Mr. EISENBERG. Forty-two?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Not trigger--the hammer, No. 34.
By the way, on the prior 42 I meant 34. I got the wrong number. I was
referring to the right piece, but the wrong number.
But you can see this little--it is like a curved portion. It prevents
the hammer from going any further forward. The firing pin will not come
out of the hole in the breech face.
Now, as soon as you pull the hammer back, the rebound slide, No. 30, is
out of the way.
Also, when you pull the weapon through double action, that slide pushes
back, and your sear doesn't even touch the groove in the hammer, but it
just keeps on going right on through. In other words, you are pulling
the trigger strictly against the mainspring all the way. When it is on
the notch, it is being held, and the only pressure needed, is to take
off the sear.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Mr. Cunningham, to focus this line of questioning,
Officer McDonald, who has reported that he was in a struggle with Lee
Harvey Oswald on November 22d, while Oswald was in possession of this
revolver, has stated that--I am reading now from an affidavit, from a
letter from Officer McDonald to Mr. J. E. Curry, chief of police of the
Dallas Police Force, dated December 3, 1963.
He states in this letter that as he came in contact with Oswald, "I
managed to get my right hand on the pistol over the suspect's hand. I
could feel his hand on the trigger. I then got a secure grip on the
butt of the pistol. I jerked the pistol and as it was clearing the
suspect's clothing and grip, I heard the snap of the hammer, and the
pistol crossed over my left cheek. I marked the pistol and six rounds
at central station. The primer of one round was dented on misfire at
the time of the struggle with the suspect."
Now, in light of your examination of this weapon, and your discussion,
could you comment on this statement?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I personally have fired this weapon numerous times, as
well as Special Agents Robert Frazier and Charles Killion. At no time
did we ever attempt to fire this weapon that it misfired. It operated
excellently and every time we have tried to fire it, it has fired.
It is very possible when he says that he reached across, and he grabbed
it, that he locked the cylinder, which I think any trained police
officer would do. You want to stop this cylinder from rotating. As
soon as you do that, you have actually stopped the hammer falling on a
live round, because if the hammer is allowed to go forward again, and
it hasn't gotten into the cocked position, the rebound slide, as I was
stating before, would block the firing pin from striking the primer of
the cartridge.
Mr. EISENBERG. As I understand it, the cylinder is so interconnected
with the trigger, that the trigger cannot be pulled all the way back
when the cylinder has been firmly grasped?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is correct.
Mr. EISENBERG. And if the hammer has not been pulled all the way back,
the rebound slide will not allow the firing pin to strike the cartridge?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is correct.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Officer McDonald's statement that the primer of
one round was dented on misfire: as far as you can tell, could this
statement be confirmed?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir; we found nothing to indicate that this
weapon's firing pin had struck the primer of any of these cartridges.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, if the firing pin had struck the primer, it could
only have been after the trigger was pulled all the way back, under the
discussion you have just given us, is that correct?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Or after cocking.
Mr. EISENBERG. Or after it had been cocked and pulled?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes; if it is in the cocked position, grabbing the
cylinder will do you no good; due to the fact that in the very
operation of cocking this weapon, the cylinder is rotated, and it is
ready to be fired.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, in either event, the hammer would have traveled
almost to the outermost extremity to which it can go. That is, the
hammer would have traveled back all the way, whether it was cocked or
fired in a double-action manner. If that had happened, what would the
likelihood be that upon returning to the cartridge case, it would not
fire the cartridge case--that upon returning to the cartridge, the
cartridge would not be fired?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. You mean actually the hammer had gone all the way
through its cycle?
Mr. EISENBERG. Yes.
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I can only say that from my examination internally, as
well as having fired this weapon--I found no reason why you would get a
misfire with this weapon.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, if a man had put his hand between the hammer and
the point at which the hammer enters, with the firing pin, into the
breech face, would that stop the weapon from firing?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes and no. It is very possible that you can do it. And
it hurts, by the way, because the mainspring in this one--you can see
the indentation in my thumb--is a very strong mainspring. It would be
possible. You could put something in there.
Now, the question is when you pull that object out, would there be
enough distance and enough force to set off the primer?
That is quite a moot point, because you could grab the hammer and
recock it.
