Representative FORD. To the layman that seems even more----

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Demonstrative, yes. I don't know if you saw the

photographs of the cartridge cases in the rifle, the assassination

rifle. Those marks are just as distinctive as the more demonstrative

marks in this particular breech face. But to a trained examiner, they

stand out. They are harder to see than those on these particular

photographs. And even in these photographs, the photograph you were

asking me, they were not quite as vivid as they are on this photograph.

But there, again, it goes back to what I told you--each cartridge case

will strike the breech face in a slightly different way, and you don't

get complete similarity.

Mr. EISENBERG. To illustrate your point, Mr. Cunningham, I hand you

Commission Exhibit 565, which is a photograph, which was explained

yesterday, of the cartridge case fired in the rifle, and a test

cartridge.

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, this demonstrates it very well.

This is the very rough surface on the bolt of the assassination rifle.

Mr. EISENBERG. The bolt face?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes; the bolt face, and it is just as distinctive as

these striae on my photographs of the breech-face marks of the revolver.

Mr. EISENBERG. By "striae" you mean lines?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes; just lines. But it is more difficult to see, due

to the character of these marks--even though one type of mark is just

as characteristic as the other type.

Mr. EISENBERG. As I understand your testimony, to the trained observer

the photograph shown--the cartridges shown in the photographs on 565

can be as easily identified with each other as the cartridges shown on,

let's say, 598?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is correct.

Mr. EISENBERG. But to the layman it is easier to see the similarities

on 598, with its striae, than 565 with its grosser imperfections?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir; due to the type of marks on each of the

cartridge cases, one is easier for the layman to see.

The next photograph is Commission document No. 599. On the left of the

hairline is our number C-48, the cartridge case. On the right is the

test cartridge case from Oswald's revolver.

Now, here you asked about what happens--somebody asked what happens

on the other side. Here you have the other side. In this particular

cartridge case----

Mr. EISENBERG. That is the other half of the cartridge case?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir. In other words, you are seeing the primer,

the space between the primer and the brass on the cartridge case

itself--on the questioned cartridge case this time--and the base of

the cartridge case of the test is on the right. It looks like it is

one. It is just the opposite side of the cartridge case from the other

photographs.

In other words, you take the photograph of the most demonstrative

marks--which look real good, naturally. The examination is of all the

marks. That is the big difference. And this time you will see--it is

very demonstrative--on each side of the hairline, a great deal of

similarity between these marks.

Mr. EISENBERG. And the magnification here?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. It is approximately 96 times.

Mr. RHYNE. Why do you vary the magnification?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. The magnification of every photograph you take, sir,

depends on the length of the bellows of the camera. The microscope

will have a set magnification. But each time that you focus the

length of the bellows can change, which will increase or decrease the

magnification. Also with some photographs you mask off areas which are

out of focus. You certainly would not want to print a whole negative

where you have distortion. You bring into focus one small portion of

the surface of that bullet.

If, say, one surface of the bullet is slightly flattened and the other

surface is rounded--the rounded surface will be going out of focus much

faster than the flattened side, and it would be very confusing. That is

the type of thing. You mask differently.

Then when you have the negatives enlarged, you can enlarge one negative

more than you do the other. So it can be based either on the length of

the bellows, or on the amount you have enlarged it.

Mr. EISENBERG. Is that all the photographs?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. No, there is one more.

This photograph is a photograph of the firing-pin impression of the

C-49 cartridge case, and the firing-pin impression on the test from

Oswald's revolver, and this is Commission document 600.

Mr. EISENBERG. And the magnification?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. 120 times, approximately.

Now, here you have very distinctive marks, but it is much more

difficult for a layman to pick them out. That is the reason I have

circled these marks and numbered them, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, on each side

of the hairline. On the left is C-49, and on the right is the cartridge

case obtained from C-143.

You have this very large, very distinctive imperfection.

Mr. EISENBERG. You are pointing to circle number 1?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. In number 1. Also, in number 2, it looks like a little

set of railroad tracks, and this one with the same shape coming down

through. You can see this little piece and this little piece. Over here

you have a real small "railroad track."

Mr. EISENBERG. That is number 3?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is number 3. And it looks like a little hump or

bump, and that is very distinctive.

There is a slight overlapping here, but you can see it is sort of a =V=

shape--in number 4, very distinctive. Down here you have a =Z= line

with a line through it, number 6. I only brought those out to show six

of the similarities. If you go through you can pick out places in the

firing-pin impressions, that are similar, by yourself.

