The testimony of Mrs. Helen P. Cunningham was taken at 5:20 p.m., on
April 1, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office
Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Albert E.
Jenner, assistant counsel of the President's Commission. Robert T.
Davis, assistant attorney general of Texas, was present.
Mr. JENNER. Would you state your full name?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Helen P. Cunningham.
Mr. JENNER. And would you rise and be sworn. Mrs. Cunningham, in your
testimony that you are about to give, do you swear to tell the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. I do.
Mr. JENNER. I am Albert E. Jenner, Jr. I am a member of the legal
staff of the President's Commission. The President's Commission was
created by U.S. Senate Joint Resolution 137. That Commission under that
legislation is appointed to investigate the assassination of our late
President, John Fitzgerald Kennedy. The President of the United States,
Mr. Lyndon B. Johnson, did act pursuant to that legislation and under
Executive Order 11130, he appointed the Commission and brought it into
legal existence. Its duties, as I have indicated, are to investigate
the assassination of the late President, John Fitzgerald Kennedy, and
in the course of that work, which has now been going on for some time,
we find many people, especially people here in Dallas, who had some
kind of contact in the normal and usual and regular course of business,
most of them, whether State agents or otherwise, with Lee Harvey Oswald
and some of them with his wife, Marina. We understand from others of
your fellow employees of the Commission that you had some contact with
Lee Harvey Oswald and I would like to ask you some questions about that.
Am I right in my assumption that you did have some contact with him?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And it was in your capacity, in the due course of your work
with the Texas Employment Commission, that office being located here in
Dallas?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Where do you reside, Mrs. Cunningham?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. 1046 North Winnetka.
Mr. JENNER. In Dallas?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Are you a native of Dallas?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. What is your definition of "native"--born here, sir?
Mr. JENNER. Well, say--born or lived most of your life in Dallas?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir; my speech indicates that I was not.
Mr. JENNER. I detected that.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. I was born in St. Louis, Mo., and resided in Missouri
in various portions of it.
If my voice is low, young lady, if it doesn't come to you, well please
call my attention to it.
We came to Dallas in 1951 and we have resided here since then.
Mr. JENNER. How long have you been employed by or associated with the
Texas Employment Commission?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Since August of 1957, if I am remembering my dates
properly.
Mr. JENNER. And your duties with the Commission, say, the last 3 years
have been what?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. As an employment counselor.
Mr. JENNER. Explain what that is, please?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. We are a small group of workers that are set into our
operation, who are given more time to deal with applicants, who for one
reason or another had difficulty in finding jobs or in holding jobs,
and we used the best techniques that are available to us to be helpful,
primarily to the applicant, but also preparing him for what he finds in
the labor market, and what working conditions are, and what employers'
requirements are.
Mr. JENNER. Tell me, in general, how does the Texas Employment
Commission function?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. As a quasi-Federal-State operation under the U.S.
Department of Labor and you undoubtedly know that there is a Bureau of
Employment Security office here.
Mr. JENNER. That's the Federal Bureau?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Or agency?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir; which represents the U.S. Department of
Labor and serves a region in which we are. I am by my paycheck an
employee of the State of Texas, however. It works, in general, however,
as all the public employment offices do, in the 50 different States.
Now, do you want more detail than that, or was that helpful.
Mr. JENNER. Well, probably, that is sufficient, with a little
supplementation. Let me put to you a couple of hypotheticals. Someone
comes into this State who has had no connection with any employment
in the State of Texas and that hypothetical person comes to the Texas
Employment Commission and said he is seeking employment--does the
Texas Employment Commission do anything, or would it do anything about
seeking employment for him?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Certainly. We have, you know, what is commonly known
as a clearance procedure, which is an interchange of orders and
applicants among the States and it is an interlocked operation among
States.
