Mrs. PAINE. Number taken down.
Mr. JENNER. You did not take the number down and place it on that piece
of paper?
Mrs. PAINE. I did not.
Mr. JENNER. Or give it to Lee Harvey Oswald or to Marina?
Mrs. PAINE. I did not. I was never at any time interested in the
license plate number. I wondered why anyone else would have been.
Mr. JENNER. In any event, the first you heard of the license number was
after the assassination?
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. Under the circumstances you have now related?
Mrs. PAINE. I might describe the second meeting with Mr. Hosty a little
more in detail.
Mr. JENNER. That is November 1?
Mrs. PAINE. That is the only way I can guess as to how this license
plate number was in Oswald's room.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mrs. PAINE. Hosty and I, and a second agent was with him, I don't know
the name, stood at the door of my home and talked briefly, as I have
already described, about the address of Oswald in Dallas. Marina was
in her room feeding the baby, or busy some way. She came in just as
Hosty and I were closing the conversation, and I must say we were both
surprised at her entering. He then took his leave immediately, and as
he has told me later, drove to the end of my street which curves and
then drove back down Fifth Street.
Mr. JENNER. Now you are reporting something agent Hosty has told you?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Were you aware of the fact that he drove to the end of the
street?
Mrs. PAINE. Not at that time, no. I was aware that he had parked his
car out in front of my house. My best judgment is that the license
plate was not visible, however, while it was parked; not visible from
my house.
Mr. JENNER. Did you see the car?
Mrs. PAINE. I saw the car.
Mr. JENNER. Parked?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes. I noticed it particularly. Because the first time he
had come on the 1st of November, he had parked down the street, and
he made reference to the fact that they don't like to draw attention
for the neighborhood to any interviews that they make, and in fact
my neighbor also commented when she had talked with him a few days
previously that his car was parked down the street and wasn't in front
of my house. So I noticed the change that he had parked directly in
front. But to the best of my recollection, in back of the Oldsmobile of
my husband's.
Mr. JENNER. Did you attempt to look to see what his license number was?
Mrs. PAINE. What?
Mr. JENNER. Did you attempt to look at his automobile to see what the
license number was?
Mrs. PAINE. No; nor could I have seen it from my house without my
glasses on. I am nearsighted, and I was not wearing them.
Mr. JENNER. But the license plate would have been visible to anybody
walking down the street or who desired?
Mrs. PAINE. Walking down the street, yes.
Mr. JENNER. Or looking out your garage.
Mrs. PAINE. I don't think so, because to the best of my recollection,
an Oldsmobile that my husband bought was also in front of the house, so
that the cars would have been close at the bumpers.
Mr. JENNER. So the license plates would have been screened by the
Oldsmobile?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Have you given us all you have in mind with respect to the
incidents?
Mrs. PAINE. There is one other thing which is a little different, and I
had forgotten it but it is recalled by our conversation. I have already
said that I said to Agent Hosty that if in the future Marina and Lee
are living together, and I know, or I have correspondence with them I
would give him his address if he wished it. Then it was the next day or
that evening or sometime shortly thereafter Marina said to me while we
were doing dishes that she felt their address was their business. Now
my understanding is she doesn't understand English well. The word in
Russian for address is "adres," and she made it plain that this was a
matter of privacy for them. This surprised me. She had never spoken in
this way to me before, and I didn't see that it made any difference.
Mr. JENNER. Did this arise out of, or in connection with, or was it
stimulated, by any discussion between the two of you of the visit of
Agent Hosty?
Mrs. PAINE. So far as I could see, it arose separately.
Mr. JENNER. So far as you can recall?
Mrs. PAINE. As far as I can recall.
Mr. JENNER. Did you make any effort to obtain Lee Oswald's address so
that you could give it to the FBI?
Mrs. PAINE. No. As I have testified, I really thought they had it.
Mr. JENNER. When you made the telephone call to Lee Oswald and learned
he apparently was living under an alias, and certainly in that weekend
immediately preceding the assassination when the argument occurred
between Marina and Lee Oswald on which he upbraided her for having made
the call, you still weren't activated to call the FBI and tell them
that he was living under an assumed name, is that true?
