The seventieth day of the session being appointed for the report from
the committee on the bill for the increase and encouragement of sailors,
sir John BARNARD presented a petition from the merchants of London, and
spoke as follows:--
Sir, this petition I am directed to lay before this house by many of the
principal merchants of that great city which I have the honour to
represent; men too wise to be terrified with imaginary dangers, and too
honest to endeavour the obstruction of any measures that may probably
advance the publick good, merely because they do not concur with their
private interest; men, whose knowledge and capacity enable them to judge
rightly, and whose acknowledged integrity and spirit set them above the
suspicion of concealing their sentiments.
I therefore present this petition in the name of the merchants of
London, in full confidence that it will be found to deserve the regard
of this assembly, though I am, equally with the other members, a
stranger to what it contains; for it is my opinion that a representative
is to lay before the house the sentiments of his constituents, whether
they agree with his own or not, and that, therefore, it would have been
superfluous to examine the petition, which, though I might not wholly
have approved it, I had no right to alter.
The petition was read, and is as follows:
"The humble petition of the merchants and traders of the city of
London--showeth, that your petitioners are informed a bill is depending
in this honourable house, for the encouragement and increase of seamen,
and for the better and speedier manning his majesty's fleet, in which
are clauses, that, should the bill pass into a law, your petitioners
apprehend will be highly detrimental to the trade and navigation of this
kingdom, by discouraging persons from entering into or being bred to the
sea service, and entirely prevent the better and speedier manning his
majesty's fleet, by giving the seamen of Great Britain, and of all other
his majesty's dominions, a distaste of serving on board the royal navy.
"That your petitioners conceive nothing can be of so bad consequence to
the welfare and defence of this nation, as the treating so useful and
valuable a body of men, who are its natural strength and security, like
criminals of the highest nature, and so differently from all other his
majesty's subjects; and at the same time are persuaded, that the only
effectual and speedy method of procuring, for the service of his
majesty's fleet, a proportionable number of the sailors in this kingdom,
is to distinguish that body of men by bounties and encouragements, both
present and future, and by abolishing all methods of severity and ill
usage, particularly that practice whereby they are deprived, after long
and hazardous voyages, of enjoying, for a short space of time, the
comforts of their families, and equal liberty with other their
fellow-subjects in their native country.
"That your petitioners believe it will not be difficult to have such
methods pointed out as will tend to supply the present necessities, and
at the same time effectually promote the increase of seamen, when this
honourable house shall think fit to inquire into a matter of such high
importance to the naval power, trade, and riches of this kingdom.
"That your petitioners are convinced this bill will not only be
ineffectual to answer the ends proposed by it, but will be destructive
of the liberties of all his majesty's subjects, as it empowers any
parish officer, accompanied with an unlimited number of persons, at any
hour, by day or by night, to force open the dwelling-houses, warehouses,
or other places, provided for the security and defence of their lives
and fortunes, contrary to the undoubted liberties of the people of Great
Britain, and the laws of this land.
"In consideration, therefore, of the premises, and of the particular
prejudices, hardships, and dangers, which must inevitably attend your
petitioners, and all others the merchants and traders of this kingdom,
should this bill pass into a law, your petitioners most humbly pray this
honourable house, that they may be heard by their counsel against the
said clauses in the said bill."
Mr. BATHURST then presented a petition, and spoke as follows:--Sir, the
alarm which the bill, now depending, has raised, is not confined to the
city of London, or to any particular province of the king's dominions;
the whole nation is thrown into commotions, and the effects of the law
now proposed, are dreaded, far and wide, as a general calamity. Every
town which owes its trade and its provisions to navigation, apprehends
the approach of poverty and scarcity, and those which are less
immediately affected, consider the infraction of our liberties as a
prelude to their destruction. Happy would it be, if we, who are
intrusted with their interest, could find any arguments to convince them
that their terrour was merely panick.
That these fears have already extended their influence to the county
which I represent, the petition which I now beg leave to lay before the
house, will sufficiently evince; and I hope their remonstrances will
prevail with this assembly to remove the cause of their disquiet, by
rejecting the bill.
This was entitled "a petition of several gentlemen, freeholders, and
other inhabitants of the county of Gloucester, in behalf of themselves,
and all other, the freeholders of the said county," setting forth, in
substance, "That the petitioners being informed that a bill was
depending in this house, for the encouragement and increase of seamen,
and for the better and speedier manning his majesty's fleet, containing
several clauses which, should the bill pass into a law, would, as the
petitioners apprehend, impose hardships upon the people too heavy to be
borne, and create discontents in the minds of his majesty's subjects;
would subvert all the rights and privileges of a Briton; and overturn
Magna Charta itself, the basis on which they are built; and, by these
means, destroy that very liberty, for the preservation of which the
present royal family was established upon the throne of Britain; for
which reasons, such a law could never be obeyed, or much blood would be
shed in consequence of it."
Mr. Henry PELHAM then spoke, to this purport:--Sir, I have attended to
this petition with the utmost impartiality, and have endeavoured to
affix, to every period, the most innocent sense; but cannot forbear to
declare it as my opinion, that it is far distant from the style of
submission and request: instead of persuading, they attempt to
intimidate us, and menace us with no less than bloodshed and rebellion.
They make themselves the judges of our proceedings, and appeal, from our
determinations, to their own opinion, and declare that they will obey no
longer than they approve.
If such petitions as these, sir, are admitted; if the legislature shall
submit to receive laws, and subjects resume, at pleasure, the power with
which the government is vested, what is this assembly but a convention
of empty phantoms, whose determinations are nothing more than a mockery
of state?