Mr. JENNER. And that particular person, I take it from what you say,
you would inquire of him as to his past employment?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. In the other States, and would seek the information from
the other States by way of confirmation, or would you go that far?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir; we generally accept the applicant's statement
as to what his previous employment is, and in general, the employer
checks references if he is considering hiring that individual.
Mr. JENNER. Now, the second hypothetical I would like to put to you--I
anticipate the answer is obvious--he is employed by someone in Texas,
let's say, in this county, that employment terminates, he then comes
to the Texas Employment Commission, I take it you would undertake upon
review of his record and make it a necessary recording of that record;
to also seek to obtain him employment if he sought it?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir. We are a public agency and our doors are
open to the public.
Mr. JENNER. Is it coordinated in anyway with unemployment compensation?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Tell us how that operates?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Well, you know the legislation better than I do,
because I am assuming that your profession is a lawyer?
Mr. JENNER. Yes; I am a lawyer, but don't presume I know anything.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Well, I would hate to be talking to the table
[laughing].
Mr. JENNER. Mrs. Cunningham, the person who reads the record may not be
a lawyer.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. I see.
Mr. JENNER. And may not understand this and my purpose is to record how
the Commission functions.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. The original legislation established the employment
service and the unemployment compensation program under one law,
and until about 1 year ago in Dallas, applicants for unemployment
compensation applied at usually the same office for recording their
availability for work and making a claim for unemployment compensation,
as where the employment services were housed in the last year in
this particular area, and it is not true throughout all the public
employment service offices--not even in this district. We have split
out the employment services from the unemployment services, but
there is a coordination between the offices and in the procedures on
unemployment compensation, I know the general law and the necessity for
being able and available for work, while being a claimant, and I make
no pretense of knowing the up-to-date details of that.
Mr. JENNER. No; I wasn't seeking that. I just wanted the general
picture of how they are coordinated.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. And you see, one of the necessities for a person
filing a claim for unemployment compensation is that he be registered
in a public employment office.
Mr. JENNER. And be available?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Be available and be able to work. Those are basic
requirements and I think those are the same throughout the States.
Mr. JENNER. Now, in the performance of your duties, your particular
function with the Texas Employment Commission, did you have occasion to
counsel, talk with, or examine a man by the name of Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Tell us about that please, ma'am. If you need any of these
records to refresh your recollection, please use them, and as you
refer to them, would you hesitate so I can identify the exhibit to
which you make reference? You may use those documents to refresh your
recollection. You did have a direct contact with Lee Harvey Oswald
and I would like to have you give me the time, when it commenced, and
relate it to us.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. As Mr. Statman has probably told you, a photostat of
the counseling record is not here. The record I am now looking at is
the application form.
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me, it is the form that I described in the record,
the top line of which reads, "Describe your longest and most important
jobs, including Military Service. Begin with your most recent job." It
is also the application form called E-13.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes; it is E-13.
Mr. JENNER. We will mark it Cunningham Exhibit No. 1. Now, I take it
you were at the Texas Employment Commission and Mr. Oswald came in; is
that correct? [The original of Cunningham Exhibit No. 1 is in evidence
as Cunningham Exhibit No. 1-A.]
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir. I'm on the record. I got a call from an
acquaintance of mine, as I recall it, it was from Mr. Teofil Meller,
M-e-l-l-e-r (spelling).
Mr. JENNER. That is T-e-o-f-i-l M-e-l-l-e-r (spelling)?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. You can be right--I was recalling it with an "H" in
it, but I believe that's the way he does spell it--asking me if I would
see Lee Harvey Oswald or Lee Oswald, as it was known, as they were
giving assistance to his wife and infant child, and they were saying,
"If you can help him, it will help the family and relieve us of this
burden."
Mr. JENNER. You understood, then, from Mr. Meller, that the wife, at
least, was residing with him?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. At or had previously resided there for a brief time. I
can't be certain of that.
Mr. JENNER. In any event, that the Mellers were under obligation to
assist or they had volunteered to assist?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Volunteered to assist.
