Mr. JENNER. You mean the tenants had come after you?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Oh, yes; they said they could hear glass falling and
evidently they had put a baby blanket there--a baby blanket was all
over it, tacked down over the window.
Mr. JENNER. The pane of glass in the door was broken and they had
tacked a baby blanket over the broken glass?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes, all the way around it--they had quite a large blanket
and they put that around it, so my husband told them if they didn't
straighten up or, you know, they were so annoying that the other people
had to rest too, that he was sorry but they would have to find another
place.
Mr. JENNER. And it was shortly after that that they left?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes; shortly after that they moved in over on Neely.
Mr. JENNER. During this period that they lived there from the 3d
of November 1962, to the 3d of March 1963, did you become better
acquainted with Mrs. Oswald?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes. Now, Mrs. Oswald would come in my house quite
frequently.
Mr. JENNER. She would?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes; she seemed very lonesome, and she would be standing
out in the patio we were talking about, and right up at my walkway into
the hallway, and I asked her if she didn't want to come in and she
would say "Yes," and so she and the baby came in, but she always would
just smile.
Mr. JENNER. Did she speak with you?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Well, I was going to tell you--the first time she came in
I said, "Your husband says you are Czech," and she began to shake her
head--no.
Mr. JENNER. She shook her head in the negative?
Mrs. TOBIAS. She said, "No," and then she told me that.
Mr. JENNER. What did she say?
Mrs. TOBIAS. She said she was Russian.
Mr. JENNER. She said that in Russian?
Mrs. TOBIAS. No; she said that in English, but she said, "My husband
said it was bad and my husband told me if I said I was Russian people
would be mean to me."
Mr. JENNER. She made it known to you with her limited command of
English--she said what you have now related?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Oh--yes; she said it. I understood her real well.
Mr. JENNER. You did?
Mrs. TOBIAS. And she said, "My husband thinks people will be mean to
me," and I said, "Nobody will be mean to you," and I said, "You are
always welcome to come into my house." I am always nice to the tenants,
but I don't run back and forth, but I try to be nice to them. A lot of
them do seem lonesome when they come in. She came in lots of afternoons
and would just set this little girl down on the floor and she was 9
months old when they moved in there and she would crawl around over on
the rug and she would stay in there sometimes an hour, and she did that
lots of afternoons--just lots of afternoons she would come up.
Mr. JENNER. And during that--with all of this period of time, you had
many opportunities to observe her?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes; and then she came in the evening and wanted to know
if she could use the phone. She said, "I don't know where my husband
is." She told me that.
Mr. JENNER. About when was that?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Well, that was just maybe a short time before they moved
out of there--that could have been a short time, because they weren't
there too much longer after that. It was in the evening and I had such
a hard time talking to her myself, it seemed to be harder for her to
grasp or to understand English than it was for me to her, so I said to
her, "Mrs. Oswald, Marina, can you read English?" She said "Yes"--and I
went and got a tablet of paper.
Mr. JENNER. You got a tablet?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes; I did. I went over to the desk and I got a tablet
and on this sheet of paper, you know, I took a pencil and I put on
there, "When he gets home give him a good kick in the shin." And she
just started laughing. She read that--she could read that, and she read
that, and she thought that was real funny, and she said she would, so
she came back the second time.
Mr. JENNER. That evening?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes--she never did find him. She called--she must have
called lots of places, but, of course, spoke not in English.
Mr. JENNER. When she made these telephone calls, she always spoke in
the foreign language?
Mrs. TOBIAS. She never spoke in English.
Mr. JENNER. You never heard her use English over the telephone?
Mrs. TOBIAS. No; only when she would try to talk to me and I would see
Mrs. Oswald every day. She would have a handwashing, you know, and
there were lines in the back.
Mr. JENNER. What kind of housekeeper was she?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Well, I never was in there but once, and I'll tell you why
I was in there then--this fellow came over and he said to my husband,
"I think that he's really hurt her this time."
Mr. JENNER. Now, this was another tenant?
Mrs. TOBIAS. A tenant--yes, and we didn't hear her and I didn't see
her out at the clothesline, and my husband said, "Why don't you and I
go over and rap on the door and see if she will come to the door and
see if she's okay." He said, "We can tell her that the sweeper is over
here--she hasn't found the sweeper--she doesn't know anything about it."
Mr. JENNER. That would be the sweeper to use in the apartments?
Mrs. TOBIAS. A vacuum sweeper.
Mr. JENNER. I take it this was sometime in 1962?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes; because that could have been sometime in December,
but I just don't have no dates. That's the worst part of it. If we
had had any idea--but anyway, she came to the door and she had her
housecoat on and she had marks on her face.
Mr. JENNER. Where--what portion--the left cheek or the right cheek?
Mrs. TOBIAS. It would be like this [indicating].
Mr. JENNER. That's her right cheek?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes; she was facing me.
Mr. JENNER. Up near her eye?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes. And her eye was dark and we told her that--we spoke
to her.
Mr. JENNER. What did she say?
Mrs. TOBIAS. We told her what we had come for, that over in the other
building in the closets there was this vacuum cleaner and if she ever
wanted to use it, she could come over and my husband told her--he said,
"If you don't know where it is, come to my door and I will show you."
Mr. JENNER. Did she understand what you were saying?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes, she did. She understood--we made her understand, so I
don't know when they came for the sweeper, but they always would come
together and get that sweeper--you could hear them in the hall--they
were right at my door. He would always come with her when she come to
get the sweeper. He never seemed to want that woman to be out of his
sight when he was around, but that's the only marks. Now, she seemed to
be okay and I just looked in her door--I never was in her house.
Mr. JENNER. How did you find her apartment on that look in?
Mrs. TOBIAS. My husband doesn't clean--he said it wasn't very clean.
Mr. JENNER. It was not?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Not too clean, my husband said it wasn't too clean.
Mr. JENNER. And was there anything out of the ordinary? I assume
tenants leave your premises and the apartments are not too clean, and
this is not an extraordinary experience, is it?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Well, it's just not picked up and cleaned up and swept up
like it should be. We require them to use the vacuum and leave it like
they find it.
Mr. JENNER. But there was nothing in the way of broken furniture or
gouged out walls?
Mrs. TOBIAS. No, just that door.
Mr. JENNER. Just the pane in the door?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes; that pane in the back door had to be replaced.
Mr. JENNER. Did this man drive an automobile?
Mrs. TOBIAS. No, he didn't own one while he was there?
Mr. JENNER. Did he drive one?
Mrs. TOBIAS. No; I never seen him with one.
Mr. JENNER. You never saw him drive one in your life?
Mrs. TOBIAS. No; I never saw him drive an automobile in my life. He
was always walking when I've seen him and they would go for a walk and
maybe for groceries, and she would always be carrying that baby. He
never carried that baby. She would always carry that child. That baby
was real frightened. Now, my husband is just real fond of children and
they take up with my husband real easy, but this child was always too
frightened and it always seemed to be so frightened and never seemed to
want anyone near it. It always seemed to be such a frightened child.
Mr. JENNER. Did Mrs. Oswald occupy this apartment with her husband
during all the period, November 3, 1962, to and including March 3, 1963?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Well--do you want me to tell you something that happened?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. TOBIAS. We had gone out for a ride on a Sunday afternoon and when
we came back, there was a car in the driveway.
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me, this is Mr. Davis from the State of Texas
attorney general's office.
Mr. DAVIS. How are you--nice to see you.
Mrs. TOBIAS. Okay.
Mr. JENNER. Now, go right ahead.