Every insult upon this house is a violation of our constitution; and the
constitution, like every other fabrick, by being often battered, must
fall at last. It is, indeed, already destroyed, if there be, in the
nation, any body of men who shall, with impunity, refuse to comply with
the laws, plead the great charter of liberty against those powers that
made it, and fix the limits of their own obedience.
I cannot, sir, pass over, in silence, the mention of the king, whose
title to the throne, and the reasons for which he was exalted to it, are
set forth with uncommon art and spirit of diction; but spirit, which, in
my opinion, appears not raised by zeal, but by sedition; and which,
therefore, it is our province to repress.
That his majesty reigns for the preservation of liberty, will be readily
confessed; but how shall we be able to preserve it, if his laws are not
obeyed?
Let us, therefore, in regard to the dignity of the assembly, to the
efficacy of our determinations, and the security of our constitution,
discourage all those who shall address us for the future, on this or any
other occasion, from speaking in the style of governours and dictators,
by refusing that this petition should be laid on the table.
[The question was put, and it was agreed, by the whole house, that it
should not lie on the table.]
Mr. Henry PELHAM rose up again, and spoke thus:--Sir, I cannot but
congratulate the house upon the unanimity with which this petition, a
petition of which I speak in the softest language, when I call it
irreverent and disrespectful, has been refused the regard commonly paid
to the remonstrances of our constituents, whose rights I am far from
desiring to infringe, when I endeavour to regulate their conduct, and
recall them to their duty.
This is an occasion, on which it is, in my opinion, necessary to exert
our authority with confidence and vigour, as the spirit of opposition
must always be proportioned to that of the attack. Let us, therefore,
not only refuse to this petition the usual place on our table, but
reject it as unworthy of this house.
[The question was put, and the petition rejected, with scarcely any
opposition.]
The house then entered upon the consideration of the bill, and when the
report was made from the committee, and the blanks filled up, sir
William YONGE spoke, in the following manner:--
Sir, the bill has been brought, by steady perseverance and diligent
attention, to such perfection, that much more important effects may be
expected from it than from any former law for the same purpose, if it be
executed with the same calmness and resolution, the same contempt of
popular clamour, and the same invariable and intrepid adherence to the
publick good, that has been shown in forming and defending it.
But what can we hope from this, or any other law, if particular men, who
cannot be convinced of its expedience, shall not only refuse to obey it,
but declare their design of obstructing the execution of it? shall
determine to retire from the sphere of their authority, rather than
exercise it in compliance with the decree of the senate, and threaten,
in plain terms, to call the country in to their assistance, and to pour
the rabble by thousands upon those who shall dare to do their duty, and
obey their governours?
Such declarations as these, sir, are little less than sallies of
rebellion; and, if they pass without censure, will, perhaps, produce
such commotions as may require to be suppressed by other means than
forms of law and senatorial censures.
Nor do I think that, by rejecting the petition, we have sufficiently
established our authority; for, in my opinion, we yielded too much in
receiving it. The bill before us whatever may be its title, is, in
reality, a money bill; a bill, by which aids are granted to the crown;
and we have, therefore, no necessity of rejecting petitions on this
occasion, because the standing orders of the house forbid us to admit
them.
They then proceeded to the amendments, and when the clause for limiting
the wages of seamen was read, sir John BARNARD rose up, and spoke to
this effect:--
Sir, we are now to consider the clause to which the petition relates,
which I have now presented, a petition on a subject of so general
importance, and offered by men so well acquainted with every argument
that can be offered, and every objection which can be raised, that their
request of being heard by their council cannot be denied, without
exposing us to the censure of adhering obstinately to our own opinions,
of shutting our ears against information, of preferring expedition to
security, and disregarding the welfare of our country.
It will not be necessary to defer our determinations on this clause for
more than three days, though we should gratify this just and common
request. And will not this loss be amply compensated by the satisfaction
of the people, for whose safety we are debating, and by the
consciousness that we have neglected nothing which might contribute to
the efficacy of our measures?
The merchants, sir, do not come before us with loud remonstrances and
harassing complaints, they do not apply to our passions, but our
understandings, and offer such informations as will very much facilitate
the publick service. It has been frequent, in the course of this debate,
to hear loud demands for better expedients, and more efficacious, than
those which have been proposed; and is it to be conceived that those who
called thus eagerly for new proposals, intended not to inform
themselves, but to silence their opponents?
From whom, sir, are the best methods for the prosecution of naval
affairs to be expected, but from those whose lives are spent in the
study of commerce, whose fortunes depend upon the knowledge of the sea,
and who will, most probably, exert their abilities in contriving
expedients to promote the success of the war, than they whom the
miscarriage of our fleets must irreparably ruin?
The merchants, sir, are enabled by their profession to inform us--are
deterred by their interest from deceiving us; they have, like all other
subjects, a right to be heard on any question; and a better right than
any other when their interest is more immediately affected; and,
therefore, to refuse to hear them, will be, at once, impolitick and
cruel; it will discover, at the same time, a contempt of the most
valuable part of our fellow-subjects, and an inflexible adherence to our
own opinions.
The expedient of asserting this to be a money bill, by which the just
remonstrances of the merchants are intended to be eluded, is too trivial
and gross to be adopted by this assembly: if this bill can be termed a
money bill, and no petitions are, therefore, to be admitted against it,
I know not any bill relating to the general affairs of the nation which
may not plead the same title to an exemption from petitions.
I therefore desire that the consideration of this clause may be deferred
for two days, that the arguments of the merchants may be examined, and
that this affair may not be determined without the clearest knowledge
and exactest information.