Mr. JENNER. They had volunteered to assist the Oswalds or at least Mrs.
Oswald?
Mr. JENNER. Did Mr. Meller say anything to you at this time as to who
Mrs. Oswald was and who Mr. Oswald was?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. As I recall, he said that Oswald was a Fort Worth boy
who had lived in Russia and had married a Russian girl, and it was she
who was in their residence and it was their offspring.
Mr. JENNER. That is, they had a child and the child was the offspring
of this marriage?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. All right. Go ahead.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. I cannot be certain whether I gave an appointment at
that time or not, or simply said, "Well, ask him to come in and see
me"; that would be normal procedure, or usually we look up any records
that we may already have, you see, sir, and if you will excuse me, I
will see what I have on some little scratch notes here when Mr. Odum of
the FBI called me from the district office.
Mr. JENNER. You use anything you wish to refresh your recollection.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. All right, sir. I am uncertain whether the 10-9-62
dating on this application form is my handwriting or not. I know that
the 10-10-62 is.
Mr. JENNER. That's October 10, 1962?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir--that is my dating of the application card
and I would suspect that that was the first day on which I saw him, but
I could have seen him on the 9th.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Part of the application appears to be in Lee Harvey
Oswald's own handwriting or printing.
Mr. JENNER. Was this application filled out in your presence?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. That, I cannot recall, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Was it filled out as part of your interview that you then
conducted?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. That would depend whether I saw him on the 9th and the
10th, also, and I cannot be sure of that at this time.
Mr. JENNER. Does it indicate that the form at least was commenced to be
filled out on the 9th, and that in any event, most of the information
thereon was recorded on the 9th and the 10th of October 1962?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Or thereabout, because our practice is--if we have a
current date that we did not redate every day--the individual is in--on
the application form, you see.
Mr. JENNER. Would it indicate at least reasonable certainty in your own
mind that he was in your own office on the 10th day of October 1962?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir; and that I talked with him.
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. The greater part of the information concerning his
reputation and training is in my handwriting.
Mr. JENNER. And that would indicate that you obtained that from him
when you interviewed him on the 10th of October 1962?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes; it also indicates that I used one of our
counseling tools, an interest checklist.
Mr. JENNER. Explain what that is.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. It is a form which asks for quick decisions about a
person's interests, like or dislike or question about sample jobs or
work and it is the relationship of the individual's interest to groups
of jobs. It would further indicate that on the 10th of October in 1962,
I learned from him that he had taken our general aptitude test battery
in the Fort Worth office.
Mr. JENNER. Now, your general aptitude test battery is something
distinct from the short form of test you just a moment ago mentioned,
is it?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir; it is a correlated tool--the interest check
list delves into interest. The general aptitude tests battery is a
measure of aptitude.
Mr. JENNER. Now, would you tell me what the results of the inquiries as
to the interests tests were?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. There is no indication on this form, and I would not
have detailed recollection of it, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Do you have any kind of recollection, detailed or otherwise?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. To tell you the truth, unless I saw it--I saw I.C.L.
here--I would have been uncertain whether I used this counseling tool.
Mr. JENNER. Mrs. Cunningham, this is Mr. Robert Davis of the attorney
general's office of the State of Texas.
Mr. DAVIS. Thank you so much for coming today, Mrs. Cunningham.
Mr. JENNER. Do you have any recollection of the subject of his interest
tests?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. I recall that there was some in the writing area.
Mr. JENNER. This was an aptitude, a particular aptitude?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Interest, sir; I am speaking of.
Mr. JENNER. He had an interest in doing some writing?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Do you recall your inquiries of him on that subject, how
did you probe him in that connection? He had an interest, but the fact
that somebody says he has an interest in doing something, that isn't
sufficient for you, is it?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir; but usually I use the aptitude test results
along with the interests check list, and I could well have said
something--"Yes, you have the capabilities for writing, but this is in
a job area where you are not likely to get a job quickly," and I did
not probe, as you are saying, as to what he wrote about or anything of
that kind, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And you did not undertake a probing to determine whether
it was merely an interest to go on to determine whether there was an
aptitude coupled with it?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. The aptitude test indicates that there is some because
the verbal score is high and the clerical score is high, but my concern
was primarily to meet this family's need.
