Mrs. PAINE. Fairly short.
Mr. DULLES. Fairly short.
Mrs. PAINE. That is my recollection.
Representative FORD. What day of the month and what day of the week was
this?
Mrs. PAINE. Well, reconstructing it, I thought they succeeded each
other, the original call to the WH number on Monday and his call back
on Tuesday.
Representative FORD. When he called back it was late in the afternoon
or early evening?
Mrs. PAINE. It was the normal time for him to call back, early evening,
around 5:30.
Mr. JENNER. You have a definite impression she was angry when she hung
up?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Was she abrupt in her hanging up. Did she hang up on him?
Mrs. PAINE. No; she was angry, she was upset.
Mr. JENNER. And her explanation of her being upset was that he used the
assumed name?
Mrs. PAINE. Well, she didn't explain it as such, but she said he had
used it.
Mr. JENNER. He was angry with her because you had made the call?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Or she had made it through you?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Did any further discussion take place between you and
Marina on that subject?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes. The following day he did not call at the usual time.
Mr. JENNER. That would be the following day, the 20th?
Mrs. PAINE. I believe that was a Wednesday and that is how I slipped a
day.
Mr. JENNER. He didn't call at all on the succeeding day?
Mrs. PAINE. He didn't call at all, and she said to me as the time for
normally calling passed, "He thinks he is punishing me."
Mr. JENNER. For what?
Mrs. PAINE. For having been a bad wife, I would judge, for having done
something he didn't want her to do, the objection.
Mr. JENNER. To wit, the telephone call about which you have told us?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Did you and Marina go through a normal day that day, or was
there any other subject of discussion with respect to Lee Oswald on
that day?
Mrs. PAINE. Nothing I would specifically recall; no.
Mr. JENNER. This was the 20th of November, a Wednesday?
Mrs. PAINE. To the best of my recollection.
Mr. JENNER. Let's proceed with the 21st. Did anything occur on the 21st
with respect to Lee Harvey Oswald, that is a Thursday?
Mrs. PAINE. I arrived home from grocery shopping around 5:30, and he
was on the front lawn. I was surprised to see him.
Mr. JENNER. You had no advance notice?
Mrs. PAINE. I had no advance notice and he had never before come
without asking whether he could.
Mr. JENNER. Never before had he come to your home in that form without
asking your permission to come?
Mrs. PAINE. Without asking permission; that is right.
Mr. JENNER. And he was out on the lawn as you drove up, on your lawn?
Mrs. PAINE. That is right. Playing with June and talking with Marina,
who was also out on the lawn.
Mr. JENNER. And you were, of course, surprised to see him?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Did you park your car in the driveway as usual?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Did you walk over to speak with him?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes, got out, very likely picked some groceries out of the
car and he very likely picked some up too, and this is I judge what may
have happened.
Mr. JENNER. Tell the Commission what was said between you and Lee
Oswald?
Mrs. PAINE. Between me and Lee Oswald?
Mr. JENNER. Yes; on that occasion.
Mrs. PAINE. That is not what I recall. I recall talking with Marina on
the side.
Mr. JENNER. First. Didn't you greet him?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes; I greeted him.
Mr. JENNER. And then what did you do, walk in the house?
Mrs. PAINE. As we were walking in the house, and he must have preceded
because Marina and I spoke in private to one another, she apologized.
Mr. JENNER. Was Marina out on the lawn also?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes, sir. She apologized for his having come without
permission and I said that was all right, and we said either then or
later--I recall exchanging our opinion that this was a way of making up
the quarrel or as close as he could come to an apology for the fight on
the telephone, that his coming related to that, rather than anything
else.
Mr. JENNER. That was her reaction to his showing up uninvited and
unexpectedly on that particular afternoon, was it?
Mrs. PAINE. Well, it was rather my own, too.
Mr. JENNER. And it was your own?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And because of this incident of the telephone call and your
not being able to reach him, and the subsequent talk between Lee and
Marina in which there had been some anger expressed, you girls reached
the conclusion the afternoon of November 21 that he was home just to
see if he could make up with Marina?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Do I fairly state it?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. What did you do that evening? Did you have occasion to note
what he did?
