Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir; well--these would be very difficult--in other

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir; well--these would be very difficult on

account of the case. They would be hard to resize on account of the

fact the case is pushed out due to the rechambering. But they could be

used; yes, sir.

Mr. EISENBERG. When you say there is no indication, would there be an

indication if they were resized?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes; usually--unless the sizing die was extremely

clean--usually you will get your resizing marks from the resizing die.

Mr. EISENBERG. And in particular you say the cartridge cases from this

particular weapon show a substantial amount of bulge?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. They do. As you brought to my attention, there is a

crack in the one case. I would not care to use this type of brass if

I were hand loading. I would find brass that had been fired in a .38

Special.

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, by the way, the various cartridge cases, the four

cartridge cases and four bullets that you have identified, and that you

obtained from your Dallas Office and other sources, that is, Exhibits

594 and 602, 603, 604, and 605, are these now in the same condition as

they were when you originally got them?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Substantially. A small sample was taken off the noise

which was run spectrographically. But the major portions of all these

bullets are the same as when they were received in the laboratory.

Mr. EISENBERG. Did you clean them in any way or alter them?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes; we had to clean them. They were removed from the

body and were bloody. You could not see the surfaces. We had to put

them in haemo-sol, which is nothing more than a material that will take

out the blood.

Mr. EISENBERG. Is that true of all four bullets? That is true of the

last three bullets as well as the original bullet?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Q-13 was cleaned of blood tissue in haemo-sol. I do not

think I have anything in the notes that the last three were cleaned at

all.

Mr. EISENBERG. Would that indicate they were not cleaned?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I would say so, because I would have put it down.

Mr. EISENBERG. Was the substance removed from the first bullet tested

to see whether it was blood, or did you just assume it was blood?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. No examination was made of it.

Mr. EISENBERG. Was there any dirt on the cartridge case?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I don't remember any.

Mr. EISENBERG. Would your notes show if you had cleaned it up?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. And they do not show any cleaning up?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. No.

Mr. EISENBERG. You said these revolver bullets were sold in boxes of

how many?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Fifty.

Mr. EISENBERG. Will a storekeeper, a gun man who sells bullets, sell

less than 50 usually, in your experience?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Maybe some small outfit would. But I just don't know of

any around here that will.

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Oswald was found with two types of ammunition, two

makes of .38 Special cartridges. Would you infer than that----

Representative BOGGS. What two types?

Mr. EISENBERG. R.-P., or Remington-Peters, and Western-Winchester.

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. They were Westerns.

Mr. EISENBERG. Would you infer on the basis of your previous statement

that he had probably bought a larger quantity?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. The inference would be that he had at least two boxes.

Mr. EISENBERG. At some point?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes; either that or he had obtained them from another

individual.

Mr. EISENBERG. How about the rifle ammunition, this 6.5

Mannlicher-Carcano rifle ammunition--how is that commonly sold--the

Western brand?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That would depend on the surplus house, how it is sold.

Mr. EISENBERG. You think that might be sold in less than fixed minimum

quantities?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Many times that type of ammunition, surplus ammunition,

is sold in any amount. They will give a single price, single cartridge

price--or they will take off some if you buy them by the thousand or

the hundred. That is a lot different than commercially made ammunition

for sale in this country.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, I would like to examine this witness now

on the paraffin test, if there are no further questions on the areas we

have been covering up to now.

Representative FORD. Any questions, Mr. Boggs?

Representative BOGGS. I don't think so.

Representative FORD. Mr. Rhyne?

Mr. RHYNE. Yes; you said that you were positive that these cartridge

cases that were found near where Officer Tippit was killed, and which

are over in front of Representative Boggs now, were fired in this gun.

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. As I stated the first time, in my opinion those

cartridge cases were fired in that particular weapon to the exclusion

of all other weapons.

Mr. RHYNE. And with respect to the bullets that were found in the body

of Officer Tippit, you testified that you could not be positive that

they were fired by this weapon, Exhibit 143.