Sir Robert WALPOLE spoke next, to this effect:--Sir, the petition,
whether justifiable or not, with regard to the occasion on which it is
presented, or the language in which it is expressed, is certainly
offered at an improper time, and, therefore, can lay no claim to the
regard of this assembly.
The time prescribed, by the rules of this house, for the reception of
petitions, is that at which the bill is first introduced, not at which
it is to be finally determined.
The petition before us is said not to regard the bill in general, but a
particular clause; and it is, therefore, asserted, that it may now
properly be heard: but this plea will immediately vanish, when it shall
be made appear that the clause is not mentioned in it, and that there is
no particular relation between that and the petition, which I shall
attempt--
Here sir John BARNARD, remarking that sir Robert WALPOLE had the
petition in his hand, rose, and said:--Sir, I rise thus abruptly to
preserve the order of this assembly, and to prevent any gentleman from
having, in this debate, any other advantage, above the rest, than that
of superiour abilities, or more extensive knowledge.
The petition was not ordered, by the house, to be placed in the right
honourable gentleman's hand, but on the table; nor has he a right to
make use of any other means for his information, than are in the power
of any other member: if he is in doubt upon any particulars contained in
it, he may move that the clerk should read it to the house.
Sir Robert WALPOLE laid down the paper; Mr. PELHAM rose, and said:--Sir,
I am so far from thinking the rules of the house asserted, that, in my
opinion, the right of the members is infringed by this peremptory
demand. Is it not, in the highest degree, requisite, that he who is
about to reason upon the petition should acquaint himself with the
subject on which he is to speak.
What inconveniencies can ensue from such liberties as this, I am not
able to discover; and, as all the orders of the house are, doubtless,
made for more easy and expeditious despatch, if an order be contrary to
this end, it ought to be abrogated for the reasons for which others are
observed.
The confidence with which this petition was presented, will not suffer
us to imagine that the person who offered it fears that it can suffer by
a close examination; and I suppose, though he has spoken so warmly in
favour of it, without perusing, he does not expect that others should
with equal confidence admit--
Sir John BARNARD observing that sir Robert WALPOLE leaned forward
towards the table, to read the petition as it lay, rose, and said:--Sir,
I rise once more to demand the observation of the orders of the house,
and to hinder the right honourable gentleman from doing by stratagem,
what he did more openly and honestly before.
It was to little purpose that he laid down the petition, if he placed it
within reach of his inspection? for I was only desirous, sir, to hinder
him from reading, and was far from suspecting that he would take it
away. I insist, that henceforward, he obey the rules of this assembly,
with his eyes as well as with his hands, and take no advantage of his
seat, which may enable him to perplex the question in debate.
Then the PRESIDENT spoke thus:--Sir, it is, undoubtedly, required by the
orders of the house, that the petitions should lie upon the table; and
that any member, who is desirous of any farther satisfaction, should
move that they be read by the clerk, that every member may have the same
opportunity of understanding and considering them; and that no one may
be excluded from information, by the curiosity or delays of another. But
the importance of this affair seems not to be so very great as to
require a rigorous observance of the rules; and it were to be wished,
for the ease and expedition of our deliberations, that gentlemen would
rather yield points of indifference to one another, than insist so
warmly on circumstances of a trivial nature.
Sir Robert WALPOLE then desired that the clerk might read the petition,
which being immediately done, he proceeded in the following manner:--
Sir, having sat above forty years in this assembly, and never been
called to order before, I was somewhat disconcerted by a censure so new
and unexpected, and, in my opinion, undeserved. So that I am somewhat at
a loss, with regard to the train of arguments which I had formed, and
which I will now endeavour to recover. Yet I cannot but remark, that
those gentlemen who are so solicitous for order in others, ought,
themselves, invariably to observe it; and that if I have once given an
unhappy precedent of violating the rules of this house, I have, in some
measure, atoned for my inadvertence, by a patient attention to reproof,
and a ready submission to authority.
I hope, sir, I may claim some indulgence from the motive of my offence,
which was only a desire of accuracy, and an apprehension that I might,
by mistaking or forgetting some passages in the petition, lose my own
time, and interrupt the proceedings of the house to no purpose.
But having now, according to order, heard the petition, and found no
reason to alter my opinion, I shall endeavour to convince the house that
it ought not to be granted.
The petition, sir, is so far from bearing any particular relation to the
clause now before us, that it does not, in any part, mention the
expedient proposed in it, but contains a general declaration of
discontent, suspicion, apprehensions of dangerous proceedings, and
dislike of our proceedings; insinuations, sir, by no means consistent
with the reverence due to this assembly, and which the nature of civil
government requires always to be paid to the legislative power.
To suspect any man, sir, in common life, is in some degree to detract
from his reputation, which must suffer in proportion to the supposed
wisdom and integrity of him who declares his suspicion. To suspect the
conduct of this senate, is to invalidate their decisions, and subject
them to contempt and opposition.
Such, and such only, appears to be the tendency of the petition which
has now been read; a petition, sir, very unskilfully drawn, if it was
intended against the clause under our consideration, for it has not a
single period or expression that does not equally regard all the other
clauses.
If any particular objection is made, or any single grievance more
distinctly pointed at, it is the practice of impresses, a hardship, I
own, peculiar to the sailors; but it must be observed that it is a
practice established by immemorial custom, and a train of precedents not
to be numbered; and it is well known that the whole common law of this
nation is nothing more than custom, of which the beginning cannot be
traced.