Mr. JENNER. The immediate need?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. The immediate need for income, and the young man's
apparent need for employment, and in the counseling service, I
attempt to do two things. First of all, to help young people to find
a vocational choice which may not be an immediate thing that they can
get into, but then, secondly, basically--applicants come to us for a
job and I use the interest check list and the general aptitude test
battery in working toward both purposes, and if the job can be in line
with their vocational choice--fine and good--but if it is an immediate
need for employment, then the emphasis is toward what can you get with
immediacy? What is available? Where are your qualifications as of today
likely to be used in the present labor market?
And, basically, that is what I did with Oswald, because as he was
presented to me, that was the immediate thing--was at least to get this
young man into work where he could support a family and himself, and I
didn't even--I would at--I would say--attempt a vocational choice with
him nor give that much time to Lee Harvey Oswald.
Also, the test results can be used in exploring what are the most
likely possibilities and can be helpful to our placement staff in
knowing at least where this individual has the potential for serving an
employer well, and that's what some of these indications at the lower
part concerning the test data indicates.
Mr. JENNER. Now, would you please interpret that for me? What the tests
indicate?
Now, you are interpreting here the tests made by the Fort Worth
District office, are you?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And you obtained those results by communicating with the
Fort Worth office?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Either on or prior to October 10, 1962?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Subsequent to 10-10-62.
Mr. JENNER. And when you got those results, what did you find in
interpreting them?
You see, the reader of this transcript will look at these forms and see
nothing but figures.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. What do they mean?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Have you identified this form?
Mr. JENNER. Yes; the form you now hold in your left hand, which
I have marked as Cunningham Exhibit No. 2, we have identified as
"Individual Aptitude Profile" and we have read into the record the
figures sequentially occurring at the bottom, beginning with figure 109
and ending with 126. [The original of Cunningham Exhibit No. 2 is in
evidence as Cunningham Exhibit No. 2-A.]
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Have you used this data here at all?
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Statman said you would be better able to interpret than
he, and he suggested that when you testified that I ask you to do that.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Very well, sir. To the right of the form we were just
speaking of----
Mr. JENNER. In the vertical column?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Under the headings "OAP".
Mr. JENNER. Meaning?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Occupational Aptitude Pattern--the numbers of the
patterns which are circled are the ones in which the applicant has made
the minimum scores or above, and are indicative of strength for various
patterns of occupations.
Mr. JENNER. Now, various patterns--aptitudes for various occupations?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir. You will see that if I copied correctly, the
entries on the face of the application card are those which are circled
on the test record, and are the ones that he had potential in those
patterns--"Jobs for occupational patterns."
Mr. JENNER. And in which did he have potential and which were indicated
as deficiencies or weaknesses, if any?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Of the 23 patterns, then being used by the employment
service, there were only three in which he did not meet the minimum
requirements.
Mr. JENNER. And those three?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Or 4, 1, 3, 5, and 20.
Mr. JENNER. You have just called off numbers that are encircled on the
exhibit "Individual Aptitude Profile"?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir; they are struck off.
Mr. JENNER. And they are stricken off for what reason?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Because the applicant's scores did not meet the
minimum standards to qualify for those occupational aptitude patterns.
Mr. JENNER. What occupational aptitude patterns are indicated by the
numbers you have read which in turn were stricken off on that exhibit?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. I'm sorry, sir; I cannot at this point answer that
because we are using a new manual with new occupational patterns and
there are a number of the detailed jobs in these patterns, and I could
not even expect to carry the whole matter in my head.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. If you like--I shall talk a little about this.
