Mrs. GARNER. Let me get my glasses. Maybe I can see better.
Mr. LIEBELER. When this incident concerning the leaflet on the screen
of the porch occurred, was that before or after Oswald had been
arrested?
Mrs. GARNER. That was before.
Mr. LIEBELER. Before he was arrested?
Mrs. GARNER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. How long before?
Mrs. GARNER. That I don't remember. I don't remember exactly all that,
but I know--I can't very well see, but it looks like around here
somewhere.
Mr. LIEBELER. Aside from the two different people you have previously
mentioned as having visited Oswald, one the Cuban or Spanish fellow and
the other two for a total of three people you saw come to visit Oswald,
did you ever see anybody else come to visit in his apartment?
Mrs. GARNER. Not that I know of.
Mr. LIEBELER. Late in September sometime, as I understand it, this
station wagon that brought Oswald's wife to the apartment in the first
place returned?
Mrs. GARNER. Yes; it did.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did it not?
Mrs. GARNER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you see who was driving the station wagon at that
time?
Mrs. GARNER. No; I didn't see who was driving it. All I saw was the
station wagon.
Mr. LIEBELER. You never saw the person who came in the station wagon
that time?
Mrs. GARNER. I did not.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did your husband see that person?
Mrs. GARNER. Yes; my husband.
Mr. LIEBELER. At this time.
Mrs. GARNER. Yes; my husband saw her and spoke to her. I never did see
her.
Mr. LIEBELER. He told you it was a lady, did he not?
Mrs. GARNER. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. And the lady, from reading the newspapers, you and your
husband assumed that this was Mrs. Ruth Paine of Irving, Tex.?
Mrs. GARNER. That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER. But you yourself never met or talked to Mrs. Paine?
Mrs. GARNER. I never did.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you become aware of the fact that Oswald was employed
during the time that he lived in your apartment? Did you know anything
about his job?
Mrs. GARNER. When he rented the apartment he told me he was working
at Reily Coffee Co. on Magazine, whatever you call it. It is a coffee
company, and as far as I know I didn't think he worked there as long as
he did, because he was always home, unless he worked at night.
Mr. LIEBELER. When did you learn that Oswald had been dismissed from
the job, or no longer worked at Reily Coffee Co., if you ever learned
that?
Mrs. GARNER. I said, it seemed like when he rented the apartment, I
didn't think he worked 2 or 3 weeks. Well, but I learned later he
didn't get laid off until July 19, something like that, unless they
changed shifts, because he was working in the day at first and I used
to see him get off the bus in the evening coming home, but then after
that I didn't see him any more. He was always sitting on the screen
porch reading. He must have been working at night. He was always on the
side porch, probably reading all the time.
Mr. LIEBELER. You say he read a lot?
Mrs. GARNER. He sure did.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you see at any time what he was reading?
Mrs. GARNER. Well, it always was books, like those pocket books and
papers, real big books, regular books.
Mr. LIEBELER. You never saw the names of any of the books?
Mrs. GARNER. No; you couldn't get that near him.
Mr. LIEBELER. What else did he do with his spare time besides reading?
Mrs. GARNER. That's all I ever saw him do. To say if he ever went out
or anything like that, he would go back and forth, catch the bus and
go, and didn't stay long and come back. How many times he went out
at night or anything like that, I don't know. I really couldn't tell
you because I wasn't on that side. The few times I did see him I just
happened to be out there.
Mr. LIEBELER. You mentioned something about him wearing a bathing suit.
Mrs. GARNER. That's all he always wore, all the time. Always he had
thongs on and yellow shorts, bathing trunks, and nothing on top walking
around the yard like that.
Mr. LIEBELER. Also the Commission has been informed that Oswald spent
a considerable amount of time spraying bugs or insects of one sort or
another.
Mrs. GARNER. He did. He done that, yes. He was always around the back
of the house where the bathroom window was, spraying some sort, and the
screen porch he would spray.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever talk to him about this spraying activity of
his?
Mrs. GARNER. No; I never did.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know whether your husband did?
Mrs. GARNER. No; he didn't. I don't guess he did; he never said
anything about it, but there were plenty of ants and I guess that is
why he was spraying. They always had a lot of ants, you know, and
roaches. I know they had a lot of roaches.
Mr. LIEBELER. Cockroaches?
Mrs. GARNER. In that apartment, when they left.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he ever complain to you about them?
Mrs. GARNER. No. We never had them before he moved. Whenever we used to
spray, we had the pest control, but when he moved out they had plenty
of them. They left the place filthy, too.
Mr. LIEBELER. The place was dirty when he left?
Mrs. GARNER. Was it? The icebox was broken, the freezer door was broken
off, the stove was broken, the mattress was ruined.
Mr. LIEBELER. What was wrong with the mattress?
Mrs. GARNER. I guess the baby.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know whether his wife, Marina, liked the apartment?
Mrs. GARNER. I don't know. She never did say anything about it.
Mr. LIEBELER. She never did say anything about it?
Mrs. GARNER. I never did talk to her about any apartment.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you yourself personally see when this station wagon
left?