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I could not identify those bullets as having been fired

from that gun. However, the rifling characteristics on the bullets

are the same as produced by that weapon. Also, I could not identify

consecutive tests obtained from that revolver, using .38 Special

ammunition, and I could not identify, even though there are microscopic

marks on three of these bullets for comparison purposes--I could not

identify them with each other.

Mr. RHYNE. Now, based on your many, many years of experience, is this

usual or unusual, that you are unable to identify bullets from such a

gun under these circumstances?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. It is not unusual in this particular case. I have

had other cases with these rechambered .38 S&W revolvers, that are

rechambered to a .38 Special; it is not unusual to not be able to

identify them. And especially when the barrel has been cut off 2-3/4

inches, it even cuts down the possibility a little bit more.

Mr. RHYNE. I was under the impression that you people down at the FBI

could identify almost any bullet as coming from almost any gun. That is

not strictly true, then?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Thank you, but it is not.

Representative BOGGS. How much has this barrel been cut off?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. About 2-3/4 inches. You measure the length of the

barrel from--you see the cylinder----

Representative BOGGS. Yes.

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. And the portion coming out from the frame, that is a

portion of the barrel. And the barrel is measured from there to the

muzzle. And the barrel now is 2-1/4 inches long. The original barrel

was 5 inches long--or at least it is similar to the model that would

have a 5-inch barrel.

Representative BOGGS. What is the advantage of reducing the length of

the barrel?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Two things--sales appeal and concealment.

Representative BOGGS. Does it affect the firing quality of the weapon?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. It affects your accuracy inasmuch as it cuts down on

your sight radius. Your longer barrel will be more accurate than a

shorter barrel, due to the longer sight radius. The reason that rifles

are inherently more accurate than a hand weapon is due, in part, to

the longer sight radius. That is the reason the farther you can get

away from the sight when you are firing a revolver, the more accurate.

Lengthening your sight radius will increase the accuracy.

Mr. RHYNE. Based on your experience in your study of these bullets, do

you have an opinion as to whether or not they were fired by this gun?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir; I cannot determine that.

Mr. RHYNE. You have no opinion at all?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. The only thing I can testify to, is they could have,

on the basis of the rifling characteristics--they could have been.

However, no conclusion could be reached from an actual comparison of

these bullets with test bullets obtained from that gun.

Mr. RHYNE. Even though there are a lot of similar markings.

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. There are not; no, sir. There are not a lot of similar

markings. They are similar. The rifling characteristics, are the same,

or similar. But, in the individual characteristic marks, there are not

a lot of similarities. There are not sufficient similarities to effect

an identification.

Representative BOGGS. Stating Mr. Rhyne's question negatively, these

bullets could have been fired by another weapon?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is correct. Either this weapon or another weapon

which has the same rifling characteristics.

Representative FORD. You are limiting that to the bullets now?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. The bullets.

Mr. RHYNE. Yes; my question related just to the bullets.

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I identified the cartridge cases.

Mr. RHYNE. He was positive about the cartridge cases, but not about the

bullets.

Representative BOGGS. Now, would it be likely to find these cartridge

cases, which you can positively identify as having been fired from this

weapon--would it be likely that these bullets which you cannot identify

as having been fired from this weapon--would it be likely that they

would be fired from another weapon under those circumstances?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Well, that, sir, depends on other extraneous facts

other than my comparisons and examinations. In other words, I can only

testify to what I actually found from an examination and comparison of

those bullets with these test bullets from that gun. And as to anything

else, I cannot testify. I mean--that would be based upon other facts.

Mr. EISENBERG. Carrying some of these questions a little bit further,

Mr. Cunningham, you say that this bullet could have been fired from

this gun, and was fired from a gun with these rifling characteristics?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Which you said were five lands, five grooves, right

twist?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. What about the widths of the lands and grooves? Did you

measure those?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes; they were also the same. In other words, when I

say it has similar rifling characteristics--the widths of the lands and

the grooves is taken into account the rifling characteristics. It has

the same width and number of lands and grooves and a right twist.