Mr. EISENBERG. On the top of each of these photos, C-49 and C-15, there

is a large comma-shaped indentation, or comma-shaped mark. What is that

caused by, Mr. Cunningham?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is caused by a very large imperfection--a very

distinctive imperfection in the firing pin itself. And here it is.

Here I am looking at Commission document 601, the breech face and

firing pin. If you will look at the firing pin in this photograph, you

will see over on this side, this very large imperfection. It is like

a facet--it is a flattened side. It shows up in the photograph of the

firing pin.

It is indented--since it is missing from the firing pin, it will show

as a flattened area in the firing-pin impression. In other words, what

is concave on the firing pin itself, will be convex in the firing-pin

impression.

Mr. EISENBERG. If there are no further questions on the cartridge

cases, I will move on to the bullets.

Representative FORD. Mr. Boggs?

Representative BOGGS. Just one question. What you are saying is that

there is no doubt about the fact that the cartridges that you examined

came from this revolver?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is correct.

Representative BOGGS. And, of course, there is no question about the

fact that this was Mr. Oswald's revolver. Is that so?

Mr. EISENBERG. That will be proved, I hope, before the end of the

hearings. This witness cannot himself testify.

Representative BOGGS. I understand that. I am asking you.

Mr. EISENBERG. There is no question, I don't think, about that. That

will be the subject of testimony.

Representative BOGGS. I know--we are not following the exact rules of

evidence around here.

Mr. EISENBERG. We will connect it up.

Representative BOGGS. In that connection--how many bullets were

recovered?

Mr. EISENBERG. Four were recovered from the body of the officer. But as

you will see from the testimony which we will get into right now, that

doesn't mean four shots were fired, because there is a slight problem

here. I would rather have the witness develop it.

Representative BOGGS. You are being very mysterious now, but it is all

right.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Cunningham, I hand you four bullets in plastic cases

marked C-251, C-252, Q-13, and C-253, which have also certain other

markings on them, and I ask you if you are familiar with these bullets.

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I am.

Mr. EISENBERG. Are your marks on these bullets?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, they are.

Mr. EISENBERG. For the record, I would like to state these four bullets

were recovered from the body of Officer Tippit.

When did you receive these bullets, Mr. Cunningham?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. The Q-13 bullet was delivered to the Laboratory the

first time on the morning of November 23d, and it was delivered to the

Laboratory by Special Agent Vincent Drain of the Dallas office of the

FBI.

Mr. EISENBERG. And the remaining bullets?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. By the way, it was returned to Dallas, and then it was

returned to the Laboratory, delivered again by Special Agent Vincent

Drain, of the Dallas office, also, Special Agent Warren De Brueys. They

delivered our Q-13 a second time on November 27th.

Representative FORD. When you say "our," what do you mean by "our"?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. In other words, to facilitate reporting in the

Laboratory, we usually give these items a Q or a K number. A Q number

is a questioned item, like a bullet from a body, and a known is a gun,

the K is a known, like a weapon.

That is for reporting purposes. But since this case began, we have so

much evidence, and we have received so much evidence, it was considered

practical to reassign a C number by us--like Mr. Eisenberg said, they

are C-253, C-262, and C-251. They also have a Q number. Q-13 is C-13.

That is the reason why I said "our" Q-13.

Mr. EISENBERG. When did you examine Q-13, Mr. Cunningham?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. November 23d, the first time. That was when I made my

examination. It was returned on the other date. But it was examined on

11-23.

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Q-13 has in it a brass colored object, as well as a

bullet--that is, the box containing Q-13, your Q-13.

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes. That was identified as the button--the

button--from the coat of Officer Tippit. The bullet struck that button

and when the bullet was removed from the body, the button was also

removed.

Representative BOGGS. Went right in?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir. I have no first-hand knowledge. But that is

what it was identified as.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, I would like these four bullets admitted

as 602, 603, 604, and 605.

Representative FORD. They will be admitted.

(The articles referred to were marked Commission Exhibits Nos. 602

through 605, and received in evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG. When did you receive what are now marked 603, 604, and

605, Mr. Cunningham?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. They were received in the FBI Laboratory on March 16th

of this year, and they were submitted to the Laboratory by the Dallas

office of the FBI.

Mr. EISENBERG. When were they examined?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. They were examined on March 17, 1964.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you explain the great time difference between

the receipt and examination of the first bullet and the receipt and

examination of the last three bullets?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. At your request, you asked us to postpone the

examination of these three bullets in order to facilitate other

examinations you wished more expedited than the examinations of these

bullets.

Mr. EISENBERG. Now you are explaining the time between the receipt and

the examination?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes.

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