Impresses, sir, have in all ages been issued out by virtue of the
imperial prerogative, and have in all ages been obeyed; and if this
exertion of the authority had been considered as a method of severity
not compensated by the benefits which it produces, we cannot imagine but
former senates, amidst all their ardour for liberty, all their
tenderness for the people, and all their abhorrence of the power of the
crown, would have obviated it by some law, at those times when nothing
could have been refused them.
The proper time for new schemes and long deliberations, for amending our
constitution, and removing inveterate grievances, are the days of
prosperity and safety, when no immediate danger presses upon us, nor any
publick calamity appears to threaten us; but when war is declared, when
we are engaged in open hostilities against one nation, and expect to be
speedily attacked by another, we are not to try experiments, but apply
to dangerous evils those remedies, which, though disagreeable, we know
to be efficacious.
And though, sir, the petitioners have been more particular, I cannot
discover the reasonableness of hearing them by their council; for to
what purpose are the lawyers to be introduced? Not to instruct us by
their learning, for their employment is to understand the laws that have
been already made, and support the practices which they find
established. But the question before us relates not to the past but the
future, nor are we now to examine what has been done in former ages, but
what it will become us to establish on the present occasion; a subject
of inquiry on which this house can expect very little information from
the professors of the law?
Perhaps the petitioners expect from their counsel, that they should
display the fecundity of their imagination, and the elegance of their
language; that they should amuse us with the illusions of oratory,
dazzle us with bright ideas, affect us with strong representations, and
lull us with harmonious periods; but if it be only intended that just
facts and valid arguments should be laid before us, they will be
received without the decorations of the bar. For this end, sir, it would
have been sufficient had the merchants informed their representatives of
the methods which they have to propose; for the abilities of the
gentlemen whom the city has deputed to this assembly, are well known to
be such as stand in need of no assistance from occasional orators. Nor
can it be expected that any men will be found more capable of
understanding the arguments of the merchants, or better qualified to lay
them before the senate.
That every petitioner has, except on money bills, a right to be heard,
is undoubtedly true; but it is no less evident that this right is
limited to a certain time, and that on this occasion the proper time is
elapsed. Justice is due both to individuals and to the nation; if
petitions may at any time be offered, and are, whenever offered, to be
heard, a small body of men might, by unseasonable and importunate
petitions, retard any occasional law, till it should become unnecessary.
Petitions, sir, are to be offered when a new bill is brought into the
house, that all useful information may be obtained; but when it has
passed through the examination of the committees, has been approved by
the collective wisdom of the senate, and requires only a formal
ratification to give it the force of a law, it is neither usual nor
decent to offer petitions, or declare any dislike of what the senate has
admitted.
We are not, when we have proceeded thus far, to suffer pleaders to
examine our conduct, or vary our determinations, according to the
opinions of those whom we ought to believe less acquainted with the
question than ourselves. Should we once be reduced to ask advice, and
submit to dictators, what would be the reputation of this assembly in
foreign courts, or in our own country? What could be expected, but that
our enemies of every kind would endeavour to regulate our determinations
by bribing our instructers.
Nor can I think it necessary that lawyers should be employed in laying
before us any scheme which the merchants may propose, for supplying the
defects, and redressing the inconveniencies, of the laws by which
sailors are at present levied for the royal navy; for how should lawyers
be more qualified than other men, to explain the particular advantages
of such expedients, or to answer any objections which may happen to
rise?
It is well known that it is not easy for the most happy speaker to
impress his notions with the strength with which he conceives them, and
yet harder is the task of transmitting imparted knowledge, of conveying
to others those sentiments which we have not struck out by our own
reflection, nor collected from our own experience, but received merely
from the dictates of another.
Yet such must be the information that lawyers can give us, who can only
relate what they have implicitly received, and weaken the arguments
which they have heard, by an imperfect recital.
Nor do I only oppose the admission of lawyers to our bar, but think the
right of the merchants themselves, in the present case, very
questionable; for though in general it must be allowed, that every
petitioner has a claim to our attention, yet it is to be inquired
whether it is likely that the publick happiness is his chief concern,
and whether his private interest is not too much affected to suffer him
to give impartial evidence, or honest information. Scarcely any law can
be made by which some man is not either impoverished, or hindered from
growing rich; and we are not to listen to complaints, of which the
foundation is so easily discovered, or imagine a law less useful,
because those who suffer some immediate inconvenience from it, do not
approve it.
The question before us is required, by the present exigence of our
affairs, to be speedily decided; and though the merchants have, with
great tenderness, compassion, and modesty, condescended to offer us
their advice, I think expedition preferable to any information that can
reasonably be expected from them, and that as they will suffer, in the
first place, by any misconduct of our naval affairs, we shall show more
regard to their interest by manning our fleet immediately, than by
waiting three or four days for farther instructions.
Mr. SANDYS answered to this effect:--Sir, the merchants of London
whether we consider their numbers, their property, their integrity, or
their wisdom, are a body of too much importance to be thus
contemptuously rejected; rejected when they ask nothing that can be
justly denied to the meanest subject of the empire, when they propose to
speak on nothing but what their profession enables them to understand.
To no purpose is it urged, that the bill is far advanced, for if we have
not proceeded in the right way, we ought to be in more haste to return,
in proportion as we have gone farther; nor can I discover why we should
expedite, with so much assiduity, measures which are judged ineffectual,
by those who know their consequences best, and for whose advantage they
are particularly designed.
That we have already spent so much time in considering methods for
manning the fleet, is surely one reason why we should endeavour at last
to establish such as may be effectual; nor can we hope to succeed
without a patient attention to their opinion, who must necessarily be
well experienced in naval affairs.
