The testimony of Glenn Emmett Smith was taken at 9:10 a.m., on April
1, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building,
Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Wesley J. Liebeler,
assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. LIEBELER. My name is Wesley J. Liebeler. I am a member of the legal
staff of the President's Commission to investigate the assassination of
President John F. Kennedy.
I have been authorized to take your testimony by the Commission
pursuant to authority granted to it by Executive Order 11130, dated
November 29, 1963, and joint resolution of Congress No. 137.
I understand that Mr. Rankin wrote to you sometime last week advising
you that I would be in touch with you to take your testimony. I
understand also that he included with his letter a copy of the
Executive order and resolution just referred to, together with a copy
of the rules of procedure for the taking of testimony which have been
adopted by the Commission in conformance with the Executive order and
joint resolution described above.
Did you receive the letter from Mr. Rankin?
Mr. SMITH. I did.
Mr. LIEBELER. Those documents were enclosed with it, were they not?
Three different documents in that letter?
Mr. SMITH. [Hands papers to attorney.] I'd better let you look, for I
don't know what is in there.
Mr. LIEBELER. Yes; they are. The general nature of the Commission's
inquiry is to ascertain, evaluate and report upon the facts relating
to the assassination of President Kennedy and the subsequent killing
of Lee Harvey Oswald. We want to inquire of you today concerning
any knowledge you may have about the alleged sale of a rifle by an
individual thought to be Lee Harvey Oswald to one Robert Taylor. We
would also like to get from you any information that you have about
Oswald's associates in Irving, Tex.
Before we get to the details of that testimony, would you state your
full name for the record?
Mr. SMITH. Glenn Emmett Smith.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where do you live, sir?
Mr. SMITH. 1604 Argentia, apartment C.
Mr. LIEBELER. Is that in Dallas?
Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where are you employed?
Mr. SMITH. At Jack's Super Shell, Rock Island and Story Road, Irving.
Mr. LIEBELER. How long have you been employed there?
Mr. SMITH. Since the 25th of April of 1963.
Mr. LIEBELER. In what capacity do you work at the Shell station?
Mr. SMITH. I am a drive attendant. I work the driveway.
Mr. LIEBELER. What did you do prior to the time that you went to work
for the Shell station?
Mr. SMITH. I was an income tax consultant.
Mr. LIEBELER. Worked in Dallas?
Mr. SMITH. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. How long were you engaged in that?
Mr. SMITH. Just through the tax months, from January 1 to the 15th of
April.
Mr. LIEBELER. What do you usually do? Do you usually work service
stations?
Mr. SMITH. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. How old are you, sir?
Mr. SMITH. Fifty-three.
Mr. LIEBELER. Are you a native of Texas?
Mr. SMITH. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Have you lived all your life in Dallas?
Mr. SMITH. No. I have been here since 1936.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where did you live prior to that time?
Mr. SMITH. Shawnee, Okla.
Mr. LIEBELER. Were you born in Oklahoma or born in Texas?
Mr. SMITH. Born in Texas.
Mr. LIEBELER. Then moved to Oklahoma?
Mr. SMITH. Moved to Oklahoma.
Mr. LIEBELER. Then moved back to Texas?
Mr. SMITH. Moved back to Texas.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know one Robert Taylor?
Mr. SMITH. I think I do.
Mr. LIEBELER. How long have you known him?
Mr. SMITH. Since I went to work, since the 25th of April 1963.
Mr. LIEBELER. Is Mr. Taylor also employed at the Shell station where
you worked?
Mr. SMITH. Well, I don't know if he is going to be let out or not. He
is off sick, and I understand that Mr. Smith has hired another man,
which I know he got a man working. I don't know if he is going to let
Robert come back.
Mr. LIEBELER. But Mr. Taylor did work at the Shell station from at
least April of 1963, up until sometime when he became ill, is that
correct?
Mr. SMITH. He was working there when I went to work, and he worked
there steadily.
Mr. LIEBELER. He became ill?
Mr. SMITH. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Approximately when did he get sick?
Mr. SMITH. He has been off a week and a half now. He went home sick
Saturday a week ago.
Mr. LIEBELER. He hasn't been at work since that time?
Mr. SMITH. Well, he come back and worked 3 hours last Friday and had to
go home again.
Mr. LIEBELER. What kind of work does Mr. Taylor do at the station? He
is--is he a driveway attendant?
Mr. SMITH. No; a mechanic.
Mr. LIEBELER. You actually have a shop there at the Shell station?
Mr. SMITH. We do minor repairs, no major, just minor repair.
Mr. LIEBELER. How old is Mr. Taylor, do you know, possibly?
