Mr. EISENBERG. If you will admit it into evidence, it will be 607.
Mr. DULLES. It may be admitted.
(The photograph referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 607 and
was received in evidence.)
(At this point Representative Ford entered the hearing room.)
Mr. DULLES. All right.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Cunningham, we have introduced a photograph, which
is Commission Exhibit No. 607, which shows four bullets labeled
"C-252," "R-P," "C-253," and "Western."
Are two of those bullets the bullets which you just identified as
Exhibit 606?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. No; Commission Exhibit 606, the copper-coated Western
bullet, is the same bullet that was in this photograph, labeled the
Western bullet.
Mr. EISENBERG. Could you hold that up?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir; that is the bullet.
Mr. EISENBERG. The copper-coated or copper-colored bullet in 606
corresponds with the far right-hand side bullet labeled "Western" in
607?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is right.
Mr. EISENBERG. What about the lead-colored bullet in 606?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is a Remington-Peters 158-grain lead bullet. I do
not have that one with me.
Mr. EISENBERG. This would be similar in appearance though to the bullet
which was photographed as the "R-P" bullet?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. No, it isn't.
Mr. EISENBERG. Why is that?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Because this is a Winchester.
Mr. EISENBERG. Why isn't it copper coated?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. The Western Cartridge Division of Olin Mathieson Corp.
loads both lead- and copper-coated bullets into their .38 Specials.
As of today, Winchester is only loading--under that brand--uncoated
bullets. That is what their latest catalog says.
Only Western is loading copper-coated bullets. They are both made in
the same factory--they are both made by the Western Cartridge Division
of Olin Mathieson Chemical Corp. in East Alton, Ill.
Mr. EISENBERG. So you didn't give us an R-P test bullet?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I did not.
Mr. EISENBERG. I see. Did you use an R-P test bullet in attempting to
make your identification?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes; you asked for our first two tests.
Mr. EISENBERG. I see. Okay. Can you show by use of that photograph,
Exhibit 607, how you were able to determine that certain of the bullets
found in Officer Tippit were of R-P manufacture, .38 Special, and
certain were Winchester-Western?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes.
First of all, in the manufacture of these bullets, each manufacturer
has his own specifications for how they are to look. By that I mean
generally that both manufacturers' bullets are similar. They are
similar in weight. They are generally similar in size and diameter
as well as length. However, the number and the spacing between the
grooves--these grooves, the cannelures, are not similar. It is actually
a knurling process, you can see the knurling marks.
Mr. DULLES. What is the purpose of those?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Lubrication grooves. .38 Specials being lead
bullets--in order to keep down excessive leading they put in a
lubricant--Remington-Peters--they use a very dark heavy lubricant.
Western-Winchester, they use a very light-colored waxy type of
lubricant.
Mr. DULLES. Thank you.
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Up above you will see a small groove. It is nothing
more than just a slight groove. That can be caused when the case is
crimped, the bullet is crimped into the case.
Representative FORD. That is in the R-P?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. On both of them, sir.
Representative FORD. That is on both?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes; you see one here, that has actually been put in.
They load up to that certain place and they crimp into that groove,
which is known as a crimping groove.
Mr. EISENBERG. When you say crimping groove, do you mean the cartridge
is tightened around the case?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. The neck of the case is tightened around--is crimped
into the bullet. The distance between the base to the first cannelure,
and the width of the cannelure, the portion of the bullet between the
two cannelures, and the width of the next cannelure, is individual with
Remington-Peters bullets.
In other words, Western-Winchester bullets are not made with the same
width cannelures and the same distances between the two of them. Each
manufacturer prefers to have a certain distance between cannelures and
a certain width of cannelure, and it is strictly individual to each
company. By these specifications--and also another very important thing
is the base shape--you can determine whether or not a bullet is of one
manufacture or another.
If you will take these two, one of the tests in Commission Exhibit No.
606, you will see that the number, the width and everything about the
copper-coated Western and the uncoated Winchester are the same. In
other words, they put a flash coat of the gilding metal on the bullet
and as I testified previously its chief value is for sales appeal, and,
a secondary value to prevent leading.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. DULLES. Back on the record again. Continue please.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Cunningham, as of November 22, 1963, how many major
manufacturers were there in the United States who were manufacturing
.38 Special bullets?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Three.
Mr. EISENBERG. Who were they?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. First, is the Western Cartridge Division of Olin
Mathieson Chemical Corp., East Alton, Ill., which manufactures
ammunition under the trade names "Western" as well as "Winchester."
The next major manufacturer is Du Pont, and they manufacture in
their Remington Cartridge Division ammunition under the trade names
"Remington" and "Peters," and the third manufacturer is Federal
Cartridge Co. in Minneapolis.
Mr. EISENBERG. How many manufacturers of .38 Special ammunition are
there outside the United States, approximately?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I would have no way of knowing all of them. I know it
is manufactured in Canada by Dominion, and Norma also manufactures it.
Mr. DULLES. What was that name?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Norma.
Mr. DULLES. N-o-r-m-a?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Representative FORD. In Canada too?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir; it is in Sweden.
DWM in Germany must manufacture it, I am just recalling these
larger manufacturers that should manufacture it. Also, some English
manufacturers.
Mr. EISENBERG. How are you certain that one of the bullets found
in Officer Tippit was not manufactured by one of the foreign
manufacturers, either one you are acquainted with or one you are not?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. We maintain a Test Specimen and a Standard Ammunition
File, and we have foreign ammunition in them, although I don't think we
have all of the foreign. But we have never come across a foreign-made
bullet with the same physical characteristics as the bullets
represented by those removed from the body of Officer Tippit.
Mr. EISENBERG. Do you attempt to get a complete file of .38 Special
ammunition?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. We definitely maintain an up-to-date file in our
Standard Ammunition File in the laboratory of all domestic manufactured
ammunition as well as some foreign, for instance, Norma and Dominion,
and we have specimens from other foreign manufacturers.
Mr. EISENBERG. And you say that of the specimens you do have which you
feel are as complete as possible you have never come across two types
which are similar at least to these .38 Specials?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is correct.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now Mr. Frazier yesterday said that the Walker bullet
seemed to be a 6.5 millimeter bullet or may have been fired from the
6.5 millimeter Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, had the same general rifling
characteristics as was found on that rifle which is in evidence as
Commission Exhibit----
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. 139.
Mr. EISENBERG. Yes; 139.
Now do you have a complete file of 6.5 or a large file of 6.5
millimeter ammunition?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. We have some.
Mr. EISENBERG. Do you feel it is as complete as your .38 Special file?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. No; I do not. However, we have never found any foreign
manufacturer manufacturing 6.5 Mannlicher-Carcano ammunition that was
similar to this.
From its general appearance, it has all the similarities of a
western-world-manufactured bullet----