Mrs. PAINE. We had dinner as usual, and then I sort of bathed my
children, putting them to bed and reading them a story, which put me
in one part of the house. When that was done I realized he had already
gone to bed, this being now about 9 o'clock. I went out to the garage
to paint some children's blocks, and worked in the garage for half an
hour or so. I noticed when I went out that the light was on.
Mr. JENNER. The light was on in the garage?
Mrs. PAINE. The light was on in the garage.
Mr. JENNER. Was this unusual?
Mrs. PAINE. Oh, it was unusual for it to be on; yes. I realized that I
felt Lee, since Marina had also been busy with her children, had gone
out to the garage, perhaps worked out there or gotten something. Most
of their clothing was still out there, all of their winter things. They
were getting things out from time to time, warmer things for the cold
weather, so it was not at all remarkable that he went to the garage,
but I thought it careless of him to have left the light on. I finished
my work and then turned off the light and left the garage.
Mr. JENNER. Have you completed that now?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. You stated that he was in the garage, how did you know he
was in the garage?
Mr. McCLOY. She didn't state that.
Mrs. PAINE. I didn't state it absolutely. I guessed it was he rather
than she. She was busy with the children and the light had been on and
I know I didn't leave the light on.
Mr. JENNER. Then, I would ask you directly, did you see him in the
garage at anytime from the time you first saw him on the lawn until he
retired for the night?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. Until you retired for the night?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. Was he out on the lawn after dinner or supper?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't believe so.
Mr. JENNER. Did you hear any activity out in the garage on that evening?
Mrs. PAINE. No; I did not.
Mr. JENNER. Any persons moving about?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. The only thing that arrested your attention was the fact
that you discovered the light on in the garage?
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. Before you retired?
Representative FORD. You discovered that when you went out to work
there?
Mrs. PAINE. When I went out to work there.
Mr. McCLOY. When you went out there, did you notice the blanket?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall specifically seeing the blanket. I certainly
recall on the afternoon of the 22d where it had been.
Mr. DULLES. Was there any evidence of any quarreling or any harsh words
between Lee Harvey and Marina that evening that you know of?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. Was there a coolness between them?
Mrs. PAINE. He went to bed very early, she stayed up and talked with me
some, but there was no coolness that I noticed. He was quite friendly
on the lawn as we----
Mr. JENNER. I mean coolness between himself and--between Lee and Marina.
Mrs. PAINE. I didn't notice any such coolness. Rather, they seemed
warm, like a couple making up a small spat, I should interject one
thing here, too, that I recall as I entered the house and Lee had just
come in, I said to him, "Our President is coming to town."
And he said, "Ah, yes," and walked on into the kitchen, which was a
common reply from him on anything. I was just excited about this
happening, and there was his response. Nothing more was said about it.
Mr. DULLES. I didn't quite catch his answer.
Mrs. PAINE. "Ah, yes," a very common answer.
Mr. JENNER. He gave no more than that laconic answer?
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. Had there been any discussion between you and Marina that
the President was coming into town the next day?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Did she say anything on that subject in the presence of Lee
that evening?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall anything of that sort.
Mr. JENNER. What time did you have dinner that evening?
Mrs. PAINE. 6 or 6:30, I would guess.
Mr. JENNER. And calling on your recollection, Mrs. Paine, following
dinner do you remember any occasion that evening when Lee was out
of the house and you didn't see him around the house, and you were
conscious of the fact he was not in the house?
Mrs. PAINE. I was not at anytime of the opinion that he was out of the
house, conscious of it.
Mr. JENNER. You have no recollection of his being out of the house
anytime that evening?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. DULLES. Did he do any reading that evening--books, papers, anything?
Mrs. PAINE. Not to my recollection.
Mr. JENNER. What were you doing that evening?
Mrs. PAINE. I have tried already to describe that after dinner, and
probably after some dishes were done.
Mr. JENNER. Who did the dishes?
Mrs. PAINE. Very likely Marina, it depended on who made the meal. I
normally cooked the meal and then she did the dishes or we reversed
occasionally. But I have tried to say I was very likely involved in the
back bedroom and in the bathroom giving the children a bath, getting
them in their pajamas and reading a story for as much as an hour.
Mr. JENNER. That would take as much as an hour?
Mrs. PAINE. That takes as much as an hour.
