Mr. JENNER. And with whom did you talk when you came there?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I was there early for the appointment and I talked to
Leonard Calverly, who was the daytime foreman in the camera department,
and he showed me around the place, and he talked to me and told me the
final decision would be up to Mr. Graef.
Mr. JENNER. That's G-r-a-e-f [spelling]?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. He is head of what?
Mr. OFSTEIN. He is a supervisor in charge of the camera department,
and I talked with him at approximately 9 o'clock and he seemed
satisfied--he would give me a try as a trainee, and wanted to know when
I could come to work, and I told him that morning and I went to work
immediately.
Mr. JENNER. Had you had any experience in the use of cameras?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Not in the same type of camera--no, sir.
Mr. JENNER. What experience had you had in camera work?
Mr. OFSTEIN. It had been strictly pleasure photography with smaller
cameras.
Mr. JENNER. Had you done any developing work?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. You had had some darkroom experience?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Very much?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Not a whole lot--no, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did either of these gentlemen inquire of you as to your
experience in that direction?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Both of them?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I don't recall--I know that Mr. Graef did.
Mr. JENNER. What kind of photography work does Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall
do?
Mr. OFSTEIN. It's strictly commercial--advertising type of photography.
We make posters and poster effects and different types of effects
for different advertising media--newspaper, magazines, and so
forth--billboards.
Mr. JENNER. What kind of cameras are employed?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I'm not sure of the brand names we have.
Mr. JENNER. I'm thinking more of the size, weight, whether they are
portable or aren't portable, or whether they are fixed or aren't fixed.
Mr. OFSTEIN. They are fixed, they move on a track to determine the size
of the copy that is photographed, and they have fixed mounted lenses in
the walls.
Mr. JENNER. And you move from one lens to another, is that the way?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir; you mount the copy to be photographed on the
board and you move that board, and the board that you put your film
on--to get it different sizes.
Mr. JENNER. What is the character of the training?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Mainly they start you out with doing small jobs--just
normal--what we call straight shots. It amounts to getting a size and
photographing it and developing it, opaquing the negatives, and making
nice clean prints, and then as you progress you do more difficult type
work.
Mr. JENNER. Do you know what lithography is, lithographing?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir; I have heard the term--that's all.
Mr. JENNER. Making metal plates?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Or reproductions?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Is there any lithographic work done by that company?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I'm not certain--I don't believe so.
Mr. JENNER. Do they do any printing themselves?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. What is the nature of that kind of work?
Mr. OFSTEIN. They have the photosetter machine which does the printing
on film usually for a transfer to some other surface. They have hot
metal, they have linotype and monotype, and, of course, they have
reprint presses.
Mr. JENNER. And you were trained to do what?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Strictly camera work.
Mr. JENNER. Did your work extend beyond the taking of the photographic
imprint on a film?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir; we were taught also to set filmotype, which is a
process of writing out on a sheet of paper from a film negative that's
already been put into a roll and making words and sentences and so on
and photographing that, also, distortion of negatives and different
types of copy.
Mr. JENNER. What do you do to the distortion work?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Well, they have different processes--they have what they
call perspective, which entails turning the copy board and the film
mounting board at different angles from each other to make one end
look smaller going off at a distance, and they have what is known as
stretches and squats, which entails putting mirrors before the copy
board to make a character or letter taller or smaller and doing circles.
Mr. JENNER. They would have a magnifying or contracting mirror?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir; and circles which is done with a circle device
using a film positive to curve a straight line around and, of course,
they have their different reproduction effects, such as the screens and
the halftones.
Mr. JENNER. Do you know whether this company has done any confidential
or secret work for any agency of the United States?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I don't know the nature of the classification. I do know
that they do work for the U.S. Government.
Mr. JENNER. Have you ever participated in any of that work?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Only during strike--approximately 2 weeks.
Mr. JENNER. Do you know whether Lee Oswald did?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir--I'm sure he didn't.
Mr. JENNER. Is that work confined to those in the plant who are
particularly skilled or trained to do that particular kind of work?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Had Lee Oswald at the time his employment there was
terminated reached that degree of skill?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir; that is handled by a different department
altogether.
Mr. JENNER. And how long had you been employed there when Lee Harvey
came with the company?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I was hired in March, 2 years ago, 1962--I would say
approximately 9 months.
Mr. JENNER. Do you recall when he came--about approximately when?
Mr. OFSTEIN. October 1962.
Mr. JENNER. You became acquainted with him when he became employed?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did you have any social contact with him during all the
period of his employment?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Were you in contact with him because of the employment you
had and the work you were doing and the work he was doing?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did you ever become sufficiently acquainted with him that
you either sought to visit him or invite him to visit you, or did an
occasion arise ultimately in which you thought your acquaintance was
sufficient or your interest in him or his wife or both of them was
sufficient that you sought to have some social contact?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. When was that?
Mr. OFSTEIN. On the day that his employment terminated, I told him
that I hoped he found another job and we would have to get together
sometime, being he was married and I was, and I believe it was
approximately a week later when I wrote a letter to him inviting him
and his wife to come and visit us some Saturday evening and have social
activities.
Mr. JENNER. Was there any response to that letter?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir; none whatsoever.
Mr. JENNER. From the day his employment terminated to the present, have
you seen him in person?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. From that day until the present, had you had any contact at
all with him?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir; only my attempt at inviting him and his wife to
the house.
Mr. JENNER. Other than that circumstance?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. How did you know where to write him?
Mr. OFSTEIN. He gave me his address--post office box.
Mr. JENNER. Do you recall the number?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I have it with me.