Mr. JENNER. Now, before you go to the bottom line, there are numbered
aptitude patterns that are encircled. That means that the applicant had
the minimum aptitude for each of those that are encircled?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Since you were not able to tell me what the aptitudes were
in which there was an indicated deficiency by the striking of the
number, I assume you are not able to tell me what the aptitudes were
that are encircled, in which he did score in them.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Not in detail.
Mr. JENNER. Are you able to do some interpreting?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Would you do so?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Perhaps I should talk about the next two columns to
the right here.
Mr. JENNER. You are still talking about the same exhibit?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes--note that the date on this is 10-11-62.
Mr. JENNER. That's October 11, 1962.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. And these are three specific tests which are set into
the testing program in the Dallas clerical and sales office. Comparing
the standards of those specific tests with the report as given from the
Fort Worth office, I chose three of them--the B-400, which is a general
clerical--a general office clerk is the designation of it; by BX-1002,
and a B-493.
If my recollection serves me properly at the time of this interview,
the B-493 was aptitude for entering drafting. The BX-1002 is an
experimental test for claims examiners in the insurance industry. On
each of these three specifics, he scored high.
Mr. JENNER. What led you to select those, as to this man?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Basically, it's usually done in relation to his
interests, and because of jobs available in this labor market or
possibly available. For instance, the Clerk General office cuts across
all industry, and strength in it can be used in a number of industries,
and in a number of work situations.
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. We have a lot of insurance and insurance firms here.
The claims examiner is not usually a beginning job, but it is some
indication that a young person can start in the clerical field and
perhaps move in this direction in the insurance industry.
I would assume that there was a relationship to some discussion of
this experience and training in the Military Corps in the electronics
and radar that suggests the drafting or because I knew of some
possibilities in that area.
I see nothing in what I have recorded about the high school training
which would so indicate that.
Mr. JENNER. All of these records that have been placed before you,
being three in number, do you interpret them indicating anything other
than--I do not mean to be deprecatory here, that this man had about a
high school education.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Sir, I accepted his statement that at some time and
some place, usually when the young man is in the armed services, he
had taken the high school equivalency test and had passed it. There
is nothing from the aptitude scores that would lead me to believe
otherwise. In fact, there are some things in it that would tend to say
that he could do college work.
Mr. JENNER. Indicate that, please--what leads you to say that?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Well, the "G" score, which is a general ability and
not an IQ score, is above 100. We have certain standards that we carry
in the back of our head that that says--yes.
Mr. JENNER. It says--yes--what?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. College capabilities.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Other factors being equal, of course. The verbal is
quite high--this is one of the learning tools, exact knowledge of words
and word meanings.
Mr. JENNER. And his score in that connection was?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. 127.
Mr. JENNER. You say this is quite high--what is an average?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. We are told that about 50 percent of the people
who take this test score 100 and below, and the other 50 percent of
necessity 100 and above--the break point is. We are warned against,
however, looking at any one of these items and considering it alone,
except as we were talking of possibility for college training
altogether.
Mr. JENNER. His score in the first category you have mentioned was what?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. 109.
Mr. JENNER. That is close to the minimum?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Explain that.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. You said "the minimum"?
Mr. JENNER. The minimum necessary--is there a minimum standard?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. A necessary for what, of course, is the immediate
question.
Mr. JENNER. Well, for you to decide, for example, "Well, this man does
have capability for college study."
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. I have not reviewed these figures that are in our
manuals recently, but if I recall correctly, 100 is thought sufficient
to do a junior college or possibly in some--a 4-year course; that about
125 is required on the "G" score for professional schools, and 110 is
quite good for finishing a 4-year college. As you see, this score is
close to that, and we consider the test only about 15 percent of the
total in making decisions about vocation and it is not the biggest
factor.
Mr. JENNER. Off the record a minute.
(Discussion between Counsel Jenner and the witness, Mrs. Cunningham,
off the record.)
