Senator COOPER. Why don't you just go ahead and tell it as you remember
it, everything that he said and you said?
Mrs. PAINE. I can't give the specific words to this part but I carry a
clear impression, too, that he sounded to me almost as if nothing out
of the ordinary had happened.
I would make this telephone call for him, would help him, as I had in
other ways previously. He was, he expressed gratitude to me. I felt,
but did not express, considerable irritation at his seeming to be so
apart from the situation, so presuming of his own innocence, if you
will, but I did say I would make the call for him.
Then he called back almost immediately. I gather that he had made the
call to me on the permission to make a different call and then he got
specific permission from the police to make a call to me and the call
was identical.
Mr. JENNER. This is speculation?
Mrs. PAINE. This is speculation but the content of the second call was
almost identical.
Mr. JENNER. The phone rang?
Mrs. PAINE. He asked me to contact John Abt.
Mr. JENNER. He identified himself and he asked you to make the call?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. What did he say?
Mrs. PAINE. He wanted me to call this lawyer.
Mr. JENNER. Did you express any surprise for him to call back almost
immediately giving you the same message that he had given previously?
Mrs. PAINE. I think somebody must have said, that the officers had said
he could call, make this call.
Mr. JENNER. Did you say anything about the fact that he had already
just called you about the same subject matter?
Mrs. PAINE. He may have added.
Mr. JENNER. Did you, please?
Mrs. PAINE. No. I was quite stunned that he called at all or that he
thought he could ask anything of me, appalled, really.
Mr. McCLOY. Did he say he was innocent, or did he just have this
conversation with respect to the retention of a counsel?
Mrs. PAINE. That is all.
Mr. JENNER. At no time during either of those conversations did he deny
that he was in any way involved in this situation?
Mrs. PAINE. He made no reference to why he was at the police station or
why he needed a lawyer.
Mr. JENNER. He just assumed that you knew he was at the police station,
did he?
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. That was your impression?
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. He didn't say where he was?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. He just started out saying what you now say he said?
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. But in no respect did he say to you that he was entirely
innocent of any charges that had been made against him?
Mrs. PAINE. He did not say that.
Mr. JENNER. Did he mention the subject at all of the assassination of
the President or the slaying of Officer Tippit?
Mrs. PAINE. No; he did not.
Mr. JENNER. What you have given is your best recollection of the entire
conversation?
Mrs. PAINE. That is correct.
Representative FORD. This was Saturday afternoon, November 23?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Representative FORD. About what time?
Mrs. PAINE. Four, perhaps in the afternoon.
Representative FORD. Had you seen him the day before?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. McCLOY. Who was in the house with you when that call came in?
Mrs. PAINE. Just my children.
Mr. McCLOY. Just your children.
Representative FORD. While you were shopping and after the officers had
come with a warrant, they went in the house, no one was in the house?
Mrs. PAINE. For a portion of the time they were looking, no one was in
the house.
Representative FORD. They were there alone?
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
Mr. McCLOY. Did they indicate--were they still there when you got back?
Mrs. PAINE. No; they were not. Remember the door was locked.
Mr. McCLOY. Yes; the door was locked, that is what I gather. Do you
know what they took on this occasion, or did they tell you what they
were coming for?
Mrs. PAINE. No; I do not. Before I left they were leafing through books
to see if anything fell out but that is all I saw.
Mr. McCLOY. All right.
Mrs. PAINE. In this interim then, I suppose I talked to some more news
people but I want to get to the next important point which was that Lee
called again.
Mr. JENNER. A third time?
Mrs. PAINE. I really call the first two one, but it was twice dialed.
Mr. JENNER. Fix the time, please.
Mrs. PAINE. It was around 9:30 in the evening.
Mr. JENNER. Who was home? Was your husband there on that occasion?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall.
Mr. JENNER. Was anyone else other than your children and yourself in
your home at the time of the receipt of the call in the evening?
Mrs. PAINE. It could only have been Michael. I would remember someone
else.
Mr. JENNER. But you have no definite recollection that even he was
present?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. All right. The phone rang, you answered it.
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Did you recognize the voice?
Mrs. PAINE. I recognized the voice.
Mr. JENNER. Whose was it?
Mrs. PAINE. It was Lee Oswald's.
Mr. JENNER. What did he say and what did you say?
Mrs. PAINE. He said, "Marina, please," in Russian.
Mr. JENNER. Please, Mrs. Paine, did he speak to you in English in the
conversations in the afternoon or in Russian?
Mrs. PAINE. He spoke in English the entire conversation.
Mr. JENNER. The two in the afternoon?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Now, however, he resorted to Russian, did he?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes. He planned to speak to Marina.
Mr. JENNER. I beg your pardon?
Mrs. PAINE. He planned to speak to Marina, and this opening phrase was
one he normally used calling as he had many previous times to speak to
her.
Mr. JENNER. He was under the assumption, you gathered, that Marina was
in your home?
Mrs. PAINE. He certainly was.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mrs. PAINE. And I would be fairly certain that I answered him in
English. I said she was not there, that I had a notion about where she
might be, but I wasn't at all certain. That I would try to find out. He
said, he wanted me to--he said he thought she should be at my house. He
felt irritated at not having been able to reach her. And he wanted me
to----
Mr. JENNER. Did he sound irritated?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes; he sounded just a slight edge to his voice. And he
wanted me to deliver a message to her that he thought she should be at
my house.
Mr. JENNER. And he so instructed you?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. That is what he said?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes. That was so far as I remember, the entire conversation.
Mr. JENNER. What response did you give to his direction?
Mrs. PAINE. I said I would try to reach her.