Mr. MOONEY. From that angle.
Mr. BALL. Does that show any place where you saw the chicken bone?
Mr. MOONEY. If I recall correctly, the chicken bone could have been
laying on this box or it might have been laying on this box right here.
Mr. BALL. Make a couple of marks there to indicate where possibly the
chicken bone was lying.
Mr. MOONEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Make two "X's". You think there was a chicken bone on the top
of either one of those two?
Mr. MOONEY. There was one of them partially eaten. And there was a
little small paper poke.
Mr. BALL. By poke, you mean a paper sack?
Mr. MOONEY. Right.
Mr. BALL. Where was that?
Mr. MOONEY. Saw the chicken bone was laying here. The poke was laying
about a foot away from it.
Mr. BALL. On the same carton?
Mr. MOONEY. Yes, sir. In close relation to each other. But as to what
was in the sack--it was kind of together, and I didn't open it. I
didn't put my hands on it to open it. I only saw one piece of chicken.
Senator COOPER. How far was the chicken, the piece of chicken you saw,
and the paper bag from the boxes near the window, and particularly the
box that had the crease in it?
Mr. MOONEY. I would say they might have been 5 feet or something like
that. He wouldn't have had to leave the location. He could just maybe
take one step and lay it over there, if he was the one that put it
there.
Senator COOPER. You mean if someone had been standing near the box with
the crease in it?
Mr. MOONEY. Yes, sir.
Senator COOPER. It would have been that approximate distance to the
chicken leg and paper bag?
Mr. MOONEY. Sir?
Senator COOPER. And the paper bag you spoke of?
Mr. MOONEY. Yes, sir; they were in close relation to each other, yes,
sir.
Mr. BALL. How big a bag was it?
Mr. MOONEY. Well, as to the number--these bags are numbered, I
understand. But it was--I don't know what the number you would call it,
but it didn't stand more than that high.
Mr. BALL. About 12 inches?
Mr. MOONEY. About 8 to 10 inches, at the most.
Mr. BALL. What color was the bag?
Mr. MOONEY. It was brown. Just a regular paper bag. Just as a grocery
store uses for their produce and what-have-you.
Mr. BALL. Did you see any soda pop?
Mr. MOONEY. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. BALL. Did you see a paper bag at any other window?
Mr. MOONEY. No, sir; I didn't.
Mr. BALL. Any other chicken bones?
Mr. MOONEY. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you see a Dr. Pepper bottle any place?
Mr. MOONEY. No, sir; except in the picture.
Mr. BALL. You didn't see it?
Mr. MOONEY. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. When you say you have seen the picture, I will show you the
picture, and let me see if that is the one you mean you have seen. That
is Commission 484. This picture has been shown to you, hasn't it?
Mr. MOONEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. I showed you that.
Mr. MOONEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And you did not see that two-wheel truck?
Mr. MOONEY. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. You did not see the Dr. Pepper bottle?
Mr. MOONEY. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. You didn't see a paper sack anywhere near a two-wheel truck
or a Dr. Pepper bottle?
Mr. MOONEY. No, sir; in my running around up there, I didn't observe
it. Possibly it was there. I am sure it was. But I didn't check it.
Mr. BALL. How long did you stay there?
Mr. MOONEY. Sir?
Mr. BALL. How long did you stay up on the sixth floor? After you found
the location of the three cartridges?
Mr. MOONEY. Well, I stayed up there not over 15 or 20 minutes
longer--after Captain Will Fritz and his officers came over there,
Captain Fritz picked up the cartridges, began to examine them, of
course I left that particular area. By that time there was a number of
officers up there. The floor was covered with officers, And we were
searching, trying to find the weapon at that time.
Mr. BALL. Were you there when it was found?
Mr. MOONEY. Yes, sir. I was searching under these books and between
them and up on the ledges and the joists, we was just looking
everywhere. And I was about 10 or 15 steps at the most from Officer
Boone when he hollered, "Here is the gun."
