Mr. EISENBERG. Our next witness will be Mr. Simmons.
Mr. McCLOY. Would you hold up your right hand?
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give in this hearing
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God?
Mr. SIMMONS. I do.
Mr. McCLOY. Please be seated.
This, as you know--the constitution of the Commission and its
purpose--we want to ask you something about the firearm aspect of our
hearings, and certain characteristics of this rifle that we would like
to hear from you about, and if there is anything else you have that can
throw light on our problems.
If you can state for the record, first, your name, and where you live.
Mr. SIMMONS. My name is Ronald Simmons. I live near Havre de Grace, Md.
Mr. McCLOY. Mr. Eisenberg?
Mr. EISENBERG. Can you give us your position, Mr. Simmons?
Mr. SIMMONS. I am the Chief of the Infantry Weapons Evaluation Branch
of the Ballistics Research Laboratory of the Department of the Army.
Mr. EISENBERG. And how long have you held this position?
Mr. SIMMONS. This position, about four years, and previous employment
has been in these laboratories.
Mr. EISENBERG. How long have you been working, Mr. Simmons, in the area
of evaluation of weapons?
Mr. SIMMONS. Since 1951, in various classes of weapons.
Since 1957, however, I have had the responsibility for the laboratories
on small arms.
Mr. EISENBERG. Has part of it--of these--have part of these evaluations
been conducted with military rifles, Mr. Simmons?
Mr. SIMMONS. Most of our evaluations have been associated with military
rifles.
Mr. EISENBERG. How long altogether have you spent in this area?
Mr. SIMMONS. In the area of rifles?
Mr. EISENBERG. Yes.
Mr. SIMMONS. Some experience beginning from about 1953. I have been
continuously concerned with this since 1957.
Mr. EISENBERG. Can you give a rough estimate of how many weapons you
have evaluated as to accuracy?
Mr. SIMMONS. No. We have been concerned with almost all of the
weapons which the Army has tested, either in preliminary stages or as
developmental weapons.
Mr. EISENBERG. But your specialty is the evaluation of weapons systems,
including military rifles, and you have been engaged in this for 13
years, as to all weapons systems, and since 1953 as to----
Mr. SIMMONS. Yes, that is correct.
Mr. McCLOY. In the course of that you have examined hundreds of rifles,
though, have you not?
Mr. SIMMONS. Well, our examination of rifles is not the detailed
engineering, design experiment which a gunsmith or a rifle expert
as such would concern himself with. We are more concerned with
establishing a framework by which we can put numbers to the performance
of military rifles in tactical employment. And this means that for a
specific--specific classes of weapons, we have had to establish, for
example, round-to-round dispersion, the accuracy with which they can be
employed, and the wounding power of the projectiles.
Mr. McCLOY. In the course of this you have fired a great many rifles
yourself?
Mr. SIMMONS. No, sir; I don't fire them.
Mr. McCLOY. Somebody else fires them?
Mr. SIMMONS. Yes.
Mr. McCLOY. But you make the studies in relation to the accuracy of the
weapons?
Mr. SIMMONS. Yes, that is correct. The firing is accomplished by
employees of the development and proof services, which is the weapons
testing facility at the Aberdeen Proving Ground.