It is surely, therefore, neither prudent nor just to shut out
intelligence from our assemblies, and ridicule the good intention of
those that offer it, to consult upon the best expedients for encouraging
and increasing sailors, and when the merchants offer their scheme, to
treat them as saucy, impertinent, idle meddlers, that assume--
Here the ATTORNEY GENERAL called him to order, and spoke after this
manner:--Sir, it is not very consistent to press the despatch of
business, and to retard it, at the same time, by invidious insinuations,
or unjust representations of arguments or expressions: whenever any
expression is censured, it ought to be repeated in the same words; for
otherwise, does not the animadverter raise the phantom that he
encounters? Does he not make the stain, which he endeavours, with so
much officious zeal, to wipe away.
That no epithets of contempt or ridicule have, in this debate, been
applied to the merchants, nor any violation of decency attempted, it is
unnecessary to prove, and, therefore, it is neither regular nor candid
to represent any man as aggravating the refusal of their petition with
reproaches and insults. But not to dwell longer on this incident, I will
take the liberty of reminding the gentleman, that personal invectives
are always, at least superfluous, and that the business of the day
requires rather arguments than satire.
Mr. SANDYS then spoke as follows:--Sir, I am by no means convinced that
the learned gentleman who charges me with irregularity, is better
acquainted than myself with the rules and customs of this house, which I
have studied with great application, assisted by long experience. I
hope, therefore, it will be no inexcusable presumption, if, instead of a
tacit submission to his censure, I assert, in my own vindication, that I
have not deviated from the established rules of the senate, that I have
spoken only in defence of merit insulted, and that I have condemned only
such injurious insinuations. I did not, sir, attempt to repeat
expressions, as ought not to be heard without reply.
Then the PRESIDENT said:--I believe the gentleman either heard
imperfectly, or misunderstood these expressions, which he so warmly
condemns, for nothing has been uttered that could justly excite his
indignation. My office obliges me on this occasion to remark, that the
regard due to the dignity of the house ought to restrain every member
from digressions into private satire; for in proportion as we proceed
with less decency, our determinations will have less influence.
Mr. PELHAM spoke next, in substance as follows:--Sir, the reputation
which the honourable gentleman has acquired by his uncommon knowledge of
the usages of the senate, is too well founded to be shaken, nor was any
attack upon his character intended, when he was interrupted in the
prosecution of his design. To censure any indecent expression, by
whomsoever uttered, is, doubtless, consistent with the strictest
regularity; nor is it less proper to obviate any misrepresentation which
inattention or mistake may produce.
I am far, sir, from thinking that the gentleman's indignation was
excited rather by malice than mistake; but mistakes of this kind may
produce consequences which cannot be too cautiously avoided. How
unwillingly would that gentleman propagate through the nation an opinion
that the merchants were insulted in this house, their interest
neglected, and their intelligence despised, at a time when no aspersion
was thrown upon them, nor any thing intended but tenderness and regard?
And yet such had been the representation of this day's debate, which
this numerous audience would have conveyed to the populace, had not the
mistake been immediately rectified, and the rumour crushed in the birth.
Nothing, sir, can be more injurious to the character of this assembly,
by which the people are represented, than to accuse them of treating any
class of men with insolence and contempt; and too much diligence cannot
be used in obviating a report which cannot be spread in the nation,
without giving rise to discontent, clamours, and sedition.
Those who shall be inclined to reject the petition, may, perhaps, act
with no less regard to the merchants, and may promote their interest and
their security with no less ardour than those who most solicitously
labour for its reception: for, if they are not allowed to be heard, it
is only because the publick interest requires expedition, and because
every delay of our preparations is an injury to trade.
That this is not a proper time for petitions against the bill to be
heard, is universally known; and I can discover nothing in the petition
that restrains it to this particular clause, which is so far from being
specified, that it appears to be the only part of the bill of which they
have had no intelligence.
Let the warmest advocates for the petition point out any part of it that
relates to this single clause, and I will retract my assertion; but as
it appears that there are only general declarations of the inexpediency
of the measures proposed, and the pernicious tendency of the methods now
in use, what is the petition, but a complaint against the bill, and a
request that it should be laid aside.
The practice of impresses, sir, is particularly censured, as severe and
oppressive; a charge which, however true, has no relation to this
clause, which is intended to promote the voluntary engagement of sailors
in the service of the crown; yet it may not be improper to observe, that
as the practice of impressing is, in itself, very efficacious, and well
adapted to sudden emergencies; as it has been established by a long
succession of ages, and is, therefore, become almost a part of our
constitution; and as it is at this time necessary to supply the navy
with the utmost expedition, it is neither decent nor prudent to complain
too loudly against, or to heighten the discontent of the people at a
necessary evil.
We have, sir, examined every part of this bill with the attention which
the defence of the nation requires; we have softened the rigour of the
methods first proposed, and admitted no violence or hardship that is not
absolutely necessary, to make the law effectual, which, like every other
law, must be executed by force, if it be obstructed or opposed. We have
inserted a great number of amendments, proposed by those who are
represented as the most anxious guardians of the privileges of the
people; and it is not, surely, to no purpose that the great council of
the nation has so long and so studiously laboured.
Those who are chosen by the people to represent them, have undoubtedly,
sir, some claim as individuals to their confidence and respect; for to
imagine that they have committed the great charge of senatorial
employments, that they have trusted their liberties and their happiness
to those whose integrity they suspect, or whose understandings they
despise, is to imagine them much more stupid than they have been
represented by those who are censured as their enemies.