Mr. SMITH. I think he is 49. I believe he told me he is 49.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever have any discussions with Mr. Taylor about a
man who Taylor thought might be or was Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. SMITH. No, sir; I did not. I heard Mr. Taylor, if I may tell you
this----
Mr. LIEBELER. I want you to tell me what you know about it.
Mr. SMITH. There was an FBI man called out and talked to us, and I
heard Mr. Taylor tell him between customers now, I was just catching
little words, and not enough to make very much sense, but I did hear
him tell that he had traded a rifle or bought a rifle or something from
Oswald.
Now I didn't know Oswald. He showed us his picture, but I didn't know
him. He had been through there but I didn't recognize him.
Mr. LIEBELER. The FBI showed you Oswald's picture?
Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you didn't recognize him?
Mr. SMITH. No, sir.
You see, sir--to my knowledge, I have never seen he or his wife.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you hear Mr. Taylor discussing this rifle that he
bought from this fellow, before the FBI fellow talked to him?
Mr. SMITH. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember when the FBI man came to the station?
Would that have been in about the middle of December of 1963?
Mr. SMITH. I'd be afraid to commit myself. I don't remember when he was
there. It's been about 2 or 3 months ago or something like that.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember the man's name?
Mr. SMITH. No; I don't.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would it refresh your recollection if I suggested that
his name was Morris J. White? Do you remember that was his name or
don't you remember?
Mr. SMITH. I don't remember.
Mr. LIEBELER. Don't you remember that you told the FBI agent that you
had heard conversation that Taylor had purchased a rifle from some
customer, and that that customer was thought by Taylor to be Lee Harvey
Oswald? Didn't you tell that to the FBI agent?
Mr. SMITH. No, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. You did not?
Mr. SMITH. No, sir; absolutely not. I am absolutely positive.
Mr. LIEBELER. The first time you ever heard anything about this rifle
that Taylor was supposed to have purchased was when the FBI agent was
interviewing Taylor, isn't that your statement?
Mr. SMITH. That is right.
Mr. LIEBELER. You never heard anything about it from Taylor or anyone
else prior to that time?
Mr. SMITH. No, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you discuss this question of the rifle with Taylor
after the FBI agent was there?
Mr. SMITH. Nothing more than he told me that let's see now, Bob said he
had traded a rifle, and that is about all. We were busy, and he said he
traded a rifle, and that was the day that he showed the picture to me,
the picture that the FBI man showed me, and that was all that was said
about it.
Mr. LIEBELER. Taylor told you afterwards that the FBI agent had showed
him a picture and this picture was supposed to be a picture of Oswald?
Mr. SMITH. He showed both of us the picture.
Mr. LIEBELER. He showed both of you the picture?
Mr. SMITH. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. And Taylor told you after the FBI agent left that the
picture that the FBI agent showed you was a picture of the man from
whom Taylor had purchased the rifle, is that correct?
Mr. SMITH. He told the FBI man that. He didn't tell me that after he
left, but he definitely told him that in my presence. I heard him.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have any discussions with Taylor after the FBI
agent left about this question?
Mr. SMITH. No, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have any discussions with anybody else about it?
Mr. SMITH. No, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever see the rifle that Taylor supposedly
purchased from this man?
Mr. SMITH. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Taylor ever tell you what kind of rifle it was?
Mr. SMITH. No, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you never heard from anybody what kind of rifle it
was?
Mr. SMITH. I never heard anything about it at all.
Mr. LIEBELER. How well do you know Taylor?
Mr. SMITH. I never knew him until I went to work there. Just by working
with him, that is all.
Mr. LIEBELER. You never associated with him outside of work?
Mr. SMITH. No, sir; I hadn't.
Mr. LIEBELER. Have you ever formed any opinion as to Taylor's
truthfulness or his reliability?
Mr. SMITH. I think he is truthful, and I think he is reliable.
Mr. LIEBELER. You don't think he would tell the FBI agent that he got
a rifle from this fellow if he didn't in fact get a rifle from this
fellow?
Mr. SMITH. I don't. I sure don't.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know where 2515 West Fifth Street is in Irving,
Tex.?
Mr. SMITH. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Have you ever been there?
Mr. SMITH. I have taken a lady home that lived there, to bring a car
back to service it.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you remember approximately when that was?
Mr. SMITH. Oh, we serviced her car quite often. What I mean, washed it
and greased it, and she comes in occasionally now, but not like she
used to.
Mr. LIEBELER. Have you gone to her house more than once to bring the
car back to the station?
Mr. SMITH. To the best of my knowledge, I believe three times.
Mr. LIEBELER. Were all of these times prior to the assassination?
Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you remember approximately when the first time was
that you took this lady home to her house and brought the car back to
the station?