Mr. RANKIN. Apparently both of those were enclosed with a letter, were
they?
Mr. LEE. Evidently, yes. To the best of my recollection, they would be.
As I say, all of these details--I can't be positive of every little
thing, because it's been such a time and so much has transpired in
between.
Mr. RANKIN. Exhibit No. 5 is apparently a letter of August 1 from Lee
Harvey Oswald. Do you recall that?
Mr. LEE. There was a couple of letters here. I don't know whether it
was these two, Exhibits 4 and 5, but it's hard for me to determine,
they came so close together. They came, you know, almost on top of
each other, to the best of my recollection, that I don't know which
one--only by studying the text can you halfway determine which came
first. I remember vaguely receiving these communications in this order.
You see here, another case where I mentioned, and I would recommend
not trying to get an office to start off with, particularly the--what
was being espoused by our organization wouldn't be the most popular
thing in the area of New Orleans, Louisiana, and I would automatically,
myself, personally, from my own experience, would say to anybody, "You
know, you better be way ahead before you start something like that,"
and certainly he has gone ahead against all of that recommendation from
everybody else. But to the best of my recollection, these letters were
very close together, about the same time, the same issue.
Mr. RANKIN. That was one of the letters, Exhibit No. 5, that you
supplied the FBI at the time?
Mr. LEE. Yes.
(Document marked Lee Exhibit No. 6.)
Mr. RANKIN. Your Exhibit No. 6, which apparently is composed of a
letter and an affidavit in regard to a charge against Lee Harvey
Oswald, and a clipping in regard to the disposition of that charge, do
you recall that correspondence and the attachments?
Mr. LEE. Yes, I have a recollection of this. I don't think the
clipping--as a matter of fact, I seem to remember that this clipping
was not attached to a piece of paper, though. I think this may have
been attached since I submitted it. That is the only difference I can
see.
Mr. RANKIN. Apparently since you furnished the letter, Exhibit 6, and
the copy of the charge against Lee Harvey Oswald and the clipping, the
clipping has been stapled to a piece of paper?
Mr. LEE. Yes. The reason I say that is simply because I never
paper-clip things; I always rubber cement them.
(Document marked Lee Exhibit No. 7.)
Mr. RANKIN. I hand you Exhibit 7, which consists of two pages of a
letter dated August 17, and an envelope attached by a clip, and ask
you if that exhibit in that form was one you received from Lee Harvey
Oswald and furnished to the Bureau as you described?
Mr. LEE. I believe so; yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Throughout this period of time you had no oral or personal
telephone conversations with Lee Harvey Oswald, did you?
Mr. LEE. To the best of my knowledge, to the very best of my knowledge,
I can't ever remember speaking to this person. The only communications
I can recall or having heard of him was through these series of
letters, and I have subsequently seen photographs, and as a matter of
fact I was another one of the millions of TV witnesses, and I don't
recall ever having seen the man or having heard his voice. The only
thing I ever had at all, that I can ever remember, are purely these
communications. He is a complete stranger to me outside of this, and
even within the framework of this he wasn't very much more than a
stranger.
(Documents marked Lee Exhibits Nos. 8A through 8C.)
Mr. RANKIN. I hand you Exhibits 8A, B and C, respectively, which appear
to be change of address cards.
Mr. LEE. Yes, these are post office cards. I have a recollection of
receiving these. Of course we always got scads of these too, but this
was a very normal thing. Usually people send these in with changes of
address, people who subscribe to our publications and things. Do you
want me to initial those?
Mr. RANKIN. Would you initial those?
(Witness complies.)
(Document marked Lee Exhibit No. 9.)
Mr. RANKIN. I hand you Exhibit 9 and ask you if you recall having seen
that before?
Mr. LEE. It seems like there should be a letter to go with it. I
believe that each of the things that I turned in, where it was
available, there was an envelope with the letter. I don't recall that I
turned in any isolated envelope that wasn't with a letter.
Mr. FAULKNER. This has a postmark, New Orleans, 4 Aug. 1963.
Mr. RANKIN. I might ask you, Mr. Lee, if that envelope, Exhibit 9,
might be connected with the Exhibit 5.
Mr. LEE. Well, now, it's possible. The letter is dated August 1, and
the thing is postmarked PM, August 4. I assume--it looks very much like
it would fit in there, the envelope and paper match up, and there is no
difference in the ink, the pen used, from what I can see. I do remember
specifically that when I turned over the material to the Federal agents
I did--I don't recall at any time having a loose envelope, it was with
one of the letters.