Mr. JENNER. You made a note of it, I take it?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes; I wrote it down.
Mr. JENNER. And you still have it?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I believe so--yes, sir; Post Office Box 2915, Dallas, Tex.
Mr. JENNER. Did he give you a telephone number?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. What, if anything, do you know about Oswald's ability to
operate a motor vehicle?
Mr. OFSTEIN. None whatsoever.
Mr. JENNER. Did your acquaintance reach the point at which he talked
with you some of his past history?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Let's start back to the time he became employed in October
1962, and you start in your own words and tell us your acquaintance
with him, how that acquaintance ripened, if it did ripen, the nature of
your work with him at the Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall plant.
Mr. OFSTEIN. Well, after he became employed, we worked more or less
side by side while he was training and everything, and the contact I
had with him--it was necessary to teach him how to operate the cameras
and how to opaque negatives and make clean prints and just the general
work around there.
Mr. JENNER. Now, sticking right at that point--what was his skill and
acquaintance in that connection when he first started?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Well, he seemed to take a great interest in it as far as
skill went--it was, I would say, at the beginning approximately the
same as anyone else's would have been.
Mr. JENNER. Little or none?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Little or none; yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. All right, proceed.
Mr. OFSTEIN. He did improve somewhat, as far as I could see, but never
turned out extreme quality work such as is required to leave the plant,
and, of course, that is what caused the termination of his employment.
It must have been about January of 1963, that--of course--at the time,
he was having trouble getting along with people. He wasn't the outgoing
type who tried to make friends. You had to more or less stick with him
and be with him constantly to even talk to him freely. He would shove
his way in places, he wouldn't wait his turn at certain machines, and
the reason I got along with him as well as I did, possibly, is because
I am outgoing and I try to get along with everybody, and I believe that
their own disposition is theirs. If I don't like it, I don't exactly
have to put up with it, but I feel that there are people who don't like
me for things I do, so I overlooked most of his bad traits and things
that most of the other fellows got upset about and mad about. And,
we talked occasionally and he wanted to know at one point if it was
possible to make an enlargement of a normal negative there such as is
taken in a small camera and I told him, "Yes," and showed him how to do
it, and he had one picture that he wanted to enlarge. It showed a river
of some sort, with a fairly nice looking building in the background,
and I asked him if that was in Japan because he had been stationed in
Japan.
Mr. JENNER. He told you he had?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir; and he said, "No, it wasn't in Japan," but he
wouldn't elaborate on it, and I found out later that it was in Minsk.
Mr. JENNER. How much later did you find that out?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Possibly the latter part of February, or the middle part
of February 1963.
Mr. JENNER. How did you find that out?
Mr. OFSTEIN. He came down with some Russian literature one day.
Mr. JENNER. Russian literature--what was the form of this literature?
Mr. OFSTEIN. It was a newspaper, I believe, at the time.
Mr. JENNER. English or Russian?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Russian.
Mr. JENNER. Printed in Russian hieroglyphics?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir; yes.
Mr. JENNER. In other words, it was a Russian language publication?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir; published in the Soviet Union.
Mr. JENNER. Did he show it to you?
Mr. OFSTEIN. He didn't exactly show it to me, but it was in plain view.
Mr. JENNER. Did you look at it?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Do you remember anything about it that would tend to
identify it?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Not extremely clearly--it was possibly a copy of the
Soviet White Russian, I believe is what the title of it is, but I
noticed that there--we had a conversation about the paper.
Mr. JENNER. Was anybody present in addition to yourself and Oswald?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I don't believe so; no, sir.
Mr. JENNER. What was the substance of the conversation, first?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Well, he saw me looking at the paper and he wanted to know
if I understood anything that was written there, as I had written down
a couple of characters and I told him I read a little and understood a
little, and therefore I asked him if he could read the paper, and he
said, "Yes," he understood Russian very well, and that was possibly the
thing that brought our friendship or acquaintanceship closer to being a
friendship than anyone else's down there.
Mr. JENNER. You discovered a common interest other than your work?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Where had you learned to decipher Russian characters?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I learned this while I was in the service.
Mr. JENNER. Where were you stationed?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I was stationed in Germany for the active part of my tour.
I was stationed in California for my training and at the various and
sundry other little towns for basic training and temporary status.
Mr. JENNER. Did you take any work in the language school out in
California at Monterey?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. What language did you study there?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Russian.
Mr. JENNER. Tell me how that came about?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Well, when I went in the service I was interested in
radio--I was a disc jockey at the time, and the closest thing my
recruiting sergeant said that I could get to radio would be possibly
with the Army security agency, so I signed up, and after basic training
I went to Fort Devens, Mass., and was held there on a temporary status
while the agency determined what type training I should have, and I was
given a language ability test and passed that and had a choice of three
languages to take, and Russian was my first choice and I was sent to
Monterey to study.
Mr. JENNER. And how long were you at Monterey?
Mr. OFSTEIN. One year.
Mr. JENNER. And was that entire year spent in the study of the Russian
language?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And I assume, with an entire year's study at that special
school of Monterey, you acquired a facility with the language, did you?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Not as well as I should have; no, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And why was that?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Well, I was a little on the young side then and I was
interested in other things and the freedom to leave the post and go to
town and the availability of recreation there deterred my studies.
Mr. JENNER. I see. You acquired some facility in reading Russian?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And some facility in speaking Russian?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Was this conversational Russian?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. What about writing Russian?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir; all that was covered.
Mr. JENNER. And at the end of the 1 year what happened?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I was sent to an oversea duty station in Germany and
completed my tour there.