Mr. EISENBERG. Apart from that question, would the man's finger or
whatever object he stuck in there be firmly fixed for a second or two,
between the hammer and the breech face?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. It could be.
Mr. EISENBERG. Would he feel the impact?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. He would definitely feel the impact--if he had a piece
of tissue of his hand in between. Now, if a piece of material, of
course, went between it which I don't know how it could happen--if you
were struggling over the gun, and he said he grabbed the gun--I don't
know how he could have anything except a portion of his hand, and I am
sure he would feel it if the trigger was pulled.
Mr. EISENBERG. Finally, if he had just grasped the cylinder, and Oswald
had pulled back on the trigger, could you demonstrate the sound which
might have been heard?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes; you can hold it, and you get a snapping sound--if
the gun is grabbed away forcefully, and he would be really grabbing
hard. So there could have been an attempt to shoot and a snap would be
heard. Yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. The only thing which is unlikely is that the primer
would be dented on the misfire?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. You would not get any denting if the cylinder was held
and the gun was jerked forcibly out of Oswald's hands. You would hear
the snap, but you would get no mark on the primer whatsoever.
The same thing he could hear if he jerked it out of his hands and he
accidentally, somehow, hit the hammer--you would still get a noise, a
snapping sound. But the firing pin would not come in contact with the
primer of the cartridge.
Representative FORD. Because of the discussion we had a few minutes ago?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Representative FORD. Using the diagram that was inserted as Exhibit 593.
Mr. EISENBERG. One final question. Officer McDonald says in this
letter, "I then got a secure grip on the butt of the pistol."
Now, would that grip in itself in any way interfere with the action of
the pistol--the revolver?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I don't know what he means by that.
Mr. EISENBERG. If he means what he says, that is, if he got a secure
grip on the butt----
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. If he got a secure grip on the butt, that would take
him away.
Mr. EISENBERG. Take him away from what?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That would take him away from the cylinder. If you are
fighting over a weapon, the first thing is to get it off of you and
then get hold of the cylinder. And then you can get both hands on the
gun to jerk it away. That is what I would do.
As I say, it is the way we are taught. You want to get the gun off of
you first, so you are not in direct line, and then go in and attempt to
get it away from the person.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, suppose the gun was pulled away from Oswald as
Oswald had his grip on the trigger, so that he could not get the
trigger through the complete cycle. Would there be a snapping noise
made?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Definitely. If you locked the cylinder and jerked it
away, you would get a snapping noise.
Mr. EISENBERG. Suppose you did not lock the cylinder, but for some
reason or other the full trigger cycle was not gone through?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Then you would also get it. It would be difficult, but
you could get it.
Mr. EISENBERG. How hard do you have to pull on that trigger in order to
fire the weapon?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. For double action--that is, without cocking, it is
approximately 11 to 12 pounds, which is normal for this type of weapon.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, I handed you earlier four cartridge cases in
a plastic envelope marked Q-74, Q-75, Q-76, and Q-77, also marked
C47-C50. Are you familiar with these cartridge cases?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I am. I have previously looked at them.
Mr. EISENBERG. Do they have your mark on them?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. They do. Right on the side of each one, right there.
Mr. EISENBERG. When did you receive these cartridge cases?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. These cartridge cases were received from the Dallas
office of the FBI on November 30, 1963.
Mr. EISENBERG. For the record, I would like to state that these
cartridge cases were found in the immediate proximity of the site at
which Officer Tippit was killed. They were found on the ground near the
street where Officer Tippit was killed on November 22.
Representative FORD. These are the ones that were found in the street
near the automobile?
Mr. EISENBERG. Well, either in the street or in a lawn in front of a
private residence, or semiapartment house.
Representative FORD. I see. In other words, they were possibly some of
those that were on the lawn in the front of 400?
Mr. EISENBERG. Yes, sir; again, for the record only, since this witness
is unable to testify as to where they were picked up. The mechanism of
this revolver is such that the shells are not ejected until the user
decides to eject them--unlike a bolt-action rifle where the cartridge
must be ejected where you shoot from.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to have these four cartridge cases
introduced into evidence as 594.
Representative FORD. They may be admitted.
