The testimony of A. C. Johnson was taken at 3:45 p.m., on April 1,
1964, in the office of the U.S. Attorney, 301 Post Office Building,
Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. David S. Belin, assistant
counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. BELIN. Will you stand up and raise your right hand, Mr. Johnson?
Do you solemnly swear in your testimony to tell the truth, the whole
truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. JOHNSON. I do.
Mr. BELIN. Please be seated, sir. Your name is A. C. Johnson?
Mr. JOHNSON. A. C.
Mr. BELIN. Where do you live, Mr. Johnson?
Mr. JOHNSON. 1026 North Beckley.
Mr. BELIN. That's here in Dallas?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. How long have you lived there?
Mr. JOHNSON. I've lived there 17 years, I believe.
Mr. BELIN. Now what's your occupation?
Mr. JOHNSON. Carpenter.
Mr. BELIN. Are you originally from Texas, or did you move here?
Mr. JOHNSON. No, I'm from Kentucky--was born in Kentucky. My folks came
here when I was 5 years old.
Mr. BELIN. They came here to Texas?
Mr. JOHNSON. When I was 5 years old. And I've been in and around Dallas
ever since.
Mr. BELIN. Did you go to school here?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes--not in Dallas, but country schools--county schools,
you know.
Mr. BELIN. How far did you go through school?
Mr. JOHNSON. Sir?
Mr. BELIN. How far did you go through school?
Mr. JOHNSON. Uh--just grade school.
Mr. BELIN. Just grade school. And then did you go to work?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Did you ever have any Army service at all?
Mr. JOHNSON. No.
Mr. BELIN. Just by general background, has your general occupation been
a carpenter for most of these past 20 or 30 years?
Mr. JOHNSON. No; I've been a carpenter for about--uh--well, about 20
years, I guess.
Mr. BELIN. Before that, what did you do?
Mr. JOHNSON. I was raised on a farm.
Mr. BELIN. And you worked on a farm then?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. And you and your wife have this house at 1026 North Beckley
and have people that room there by the week?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. About how many people do you have that room there?
Mr. JOHNSON. Well, when it's full, we have 17.
Mr. BELIN. Has it been full within the past 6 months at all, or not?
Mr. JOHNSON. No, no, it hasn't.
Mr. BELIN. By the way, how long have you been married, Mr. Johnson?
Mr. JOHNSON. Seventeen years.
Mr. BELIN. You've been married 17 years?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Now, sometime last fall, a person came to your house to rent
a room who you knew by the name of O. H. Lee. Is that correct?
Mr. JOHNSON. That's right.
Mr. BELIN. When he first came, were you all full at that time or
not--or don't you know?
Mr. JOHNSON. I believe that--uh--the little room he took was the only
room available at that time.
Mr. BELIN. Had he come any earlier to try and find a room earlier--or
not?
Mr. JOHNSON. Uh--Mrs. Roberts said he had been by once before.
Mr. BELIN. And was that little room available then, or not--or don't
you remember?
Mr. JOHNSON. I don't remember exactly. I believe, though, that--uh--I
believe he looked at it and decided he'd wait awhile. But the next time
he came back, why he decided he'd take it.
My wife told him that--uh--if he wanted to take that room, why he
could, you know, when we had a larger room and more convenient for him,
why he could have it. And so he just--after he got this little room,
why he just decided he'd stay in it.
Mr. BELIN. Could you describe that little room for us?
Mr. JOHNSON. Well, it's just a--a small room. I believe it's about 8 by
12, or something like that. It was a library room.
Mr. BELIN. Does it have any windows in it?
Mr. JOHNSON. It has--uh--three--four windows, I believe.
Mr. BELIN. On one side, two sides, three sides?
Mr. JOHNSON. One side.
Mr. BELIN. They're all on one side?
Mr. JOHNSON. All on one side.
Mr. BELIN. Do you have any curtains on those windows?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Did you have curtains at that time on the windows?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. How were the curtains put up--by curtain rods, or by what?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes. Curtain rods. Yes. They were just on regular curtain
rods.
Mr. BELIN. There were already curtain rods in the room, then, when this
O. H. Lee came there--is that correct?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, uh-huh.
Mr. BELIN. Could you describe the curtains at all, that were in there,
if you remember them, or not?
Mr. JOHNSON. No; I couldn't.
Mr. BELIN. Would those curtains still be on there today? Or might you
have different ones now?
Mr. JOHNSON. No; we'd have different curtains now.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know who he got his room from--from you or from your
wife or from your housekeeper?
Mr. JOHNSON. I don't know.
Mr. BELIN. Who was your housekeeper, by the way?
Mr. JOHNSON. Earlene Roberts.
Mr. BELIN. Is she still there?
Mr. JOHNSON. No; she's moved.
Mr. BELIN. How long had she been a housekeeper for you?
Mr. JOHNSON. Well, that's something around a year--this past--the last
time, I mean.
Mr. BELIN. She was a housekeeper for you prior to that time?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes; about a year or a little better.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know how old Mrs. Roberts is--approximately?
Mr. JOHNSON. I believe she's in her fifties.
Mr. BELIN. Would you have any objections in stating for the record
approximately how old you are?
Mr. JOHNSON. I'm 59.
Mr. BELIN. Fifty-nine. Did Mrs. Roberts say why she was leaving?
Mr. JOHNSON. No; she didn't.
Mr. BELIN. Did she give you any notice that she was leaving?
Mr. JOHNSON. No; didn't give us any notice.
Mr. BELIN. She just walked out?
Mr. JOHNSON. Just walked out.
Mr. BELIN. When did she walk out?
Mr. JOHNSON. It was in the night.
Mr. BELIN. Just the middle of the night?
Mr. JOHNSON. Well, we don't know what time. All the roomers had already
gone to bed, so we don't know what time it was.
Mr. BELIN. Did she have any pay coming from you, or not?
Mr. JOHNSON. I don't know. My wife always pays her. Now, I couldn't
tell you. I don't remember. I've even forgotten what night she moved.
I think my wife paid her on Wednesday night--or on Wednesdays. But I
couldn't tell you what day she moved.
Mr. BELIN. The last time she worked for you, when she left did she give
you any notice?
Mr. JOHNSON. No. The last--the last time was the one I had reference to.
Mr. BELIN. I mean, the first time that she worked for you? Or don't you
remember?
Mr. JOHNSON. Uh--I don't remember.
Mr. BELIN. All right. In any case, this man, O. H. Lee, came to rent a
room from you or from your wife?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Could you describe how you came to find out that this man
had another name other than O. H. Lee?
Mr. JOHNSON. Well, it was when the officers came looking for him.
Mr. BELIN. When was this?