Mr. RANKIN. It is apparently closer to any of the letters timewise.
Mr. LEE. It is very likely that it goes with this letter, and from my
own experience there is a date discrepancy of a couple of days there,
but I have carried a letter around in my pocket for a couple of days,
too, and I can very well assume that somebody else would do the same.
Mr. RANKIN. On the back of Exhibit 7 there is a penciled number. Does
that have anything to do with your organization?
Mr. LEE. I haven't the faintest idea what this thing is, sir. There is
one on here too. I have never seen this before. It is certainly not my
hand on these things, and I very much--in fact I am pretty positive
that this material has been added to these letters since I turned these
things into the Federal agents. It is probably a filing code number or
something or other used by the Federal agents.
Mr. RANKIN. The FBI, yes.
Mr. LEE. It is not in my hand, and it certainly doesn't look like--in
fact I remember when I made copies of these things I was looking at
both sides of the papers to make sure that I had a complete copy when I
made the copy of these letters for my own personal file on the issue,
and these things were not on. I am sure that these things were not on
them when I turned them in.
Mr. RANKIN. By "these things" you mean those pencil marks on the back?
Mr. LEE. The penciled digits on the back of the letters.
Mr. RANKIN. Such as on Exhibit 7 that I just referred you to, the mark
"62-109060-1845"?
Mr. LEE. Yes, those things must have been added after I turned them in.
Mr. RANKIN. Mr. Lee, I asked you about the circling of the figure 50
and the notation "Sent 4/19/63" on Exhibit 1. As I recall, you said you
were out traveling over the country at that time, and you knew you were
not in the office so as to send that literature. Do you have any idea
what 50 copies were sent?
Mr. LEE. Well, this is back in April of 1963, and he asks, I quote,
"I now ask for 40 or 50," and the circle is around 50, and this, the
normal procedure had always been to note it. When the circle was made
around the 50, I just assume, and I very much believe, that it was
50 items that were sent. Now, we have printed various leaflets, and
this is what was sent, these leaflets, such as, you know, calling for
the end of hostile relations, and so forth, between the Government
of the United States and the Government of Cuba, which we used for
distribution at various public affairs and public places.
Mr. RANKIN. We had information from the Bureau that you had said that
notation was by you and that you sent the material. Is that incorrect?
Mr. LEE. Well, I can't see how it could possibly be when I wasn't in
the area at the time. The 19th of April I was somewhere on the west
coast, I was somewhere between Los Angeles and Seattle, Washington.
I arrived on the west coast, I believe, on April the 1st or 2d of
1963, and I didn't return until the first week of May of 1963, and the
last point of departure to New York was from, I believe, the City of
Chicago. I was out on the west coast and the west and midwest during
that period of time, and I wasn't there. Now, I assume that at some
point along the line in my communications I had sent this gentleman
some material, which we always had in stock. This was part of our
activity, to print up leaflets and pamphlets and translations of
various things and provide them to the general public.
But this particular item, assuming that all these dates are correct,
I can't possibly have sent it. But the point is that I would
authorize--to me it was a standard policy that if anybody asked for
anything that we had, we would give it to them, and that is the best I
can say. But as for myself, at that particular date, I was not in the
New York area. I was very far away at that particular time. In fact I
was definitely on the west coast of the United States at that time.
Mr. RANKIN. So if they recorded that you said that, there was some
error?
Mr. LEE. There was an error somewhere. Maybe they got confused in the
conversation over maybe something else, some other communication that I
mentioned, that I had felt that I had replied to, communications, and
sent him stuff like the constitution and bylaws. Maybe that might have
got confused.
Mr. RANKIN. Was there any connection with you or your organization or
anyone from your organization that you know of with the acts of Lee
Harvey Oswald in connection with the assassination of the President?
Mr. LEE. With myself or organizationally, to the best of my knowledge,
no; nor have I heard or know of any other person related to the
organization in any way. Definitely there would be no connection
between the act--acts of Lee Harvey Oswald. Whether or not he did
anything in relation to the assassination, I don't know. As I
understood, this is what is trying to be determined, and so forth,
with this hearing. But whether he did or did not in relation, we had
no--nothing to do with this. In fact I would feel very free to say
that this particular act by anybody would be the worst possible thing
that we could conceive of. Our idea was certainly not to engage in any
activities of violence or illegal actions of any kind. We try very
much to maintain a character of nonviolent participation in community
affairs. In fact we have organizationally held, in which I directed and
participated, demonstrations in which we made a very firm commitment to
peaceful assembly and demonstration, and even when attacked physically
did not respond to the attack but withheld and conducted ourselves
peacefully and legally.