Mr. JENNER. Now, I think we had better be on the record on this.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. None of our tests are personality tests.
Mr. JENNER. You see, I want you to tell me what these are, and if I
misinterpret them, I want you to correct me. It is important that we
know what testing was done and that we don't misinterpret it ourselves.
Now, is any of this a personality test?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir; none whatsoever. It is aptitude--it is an
interest checklist and I am an employment counselor only, and that
is why you got part of the answers from me a while ago, was that I
was limiting it to that segment of counseling which presumably is my
specialty, and for which I am paid by the Texas Employment Commission.
In general, I would say that the tests indicate potential for quite
a broad number of jobs--certainly in the semiskilled and skilled
occupations.
Mr. JENNER. Would these be a potential with training?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir. Certainly I have indicated the areas in the
clerical field by the tests that I selected and most of the drafting
jobs, of course, are semiprofessional. I did not apparently think that
these others were important at the time or I would have given other
classifications.
Mr. JENNER. Other classification tests?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir; I'm sorry--I am throwing you on terminology.
This indicates where the application is held.
Mr. JENNER. Would you tell us what you mean by "this"?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. The words "Routine Clerical Work--1-X4.9" is a
classification of the application in the area where the application
will be held by the placement interviewers for referral on jobs.
Mr. JENNER. This represents an entry based on your judgment in
interviewing?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And that is your personal entry and your handwriting?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And what does that job classification mean and what degree
of aptitude, if any, does it indicate?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. On the entry level.
Mr. JENNER. Just the entry level?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Into routine clerical work--it covers a lot of jobs
and a lot of work circumstances.
Mr. JENNER. Now, I ask you this--there is a surface inconsistency
between that particular classification you gave him and your testimony
with respect to his capabilities to do college work. I say there is a
surface inconsistency, would you explain that?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir. To enter professional jobs, usually the
employers require more training or experience in the area of the
profession. The availability in this labor market of clerical jobs
to a newcomer into the labor market area is very much greater and,
therefore, the job opportunities for this young man in a clerical entry
job would be much brighter than in an entry for a professional job.
Mr. JENNER. So, I take it, then, in that classification as dictated by
your knowledge of the available labor market, this was an area which
at the time seemed to afford greater opportunity for placement of this
young man immediately.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Having in mind the information related to you by Mr.
Meller, that there was dire need for financial assistance here.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And the other aptitudes you recorded on his ability you
thought to do college work--those are not inconsistent with the
classification you gave when you considered the whole problem that was
facing you at the immediate time.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Then I was talking about the potential only for the
future, he had not even started college--a college training, by the
record as I was giving it, sir, and because there is nothing as
presented in the work history when I first worked with him which would
indicate that he had ever worked at a professional or semiprofessional
level that would give strength to a professional classification, and
remembering, too, that the aptitude test is really only about 15
percent of the decision as to where this individual shall seek as of
this time in this place----
Mr. JENNER. The other factors being for one instance--one, the ready
labor market, and two, the immediate need, if there is an absolute
immediate need, and what other factors?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Previous work experience--a good work record within
the present labor market can be a big factor. Any employer, as you
well know, would much prefer to pick up the phone and call for a
reference than to write to Podunk and maybe get a communication and
maybe not, and they don't know really what that firm is or with whom he
is communicating, and I would say in general, and this is a personal
judgment, that the incoming person to a labor market has to take the
lower pay, the less desirable job, until he gets a work record in the
community, unless he is highly qualified and in one of the shortage
occupations.
Mr. JENNER. And from your visit with this young man, he had not much of
a work record, do I fairly state that?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. The work record when he came to me was limited in
length of time as indicated on the application. It was mixed, as far
as occupation was concerned in the semiskilled, in the sales, in the
clerical.
Mr. JENNER. That is, he had a semimixed work record involving one or
more of the three major groups you have now mentioned.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Your answer was "Yes"--when you nod your head, we can't get
it on the record.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. I thought I had said it was broken and limited, so,
"Yes" is the answer.