Mr. JENNER. Did you pursue your study of the Russian language at
anytime from the time you left Monterey until the present?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Only in little--what you might say, self study in spurts.
Mr. JENNER. All right. I interrupted you--you told him you could handle
a few characters?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Did you then tell him about your study of the Russian
language when you were in the Army?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir; he asked me where I had learned it and I told him
I had picked it up during the time I was in the service, as well as the
German language, which I picked up while I was stationed in Germany,
and I asked him where he had learned to read Russian and he wouldn't
elaborate on it at first, and after a period of time--I don't know how
long--he did admit to me that he had been in the Soviet Union and my
assumption was possibly that he had worked as an agent of the United
States at the first.
Mr. JENNER. What did he tell you, if he ever did, as to where he
acquired his knowledge of and facility with the Russian language?
Mr. OFSTEIN. He never did elaborate on whether he learned it in the
Soviet Union or before or just how he had picked it up.
Mr. JENNER. He was uncommunicative on that subject?
Mr. OFSTEIN. More or less; yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. But you did ask him directly?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And he did not respond?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did you attempt to converse with him in Russian or he with
you?
Mr. OFSTEIN. We said a few words in Russian to each other--I would
more or less ask him or tell him, "Good morning" and ask him how he
was feeling or some other things like that, and he would respond and
usually make a criticism on my ability to speak the language.
Mr. JENNER. He would make criticism--was that a friendly criticism on
his part?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. It wasn't ridicule?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. All right; go ahead.
Mr. OFSTEIN. And he seemed very happy of the fact that I was able to
speak a little Russian, and he seemed to enjoy that more than any of
the other things down there.
Mr. JENNER. With regard to your facility with the language, did you
have a greater facility to understand it when spoken by someone else
than you did with reading it or speaking it yourself?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And did he speak to you in Russian from time to time?
Mr. OFSTEIN. From time to time--very seldom.
Mr. JENNER. You say he asked you to help him make an enlargement of a
print or of a film?
Mr. OFSTEIN. It was a print and he wanted a negative on it, so I
got him a continuous tone negative, which is the type required for
reproduction.
Mr. JENNER. Could you tell us what you mean by that--somebody has a
positive print?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And that's what he had?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Right.
Mr. JENNER. And it showed a river and a nice building in the background?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And he wanted it enlarged?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. What did you do?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I shot a negative of it from a masking film, which is the
type film required to reproduce a photograph such as is used by most
people of children or their houses or their cars, and showed him how to
put it in the enlarger and blow it up and the type of paper to use, the
different contrasts of paper, and he made the enlargement of the print.
It was a pretty rough print--it had been torn at one time.
Mr. JENNER. You mean his print had been torn?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Was it a photograph or a postcard, or was it something that
you were under the impression he had taken?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Himself?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Right.
Mr. JENNER. With a camera--what I would call a Brownie camera?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. That sort of thing?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Right.
Mr. JENNER. All right; go ahead.
Mr. OFSTEIN. After I showed him how to do that, he experimented with it
a little bit and got what he thought was possibly the best reproduction
he could have gotten of it, and several times thereafter he made
enlargements of pictures that he had while he was in the service,
pictures that he said were taken in Japan, showing snow on the ground
in bivouac areas and so on with himself in several of them.
Mr. JENNER. Were there any more pictures of Russia, taken in Russia?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Not that I noticed. If he had any, he didn't show them.
Mr. JENNER. But he did not have the facility himself to make these
enlargements, you had to show him how to do it?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. About what period of time was this with respect to when he
started working and when his employment was terminated?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I would just make a guess that it was about 1 month after
he started, because he seemed interested in whether the company would
allow him to reproduce his own pictures, and I told him that while they
didn't sanction that sort of thing, that people do it now and then.
They do it occasionally and end up reproducing a couple of pictures
that wasn't anything out of the way.
Mr. JENNER. He did reach a point where he told you something of his
background?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. His past history?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Tell us about that.
Mr. OFSTEIN. Well, he said that he was in the Marine Corps and that
after he disclosed that he had been in the Soviet Union, he told me
that that had been after his tour of service with the Marines, and
again he wouldn't elaborate on how he was there or why he was there,
and as I say, at that time I presumed he was possibly with the U.S.
Government or on a scholarship basis or some other basis and just
didn't want to talk about it, so I didn't pursue it any further, and I
discarded this idea after I learned that he had a Russian wife.
Mr. JENNER. When did that develop?
Mr. OFSTEIN. That must have been about the middle or the latter part of
February of 1963.
Mr. JENNER. How did you learn that?
Mr. OFSTEIN. He brought it up one day when we were speaking of the
Russian language and I was talking to him about it--or we were talking
together, I should say, about the Soviet Union, and he was telling me
various things about their way of life over there and he mentioned that
he had married a Russian girl, a White Russian.
Mr. JENNER. Can you tell us now what he said about what his life over
there and his reactions to it--what did he say in that whole area in
substance?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Well, the main thing--he dwelled on their difference of
life--mainly to do with their food and the habits of the people and the
military installations and the disbursement of the military units.
He mentioned that they used caviar over there on bread the way we use
butter, because of the lack of butter and dairy products, and how you
would find things like loaves of bread on the tables in the cafes and
restaurants the way we would find salt and pepper over here. He also
mentioned about the Russian guards. At this time he disclosed that the
building in the photograph was some military headquarters and that the
guards stationed there were armed with weapons and ammunition and had
orders to shoot any trespassers or anyone trying to enter the building
without permission.