(The articles referred to were marked Commission Exhibit No. 594, and
received in evidence.)
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Mr. Cunningham, could you describe the make of
these cartridge cases?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Two of these cartridge cases are Remington-Peters .38
Special cartridge cases. The other two cartridge cases are Western .38
Special cartridge cases.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, you examined earlier six bullets which I told you
had been--six cartridges which I told you had been taken from the
chamber of the revolver which we have been looking at.
Those cartridges were divided into three Remington-Peters and three
Western, were they not?
(At this point, Representative Boggs entered the hearing room.)
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. So that--or 50-50. So that the division is the
same, the division of the cartridge cases is the same, as between
Remington-Peters and Western, as the division of the cartridges
found--which I told you were found in the chamber?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. Did you examine the cartridge cases in Exhibit 594 in an
attempt to determine whether they had been fired in Exhibit 143, the
revolver, to the exclusion of all other revolvers?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I did.
Mr. EISENBERG. Can you tell us your conclusion?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. As a result of my examination, it is my opinion that
those four cartridge cases, Commission Exhibit 594, were fired in the
revolver, Commission Exhibit 143, to the exclusion of all other weapons.
Mr. EISENBERG. When did you perform this examination, Mr. Cunningham?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. On November 30, 1963.
Mr. EISENBERG. And how did you make the examination?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I first marked these cartridge cases upon receiving
them. There were four. I would like to state, first of all that
Special Agents Frazier and Killion also independently examined these
four cartridge cases, and made the same comparisons that I am going
to state. I am telling you what I found--although they independently
arrived at the same conclusion.
The cartridge cases were first marked and examined for the presence of
any individual characteristic marks on these cartridge cases whereby it
would be possible to identify them as having been fired in a weapon. I
then test-fired Commission Exhibit 143, using similar ammunition, and
microscopically compared the four cartridge case--one at a time--that
is Commission Exhibit 594--with the tests obtained from the revolver,
Commission Exhibit 143.
Mr. EISENBERG. I hand you here two cartridge cases, and ask you whether
you are familiar with these cartridge cases?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I am.
Mr. EISENBERG. And can you describe these cartridge cases to us?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes. One is a Western .38 Special cartridge case. The
other is a Winchester .38 Special cartridge case.
Mr. EISENBERG. And how did you get possession of these cartridge cases?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. These were test-fired in Commission Exhibit No. 143, by
myself.
Mr. EISENBERG. So these are the test cartridges you were referring to?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That was a portion of them; yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, may I have these admitted as Commission
Exhibit 595?
Representative FORD. They will be admitted.
(The articles referred to were marked Commission Exhibit No. 595, and
received in evidence.)
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I also would like to state that we were test firing
Remington-Peters, also.
Mr. EISENBERG. How many test cartridges were fired, Mr. Cunningham?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. To begin with, three. And we have since fired the
weapon many times.
Representative BOGGS. How many cartridges were fired by Oswald?
Mr. EISENBERG. We are going to get into that. This is a difficult
question which you are going to have to make a decision on. So I would
rather develop that slowly.
I notice that one of the cartridge cases in Exhibit 595 is split on the
side, Mr. Cunningham.
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. Why is that?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is due to the oversized chambers of this revolver.
As I previously testified, the weapon was originally chambered for the
.38 S&W, which is a wider cartridge than .38 Special. And when a .38
Special is fired in this particular weapon, the case form fits to the
shape of each chamber. And in one of those cartridges, the metal just
let go. Normally it does not; however this one particular case split
slightly.
Representative FORD. Does that have any impact on the rest of the
operation?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir. As a matter of fact, I test-fired the weapon
originally, and I didn't even know it had split until I tried to eject
it.
Mr. EISENBERG. You mentioned before, by the way, that there had been no
misfires with this weapon. Approximately how many times was the weapon
fired altogether?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I would have no way of knowing exactly, but I imagine
we are approaching close to a hundred times by now.
Mr. EISENBERG. And no misfires?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. And no misfires.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Mr. Cunningham, did you take photographs of the
cartridge cases which you have just identified as having been fired
from 143, and the cartridge cases which are Commission Exhibit No. 595?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I did.