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, how many other--well, before I ask that, you have

also established that the bullets were .38 Specials?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is correct.

Mr. EISENBERG. And the manufacturer of each bullet?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is correct.

Mr. EISENBERG. Would you say they had been fired therefore from a gun

chambered for a .38 Special?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes; there was no indication that they were fired in a

weapon other than .38 caliber.

Mr. EISENBERG. So that the weapon was a .38 Special weapon with five

lands, five grooves, right twist, and with the same dimensions for each

land and each groove.

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, would the entire production run of this model

conform to that description?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes. And also there are other models.

Mr. EISENBERG. Other models also produced by Smith and Wesson?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes; in .38 Special.

Mr. EISENBERG. Could you estimate the number of those guns?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. May I have the NRA reprint? My estimate comes from the

figures that are set forth in Commission Exhibit 593, which states that

by 1942 there were a million "Military and Police" revolvers, which is

the prior model to the Victory model, which they produced.

Representative BOGGS. That is this model?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir. But the model has similar rifling

characteristics. You could not distinguish between them. In other

words, one is a commercially made gun--this is strictly a wartime gun.

Also production of the "S" series continued until 1948, when the "C"

series was started, including over one million "M&P" models, including

the Victory model, which was this model, were manufactured between

1942 through March of 1948; and since that date, Smith and Wesson has

produced over 500,000 "M&P" revolvers in the "C" series, which, when

you add them up--there are over two and a half million.

Mr. EISENBERG. Two and a half million?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Over 2-1/2 million.

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, apart from specially handmade or equivalent

weapons, how many other types of weapons have you encountered which

have these rifling characteristics?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Other than possibly a Spanish-made copy of the

Smith--the Smith is the only one in .38 Special now that will have

similar rifling characteristics.

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, when you say Spanish-made, you are referring to the

basement type of operation?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, this weapon did not produce, and does not

produce--that is, the weapon 143--does not produce identical

microscopic characteristics from bullet to bullet, you have testified.

And you have told us that the reason might be that the weapon was

rechambered but not rebarrelled, so that the .38 Special is slightly

undersized for the barrel?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. It has not been rebarrelled.

Mr. EISENBERG. That's right. So when you fire a .38 Special, it is

slightly undersized, and this might affect the barrel characteristics?

Wasn't that your testimony? That the .38 Special is slightly undersized?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes; approximately four-thousandths of an inch.

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, could you therefore limit the number of possible

weapons from which the bullets might have been fired, not only to the

2-1/2 million S&W's which you discussed, plus the possibility of

Spanish homemade weapons, but also to those weapons, that subcategory

of weapons within those 2-1/2 million, which does not produce

microscopic characteristics such that you can identify bullets fired

from them?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir; you cannot, due to the fact that there was

also the possibility that the inability to identify consecutive tests

from that weapon could be caused from an accumulation of lead or from

barrel wear--the barrel was actually physically changing.

Mr. EISENBERG. That is not quite what I meant. Out of every ten S&W .38

Specials, on the basis of your experience, how many do you think would

produce rifling characteristics such that you could identify bullets

fired from them?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Well, you could tell if the rifling characteristics are

similar. But as far as the individual characteristic marks, that would

be on an individual basis. Much depends on the imperfections in the

barrel. Now, if you have some real deep imperfections in a barrel, it

would be possible to pick them up each time. Even though you would have

a lot of dissimilarities, the similarities would be so distinctive that

there is always a possibility you could identify them. But not this

weapon.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Rhyne asked before whether it was usual or unusual

to get this type of weapon not producing microscopic characteristics

such that you could identify the bullet to the gun. You said it was not

unusual.

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. It is not unusual.