But far different is the regard due to the determinations formed by the
collective wisdom of the senate; a regard which ought to border upon
reverence, and which is scarcely consistent with the least murmur of
dissatisfaction.
If we are to hear the present petitioners, is it not probable, that
before we have despatched them, we shall be solicited by others, who
will then plead the same right, supported by a new precedent? And is it
not possible that by one interruption upon another, our measures may be
delayed, till they shall be ineffectual?
It seems to me to be of much more importance to defend the merchants
than to hear them; and I shall, therefore, think no concessions at this
time expedient, which may obstruct the great end of our endeavours, the
equipment of the fleet.
Mr. PULTENEY then spoke as follows:--Sir, notwithstanding the art and
eloquence with which this grant of the merchants' petition has been
opposed, I am not yet able to discover that any thing is asked
unreasonable, unprecedented, or inconvenient; and I am confident, that
no real objection can have been overlooked by the gentlemen who have
spoken against it.
I have spent, sir, thirty-five years of my life in the senate, and know
that information has always, upon important questions, been willingly
received; and it cannot surely be doubted that the petitioners are best
able to inform us of naval business, and to judge what will be the right
method of reconciling the sailors to the publick service, and of
supplying our fleets without injuring our trade.
Their abilities and importance have been hitherto so generally
acknowledged, that no senate has yet refused to attend to their opinion;
and surely we ought not to be ambitious of being the first assembly of
the representatives of the people, that has refused an audience to the
merchants.
With regard to the expedience of delaying the bill at the present
conjuncture, he must think very contemptuously of the petitioners, who
imagines that they have nothing to offer that will counterbalance a
delay of two days, and must entertain an elevated idea of the vigilance
and activity of our enemies, enemies never before eminent for
expedition, if he believes that they can gain great advantages in so
short a time.
The chief reason of the opposition appears, indeed, not to be either the
irregularity or inexpediency of hearing them, but the offence which some
have received from an irreverent mention of the power of impressing, a
power which never can be mentioned without complaint or detestation.
It is not, indeed, impossible that they may intend to represent to the
house, how much the sailors are oppressed, how much our commerce is
impeded, and how much the power of the nation is exhausted, by this
cruel method. They may propose to show that sailors, not having the
choice of their voyages, are often hurried through a sudden change of
climates, from one extreme to another, and that nothing can be expected
from such vicissitudes, but sickness, lameness, and death. They may
propose, that to have just arrived from the south may be pleaded as an
exemption from an immediate voyage to the north, and that the seaman may
have some time to prepare himself for so great an alteration, by a
residence of a few months in a temperate climate.
If this should be their intention, it cannot, in my opinion, sir, be
called either unreasonable or disrespectful, nor will their allegations
be easily disproved.
But it is insinuated, that their grievances are probably such as affect
them only as distinct from the rest of the community, and that they have
nothing to complain of but a temporary interruption of their private
advantage.
I have, indeed, no idea of the _private advantage_ of a legal trader:
for unless, sir, we neglect our duty of providing that no commerce shall
be carried on to the detriment of the publick, the merchant's profit
must be the profit of the nation, and their interests inseparably
combined.
It may, however, be possible, that the merchants may, like other men,
prefer their immediate to their greater advantage, and may be impatient
of a painful remedy, though necessary to prevent a more grievous evil.
But let us not censure them by suspicion, and punish them for a crime
which it is only possible they may commit; let us, sir, at least have
all the certainty that can be obtained, and allow them an audience; let
us neither be so positive as not to receive information, nor so rigorous
as not to listen to entreaties.
If the merchants have nothing to offer, nothing but complaints, and can
propose no better measures than those which they lament, if their
arguments should be found to regard only their present interest, and to
be formed upon narrow views and private purposes, it will be easy to
detect the imposture, and reject it with the indignation it shall
deserve; nor will our proceedings be then censured by the nation, which
requires not that the merchants should be implicitly believed, though it
expects that they should be heard. Let us at least have a _convention_,
though we should not be able to conclude a treaty.
I know not, sir, why we have not taken care to obviate all these
difficulties, and to remove the necessity of petitions, debates,
searches, and impresses, by the plain and easy method of a voluntary
register; by retaining such a number of seamen as may probably be
requisite upon sudden emergencies. Would not the nation with more
cheerfulness contribute half-pay to those who are daily labouring for
the publick good, than to the caterpillars of the land service, that
grow old in laziness, and are disabled only by vice?
Let ten thousand men receive daily a small salary, upon condition that
they shall be ready, whenever called upon, to engage in the service of
the crown, and the difficulty of our naval preparations will be at an
end.
That it is necessary to exert ourselves on this occasion, and to strike
out some measures for securing the dominion of the ocean, cannot be
denied by any one who considers that we have now no other pretensions to
maintain; that all our influence on the continent, at whatever expense
gained and supported, is now in a manner lost, and only the reputation
of our naval strength remains to preserve us from being trampled on and
insulted by every power, and from finding Spaniards in every climate.
Sir William YONGE spoke, in substance, as follows:--Sir, the violence
and severity of impresses, so often and so pathetically complained of,
appears to be now nothing more than a punishment inflicted upon those
who neglect or refuse to receive the encouragement offered, with the
utmost liberality, by the government, and decline the service of their
country from a spirit of avarice, obstinacy, or resentment.
That such men deserve some severities, cannot be doubted, and therefore
a law by which no penalty should be enacted, would be imperfect and
ineffectual. The observation, sir, of all laws is to be enforced by
rewards on one side, and punishments on the other, that every passion
may be influenced, and even our weakness made instrumental to the
performance of our duty.