Mrs. GARNER. No; I didn't see it.
Mr. LIEBELER. It arrived late in September 1963?
Mrs. GARNER. I didn't see when it left; no.
Mr. LIEBELER. When was the last time you saw the station wagon, please?
Mrs. GARNER. Well, whatever day that was, Sunday or Monday, whenever
they left. It was about that morning. Like I said, early that morning
they was packing it up, and then later on through the day between 10
and 11 I looked out there and it was gone.
Mr. LIEBELER. This would be either Sunday or Monday, September 22 or
23? Is that right?
Mrs. GARNER. That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER. You are not exactly positive which it was?
Mrs. GARNER. I am not sure whether it was Sunday or Monday.
Mr. LIEBELER. Your husband is pretty sure it was Monday.
Mrs. GARNER. He is sure it was Monday; yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. The 23d of September.
Mrs. GARNER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you have no recollection that is contrary to that; is
that correct?
Mrs. GARNER. No; I haven't.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you see Oswald leave, when he finally left the
apartment?
Mrs. GARNER. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know when he left?
Mrs. GARNER. Well, I figure he left that same night, whatever day that
wagon left, myself. I don't think he come back. He might have come back
in that apartment to get his stuff, whatever he had. I don't think he
stayed there that night at all, that's what I believe.
Mr. LIEBELER. Your husband said in the discussion we had with him
previously that he heard some noise in the apartment the night the
station wagon left.
Mrs. GARNER. He might have heard him packing up stuff getting ready to
leave. I don't think he come back after he left that night; I think he
left that night.
Mr. LIEBELER. Your husband did say he thought he heard these noises
about 7 or 7:30 in the evening. Is that right?
Mrs. GARNER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. You say you think the noise he heard was just the noise
of Oswald getting his stuff and leaving?
Mrs. GARNER. Yes; getting his stuff to get moving.
Mr. LIEBELER. In any event, you never saw Oswald around the place at
all after the day the station wagon left; is that right?
Mrs. GARNER. No; I didn't.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you discuss with anybody who lived in the
neighborhood or in the apartment house when actually Oswald did leave?
When we think about this question, let's first of all confine ourselves
to the period of time prior to the assassination. Were you concerned
about when Oswald left or how he left, prior to the time of the
assassination?
Mrs. GARNER. You mean how he left?
Mr. LIEBELER. That is, did you talk to any of the neighbors or anybody
in the building?
Mrs. GARNER. When they seen him leave?
Mr. LIEBELER. Did they see him go?
Mrs. GARNER. Yes. I don't remember asking anybody, just figured that he
had skipped and left that night. I didn't bother asking anybody about
that, but later I was talking to Mr. Rogers, one of the tenants, and he
said yes, he seen him leave about that time that evening, the bus was
coming and he ran out with his suitcase.
Mr. LIEBELER. That was after the assassination, you talked to Mr.
Rogers?
Mrs. GARNER. Yes; definitely after.
Mr. LIEBELER. After you had been interviewed by the FBI and Secret
Service?
Mrs. GARNER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Mr. Rogers--what is his full name; do you know?
Mrs. GARNER. Eric Rogers; is all I know.
Mr. LIEBELER. Does he still live there?
Mrs. GARNER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Mr. Rogers told you he saw Oswald the same evening that
the station wagon left? Is that right?
Mrs. GARNER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. And he saw Oswald come out of the apartment house and run
to catch a bus?
Mrs. GARNER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Is that right?
Mrs. GARNER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. And it was about dark?
Mrs. GARNER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Mr. Rogers say how many suitcases Oswald had in his
hand?
Mrs. GARNER. He just said with his suitcases or suitcase. I don't
remember exactly what he said.
Mr. LIEBELER. You are not able to tell us whether Oswald had one
suitcase, two suitcases with him when he left, or what?
Mrs. GARNER. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. And Mr. Rogers didn't tell you?
Mrs. GARNER. No; I didn't ask him. I don't remember. I don't remember,
really if it was the same day the station wagon left or not he told me,
and I don't think he even said that day it was, but it must have been
right after that, you know, what night or the next day. I feel like it
was that night. It must have been, because I know he didn't have any
reason to stay around there any longer.
Mr. LIEBELER. Mr. Rogers didn't specifically say it was the same day?
Mrs. GARNER. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he ever say what kind of luggage Oswald had?
Mrs. GARNER. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. You never saw Oswald with any suitcases of any kind?
Mrs. GARNER. I never was in the apartment. After they rented the
apartment, I never went in the apartment.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you never saw him outside with any luggage?
Mrs. GARNER. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you never saw what kind of luggage they were packing
in the station wagon?
Mrs. GARNER. I saw boxes, but I never did see any luggage. I saw boxes,
and baby beds and playpens and stuff like that.
Mr. LIEBELER. But you don't remember noticing any specific suitcase of
any kind?
Mrs. GARNER. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you form an opinion as to whether Marina Oswald could
speak English or not?