He also mentioned about the disbursement of the military units, saying
that they didn't intermingle their armored divisions and infantry
divisions and various units the way we do in the United States, that
they would have all of their aircraft in one geographical location and
their tanks in another geographical location, and their infantry in
another, and he mentioned that in Minsk he never saw a vapor trail,
indicating the lack of aircraft in the area. He also said about the
Russian people that they were sentimental or serious people and
somewhat simple, that----
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me; I just wondered if you misspoke--you said they
were sentimental and serious, did you intend both of those words?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Well, I was more or less searching for the right words. I
remember he said they were simple and more or less serious minded. They
were more mindful of world events than he thought the American people
were, but that they didn't have the war hysteria, as he called it, that
the people in the United States did.
He said whenever you saw any indication in the Russian newspapers of
war, that the Soviet people thought it was relatively close because of
the lack of publication about it, such as at the Lebanon crisis and he
mentioned that he had been in Moscow, I believe, and a couple of other
cities other than Minsk.
Mr. JENNER. Did he name any others besides Moscow and Minsk, did he
name any others?
Mr. OFSTEIN. He possibly did, but I don't recall what they would have
been.
Mr. JENNER. Is it your recollection that he did mention some others,
though you cannot recall the names; or, are you uncertain that he did
mention any others at all that he had been in?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I'm not extremely certain at all; it's possible that he
did.
Mr. JENNER. All right; when you were speaking freely without any
prompting on my part, you mentioned Minsk and Moscow and others--now
that I have pressed you a little, what is your present recollection on
that score now?
Mr. OFSTEIN. That he had mentioned them, but exactly what they were,
whether they were large towns or whether they were small towns--I don't
recall--whether he just visited them or had some purpose in being
there, he never did mention that at all.
He mentioned that he was in Moscow for the May Day parade at one time
and that the Soviets made a big show of power of their latest tanks
and planes and so forth, and I asked him at one time about his freedom
of movement, and he said that he had complete freedom of movement over
there, that the MVD, I believe it was, had inquired of his neighbors
about him and had talked to him on one occasion or two, but that they
didn't put any holds on him or restrict him from any areas or anything
like that, and I believe it was about this time that he mentioned he
had married the White Russian girl.
Mr. JENNER. Did he say anything about where the Russian girl he married
was?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. What was your impression as to where she was?
Mr. OFSTEIN. My impression was that he was living with her--that he had
her here in the United States.
Mr. JENNER. But he didn't say anything that would lead you now to think
or recall the statement on his part that she was with him in the United
States, or is that an assumption on your part?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes; he did mention it. He mentioned that he had gotten
several books from the library at times to take home for him and his
wife to read.
Mr. JENNER. In his discussions of life in Russia, to the extent you can
relate them, did he ever voice any political doctrine or theory?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did you get any impression as to how he regarded his life
in Russia?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Only that he didn't think it was the type of life that he
wanted to lead.
Mr. JENNER. Did he expand on that to any extent?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Well, he said that the people there were poor, they worked
and made just about enough to buy their clothes and their food; that
the only ones who had enough money to buy anything else, any of the
luxuries in life, were those who were Communist Party officials or high
ranking members in the party, and I asked him at one time if he were a
Communist and he said, "No."
Mr. JENNER. Did he voice any criticism of the Communist Party
members--did he make any negative remarks?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No; only that he didn't think that he would enjoy the
Communist way of life.
Mr. JENNER. Did he express any views to you with respect to his
reaction to the Government of the United States?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No; he mentioned the last day he was with
Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall--I asked him what he was going to do, where he
would go to work, and he said he didn't know. He liked the type of work
at the company and that he would like to stay with this type of work
and he would look around and if he didn't find anything else he could
always go back to the Soviet Union, and sort of laughed about it.
Mr. JENNER. Do you think that comment of his with respect to returning
to the Soviet Union was jocular?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes; it was sort of a flippant remark--"If I don't get
a job here, I can go someplace else," and I mentioned at the time to
him of a couple other shops around town that did that kind of work and
suggested that he go see them.
Mr. JENNER. What was his response, if any, to that?
Mr. OFSTEIN. He said he might give them a try.
Mr. JENNER. This was at the tail end of his employment with this
company?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes; this was the last day.
Mr. JENNER. How did he appear that day or react to the news which he
received that his employment was being terminated?
Mr. OFSTEIN. He seemed like he was calm, just like any other day except
that he told me this was his last day with the company and more or less
like it was just the end of the job and he was going to try to find
another one.
Mr. JENNER. Did he say anything of whether he had been let out or
whether he had quit?
Mr. OFSTEIN. He just said he had been relieved from his duties as
cameraman.
Mr. JENNER. Did he express any resentment in that connection?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. When he first came with the company, how did he get along
with his fellow employees?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Not very well--just enough to talk to the people who were
working alongside of him to learn what he had to do.
Mr. JENNER. Did those conditions or relations improve as the months
went along?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir; they worsened.
Mr. JENNER. They worsened?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did they worsen before this Russian language newspaper
turned up, or did they really begin to worsen when the Russian language
newspaper turned up?
Mr. OFSTEIN. They worsened before this.
Mr. JENNER. You saw him every day that he worked?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And that you worked?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And you had some interest in him as a person?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. What was the reason for the difficulties he had with
respect to fellow employees, and why did those relationships worsen?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Well, we work in a rather tight area. There is little room
to move around in the darkroom, just about enough room for a man to
stand by the developing trays and allow one person to squeeze behind
him and get by, and he would make it a habit of just bursting through
there head-on with no regard to who was in the room if anyone was
there, and also we were required to get proofs of the work we had done
on a Bruning machine, which is somewhat like a Thermofax--it works on
the same principle of making a proof of it or a copy of it.