Mr. BALL. Did you go over there?
Mr. MOONEY. I stepped over there.
Mr. BALL. What did you see?
Mr. MOONEY. I had to look twice before I actually saw the gun laying
in there. I had to get around to the right angle before I could see
it. And there the gun lay, stuck between these cartons in an upright
position. The scope was up.
Mr. BALL. Well, now, I will show you a picture, 514.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 514, for
identification.)
Senator COOPER. May I ask--did you change the position of the shells
which you have identified?
Mr. MOONEY. No, sir; I didn't have my hands on them.
Senator COOPER. Or the bag, or chicken leg?
Mr. MOONEY. No, sir.
Senator COOPER. Until--before the chief came?
Mr. MOONEY. Captain Will Fritz; yes, sir; he is the chief.
Senator COOPER. Was there any odor in the area when you first got there?
Mr. MOONEY. I didn't particularly notice any. Now, there could have
been a slight powder odor there.
(At this point, Mr. Warren entered the hearing room.)
Senator COOPER. Did you smell any powder?
Mr. MOONEY. No, sir; not to my knowledge. Of course it was musty odor,
with all those cartons and books there.
Mr. BALL. Do you see the picture which is 514? Does it look like
anything like that?
Mr. MOONEY. Yes, sir; with the exception there was more cartons around
it than that. In other words, the way it looked to me, when I walked
over there--of course these may have been disturbed at a later date.
Mr. BALL. It looks like there are more cartons?
Mr. MOONEY. No; there is less cartons around it right now. Of course
that is looking straight down. Now, there are some more boxes here.
Mr. BALL. I show you a picture which we will mark as 515.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 515 for
identification.)
Mr. MOONEY. But that is in the position the gun was laying.
Mr. BALL. That is about the position of the gun?
Mr. MOONEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Now, here is a picture of that marked stairway. Can you
orient yourself from that picture?
Mr. MOONEY. Let's see. Here is the staircase right in here. If I
remember right, the gun was either in this crack or this one here. I
don't remember which.
Mr. BALL. Does that show you about the number of cartons around?
Mr. MOONEY. Yes, sir; that is the way it looked; sure did. Because I
had to stand up back here, before I could see over off in there.
Mr. BALL. And when you did look down there between the cartons, was the
gun----
Mr. MOONEY. It was sitting in that position. The scope was up.
Mr. BALL. As shown in 514?
Mr. MOONEY. Yes, sir. That is the way it was laying, in that position.
Senator COOPER. It was lying on the floor?
Mr. MOONEY. Yes, sir.
Senator COOPER. With the scope on the upper side?
Mr. MOONEY. The scope in upright position. The stock was back to the
east. In other words, the gun was pointed west.
Mr. BALL. Did a photographer come up and take pictures when you were
there?
Mr. MOONEY. There was a number of photographers up there shooting
pictures. Who they were or who they represented--I assume it was the
press.
Mr. BALL. How long were they there?
Mr. MOONEY. They were there when all these officers and everybody was
up there.
Mr. BALL. I have no further questions.
Senator COOPER. How far was it from the place where the gun was found,
from where you first saw the rifle, to the window?
Mr. MOONEY. You mean how far was it from the gun to the window?
Senator COOPER. Yes; where you saw the shells.
Mr. MOONEY. Well, it was clear across the entire sixth floor,
thereabouts. In other words, if you take the location from where the
shells were found, they were in the southeast corner. And this was in
the far northwest corner. Just right there at the staircase.
And the distance across there, I just don't know how far it is, but it
is quite a large warehouse floor.
Mr. BALL. I have no further questions. I would like to offer the
exhibits up to 515, inclusive. May this witness be excused?
The CHAIRMAN. Any questions, Senator Cooper?
Senator COOPER. As you examined these exhibits, you gave your best
judgment, your recollection of the location of the boxes and the shells.