Mr. EISENBERG. Did you make your identification on the basis of the
photographs or on the basis of your examination under the microscope?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. My conclusions were arrived at strictly on the basis
of my examinations. These photographs in no way entered into the
identification and are strictly for demonstrative purposes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Could you show us these photographs, Mr. Cunningham?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. Let's take them one at a time, and let's introduce
them as exhibits, one at a time. I have here--you have given me five
photographs. Did you take each of these photographs?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. As a matter of fact; I did. I personally took these.
Mr. EISENBERG. And these are photographs of what?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. They are photographs of the individual characteristic
marks on the base and in the firing-pin impression on test cartridge
cases obtained from Oswald's revolver, and also the marks on the base
and in the firing-pin impression on the cartridge cases, Commission
Exhibit No. 594.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, I would like these admitted, if you would,
as 596, 597, 598, 599, and 600.
Representative FORD. They may be admitted.
(The documents referred to were marked Commission Exhibits Nos. 596
through 600, and received in evidence.)
Representative FORD. Will the witness explain to the Commission what
they mean?
Mr. EISENBERG. Yes; he will. Did you also make a photograph of the
breech face of the weapon, Mr. Cunningham?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I did. I didn't take this photograph. I was present
when it was taken. I have compared the negative with the actual breech
face of Commission Exhibit 143, and I found it to be a true and
accurate reproduction.
Mr. EISENBERG. Could you show us that photograph? May I have that
admitted as 601, Mr. Chairman?
Representative FORD. It may be admitted.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 601, and
received in evidence.)
Mr. EISENBERG. Could you show us the area of the revolver which
corresponds to the area shown in the photograph, Exhibit 601?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir. The cylinder was first removed to facilitate
the photograph. That is very easily done by removing the forward
sideplate screw, which is just above the trigger, which allows the
crane to slide right out, and the cylinder removed.
The photograph was taken from the right side, looking in toward the
firing-pin hole.
Representative BOGGS. Just the way you are holding the revolver now?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir; just the way I am holding it now.
Representative BOGGS. With the cylinder removed?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. With the cylinder removed.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, there is a cylindrical-shaped object in the center
of that picture, Mr. Cunningham. Could you describe what that is--right
in the center of the picture?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is known by two different names. It is known as a
hammer-nose bushing, or a recoil block. It is--Smith and Wesson presses
this particular block in. It forms the hole through which the firing
pin comes out of the breech face.
Mr. EISENBERG. That is, the firing pin strikes the center of the
cartridge, or the primer, as it is called?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Which causes the cartridge to fire. Now, what is the
magnification of the photograph of the breech face?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Of the breech face, it is approximately 17 times.
Mr. EISENBERG. There are a number of markings or lines on this breech
face. Are these the microscopic characteristics which reproduce on the
cartridge cases?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is correct.
Mr. EISENBERG. And are the microscopic characteristics of this breech
face individual to this weapon, to the exclusion of all other weapons?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. They are.
Mr. EISENBERG. This is your method of determining that a given
cartridge case has been fired from a given weapon?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. The breech face marks, as well as the individual
imperfections in the firing pin.
Representative BOGGS. Let me ask a very elementary question, the answer
to which I used to know years ago, but I have forgotten. Just exactly
what does the firing pin do? What happens after that strikes?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Well, it is easier to start with the cartridge itself.
The components of a cartridge are a bullet, a cartridge case, a primer
in the base of the cartridge case, and powder.
Now, the primer is made out of a very soft metal that can be dented.
These primers at manufacture are filled with, basically, an explosive.
For instance, Remington-Peters cartridges have PETN, which is one of
Du Pont's explosives. RDX is used as one of the components of Western
cartridge cases, as well as lead styphnate, lead azides, and other
explosive materials.
When the firing pin strikes, there is a small explosion. Fire is given
off----
Representative BOGGS. How does that bring about the explosion?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. It is sensitive to detonation by a sharp blow.
Mr. EISENBERG. That is, the primer is sensitive?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes; it is an explosive. To differentiate from the
powder, which is not explosive. Powder burns.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, I have taken Commission Exhibit No. 591, which
consists of an unfired cartridge, and there is a round circle in the
middle of the base of that cartridge. Is that the primer?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes. That is actually a separate entity that has been
pressed into a hole in the base of the cartridge case.