Mr. JENNER. I tried a patent case against the Bruning Co., so I know
what their machines are.
Mr. OFSTEIN. But the other department with which we shared the Bruning
machine requires a little more delicate work with the machine, as their
proofs are proofread. Ours are just for further use in case a job comes
back and we need to know what was on the job. He would burst in there
and if someone else was on it, didn't make him any difference, he would
go ahead and put his work through and, of course, this made people mad
about it.
Mr. JENNER. How would you describe all this, that he was inconsiderate?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And selfish and aggressive with respect to himself and
impatient with the rights of others?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes; I think he thought he had the right of way in any
case, either that or he was just in a hurry to get through, and through
his hurrying be made no regard for anyone else's well-being or anyone
else's jobs.
Mr. JENNER. Go ahead.
Mr. OFSTEIN. I never heard him ask anyone to go to lunch with him, or
no one, including myself, that I recall, asked him to go to lunch. I
believe I might have asked him at one time and he always ate alone.
Mr. JENNER. Did he eat with you?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Even though you asked him?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir; not a bit.
Mr. JENNER. But you did ask him?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I believe I did; yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And he declined?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And at least he didn't accept the invitation?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Right.
Mr. JENNER. Did you notice in particular, since you mentioned this
without my prompting, that he did eat all by himself?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I noticed that he didn't eat with anyone in the shop.
Mr. JENNER. He was not a friendly person, then?
Mr. OFSTEIN. He wasn't an outgoing person. I thought he could be
friendly if, as with the Russian language incident--there was something
in common, something that he would take an interest in.
Mr. JENNER. But he made no effort to develop things in common with
others; is that right?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No; that's right.
Mr. JENNER. Did you have any impression that he had an attitude of
resentment toward anybody or anything or his lot in life?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Not extremely or exactly resentment. I would say he didn't
get along with people and that several people had words with him at
times about the way he barged around the plant, and one of the fellows
back in the photosetter department almost got in a fight with him one
day, and I believe it was Mr. Graef that stepped in and broke it up
before it got started, but he was also offered rides by Mr. Graef, and
I offered him a ride a couple of times either to his home or wherever
he wanted to catch a bus, and I know that he always declined my offer
of a ride.
Mr. JENNER. What did he say?
Mr. OFSTEIN. He said; no, he would go ahead and walk, and usually in
the evening when he would leave he would say, "I am going up to the
post office to pick up my mail," and a couple of times I would offer to
give him a ride up this way, as it wasn't much out of my way and I have
to come in this direction anyway to Live Oak before I turn, which is
only about a block difference, and he always declined to ride and would
walk.
Mr. JENNER. Did the subject matter of his experience with firearms ever
arise?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I don't believe so.
Mr. JENNER. Was there any discussion at any time in which he indicated
or in which there was discussion of his ability in the use of firearms?
Mr. OFSTEIN. It seems that he said while he was in the Marines that he
qualified as a marksman.
Mr. JENNER. By the way, what is that rating; do you know?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I'm not certain in the Marines--it differs from the Army,
I am sure.
Mr. JENNER. What is a marksman in the Army, what level of skill is that?
Mr. OFSTEIN. If I remember correctly, marksman is just barely
qualifying, and "expert," of course, is the top you can go.
Mr. JENNER. I have read about snipers--are they "experts", is that
their classification?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I'm not certain, but I'm sure they have to be fairly handy
with a weapon.
Mr. JENNER. Your recollection is a little uncertain in this area, is it
not?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. That is, with respect to what Oswald might or did say to
you on the subject?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I know he said he qualified and I'm almost certain that he
said as a marksman.
Mr. JENNER. Did your discussion go beyond that, did he elaborate on it
in other words?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And that's about the only instance in your recollection in
which there was a discussion on the subject?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. What about his industry, his promptness, his attendance?
Mr. OFSTEIN. He seemed to usually arrive on time and expressed a
desire to work overtime if he was needed, except during the week at
times there were periods when he said he had to go to school and he
would leave with some books, I believe they were typing books from the
library, and he mentioned that he was going to Crozier Tech at night,
and I believe this was one night a week or two at the most. Other than
that, he was there every day, the best I recall, and he did work one
Saturday.
Mr. JENNER. Did he have difficulty obtaining Saturday work from the
company?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Why?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Well, they go on an experience and seniority basis as to
overtime. The people with more seniority have a choice as to whether
they want to work or not and usually they do.
Mr. JENNER. To make that extra money?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And also, does skill have anything to do with it--you
mentioned experience--you meant to include in that experience--his
skill for the level of attainment?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And he had not reached the point at which all of these
factors combined enabled him to command or be reasonably fortunate in
respect to having overtime work?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Right.
Mr. JENNER. Had your skills reached the point at which you had overtime
work on Saturday when you sought it?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. What about his aptitudes with respect to the work for which
he was being trained?
Mr. OFSTEIN. He always strived to try to do good. It seemed like he was
fast, but I noticed that quite a few of his jobs that he did perform
did come back within a normal working day.
Mr. JENNER. More than the normal?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir; I would say so.
Mr. JENNER. There are errors always made, I suppose, by everybody?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. But your impression is that his percentage of error was
above average?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Was there any discussion of that in and among your fellow
workers and with Mr. Graef?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes; it was battered around for quite awhile--exactly how
long, I don't know. About the way that he was turning out a lot of
work, because it had to be redone, therefore wasting company materials.
Mr. JENNER. And time?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir; and they had decided, I believe, it must have
been a month before they finally let him go--to dismiss him.