Mrs. GARNER. Well, I didn't think she could speak English at all. When
I heard her on television say a few words, something like that, I was
surprised because at home she never said anything. And another thing,
she would nod, try to tell you hello when he wasn't there, but if he
was there like they was sitting on the steps or something, or they
would go through the drive and he was there, she wouldn't even look at
you.
Mr. LIEBELER. She was more friendly and outgoing when Oswald wasn't
there?
Mrs. GARNER. Yes; when he was there, she wouldn't have nothing to say.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever see a rifle or gun of any kind in the
apartment, or around the apartment?
Mrs. GARNER. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Or the station wagon, or just anywhere?
Mrs. GARNER. No, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. You never had any reason to believe that Oswald had a
rifle in his possession?
Mrs. GARNER. No; I never knew about that, never saw anything looked
like a gun or anything like that. Like I said, they have asked me that
so many times before, and they just packed this station wagon and if
he had a gun I don't guess he put it where anybody could see it, and
whatever was in the station wagon could have been, I mean anything with
value, because they took a few days packing it to leave and it sat out
there at night on the street.
Mr. LIEBELER. Without locking, or do you know whether they locked the
station wagon?
Mrs. GARNER. I don't know whether they locked it, but that don't do
much good in this city. It don't do any good to lock your doors; what
good does it do? I nail mine; that is better yet.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you discuss with anybody besides Mr. Rogers whether
or not Oswald left on the same day his wife did, or how he left?
Mrs. GARNER. Do you mean in the neighborhood?
Mr. LIEBELER. Yes.
Mrs. GARNER. I never talked too much to them, you know, unless I might
be talking to Miss Eames next door and said he might have left that
same night or something like that, but that's about all.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was that Mrs. Eames?
Mrs. GARNER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Mrs. Doris E. Eames?
Mrs. GARNER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. She lives at 4907 Magazine Street?
Mrs. GARNER. Yes; right next to Oswald's apartment, in other words, and
their kitchen windows was even to each other, across from each other.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Oswald get any mail that you know of while he lived
in the apartment 4907 or 4905 Magazine Street?
Mrs. GARNER. Not that I know of. I never went around the mailboxes to
find out that, never went around the mailbox to see what kind of mail,
and after he left I checked the mailbox and my husband found a light
and gas bill and sent it back to the company.
Mr. LIEBELER. I believe you said Oswald actually owed you about 2
weeks' rent when they left. Is that right?
Mrs. GARNER. Fifteen days, something like that, 2 or 3 weeks. I think
it was 3 weeks' rent, because the last time when I sent my husband to
see about the rent, I told him it was going to be 3 weeks, and, "You
know he isn't going to catch up with that and pay another month's rent
and stay here by himself."
Mr. LIEBELER. He moved in on the 9th of May; is that right?
Mrs. GARNER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. And he left about the 22d of September or the 23d?
Mrs. GARNER. About the 22d or 23d.
Mr. LIEBELER. So he would have had to pay up the rent through the 9th
of September?
Mrs. GARNER. Through the 9th, the 9th of September; that was when.
Mr. LIEBELER. That was when the rent came due again?
Mrs. GARNER. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. And he paid his rent for the month?
Mrs. GARNER. You see, he was paid up to the 9th of September.
Mr. LIEBELER. He was paid through the 9th of September?
Mrs. GARNER. Right; and after the 9th he started on another month but
never paid me.
Mr. LIEBELER. He left owing rent for the period from September 9 until
the time he left?
Mrs. GARNER. The 24th or 23d, whatever date it was.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know Mr. Louis N. Rico?
Mrs. GARNER. Yes; I think that is my tenant in the back in the detached
apartment, away in the back downstairs, Louis Rico.
Mr. LIEBELER. They don't live there any more?
Mrs. GARNER. No; they moved.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know whether they had anything to do with Oswald?
Mrs. GARNER. No; he never did talk to him. Oswald wouldn't bother with
nobody.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever see Oswald drive a car?
Mrs. GARNER. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know whether he could drive?
Mrs. GARNER. No; I couldn't answer that. I don't know.
Mr. LIEBELER. You had no way of knowing where Oswald went when he left
your apartment house, do you?
Mrs. GARNER. No; I sure don't.
Mr. LIEBELER. As far as you know, Oswald intended to stay on in the
apartment, at least that is what he had told your husband?
Mrs. GARNER. That's what I figured all the time, and every time I
passed he was sitting on the porch, or either sitting by the lamp
inside of the living room when it was dark, reading.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you think of anything else you remember about Oswald?
Is there anything else you know about him that the Commission ought to
know that I have not asked you about?
Mrs. GARNER. Well, like I say, every time I talk, I tried to think, and
there is really nothing. I just usually always stay by myself and never
go to the door unless I have to. The only thing is--I did hear a couple
of times like they were arguing and she would be crying. I guess they
were arguing, I couldn't understand the Russian language and she would
be crying, and that went on a couple of hours at a time, and I figured
that was family trouble. I couldn't even understand what they were
saying.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did they seem to have more family trouble than most
people, or do you think they got along fairly well?
Mrs. GARNER. It is just about twice I heard it in the months they were
there.