Mr. EISENBERG. And that is more sensitive to shock than the powder in
the cartridge case itself?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes. Powder is relatively insensitive. You don't set
off powder by a blow.
Mr. EISENBERG. But the primer is quite sensitive?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is normally. I am talking about a normal blow.
The primer is very sensitive. I just named a few of the components,
but there are many other compounds in priming mixtures, which are
considered secret by each company. But I know that they are explosive
mixtures. And the actual striking of the firing pin--with enough
force--causes a small detonation to occur. The fire given off, goes
through holes in the base, and into where the powder is, and starts the
powder burning. It is the gases that are given off when powder burns,
which actually cause the bullet to move forward--the pressure builds up
behind it, and the bullet goes forward.
Representative BOGGS. That is a very good explanation. Thank you.
Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Cunningham, I wonder whether you could review the
pictures with us, and discuss some of the markings which you found in
those pictures that led you to decide that the cartridge cases shown
therein have been fired in the revolver we have been discussing.
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes. The first photograph is a photograph of the
breech-face marks, the individual characteristic marks remaining on
test cartridge cases obtained from the revolver, and on the C-50
cartridge case that was recovered from the scene. C-50 is on the left.
C-15 is on the right. And the hairline, the magnified hairline down the
center separates the two cartridge cases.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, is the invariable procedure to put the test
cartridge on the right and the suspect cartridge on the left? Or at
least is that your standard procedure?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I usually put the suspect on the left.
Mr. EISENBERG. Well, in the photographs at any rate, in all the
photographs we are going to see, the test cartridge is on the right,
and the suspect cartridge is on the left?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Usually.
Mr. EISENBERG. And what is the magnification of this photograph?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. It is approximately 91 times.
Mr. EISENBERG. Could you go on, please?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes. On the left you will see the stamping, "SP", which
is in the cartridge case itself. And over here next to the hairline you
will see the individual characteristic marks. And you will see similar
marks continuing on the other side of the hairline.
On the C-15, the revolver side, you will see a dark portion running
vertically down through. That is the space that the Congressman was
asking about--how it fits the primer. That is the small space at the
top where the primer fits into the base of the cartridge. And over here
to the right of that dark mark you will see a lighter colored object
with more individual characteristic marks, that is actually the primer,
the individual characteristic marks on the primer of the test cartridge
case.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, as I understand it, in effect this picture can
be viewed as a composite cartridge? That is, the picture on the left
begins where the picture on the right ends, in terms of position on the
cartridge case?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. In essence; yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. And the point of the picture is to show that when you
make this composite, the lines on each case show up as if there were no
composite at all, but as if they were simply one case, because they are
so close together in microscopic markings?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes; in proximity. And they are brought together.
Representative BOGGS. And so similar?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes.
Representative BOGGS. What is the magnification again?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is approximately 91 times.
Mr. EISENBERG. Are there any dissimilarities on the two--on the test
and the suspect cartridge cases, Mr. Cunningham?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir; there are always dissimilarities. However,
the similarities so outweigh the dissimilarities that it is an
identification. If there are no dissimilarities, I would be suspicious
that it would be faked--using the same photograph and just cut and put
together.
There are always dissimilarities.
Mr. EISENBERG. Can you explain why there are always dissimilarities
when the two cartridge cases are fired in the very same weapon?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. The metal is different; one cartridge case is slightly
harder than another; for some reason the cartridge case wasn't driven
back, upon firing, into the breech face exactly the same way. In other
words, these marks are reproducing, but you don't get exactly the same
hit. It would not be possible to get exactly the same hit time after
time with different cartridge cases.
Representative FORD. What ratio of similarities and dissimilarities do
you have to have?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. There is no ratio. Based upon the examiner's training
and experience, he comes to the conclusion that a particular cartridge
case or bullet has been fired from a particular weapon. As in this
photograph, you can see the dissimilarity is very slight. These are
excellent marks.
Representative FORD. There was never any doubt in your mind, then?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. None whatsoever.
Mr. EISENBERG. You say these are particularly strong marks?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. These are very, very, good marks.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, these marks are on the brass, so to speak, of the
cartridge case, rather than in the primer?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes; that is correct. Actually, it is brass, it is
nickelplated brass.