Mr. JENNER. Was that the general scuttlebutt around the place?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. That he was reaching the end of his employment?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did ever the occasion arise when you learned anything with
respect to whether he was ever able to operate an automobile or ever
owned one or got in one to drive it?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir; every time I saw him on the street coming down
this way after work he was walking.
Mr. JENNER. Did he ever bring any of these books to work--books as
distinguished from newspapers?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I don't recall if he did or not, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Was it a Russian newspaper that elicited this discussion
between you as to the use of the Russian language, or was it a book?
Mr. OFSTEIN. It was a newspaper.
Mr. JENNER. Not a book?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did you tell him where you had learned Russian?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir; I just said while I was in the service I had
picked it up.
Mr. JENNER. Did he at any time ever say or did you ever get the
impression that he had studied Russian while he was in the service?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Your impression was what in that connection?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Well, that he could either have learned it while in the
Soviet Union or at a school.
Mr. JENNER. At a private school?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes; private or public school.
Mr. JENNER. But not while he was in the service?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir; he never led me to believe that.
Mr. JENNER. The information he gave you with respect to the disposition
of military units in Russia--that information was of the character you
have already related--that the tanks were in one area?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And the other types of equipment in another, and did he
tell you where these various units were?
Mr. OFSTEIN. The best I recall, he mentioned that, as I say, that he
never saw a vapor trail of a plane around Minsk, and he mentioned the
location of the tanks, but I am not sure whether he mentioned whether
it was north or south.
Mr. JENNER. Of what?
Mr. OFSTEIN. In the Soviet Union.
Mr. JENNER. In relating this to you, was it in terms of his having seen
these units?
Mr. OFSTEIN. That was the impression I got, though he never directly
said so.
Mr. JENNER. Did he say anything about--after you learned that he was
married to a Russian woman--did he say anything to you about how he had
met her and courted her or any of the circumstances with respect to his
marrying her?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. It was just that he had married a Russian citizen?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Right.
Mr. JENNER. And brought her to this country?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Did he say anything about his military career?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Only that he had served in the Marines and that he had
served in Japan.
Mr. JENNER. Did he say anything about his discharge from the Marines?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. By the way when you first met this man, had you ever heard
of him before or anything about him to your then recollection?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. What else did he say about the military dispositions?
Mr. OFSTEIN. He said he felt it was a rather poor way to distribute the
military because of the fact that support needed by one type of unit,
such as the infantry, needs tanks--took such a long delay because they
had to move it from another segment of the country and that he thought
this was a rather poor situation.
Mr. JENNER. Did he say anything about the location of the--these
units--were they widely disbursed, that is, let's take a tank unit--did
you get the impression that the tank unit would be located far away
from Minsk or near Minsk?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I believe he said the tanks were in the north and I'm not
familiar whether Minsk is in the north of Russia or not?
Mr. JENNER. Did you get the impression they were not in Minsk, however?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. What did he say, if anything, about units that were located
in and about Minsk?
Mr. OFSTEIN. The only thing he mentioned along that line was the
military headquarters and to the best of my recollection, it was a
secret police.
Mr. JENNER. You mentioned in the--is that what you mean by the secret
police, the NVD?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And, that they had a headquarters there in Minsk?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did he make any comment about the MVD?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Only that they had inquired about him several times and
that they didn't follow him around. He said they were somewhat like our
own Federal Bureau of Investigation.
Mr. JENNER. Did he ever make any comparison that was, you thought, an
attempt at being invidious with respect to the FBI as against the MVD?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir; he just said that their operations were somewhat
similar in checking out people they wanted to check on.
Mr. JENNER. Other than that, did he ever say anything about the FBI?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did he say anything about his observations that regarded,
for example, an area in which he could see jet contrails, whether he
would also find nearby, or even at a distance, any other military units?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir; he said if he saw tank treads of tanks, that
he wouldn't see aircraft or infantry units nearby, and that if he
saw contrails, it was the same as the infantry units, that they just
wouldn't intermingle them.
Mr. JENNER. Did he say anything to you about what had led him to make
these observations?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Well, as I said earlier that he had never seen any
contrails, he said, in the Minsk area and that he had been in Moscow
and I presumed he had seen the type units that were stationed at Minsk
and possibly at Moscow.
Mr. JENNER. Is there any work done at Jaggars-Chile-Stovall with the
use of microdot?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Do you know what a microdot is?
Mr. OFSTEIN. That was explained to me by Lee Oswald.
Mr. JENNER. Tell us about that.
Mr. OFSTEIN. He asked me one day if I knew the term "microdot", and I
told him, "no", I wasn't familiar with it and he told me that that was
the method of taking a large area of type or a picture and reducing
it down to an extremely small size for condensing and for purposes,
such as where you had a lot of type to photograph to confine them into
a small area, and he said that that is the way spies sometimes sent
messages and pictures of diagrams and so on, was to take a microdot
photograph of it and place it under a stamp and send it. I presumed
that he had either read this in a book or had some knowledge of it from
somewhere, but where, I didn't know.
Mr. JENNER. When did this conversation occur with respect to the
termination of his employment?
Mr. OFSTEIN. This was possibly 2 or 3 months before.
Mr. JENNER. So, this was after the time that the Russian newspaper had
shown up?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I believe it was; yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Was it after the time you learned that he married a Russian
girl and brought her to this country?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. That occurred afterwards?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. What reaction did you have when Oswald talked about--raised
the subject of microdots and their use or possible use in espionage?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I just thought that as far as he was concerned, it was
possibly another phase of photography and that he was interested in
it. It has since, come up down at the company--the use of microdots
and the different techniques, but we are still not employing those
techniques and I thought possibly that he might have also, as I have
several times, come to read things about microfilm and, of course you
see it in these science fiction movies of space travel and so--the use
of microfilm, and I presumed this was along the same lines.