In the bill before us no punishment is, indeed, expressly decreed,
because the sailors who shall disregard it, are only left to their
former hardships, from which those who engage voluntarily in the service
of the navy are exempted.
Why so many rewards and so much violence should be necessary to allure
or force the sailors into the publick service, I am unable to
comprehend: for, excepting the sudden change of climates, which may,
doubtless, sometimes bring on distempers, the service of the king has no
disadvantages which are not common to that of the merchants.
The wages in the navy are, indeed, less: but then it is to be
remembered, that they are certainly paid, and that the sailor is in less
danger of losing, by a tempest or a wreck, the whole profits of his
voyage; because, if he can preserve his life, he receives his pay. But
in trading voyages, the seamen mortgage their wages, as a security for
their care, which, if the ship is lost, they are condemned to forfeit.
Thus, sir, the hardships of the navy appear not so great when compared
with those of the merchants' service, as they have been hitherto
represented; and I doubt not, that if counsellors were to be heard on
both sides, the measures taken for supplying the fleet would be found to
be reasonable and just.
Sir John BARNARD rose to speak, when Mr. FOX called to order, and
proceeded:
Sir, it is well known to be one of the standing and unvariable orders of
this house, that no member shall speak twice in a debate on the same
question, except when for greater freedom we resolve ourselves into a
committee. Upon this question the honourable gentleman has already
spoken, and cannot, therefore, be heard again without such a
transgression of our orders as must inevitably produce confusion.
Sir John BARNARD spoke thus:--Sir, I know not for what reason the
honourable gentleman apprehends any violation of the order of the house;
for, as I have not yet spoken upon the present question, I have an
undoubted right to be heard, a right which that gentleman cannot take
away.
Sir William YONGE next spoke, to this effect:--Sir, I know not by what
secret distinction the gentleman supports in his own mind this
declaration, which, to the whole house, must appear very difficult to be
defended; for we must, before we can admit it, allow our memories to
have forsaken us, and our eyes and ears to have been deceived.
Did he not, as soon as the clause before us was read, rise and assert
the characters of the petitioners, and their right to the attention of
the house? Did he not dwell upon their importance, their abilities, and
their integrity; and enforce, with his usual eloquence, every motive to
the reception of the petition? How then can he assert that he has not
spoken in the present debate, and how can he expect to be heard a second
time, since, however his eloquence may please, and his arguments
convince, that pleasure and conviction cannot now be obtained, without
infringing the standing orders of the house.
Then the PRESIDENT rose, and spoke to this purport: It is not without
uneasiness that I see the time of the house, and of the publick, wasted
in fruitless cavils and unnecessary controversies. Every gentleman ought
now to consider that we are consulting upon no trivial question, and
that expedition is not less necessary than accuracy. It cannot be
denied, sir, [to sir John BARNARD] that you have already spoken on this
question, and that the rules of the house do not allow you to speak a
second time.
Sir Robert WALPOLE said:--Sir, I am far from thinking the order of the
house so sacred, as that it may not be neglected on some important
occasions; and if the gentleman has any thing to urge so momentous,
that, in his own opinion, it outweighs the regard due to our rules, I
shall willingly consent that he shall be heard.
Sir John BARNARD spoke as follows:--Sir, I am far from being inclined to
receive as a favour, what, in my own opinion, I may claim as a right,
and desire not to owe the liberty of speaking to the condescension of
the right honourable gentleman.
What I have to urge is no less against the bill in general, than the
particular clause now immediately under our consideration, and though
the petition should relate likewise to the whole bill, I cannot discover
why we should refuse to hear it.
Petitions from men of much inferiour rank, and whose interest is much
less closely connected with that of the publick, have been thought
necessary to be heard, nor is the meanest individual to be injured or
restrained, without being admitted to offer his arguments in his own
favour. Even the journeymen shoemakers, one of the lowest classes of the
community, have been permitted to bring their counsel to our bar, and
remonstrate against the inconveniencies to which they were afraid of
being subjected.
Mr. WINNINGTON spoke thus:--Sir, I am always willing to hear petitions,
when respectfully drawn up, and regularly subscribed, but can by no
means discover that this is a real petition, for I have heard of no
names affixed to it; it is, therefore, a request from nobody, and by
rejecting it no man is refused. It may, so far as can be discovered, be
drawn up by the gentleman who offered it, and, perhaps, no other person
may be acquainted with it.
Mr. HAY spoke to the following purport:--Sir, it is, in my opinion,
necessary that a petition in the name of the merchants of London should
be subscribed by the whole number, for if only a few should put their
names to it, how does it appear that it is any thing more than an
apprehension of danger to their own particular interest, which, perhaps,
the other part, their rivals in trade, may consider as an advantage, or
at least regard with indifference. This suspicion is much more
reasonable, when a petition is subscribed by a smaller number, who may
easily be imagined to have partial views, and designs not wholly
consistent with the interest of the publick.
Admiral WAGER then spoke thus:--Sir, if I am rightly informed, another
petition is preparing by several eminent merchants, that this clause may
stand part of the bill; and, certainly, they ought to be heard as well
as the present petitioners, which will occasion great and unnecessary
delays, and, therefore, I am against the motion.
Advocate CAMPBELL answered to this effect:--Sir, I agree with that
honourable gentleman, that if the merchants are divided in opinion upon
this point, one side ought to be heard as well as the other, and hope
the house will come to a resolution for that purpose: for I shall
invariably promote every proposal which tends to procure the fullest
information in all affairs that shall come before us.