Mr. EISENBERG. Is that unusual, to be able to pick up such strong marks
in the brass as opposed to the primer of the cartridge case?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. It is not really unusual; no. It depends upon the
particular weapon.
Mr. EISENBERG. Did you also examine the microscopic markings on the
primer?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I did.
Mr. EISENBERG. And you found what?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I could identify the weapon on the basis of the
imperfections, individual characteristic marks, in the firing-pin
impression.
Mr. EISENBERG. The firing-pin impression. And what about the area of
the primer around the firing-pin impression?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. In other words, each of these three areas--the brass,
the primer, and the firing-pin impression--carries individually
characteristic microscopic marks which would be the basis of
identification?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, you cannot make a flat statement.
Mr. EISENBERG. No; in this case.
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. In this particular case, I knew at the time I was
examining it, all of the firing-pin impressions were excellent, and
some portions of the breech-face marks were. But you cannot say they
will mark in exactly the same place, due to the fact that these cases
will mark in different areas, they are different cartridges, they have
been fired at a different time. You will get good areas, and then in
another area your marks will not be sufficient. In other words, it is
just the way the cartridge case was driven back at the time of the
explosion in the primer, and the bullet is fired.
They can hit slightly different, hit deeper on one side, be lighter
on the other. When a primer is set in a little bit deeper, it will
not pick up these marks on the primer part, whereas the firing-pin
impression can be excellent--one portion of the case will be excellent.
But each one is a different examination. And many times they will mark
in different places.
Mr. EISENBERG. Could you show us the next photograph?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir. This is Commission document No. 597. This is
a photograph, photomicrograph, rather, of the breech face marks on two
cartridge cases. The one on the left is C-49, which is our number C-49,
and the one on the right of the hairline is a test cartridge case from
this revolver.
Mr. EISENBERG. What is the magnification?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. This one was approximately 120 times.
Mr. EISENBERG. Is the magnification equal on both sides?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. It is.
Mr. EISENBERG. Is that true of all the pictures you are showing us
today?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir. The negative is taken at exactly the same
time. You are photographing through a single eyepiece, with a focusable
hairline down the middle, whatever is on both stages of your comparison
microscope.
Mr. EISENBERG. Could you turn that picture around again?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. These marking are also on the brass, or outside of the
primer?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is correct.
Mr. EISENBERG. And again it is a sort of a composite photograph?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is correct.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, these markings seem a little less distinct than the
others.
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. It is in a different area. On this particular case, the
marks are excellent. You can see down in here some nice fine marks, and
then the heavier marks coming across there. They are good marks.
Representative FORD. Could you point out, as you look at the
photograph, what you consider good similarities, which would help you
in the identification?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir. Now, this is not the only point of
similarity. These strictly demonstrate the type of marks. There are
many more marks on these cartridge cases, all over the base of the
cartridge cases, as well as in the firing-pin impressions. But Mr.
Eisenberg asked that we have a photograph to demonstrate the type of
marks on each particular cartridge case.
Representative FORD. This is only illustrative, then?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is correct. My identification was not based on
this picture. It was based on my complete microscopic examination
and comparison of test cartridge cases from the revolver with this
particular cartridge case.
Representative FORD. Could you show me the similarities?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes. You see, you have your large--it is slightly out
of focus up towards this end----
Mr. EISENBERG. Excuse me, as you demonstrate this, could you mark with
circles and with a number what you are talking about, so when the
record is looked at it is clear what you are talking about?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. All right--up here, near the top, you will find a very
deep ridge, which I will mark "1." As you are coming down, you will
find another real deep ridge, which I will mark "2."
When you consider this is 120 times, this is actually quite close
together, except it has been magnified--you have a set of marks
resembling "railroad tracks," which I will mark "3."
You will find over here--you go down to your next step. There are
similarities in between there. The next big set of "railroad tracks" I
will mark "4."
Then you move down, and you will find another similarity, four nice
marks down near the bottom. This whole area is similar. You are going
out of focus, but you can see these "railroad tracks." They are running
along very nicely, and that is being marked "No. 5."