Mr. JENNER. Did it ever arouse in you any alarm or any doubt?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir; I just thought it was possibly a passing piece of
conversation.
Mr. JENNER. Here again you didn't become suspicious or concerned?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did you speak to anybody about that incident?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir. After Oswald was released from employment, I
did ask the recruiting sergeant for Army security here in town, who I
was stationed with overseas, about the possibility of getting the FBI
to run a routine check on him because of the fact that I have done
security work, and the fact that I also--this was just before I wrote
the letter to Oswald inviting him and his wife over--due to the fact
that I wanted to keep my record clean. Well, I didn't suspect him as
being a spy or anything like that--I just wanted to make sure I was
with the right company, and he told me that it was probably nothing.
Mr. JENNER. You wanted to inquire not only with respect to him but also
whether you were with the right company?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Well, sir, I wouldn't jeopardize losing any chance of
getting a security clearance at anytime I needed it.
Mr. JENNER. And, Sergeant Crozier, did you say his name was--I believe
it is Sergeant Geiger.
Mr. OFSTEIN. His first name is Tom--I can't remember his last name now.
Mr. JENNER. Or, is it Kriegler?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Kriegler--yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. He had been in the service with you, you had served
together?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And, he reassured you?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir; he said that it was probably nothing to worry
about.
Mr. JENNER. When you discussed this Russian language newspaper with
Oswald, was there anything said as to the source of the paper?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Not immediately. I believe it was possibly about 2 months
before he left--I asked him where he got the paper and I said that
I wanted to find a little more up-to-date material to study Russian
with, than what you find in the library, and that I had looked around
town and on the newsstands that I saw handling them--Russian language
newspapers and he mentioned that he got it from a firm in New York or
Washington--Victor A. Kamkin.
Mr. JENNER. That's K-a-m-k-i-n [spelling]?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And, he gave you the address in New York City?
Mr. OFSTEIN. It was New York or Washington--I don't know for certain. I
made an error in my report to the FBI to that respect.
Mr. JENNER. The fact is you were uncertain, but you indicated to the
FBI more positively?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir; whenever the agent came to my home and picked up
the materials, the address was there and we clarified that.
Mr. JENNER. What materials did he pick up?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Well, Lee Oswald had given me a Russian newspaper, "The
Soviet White Russian," and a couple of magazines--the one being a
magazine newspaper type thing and one a magazine, and the FBI agent
wanted these--one of them had his handwriting on the back.
Mr. JENNER. And, those were turned over to the FBI?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did the FBI approach you or did you approach the FBI?
Mr. OFSTEIN. They approached me.
Mr. JENNER. When was that?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I believe it was sometime in December of last year.
Mr. JENNER. Of 1963?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. It was after the assassination?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Did any FBI agent to your knowledge ever speak to you about
Oswald anytime prior to November 22, 1963?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And, other than your talk with the recruiting sergeant,
Sergeant Kriegler, had you drawn the matter to the attention of any
Government agent or agency?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Do any of these names refresh your recollection as to the
newspapers or magazines that he had--"Soviet White Russian"?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Do you recall that as being what?
Mr. OFSTEIN. A local newspaper from the White Russian portion of the
Soviet Union?
Mr. JENNER. And "The Crocodile"?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir; that was a--it would be hard to say whether that
would be a newspaper or a magazine. It seemed like it was thick and
stapled as a magazine, but in the form of a newspaper.
Mr. JENNER. And, then "The Agitator"?
Mr. OFSTEIN. That was a magazine.
Mr. JENNER. Now, did he speak of these or did he have one or more of
these off and on during his employment, or was there just one occasion
that you saw them?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I believe the only time he had them down there was one
incident when I picked them up and the other time later on when he
brought these to me with the address of Victor Kamkin.
Mr. JENNER. After the specific instance about which you have testified,
there was a subsequent instance in which he brought you for possible
ordering purposes, some additional either periodicals or newspapers?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Right.
Mr. JENNER. Among which were the names of which I have related to you?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Right. Now, he did mention that "The Agitator" was a
political magazine and that I probably wouldn't want to order.
Mr. JENNER. He did say that it might well be something you wouldn't
want to order?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Had you heard of "The Agitator" up to this point?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. At no time while you were at Monterey did "The Agitator"
come to your attention?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Do they use Russian language newspapers and periodicals,
that is, printed in Russia?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. In the Monterey language school?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did he surrender these papers and these periodicals to you?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes; he gave them to me and I told him--I thanked him for
them and told him I would bring them back within a couple of days and I
was going to glance through them and he said that would be all right,
that I could keep them.
Mr. JENNER. That you could keep them and you didn't have to return them?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Right.
Mr. JENNER. You surrendered them to the FBI, did you?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. On those--it seems to me you said earlier there was some
handwriting on one or more of these newspapers or periodicals?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Whose handwriting?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Lee Oswald's.
Mr. JENNER. Was the handwriting on those newspapers or periodicals
placed on those items in your presence?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I believe they were--I believe that was the address of
Victor Kamkin on the back of one of them.
Mr. JENNER. That is, Oswald in your presence wrote the address of
Kamkin on some one of these documents?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did you seek to have him help you with your Russian beyond
what you have now related to us?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir; I asked him if he knew any other people who
spoke Russian, and he indicated that he did, that he knew several
Russian immigrants and I asked him at the time if he would be able to
give me anyone's address so that I could speak with them and build up
my vocabulary, and my ability to speak it, and he just kept putting me
off and saying, "In time you'll meet them, in time you'll meet them"
and I never did meet any of them.