[Then the question was put, that the farther consideration of the report
be adjourned for two days, in order to hear the merchants, and it passed
in the negative, ayes, 142; noes, 192.]
[On the report this day, the eleven clauses of severity were given up
without any division, and a clause was added, viz. "Provided that
nothing in this bill shall be construed to extend to any contracts or
agreements for the hire of seamen (or persons employed as such) in
voyages from parts beyond the seas, to any other parts beyond the seas,
or to Great Britain."]
The engrossed bill "for the increase and encouragement of seamen," was
read, according to order, when Mr. DIGBY rose, and spoke as follows:--
Sir, I have a clause to be offered to the house, as necessary to be
inserted in the bill before us, which was put into my hands by a member,
whom a sudden misfortune has made unable to attend his duty, and which,
in his opinion, and mine, is of great importance, and I shall,
therefore, take the liberty of reading it.
"Be it enacted, that every seaman offering himself to serve his majesty,
shall, upon being refused, receive from such captain, lieutenant, or
justice of the peace, a certificate, setting forth the reasons for which
he is refused, which certificate may be produced by him, as an exemption
from being seized by a warrant of impress."
I hope the reasonableness and equity of this clause is so incontestably
apparent, that it will find no opposition; for what can be more cruel,
unjust, or oppressive, than to punish men for neglect of a law which
they have endeavoured to obey. To what purpose are rewards offered, if
they are denied to those who come to claim them? What is it less than
theft, and fraud, to force a man into the service, who would willingly
have entered, and subject him to hardships, without the recompense which
he may justly demand from the solemn promise of the legislature.
Admiral WAGER next spoke to this effect:--Sir, to this clause, which the
gentleman has represented as so reasonable and just, objections may, in
my opinion, be easily made, of which he will himself acknowledge the
force. The great obstruction of publick measures is partiality, whether
from friendship, bribery, or any other motive; against partiality alone
the clause which is now offered, is levelled; and, indeed, it is so
dangerous an evil, that it cannot be obviated with too much caution.
But this clause, instead of preventing private correspondence, and
illegal combinations, has an evident tendency to produce them, by
inciting men to apply with pretended offers of service to those who are
before suborned to refuse them, then make a merit of their readiness,
and demand a certificate.
By such artifices multitudes may exempt themselves from the impress, who
may be known to be able sailors, even by those that conduct it; and may,
under the protection of a certificate, fallaciously obtained, laugh at
all endeavours to engage them in the publick service.
Mr. DIGBY spoke thus:--Sir, if this authority, lodged in the hands of
those who are proposed in the clause to be intrusted with it, be in
danger of being executed, without due regard to the end for which it is
granted, let it be placed where there is neither temptation nor
opportunity to abuse it. Let the admiralty alone have the power of
granting such certificates, the officers of which will be able to judge
whether the sailor is really unfit for the service, and deliver those
whom age or accidents have disabled from the terrour of impresses; for
surely, he that is fit to serve, when taken by violence, is no less
qualified when he enters voluntarily, and he who could not be admitted
when he tendered himself, ought not to be dragged away, when, perhaps,
he has contracted for another voyage.
Mr. WAGER replied:--Sir, it is, doubtless, more proper to place such
authority in the officers of the admiralty, than in any other; but it
does not appear that the benefit which the sailors may receive from it,
to whatever hands it is intrusted, will not be overbalanced by the
injury which the publick will probably suffer.
Sailors are frequently levied in remote parts of the kingdom; in ports
where the admiralty cannot speedily be informed of the reasons for which
those that may petition for certificates have been refused, and
therefore cannot grant them without danger of being deceived by
fraudulent accounts.
The grievance for which the remedy is proposed cannot frequently occur;
for it is not probable that in a time of naval preparations, any man
qualified for the service should be rejected, since the officers gain
nothing by their refusal.
Mr. HAY spoke as follows:--Sir, it is very possible that those instances
which may be produced of men, who have been impressed by one officer,
after they have been rejected by another, may be only the consequences
of the high value which every man is ready to set upon his own
abilities: for he that offers himself, no doubt, demands the highest
premium, though he be not an able sailor; and, if rejected, and
afterwards impressed as a novice, thinks himself at liberty to complain,
with the most importunate vehemence, of fraud, partiality, and
oppression.
[The question being put was resolved in the negative, almost
unanimously.]
Mr. SOUTHWELL offered a clause, importing, "That all sailors who should
take advance-money of the merchants, should be obliged to perform their
agreements, or be liable to be taken up by any magistrate or justice of
the peace, and deemed deserters, except they were in his majesty's ships
of war."
He was seconded by lord GAGE:--Sir, as this clause has no other tendency
than to promote the interest of the merchants, without obstructing the
publick preparations; as it tends only to confirm legal contracts, and
facilitate that commerce from whence the wealth and power of this nation
arises, I hope it will readily be admitted; as we may, by adding this
sanction to the contracts made between the merchants and sailors, in
some degree balance the obstructions wherewith we have embarrassed trade
by the other clauses.
Admiral WAGER replied:--This clause is unquestionably reasonable, but
not necessary; for it is to be found already in an act made for the
encouragement of the merchants, which is still in force, and ought,
whenever any such frauds are committed, to be rigorously observed.
Sir Robert WALPOLE then desired that the clerk might read the act, in
which the clause was accordingly found, and Mr. SOUTHWELL withdrew his
motion.
[Then the question was put, whether the bill "for the increase and
encouragement of sailors" do pass, which was resolved in the
affirmative, 153 against 79.]