Mr. SLACK. The only time--I didn't specifically say to Oswald. I said
to all the boys, to seven or eight shooters, about that rapid firing
and about shooting other targets rather than the one they bought and
paid for. If they were in chair 7, and there was a number down a 100
yards, No. 7, he was supposed to shoot No. 7.
Mr. LIEBELER. Other than that, you didn't say anything to him?
Mr. SLACK. That is all I said.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have a chance to see the rifle that he had?
Mr. SLACK. I absolutely saw the rifle.
Mr. LIEBELER. What kind of rifle was it?
Mr. SLACK. It was an Italian type rifle, but it never showed in the
newspapers, a picture of that rifle.
In other words, if the first picture that came out of the officer
holding the rifle, that was on the floor of the Book Depository, if
that was the gun, I had never seen that gun before, and I know rifles
and I know scopes.
Mr. LIEBELER. What was the difference between it and the rifle you saw?
Mr. SLACK. The one he had was a small three-quarters, about seven
hundred fifty thousandths diameter tube, a small tube no bigger than
your thumb, with the windage gage. They were practicing. It was a cheap
scope. Well, $5.66 scope. But it was sporterized. You cut the wood off
of them. Short barrel.
Mr. LIEBELER. In other words, this rifle that Oswald had was a
sporterized rifle? It had been rebuilt?
Mr. SLACK. Just as advertised. I have seen besides the Oswald, I have
friends that have those rifles. I wouldn't shoot a toad frog with one
of them, because I know that they are just junk.
In other words, you take that rifle as it was manufactured, and you cut
the barrel off 8 inches, and you take all the wood off the top of the
barrel and cut this off here, and varnish it, and have it blued, and it
makes a pretty little gun. It was one that he had wrapped up and handed
over the fence, but they had two other guns that type. They had no
scopes on them.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was there somebody else?
Mr. SLACK. That Sunday there sure was. The tall boy had the biggest
feet of any kid I ever saw, and about the time he would go to shoot, he
would kick with his feet, and I said if my feet was that big I would
bump somebody too.
He was the boy that drove him to that rifle range the 17th. They found
the boy. He had no connection with him except he had driven him there.
Mr. LIEBELER. How do you know they found him?
Mr. SLACK. I read it in the paper. I don't know what his name was.
Don't know where they found him, but they found him, and he had no
connection with him, no more than I had. He just probably begged a ride
and he took him to the rifle range, but they had three guns.
Lucille remembers the boy handing the guns over the fence, and they
were throwing the guns in the back of the old model car and taking off
like they did.
And I recognized that because a gun, a good gun, you are not
supposed--they just threw those old guns in that car, or they took two
of them. Of course, one was wrapped up in a blanket, a dirty looking
old grey blanket that had a red trim, I remember. I remember that,
because we found an old blanket at our house and I told Lucille I was
trying to think, I knew it was something common, this good gun, it was
wrapped up and tied up.
The sporterized Italian gun was tied up and he handed it over the fence
nicely. And he had a grey and red maroon, looked slick as satin, and
I remember it well, what a gun case--you see everything at a shooting
place--some bring a rifle in a tote sack and--for a gun case.
The other thing I remember about that blanket he had wrapped around his
gun, it was tied up with a rag string that was torn about an inch and a
half wide out of a filling station type wipe cloth, a ribbon, pink, and
he had torn it up and--to use as a rag string.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember what kind of car these fellows drove?
Mr. SLACK. No; I couldn't remember it, and Lucille couldn't except it
was an older model car.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was it a sedan?
Mr. SLACK. A four-door sedan, and it was a dark color, and he left
there like a crazy bunch of hoodlums. And Lucille would remember that
because she made a remark to me. You know how boys take off and make
the dust fly.
Well we had--in other words, without having some reason, you wouldn't
notice what kind of car it was.
Mr. LIEBELER. I want to show you a picture of a rifle. Two pictures
that have previously been marked as Exhibits 3 and 4, on the deposition
of Mr. Greener, and ask you if that looks like the rifle they had at
the rifle range?
Mr. SLACK. I don't remember a carrying strap on it, this rifle here.
Of course, that is something you use to carry the gun, if you take it.
That could be it, that is right, with the sling off. When I saw the gun
the sling was not on it.
I don't think it had the wood up above the barrel, because when it is
sporterized, as I remember, the whole barrel is painted blue.
Mr. LIEBELER. So there was not as much wood to the front of the rifle
on the one you saw at the range, is that right?