Mr. RANKIN. Was Lee Harvey Oswald a member of your organization?
Mr. LEE. I have no record of this. You see, we never kept a membership
file. We never at any time maintained a membership file. If somebody
asked to join the organization, we made out a membership card for them
and the card was sent to the person, but there was no duplicate and
there was no special recording of it; it was just a simple formality,
and we just sent them the card. And so there is no way that I can tell
for sure that he was or he wasn't, because we never did maintain a file
in this direction.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall anything about his being a member, as far as
your recollection?
Mr. LEE. I am not sure on that score. I mean I don't know. It is
entirely possible. It is entirely possible. But I can't say that I
recall, you know, filling out a card for him. It is entirely possible.
I may very well have. But as far as saying absolutely I remember,
no, I don't, I can't say that, because I really don't remember, but
I will say it is entirely possible. In fact I would assume from the
communications--I would assume from the communications which were
conducted with this gentleman that it is very likely that he asked to
join, and our membership was the type of thing where it was open to
anybody who asked to become a member, was given membership. We had no
restrictions on membership. In fact we had one of the policy statements
of the organization, its constitution and bylaws, was that it was open
to all regardless of race, creed, color, religion, national origin or
political opinion. It was open to anybody, anybody at all could join,
and from the communications, since I was writing to him in connection
with--he was asking if he could start a chapter, well, I can't
conceive of my writing to a nonmember in the direction of starting a
chapter. It is very--I assume that he must have at some point along
the line asked to join as a member and met the simple requirements of
sending in a membership fee, which was really a subscription to any
of our publications, and I assume that he must have been, otherwise
I can't quite conceive of my having written to him about membership,
starting a chapter, replying to such a question without having--the
letters--evidently there would have been some communication saying,
well, "You can't do it unless you join," and from the letters you
showed me, which I assume are correct, he must have already at some
point in the communications decided to join the organization.
Mr. RANKIN. I call your attention to the first paragraph, Mr. Lee, of
Exhibit No. 2.
Mr. LEE. Oh, yes; sure, here it is, "I am requesting formal membership
in your organizations." Well, evidently at this point, at the end of
May, 1963, he requested formal--I don't--let's see, is there a note in
here of having sent him--well, anyhow, assuming that accompanying this
letter there was----
Mr. RANKIN. Let me call your attention to Exhibit 3, and there is in
the first paragraph there----
Mr. LEE. Oh, yes; evidently he did join, yes. I assumed that it was so,
because I can't conceive of having written him about a chapter unless
he had joined. One doesn't organizationally ask people to help the
organization who are not members.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know of any combination, conspiracy or common action
of any kind that worked with Lee Harvey Oswald in connection with his
acts concerning the assassination of President Kennedy?
Mr. LEE. I have no knowledge of any such thing.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know of any members of Fair Play for Cuba Committee
in New Orleans that were working with Lee Harvey Oswald in connection
with anything he did there for the committee?
Mr. LEE. No; I have no recollection of any such thing. In fact all I
can recall is that the man communicated I think to me that somehow in
these letters that he had nobody and that he was completely alone,
and that in fact I think one of the letters mentioned how he was out
somewhere all alone and that he had no--nobody at all, nobody working
with him or through him or for him or around him or anything else.
He gave me the impression that he was completely isolated in his
community, which became obvious to me from his actions which would
certainly isolate him in his community. I could see very well how he
would be.
Mr. RANKIN. I call your attention to Exhibit 7 and the paragraph in
which he says he was working with three people in the demonstration. He
doesn't purport to say they are members.
Mr. LEE. Demonstration of three. I wonder if he was one of the three,
or who it was. Somewhere in some of these letters, I don't know
where--I could check back--I got the indication that he had no support
and that he was completely isolated. Now, what this business of the
three people is, I have no idea. He doesn't seem to mention anything
more about this, and I don't even know whether he was one of the three
or whether there were three besides him or what.
Mr. RANKIN. I call your attention to Exhibit 5, in which he refers
to the fact that he was attacked during one of the demonstrations,
and then the following page of that Exhibit 5, that robbed him of any
associates.