Mrs. PAINE. That is true. I did expect to give this copy which I had
made of his "Dear Sirs," letter which you have marked Commission
Exhibit 103 to the FBI agent at the next meeting.
Mr. JENNER. At the time he called if he did call?
Mrs. PAINE. I thought he would.
Mr. JENNER. During the interview on November 1, you have testified that
Marina was present some of the time.
Mrs. PAINE. She was present virtually all of that time.
Mr. JENNER. All of the time?
Mrs. PAINE. And virtually none of the next time.
Mr. JENNER. Virtually none.
Mrs. PAINE. Just came in at the end, on the 5th.
Mr. JENNER. Was she out in the yard? Did you get that impression any
time during that second interview?
Mrs. PAINE. No; she had to have been in her room the entire time.
Mr. JENNER. Are you firm, reasonably firm that Marina, even if she
desired to learn of the license number on Agent Hosty's car, that she
could not have seen or detected it while remaining in the house?
Mrs. PAINE. She might possibly--oh, I wouldn't say that. It is
conceivable, depending on where it was parked, it is conceivable that
she could have seen it from the bedroom window.
Mr. JENNER. You are holding up exhibit number?
Mrs. PAINE. 430.
Mr. JENNER. And you are pointing to what on that exhibit?
Mrs. PAINE. The window of the bedroom which she occupied, which is the
southeast bedroom of my house, looks directly out to where I thought
the car was parked. From that position, if I am correct about where the
car was parked, she couldn't have seen the license plate, but she could
have seen it if as Agent Hosty described to me later she saw it while
the car was moving along the street.
Mr. JENNER. When he pulled away?
Mrs. PAINE. When he pulled away and then he came back and went the
other way.
Mr. JENNER. So it is possible that she may have seen the license?
Mrs. PAINE. It is possible.
Mr. JENNER. This date that you are now talking about when he parked the
car in front of your house, that was November 5?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes, it was.
Mr. JENNER. Whereas on November 1, he parked the car down the street.
Mrs. PAINE. That is right. I might add a little more detail here if you
want it. Marina and I talked about whether to tell Lee that the FBI
had been out a second time, and the 5th was a Tuesday. We didn't see
Lee until the 8th. She said to me that he had been upset by the FBI's
coming out and inquiring about him, and he felt it was interference
with his family. And I said there is no reason for him to be upset, or
I think conveyed that idea. But the question of whether to tell him was
settled by Marina who told him on Friday evening, the 8th, and then
Lee inquired of me about that meeting, and he said--I don't think I
have yet said for the record--he said to me then he felt the FBI was
inhibiting his activities. This is what he said. Has this been said?
Mr. JENNER. Not yet.
Mrs. PAINE. All right, I have said it. I said to him "Don't be worried
about it. You have your rights to your views, whether they are popular
or not." But I could see that he didn't take that view but rather was
seriously bothered by their having come out and inquired about him. At
this time or another, I don't recall certainly, I asked whether he was
worried about losing his job, and he was.
Mr. JENNER. Did he say so, Mrs. Paine?
Mrs. PAINE. I recall particularly a telephone conversation with him.
On one of those in which he called out to talk to Marina, I judge,
and perhaps she was busy still changing a baby and I talked. I don't
recall the exact circumstances but I do recall it, and I said to him
if his views, not any references now to the FBI or their interest in
him, but if his political views were interfering with his ability to
hold a job, that this might be a matter of interest to the American
Civil Liberties Union, that he should in our country have a right to
unpopular views or any other kind.
This I believe was after he had been to an American Civil Liberties
Union meeting with my husband, that meeting having been October 25.
Mr. JENNER. What was his response?
Mrs. PAINE. He was pleased, I felt. He felt in a sense reassured. And
indeed I think his response was to join, because it was later reported
in the press that he had, which makes me think that this telephone
conversation was quite close to the time of the assassination.