Mr. SLACK. That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER. What about the scope? Was it the same kind of scope?
Mr. SLACK. I can say no. Pictures do something to you, but that scope
seems like it is a 1-inch, that scope, according to the size of the gun
and proportions of sizes. This is the same gun upside down, the other
side.
Mr. LIEBELER. Well, you are pretty clear this isn't the rifle because
of the wood that protrudes?
Mr. SLACK. This rifle had the barrel cut off. I know this rifle right
here. This is proportionately, Mr. Liebeler----
Mr. LIEBELER. Pardon?
Mr. SLACK. No; the sight is, the open sight is out on it since it has
been cut off.
Mr. LIEBELER. The one that you saw at the rifle range had been cut off,
is that correct?
Mr. SLACK. It had been cut off, and I will swear it had been reblued,
and it did not have the front ramp sight of that rifle.
Mr. LIEBELER. So that the rifle you saw at the rifle range is not the
same rifle as the picture I have just shown you, is that right?
Mr. SLACK. Now they had two other rifles that would fit that. They were
not sporterized.
Mr. LIEBELER. But they didn't have scopes on them?
Mr. SLACK. They didn't have scopes on them.
Mr. LIEBELER. But you remember that the rifle you saw at the range did
have the barrel cut off and didn't have the sight on the front so it
couldn't have been this rifle?
Mr. SLACK. I would say that. I would say that is not it, because the
sporterized rifle, the shiny new one, I don't think it had the metal
binding on it. The top wood, so this holds the top wood. Now, that is
the type of rifle, see what I mean. But I really notice things about
rifles like a jewelry man or a lady would about the setting of a ring.
I wouldn't know--but I know rifles.
Mr. LIEBELER. But this was the same general type of rifle as the one
you saw that had been sporterized and had the wood cut off?
Mr. SLACK. This is a magazine. You recognize one of them a mile off.
Mr. LIEBELER. Let me show you some pictures of a man or some men that
have been previously marked Commission Exhibits 451 and 453 through
456. I want to ask you if this looks like either one of the men that
you saw at the rifle range on the 17th of November?
Mr. SLACK. The jacket was the first thing I remembered. When they
described the jacket in the paper before I even looked at the fellow,
because the man pulled a jacket off and put it on top of a load of sand
you used it for a pad to shoot from----
Mr. LIEBELER. Is that the guy you saw? Does anyone in those pictures
look like him?
Mr. SLACK. Those heavy eyebrows and that part in the hair, but
apparently he had more hair. Maybe he got a haircut afterwards.
Mr. LIEBELER. Who had more hair, the fellow?
Mr. SLACK. The picture. The man I saw in this picture right here.
Mr. LIEBELER. The man you saw had more hair?
Mr. SLACK. Yes; he sure did.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you think that any of these pictures are a picture of
the man that you saw at the rifle range that day?
Mr. SLACK. The difference in position he was in and everything, that
looked like him, but he wasn't that sleepy-eyed. He was a cocky guy.
Mr. LIEBELER. Referring to Exhibit 453?
Mr. SLACK. When he looked at me. I don't see how in the world he could
ever get a pleasant look on his face like this picture here. Probably
he could, but----
Mr. LIEBELER. You think that the picture 456 looks a little more
pleasant than the fellow you remember seeing at the rifle range, is
that right?
Mr. SLACK. He sure does.
Mr. LIEBELER. Let me show you another picture, Mr. Slack, that has been
previously marked as Pizzo's 453-C, and ask you if that looks like the
fellow you saw at the rifle range?
Mr. SLACK. That is him. I would know that baby face and that chin, and
he had a--I remember people, but no names.
Mr. LIEBELER. What about the hair?
Mr. SLACK. That is the man I saw at the rifle range.
Mr. LIEBELER. You are sure about that?
Mr. SLACK. I know it is. In other words, just like if I saw you
tomorrow. Because his eyes were deep like a man that was, that wears
highly magnified glasses and then doesn't have his glasses on. And he
had that deep--that is the man we saw out there. That is the man. And I
would remember him 20 years from now, just over that one incident.
Mr. LIEBELER. Have you seen that guy's picture in the paper?
Mr. SLACK. But he don't have a good--he didn't have a very good
likeness of him, like the paper pictures. That was him as I saw him at
the rifle range, and as I saw him I second before. No, one-tenth of a
second before he was shot. That is the time.
Mr. LIEBELER. You mean on television?
Mr. SLACK. On television. And I saw when they were transferring him
even before that. And I told Lucille, I told my wife, wait a minute,
I've got to see the side of his face.