Mr. JENNER. All right, you go right ahead, you are doing fine.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Please note that in the work record there is an
entry subsequent to when he was counseled, and that is in the
semiprofessional or professional, if anyone would look at it.
Mr. JENNER. You say "subsequent," does that mean a later time or
subsequently during the course of the interview you had with him?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir; at a later time.
Mr. JENNER. When?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. As indicated on the record it is 4 months to July of
1963 in photography.
Mr. JENNER. And he had the experience for that length of time somewhere?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. It indicates that it was in New Orleans with William
B. Reily Co.
Mr. JENNER. And he reported that as having been experienced in what
connection?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Looking at the subsequent dating of the application
card, it would appear that this was recorded in October 1963.
Mr. JENNER. Now, that is important and I am interested in that. In
October 1963, which was a year subsequent to your interview, which had
commenced at least on October 10, 1962, does it appear from those forms
that he again returned to the Dallas office to make a work application?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And did you again counsel with or see him?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir. I did not know until after the President's
assassination that he had recontacted the office after these October
1962 interviews of which we have been talking.
Mr. JENNER. Is there a record on any one of those exhibits of the
number of applications that he made and when those applications were
made in the sense of his personal appearance for the application? You
have mentioned one, that is your own, that was generated by Mr. Meller?
Do your initials appear there, or do you just happen to recall that? Is
there something on the form in the way of your initials or signature
that indicates to you that you did that?
There appears on the reverse side of the form, E-13, (Cunningham
Exhibit No. 1) in the handwriting, the word "Cunningham." Is that in
your handwriting?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. There appears above it, and also is a signature--are you
familiar with that signature?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Whose is it?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. It is of a counselor, at least presently a counselor,
in the industrial office.
Mr. JENNER. Of the Texas Employment Commission?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Of the Texas Employment Commission in Dallas.
Mr. JENNER. Is there any significance in the fact that his name appears
above yours or yours below his?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. All right, tell us about it.
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. This brings to mind that in seeking the records for
this applicant, because--I guess the Mellers must have said "He has
already been down to the Texas Employment Commission office and has not
gotten a job," then, I started trying to find the records, so I did
not duplicate, and I am uncertain whether this is the record that Mr.
Brooks transmitted to our office or not.
Mr. JENNER. Who is Mr. Brooks?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. The counselor in the industrial office.
Mr. JENNER. Here in Dallas?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Here in Dallas.
Mr. JENNER. And you are in what office here in Dallas?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Clerical and sales.
Mr. JENNER. So that your counseling and your examination is directed
primarily to clerical and sales?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Sir, I would not agree fully with that. We take the
public as it comes to our door and it is entirely possible for me to
have an applicant arrive where I could decide that he was better served
in another office and would transmit records and suggest that the
applicant call at that office. In the Dallas organization we have our
offices organized around occupations basically, and in our particular
building, as you may have been told, we have a professional office and
the clerical and sales office. We also have an industrial office.
Mr. JENNER. In the same building?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir; at 1206 Ross Street, and this original
application card could have come from there to our files.
Mr. JENNER. And is the fact that your signature appears under Mr.
Brooks' signature indicative of that likelihood?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir; by location it would be. These comments that
are above Mr. Brooks' are in my writing.
Mr. JENNER. They are?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And those comments are under the classification headed
or entitled, "Applicant's characteristics--well groomed and spoken.
Business suit. Alert replies. Expresses self extremely well." That's in
your handwriting?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And you made that record after you had interviewed Mr.
Oswald?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Perhaps after at least the second interview when I had
had the tests results. Usually, I try to hold it until I more or less
synchronize the information that I get.
Mr. JENNER. In any event, that records your reaction of him at that
time? After you had the interview or interviews with him?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Now, above that, under the heading, "Conditions affecting
employment," there appears--would you read each line, and as you read
it, is that in your handwriting?