Mr. JENNER. By this time we are up to approximately 7:30 or 8 o'clock,
are we?
Mrs. PAINE. Oh no; we are up to nearly 9 o'clock by now. We eat from
6:30 to after 7, do some dishes, brings it up toward 8, and then put
the children to bed.
Mr. JENNER. When you had had your children put to bed and came out of
their room, was Lee, had he then by that time retired?
Mrs. PAINE. That is my recollection.
Mr. DULLES. Did you have any words with Marina about the light in the
garage? Was that a subject of conversation between you?
Mrs. PAINE. No; we didn't discuss it.
Mr. DULLES. You didn't mention it to her?
Mrs. PAINE. No; I didn't discuss it.
Representative FORD. Did he ever help in the kitchen at all, in any way
whatsoever?
Mrs. PAINE. Well, I have said he once did dishes in New Orleans, but
that is about all I recall that he did.
Representative FORD. But in Dallas, in your home, he never volunteered?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. McCLOY. Marina did help around the house?
Mrs. PAINE. She helped a great deal.
Mr. McCLOY. She was a good helper?
Mrs. PAINE. She is a hard worker.
Mr. JENNER. Tell us, the time you came out of the bedroom and put your
children to bed when you noticed the light in the garage; fix as well
as you can the time of evening.
Mrs. PAINE. I think it was about 9 o'clock.
Mr. JENNER. That is when you noticed the light in the garage, around 9
o'clock after you put your children to bed, and at that time Lee was
already retired?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Marina was still up?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. How long did she remain up?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall that evening from that point on much like
any others, with the two of us up, we probably folded some diapers,
laundry. Some evening close to that time, either that evening or the
one before, we discussed plans for Christmas.
Mr. JENNER. You and Marina?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes. But it was probably the evening before. I was thinking
about making a playhouse for the children.
Mr. JENNER. Would you describe Lee's attire when you first saw him on
the lawn when you returned that evening?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall it.
Mr. JENNER. You have no recollection of that? Did he bring--do you know
whether he brought anything with him in the way of paper or wrapper or
luggage or this sticky tape, anything of that nature?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall seeing anything of that nature.
Mr. JENNER. Did you see any paper, wrapping paper, of the character
that you have identified around your home that evening?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. McCLOY. Can't you recall a little more clearly how he generally was
dressed? Did he have a coat on such as I have got on now, or did he
have----
Mrs. PAINE. I never saw him in a suit jacket.
Mr. McCLOY. Suit jacket? What was his normal outer wear apparel?
Mrs. PAINE. His normal attire was T-shirt, cotton slacks, sometimes the
T-shirt covered by a shirt, flannel or cotton shirt.
Mr. McCLOY. Do you recall whether he had that type of shirt over his
T-shirt that night?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall.
Mr. McCLOY. You don't recall?
Mr. JENNER. Did he have any kind of a shirt other than a T-shirt on him
when you saw him?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't really remember.
Mr. JENNER. I wonder, Mr. Chairman, if despite the fact I haven't
reached the next day, if we might excuse Mrs. Paine? She did tell me
she had an appointment at 5:30 this evening, and I would like to have
her think over more so she can be refreshed in the morning as to this
particular evening. And, Mrs. Paine, I would have you trace the first
thing in the morning as best as you can recall Lee Harvey Oswald's
movements that evening and where he was, to the best that you are able
to recall. Would you try to do that for us?
Mrs. PAINE. I think I probably have done the best I can, but I will do
it again if you like.
Mr. JENNER. May we have permission to adjourn, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. McCLOY. Very well.
Mr. DULLES. Could I ask just one question? With regard to this sketch
of the house, I was interested to know where you would see the light in
the garage. Was it from out here?
Mrs. PAINE. This is a doorway into the garage from the kitchen area.
Mr. DULLES. And you saw that light from the kitchen area?
Mrs. PAINE. I think I was probably on my way to the garage anyway,
opened the door, there was the light on.
Mr. DULLES. I see. There are no windows or anything. The door was
closed and the light would not be visible if you hadn't gone into it?
Mrs. PAINE. It would be visible if it was dark in here.
Mr. DULLES. I understand. Through the door.
Representative FORD. And you spent about a half hour in the garage
painting some blocks?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.