Mr. JENNER. Did he give any reason for his apparent putting you off?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir; he said that these people liked to speak with
Americans who had an interest in their language, but they wouldn't want
to take just anyone who went down to the library and picked up a book
and sputtered off a few words. He said they enjoyed having someone
around who could more or less keep up a running conversation with them.
Mr. JENNER. You thought he was classifying you as one who had a fairly
poor command of the language?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And that he had some hesitation about throwing you in with
a group that spoke fluently?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. This was not a derogatory attitude on his part?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir; he said with a little bit of study that I could
possibly get in with the groups and speak with them.
Mr. JENNER. And your feeling is fairly firm that his reluctance in that
connection was along the lines you have indicated rather than a desire
on his part to keep you from that group?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Do you feel that had you had a better command of the
Russian language he would have been willing to introduce you into that
circle?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I believe he would have; yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Do you know whether he had any social contact with any of
the people in the plant?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Not to my knowledge; no, sir.
Mr. JENNER. What is your impression as to whether he did or didn't?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Well, I feel that he possibly got along with me better
than anyone else down there and we had no social contact.
Mr. JENNER. He had none with you and you rationalized from that he had
none with anybody else?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. That judgment was affected by the fact also that he
appeared not to be getting along very well with others in the plant?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did he say anything about being a Marxist?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Was the subject ever mentioned?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No.
Mr. JENNER. You mentioned the secret police, did any conversation ever
occur with respect to any contact of his with, or any contact by, the
secret police with him?
Mr. OFSTEIN. He said that they talked to him once or twice while he was
there and that was all, but that mainly it was just like the FBI would
be running a check on someone here--they would speak with people who
knew them or who were located around them.
Mr. JENNER. Was there anything ever discussed during the period he was
employed about any particular problems of his in Russia, first, let me
say this--any attempt on his part to defect from the United States and
become a Russian citizen?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Any illnesses on his part?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Any difficulties he may or did or might have encountered in
connection with his return to the United States?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Or of his getting his wife out of Russia?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Was the subject of his getting out of Russia discussed at
all?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Was the problem with the Cuban nation or with Mr. Castro or
any of Castro's activities ever discussed?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir; at one time when they were having a little
difficulty down there. I don't recall just what the difficulty was at
the time, but I made a rather derogatory remark about Fidel Castro's
ancestry, and he never seemed to get upset about it.
Mr. JENNER. You just got no response out of him at all on that?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Just a sort of a shrug of the shoulders.
Mr. JENNER. I noticed there was a discussion between you or he with
you, at least, about keeping to yourself the fact that he had been in
Russia?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Was there such an incident?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Will you tell us about it--how it arose, what the
circumstances were, and what he said and what you said?
Mr. OFSTEIN. I believe it was the same time that he informed me that
he had been in the Soviet Union--he mentioned that he didn't want it
to get around, at this time--this was the time I got the impression
that possibly he had been an agent--what was a fleeting impression--and
I remarked later that apparently he had told someone else down there
because someone mentioned it to me about his having a Russian wife.
Mr. JENNER. Was this before he told you he had one?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir; this was after--in fact, I believe it was
after he had been released from employment, but at the time that he
did ask me to keep the fact that he had been in Russia to myself, I
presumed that I was the only one that knew anything about his Russian
activities, that he had even been in the Soviet Union or had a Russian
wife.
Mr. JENNER. I wonder if this would sort of refresh your
recollection--Victor Kamkin Bookstore, Inc., 2906 14th Street NW.,
Washington 9, D.C.?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir; that seems like it, that seems like it.
Mr. JENNER. That sparks your recollection--with Washington, D.C., as
distinguished from any other city?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Did you ever write Kamkin?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes; I got several catalogues from him.
Mr. JENNER. Did you ever order any Russian literature from him?
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Is there anything that occurs to you that you think might
be pertinent to the subject matter of the Commission's investigation,
which I haven't prompted up to the moment?
Mr. OFSTEIN. As directly related to the assassination?
Mr. JENNER. Well--either way--you feel free to say.
Mr. OFSTEIN. No, sir; to the best of my knowledge--no.
Mr. JENNER. Is there anything on the subject matter along the lines
that I have questioned you that is in your contacts with Lee Oswald
which have not been brought out, that you would like to tell us about,
which you think might be helpful?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Nothing that I can recall. As I say, most of the things
that he did tell me--I thought were mainly in the lines of conversation
and nothing more, and that he never made any political advances one
way or the other or gave his own political views. I mean, he never
told me anything derogatory about the United States or about the Soviet
Union--just that he had resided there.
Mr. JENNER. All right, if you wish, you may read your deposition and
make any corrections in it and sign it, or you are of liberty to waive
that if you wish. You can do whatever you want--either way, but you
have the right to read it and correct it if it needs correcting or
additions and to sign it. I would like to know either way so that in
case you decide to waive it, the reporter has a kind of a certification
different from the kind that is put on when you elect to sign it.
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And you are entitled to a copy of the deposition if
you wish to purchase one from this young lady, and you can make
arrangements with her in that respect.
Mr. OFSTEIN. Fine. I will waive the right to sign.
Mr. JENNER. And if at anytime you want a copy of your deposition, call
Miss Oliver and if you happen to forget her name, talk to the U.S.
attorney and he will give you her name.
Mr. OFSTEIN. Fine.
Mr. JENNER. Thank you very much for coming.
Mr. OFSTEIN. All right. Thank you.