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, I say out of every 10 such weapons, how many would

you expect to be in this condition--that is, in a condition such that

you cannot make an identification?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I would have no way of knowing that.

Mr. EISENBERG. On the basis of your experience, the experience that led

you to say it is not unusual to have this condition?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I can only say that you find them, that you cannot

identify them, so it is not unusual. But as to numbers, I could not

say. When you go back and you take all the hundreds and hundreds of

examinations I have made, it is not unusual. But I also will not say

that it is usual. I will go to the negative, I will say it is not

unusual.

Mr. EISENBERG. Would you agree that out of the 2-1/2 million possible

weapons it could only have been fired from a gun which will not produce

microscopic characteristics such that you can identify the bullet to

the weapon?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. There is a good indication of that; yes. However,

there is mutilation on all four of the bullets. But the three we are

talking about, the ones that had marks for comparison purposes, now,

even though the possibility is remote, it is still possible that there

is mutilation in different areas of each bullet, so you would not be

able to identify them. Even if the bullets--even if they had not been

mutilated, you maybe still could not identify them. In other words,

your mutilation on different parts of each bullet would preclude the

possibility of identifying them with each other. So I cannot answer

your question positively.

Mr. EISENBERG. Well, Mr. Chairman, I have one subject remaining with

this witness. Mr. Cunningham, are you familiar with the paraffin test?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I am.

Mr. EISENBERG. Have you administered this test?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I have.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you give us the approximate number of times you have

administered it?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I don't know the exact number, but I must have

performed this test at least 100 times, and probably more.

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, I will state for the record--I know you do not know

of this of your own knowledge, Mr. Cunningham--but a paraffin test was

performed on Lee Harvey Oswald by the Dallas Police. Three paraffin

casts were made, one of the right cheek, one of the right hand, and one

of the left hand. There was no reaction on the paraffin test of the

right cheek. There was a reaction on the paraffin test of each of the

right and left hands.

I will now hand you a sketch which was made by a participant in those

tests, which shows the distribution of the blue or violet dots which

constitute a positive reaction to this test on the left and right hands

of Lee Harvey Oswald.

Representative BOGGS. Before you do that, Mr. Cunningham, will you

describe briefly the procedure on a paraffin test? I want to understand

exactly what it is.

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. The so-called paraffin test is the making of reinforced

paraffin casts, of a person's hands, and then treating either with

either one of two reagents. One is diphenylamine, and the other is

diphenylbenzidine.

Representative BOGGS. Is that when the cast is on?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is definitely after it is removed.

Representative FORD. You actually make a cast of the individual's hand?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Oh, yes.

Representative BOGGS. You make the casts. Then you take the casts off.

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. You slit it.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you describe how the cast is made?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes. You first take warm paraffin. Each paraffin melts

at a slightly different temperature. What we were using in our tests

melts at about 130°. And this hot paraffin is placed on the hands. It

is spread on with a brush, or it can be poured over. If you are sure

that your brush is absolutely clean and will not react--and we checked

all of our equipment so that we were not getting a reaction from the

diphenylbenzidine--we let it pour on from the brush. Once you get a

coating, you can just brush it on, because then you won't be disturbing

any materials on the hands. And after you get a coat on, you take

gauze bandages and lay them on top and put more paraffin on them. The

gauze does nothing more than to give it reinforcement so it won't fall

apart or crumble when it gets real cool. Then you cut them off the

hands after they cool. Then they are chemically processed with either

diphenylamine or diphenylbenzidine.

Representative BOGGS. The cast?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes; the portion of the cast next to the hand.

Representative BOGGS. Right. I understand now.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you explain why paraffin is used? What is the action

of the paraffin?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Well, the warm paraffin has the effect of opening up

the pores of the skin and many times material that you cannot get

off from washing will be picked up in the sticky paraffin. As it is

cooling, the dirt and the foreign material on the hands will become

embedded in the paraffin.

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