Mr. LEE. "... the support I had, leaving me alone." Yes, I guess this
is what I had in mind, "This incident robbed me of what support I had,
leaving me alone." Now, what support he had, I don't know.
If I recall correctly, at this incident which he mentions here, he had
sent me the things from his court, the arrest things, and the only
people that are mentioned in that are Oswald and the people who he
claims attacked him, and that is the only people, evidently, according
to the court records and the police, you know, who the police brought
charges on. There didn't seem to be anybody involved but this Lee
Harvey Oswald and the Cuban exiles who he became involved in a fracas
with down there. So I don't know how much validity--I really don't know
how much validity there is in these other people existing, whether they
did or not.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you know of any members of the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee in Dallas?
Mr. LEE. As I said, I never kept a membership file and I don't recall
who is a member and who wouldn't be a member. I know we received many
communications requesting literature of various types and things like
that from all over the country, and I don't know of any state of the
union which has not been sent some material at some time during the
3-1/2-year history of the organization. I would assume that somewhere,
at some time, in Texas some people wrote in and received something,
some communication, but as far as doing anything particularly about
Dallas, no. The only thing I know about Dallas is what I read in the
papers, which doesn't tell me too much.
Mr. RANKIN. And that same situation about whether there were any
members of the committee in New Orleans would be true, would it?
Mr. LEE. Well, it is like I say. As for membership, this is an almost
impossible situation in view of the fact that we didn't conduct a
membership file or a duplicate membership card system and we just
had mailing lists. In fact the mailing lists--even the mailing lists
wouldn't tell very much, if anything, and that was just a case, anybody
who thought somebody should receive a communication gave the name of
somebody, in fact for now deceased Governor Lehman was on that list,
Senators and Congressmen were placed on the mailing list, everybody
and his brother who we thought should be--well, we thought some reason
should receive the material which we sent out, we just sent material.
It could be anybody. And like I say, stuff went to all over the
country, just automatically, just did large mailings to every place
we could think of, dream of or hope for in any of our activities of
mailing.
But as far as particularly--there was never an active organization of
the committee in these areas. We have had in the past--there was in
existence in the committee a series of chapters, committee chapters,
in various parts of the country, but there were never any chapters or
active participation on a local level, to my knowledge, in either Texas
or Louisiana at any time during the entire history of the organization.
Mr. RANKIN. Is there any information, evidence or knowledge that you
haven't given us that would bear upon this assassination of President
Kennedy, that might help the Commission?
Mr. LEE. No, sir; I have no information whatsoever. I have more than
personal, more than just curiosity, and I hope very much to know the
truth about this incident and hope very much that the truth is known,
particularly for my own personal reasons, as well as any other reasons,
because having been practically a victim of very serious slander in
this direction, both by individuals and by elements of the press and
various periodicals, I have very serious concern about developing
the truth. I have been threatened. People have tried to break into
my home, somehow connecting myself and my organizational activities,
quite falsely, with the assassination--I would like to see the truth
come up, because I am quite sure that any investigation will show that
this was not true, that I didn't have any part of this. I am as much
interested and probably more interested in my own way in having the
facts presented than many of the average people on the street. I have a
personal involvement in this.
Mr. RANKIN. That is all.
Mr. Faulkner, do you have anything?
Mr. FAULKNER. I was just going to ask Mr. Lee one question with regard
to Exhibit No. 1, where the date in the lower right-hand corner appears
reading, "Sent 4/19/63" in his handwriting.
Mr. LEE. Well, you see, the thing is, I don't think it is, because I
don't see how I could have written that if I wasn't there. That's the
whole thing. But it could be--like I said, that office was an open
door. Everybody used to come and go, and people would come in and say,
"I've got twenty minutes"--a kid from school, some kid would come in
and say, "I've got 20 minutes between classes. Can I do something to
help you?" And somebody would say, "Yes, wrap that package", and they
would be off 20 minutes later. So it could be anybody in the world.
Or perhaps the only possibility is when I returned, perhaps somebody
mentioned that it was taken care of, and I wrote it after my return.
But certainly not at that time, because I wasn't even present.
Mr. RANKIN. Is it satisfactory, Mr. Lee, if we finally obtain the
originals from the Bureau and send them to you of these Exhibits 3 and
3-A, which purport to be copies or photocopies of your correspondence,
and on your verification substitute those for those copies?