
Mr. WESTMAN. Through naturalization.
Mr. VELDE. Did you file your petition for naturalization on your own?
Mr. WESTMAN. It was by petition.
Mr. TAVENNER. What was the date of your naturalization?
Mr. WESTMAN. It was July 1936.
Mr. TAVENNER. Was it July 27, 1936?
Mr. WESTMAN. Yes; I think that was the exact date.
Mr. TAVENNER. Where were you naturalized?
Mr. WESTMAN. Here in Seattle in the Federal court.
Mr. TAVENNER. Were you a member of the Communist Party at the time you
were naturalized?
Mr. WESTMAN. I decline to answer that question under the fifth
amendment.
Mr. TAVENNER. Are you a member of the Communist Party now?
Mr. WESTMAN. I decline to answer that question for the same reasons
that I have given.
Mr. TAVENNER. Have you been a member of the Communist Party at any time
between 1936 and the present date?
Mr. WESTMAN. I decline to answer that question for the same reason that
I have given.
Mr. VELDE. Were you a member of the Communist Party at the time you
were naturalized?
Mr. WESTMAN. I decline to answer that question also, and for the same
reason.
Mr. VELDE. Mr. Chairman, it appears to me there is some evidence
that should be referred to the United States Immigration and
Naturalization Service for future consideration, possibly with a view
to denaturalization and deportation.
Mr. TAVENNER. Were you elected to the Senate of the State of Washington
in the election of 1940?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. WESTMAN. Yes; I was.
Mr. TAVENNER. Did you serve? That is, were you seated?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. WESTMAN. I decline to answer that question, sir, under the fifth
amendment.
Mr. TAVENNER. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. VELDE. I want to go a little further. When did you file your
petition for naturalization?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. WESTMAN. Well, at the moment I don’t recall exactly when I filed
the petition, but it is a matter of public record.
Mr. VELDE. Would it have been approximately 5 years before the date of
your naturalization in 1936?
Mr. WESTMAN. Yes.
Mr. VELDE. Probably in 1931?
Mr. WESTMAN. It would be approximately in that period.
Mr. VELDE. How old were you at that time?
Mr. WESTMAN. I was 29, I believe, at that time.
Mr. VELDE. Then during the 5 years following your filing of a petition
for naturalization did you engage in any type of Communist activity?
Mr. WESTMAN. I decline to answer that question for the reasons that I
have given before.
Mr. VELDE. Did you know what the Communist Party was at that time?
Mr. WESTMAN. I decline to answer that question for the same reasons
that I have given.
Mr. VELDE. Where, and in what court did you receive your citizenship?
Mr. WESTMAN. It was at the Federal courthouse here, but I am not sure
at the present time which court it was.
Mr. VELDE. At the time that you received your citizenship in the court,
United States district court, were you engaged in any Communist Party
activities?
Mr. WESTMAN. I decline to answer that question for the same reasons
that I have given before.
Mr. MOULDER. Have you, to your own best knowledge and information,
ever committed any act, a subversive act or one of un-American conduct
against the United States of America?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. WESTMAN. Well, sir, under the fifth amendment, I must decline to
answer that question, and I also know that this committee knows that I
have not been engaged in such activities. I am sure that this committee
knows that.
Mr. VELDE. As a member of the committee, I certainly do not know that
you have not been engaged in subversive activities.
Mr. MOULDER. It seems to me you now have an opportunity to tell the
committee that you have not been engaged in subversive activities.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. WESTMAN. I still decline to answer the question under the fifth
amendment because I do not consider this an opportunity.
Mr. MOULDER. You say you served in the Armed Forces for a period of how
long?
Mr. WESTMAN. Approximately 6 or 7 months.
Mr. MOULDER. And why were you discharged?
Mr. WESTMAN. That was because I was over 40.
Mr. MOULDER. What was the extent of your services in the Armed Forces?
Were you in combat service?
Mr. WESTMAN. No.
Mr. MOULDER. Are there any further questions?
Mr. TAVENNER. No, sir.
Mr. MOULDER. Mr. Velde?
Mr. VELDE. No questions.
Mr. MOULDER. The witness is excused.
(Whereupon the witness was excused.)
Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Frank Kerr.
Will you come forward? Just have a seat, please.
(Mr. Frank Kerr came forward, accompanied by his counsel, Jay G. Sykes.)
Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Chairman, this witness has been subpenaed, and a
doctor’s certificate has been given which is wholly inadequate as a
medical certificate to show that this gentleman was not in condition to
appear here.
Counsel was advised to get a doctor and give us a certificate that we
thought would mean something.
There may have been some confusion about who was to have the
examination made, but, regardless of that, it is quite apparent, from
observation, that the man is not well, and I don’t feel satisfied in
interrogating him under these circumstances unless the witness himself
wants to be interrogated.
(Mr. Sykes conferred with Mr. Kerr.)
Mr. SYKES. He would rather not.
Mr. TAVENNER. Under those circumstances I do not feel like insisting on
it.
Mr. MOULDER. Do you wish the subpena to be continued or remain in full
force and effect?
Mr. TAVENNER. No, sir. Under the circumstances, I think Mr. Kerr should
be dismissed.
Mr. MOULDER. The witness is excused.
(Whereupon the witness was excused.)
Mr. TAVENNER. There are no further witnesses, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. MOULDER. The hearing will remain in order.
As chairman of this subcommittee, and on behalf of the staff of the
committee, our able counsel, Mr. Tavenner, and our investigator,
Mr. Wheeler, and myself, we are all deeply grateful to the police
department and the highly qualified police officers who have served
this committee so faithfully and efficiently.
We are also deeply grateful and want to express our appreciation to
all city, county, and Federal officials who have cooperated with us in
every possible way.
As a member of the Committee on Un-American Activities, I want to say
that I have attended many hearings in many sections of the United
States, and I have never had the pleasure of enjoying more genuine,
warm hospitality than has been extended to us during the hearings which
have been held here in Seattle, Wash.
I am deeply grateful for the opportunity and the honor of having been
associated with so many fine people as I have found here in Seattle.
They have cooperated with us during the hearings.
We also wish to express our deep appreciation for the efficient service
rendered by the sheriff’s office, as well as all other public officials
who have cooperated with us during the hearings.
Mr. Velde?
Mr. VELDE. I simply want to say this, Mr. Chairman: I appreciate the
courteous and fair manner in which you have conducted the hearings here
in Seattle.
I have a soft spot in my heart for the people in Seattle, and I concur
with you that we have been given more courteous treatment, or at least
as courteous treatment here in the city of Seattle and in the Northwest
area as we have been given in any other section of the country. We
really do appreciate it.
Mr. MOULDER. Thank you very much, Mr. Velde.
The committee will be adjourned.
(Whereupon, Saturday, March 19, 1955, at 5:35 p. m., the committee was
recessed subject to the call of the Chair.)