Mr. LIEBELER. Could you recognize the side of his face?
Mr. SLACK. But not positive enough until I got to see him at the time
he was shot. You see, you read the papers and you get to where you
imagine things and you find yourself imagining that you saw somebody,
and I never had anything that made me as sick for 3 days. Absolutely
made me sick of stretching my brain of trying to figure out what
contact we had had with the guy.
Mr. LIEBELER. Here is another picture. Take a look at that and see if
you can recognize anybody in that picture?
Mr. SLACK. The fifth fellow from the left, because I saw the side of
his face quite a bit at the rifle range. He has rather a long nose and
long chin and a high forehead. In other words, that was the thing about
the man that I would remember.
Mr. LIEBELER. Here is another picture. It is the same picture that I
just showed you except that it has a green line over the fellow that
you have indicated, does it not?
Mr. SLACK. Well, it is like this picture. Those are the front, no, he
doesn't have a part. He didn't have that hair. I would remember his
hair. And he had the hair that grew down his neck, all the way down
into his jacket.
Mr. LIEBELER. You say this fellow here in the picture, the fifth fellow
from the left is not the person?
Mr. SLACK. That is the fellow. As I remember, this is the fellow that
is under the green mark. But seemed like he had more hair. You see, I
shot in one chair. I looked at the side of that fellow quite a bit.
Mr. LIEBELER. You think the fellow you saw at the rifle range had more
hair than the fellow with the green mark?
Mr. SLACK. Yes; of course, the wind blew and he was bareheaded. I guess
he had a haircut in this picture here. He had quite a bit of hair on
his back and on his neck like me. I need a haircut. But I remember,
because on the television the hair was also down on his neck. Even more
so than he shows in the picture there. Probably taken at different
times and under different conditions. Just like this picture here, he
is a pleasant looking fellow.
Mr. LIEBELER. This fellow looks more pleasant than the guy you saw?
Mr. SLACK. Yes; of course, at times, a fellow can be sorry on the world
and still there would be a little fun come into him sometime. And he
had big ears. His ears stood out, what I mean.
Mr. LIEBELER. The picture that you are looking at is 453-B, Pizzo's
exhibit, that we have been referring to. I don't think I have any more
questions, Mr. Slack. I want to thank you very much for coming in and
cooperating with us the way you have. I know we gave you very little
time and we appreciate it very much.
Mr. SLACK. We had already forgotten everything about it, and we figured
it was, well, it was just some unpleasant memory, and it couldn't have
shocked me. Now this newspaper, Gruber, was a press, a Washington
pressman, was he some of your bunch?
Mr. LIEBELER. What was his name?
Mr. SLACK. Gruber.
Mr. LIEBELER. What about him?
Mr. SLACK. He is the fellow that came to see me about 3 weeks ago. He
called me three or four times and give me a lot of trouble, and I give
him to understand that I didn't want to talk with him, because the
newspaper had, I thought, made too big a show out of it.
And they used my name and used my address. They didn't put my picture,
with the assassination, or the picture, but I expected it any time to
come out, but I have a good friend with the Times Herald, Mr. Albert
Jackson, and I called Albert and I told him not to send his men because
I was not talking to the newspaper. My phone was tapped and they came
out the next day and everything that I told Albert, the newspaperman,
and I told him that, because I didn't want it to get in the paper. He
never put it in their paper. My own friend never got anything, but the
news, they got it all.
Mr. LIEBELER. What made you think your telephone was tapped?
Mr. SLACK. I think it was because they had things in the paper.
Mr. LIEBELER. Who do you think tapped it, the newspaper people?
Mr. SLACK. The FBI and the Secret Service, they didn't tap it. They
don't do things like that.
Mr. LIEBELER. The Secret Service doesn't?
Mr. SLACK. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. What about the FBI?
Mr. SLACK. They said they did not, and I blamed it on the newspaper.
And they came and made a television picture of me and gave me an
interview. And I wanted to know what identification they had and who
they were with, and they fooled around and made about a 3-minute
conversation and they never did show it, but it never was shown
anyplace. Just newshounds. And they put up a big front that it was the
Warren Commission.
Mr. LIEBELER. Who were they?
Mr. SLACK. The television guys from Fort Worth, and they were in such a
big hurry to leave, they just took my picture and took off. They had 15
minutes to get to Fort Worth, and I never heard any more of it at all.
Mr. LIEBELER. I don't think they had anything to do with the Warren
Commission.