Proceedings
Third National Conference
Workmen's Compensation For
Industrial Accidents
Chicago, June 10-11, 1910
Including
A Brief Report of
The Second National Conference
Washington, January 20, 1910
Copies may be had at fifty cents each from
JOHN B. ANDREWS, _Assistant Secretary_,
Metropolitan Tower, New York City.
GENERAL OFFICERS.
_Chairman_ CHARLES P. NEILL
Commissioner United States Bureau of Labor
_Vice-Chairman_ CHARLES MCCARTHY
Chief Wisconsin Legislative Reference Library
_Treasurer_ HENRY W. FARNAM
Yale University
_Secretary_ H. V. MERCER
Chairman Minnesota Employees Compensation Commission
_Assistant Secretary_ JOHN B. ANDREWS
Secretary American Association for Labor Legislation
EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE.
(In Addition to the General Officers).
HENRY R. SEAGER, _Chairman_,
Vice-Chairman, New York Commission
WILLIAM E. MCEWEN,
Member Minnesota Commission
A. W. SANBORN,
Chairman Wisconsin Commission
EDWIN R. WRIGHT,
Secretary Illinois Commission
JAMES A. LOWELL,
Chairman Massachusetts Commission
WILLIAM B. DICKSON,
Chairman New Jersey Commission
WILLIAM J. ROHR,
Chairman Ohio Commission
HENRY W. BULLOCK,
Delegate from Indiana
JAMES V. BARRY,
Delegate from Michigan
MILES M. DAWSON,
Member-at-large
Proceedings
Third National Conference
Workmen's Compensation For
Industrial Accidents
Chicago, June 10-11, 1910
Including
A Brief Report of
The Second National Conference
Washington, January 20, 1910
CONTENTS
PAGE.
I. INTRODUCTORY NOTE, INCLUDING BY-LAWS 3
II. PROGRAM 5-6
III. PROCEEDINGS 7
1. Friday Forenoon Session, June 10 10
2. Friday Afternoon Session, June 10 39
(1) "Worker's Compensation Code," An Outline for Discussion 40
3. Saturday Forenoon Session, June 11 82
APPENDIX,--Brief Report of Washington Conference, January 20, 1910 124
INDEX 136
Princeton University Press
Princeton, N. J.
INTRODUCTORY NOTE.
The National Conference on Workmen's Compensation for Industrial
Accidents was organized at Atlantic City, July 29-31, 1909. The
second meeting was held in Washington, January 20, 1910. The third
meeting, June 10-11, 1910, was in Chicago. The nature of the
Conference is clearly set forth as follows:
BY-LAWS.
1. The name of this organization shall be the National
Conference on Workmen's Compensation for Industrial Accidents.
2. Its purpose shall be to bring together the members of
the commissions and committees of the various States and of
the National Government, representatives to be appointed by
the governors of the different States, and other interested
citizens, to discuss plans of workmen's compensation and
insurance for industrial accidents.
3. Its officers shall be a chairman, a vice-chairman, a
secretary, an assistant secretary and a treasurer, to be
elected annually and to hold office until their successors
shall have been elected.
4. The business of the organization shall be conducted by an
executive committee, consisting of the officers and of other
members, said committee to represent at least ten different
States.
5. The voting members of the Conference shall be the members,
secretaries and counsels of all State Commissions or committees
on the subject, one or more representatives to be appointed by
the governors of different States, and ten members at large to
be elected at any regular meeting of the Conference.
6. Individuals and associations of individuals may be
admitted as associate members, and as such, be entitled to
the privileges of the floor and to receive the publication of
the Conference upon the payment of $2.00 per annum for each
such individual member, and $25.00 per annum for each such
association.
7. No resolution committing the Conference to any fixed
program, policy or principle, shall be deemed in order at any
of its meetings, except upon unanimous vote.
8. The funds of the Conference shall be derived from
contributions from the commissions and committees on the
subject, and from voluntary subscriptions.
The proceedings of the Atlantic City Conference are published in a
volume of 340 pages, and copies may be had, at fifty cents each,
from H. V. Mercer, of Minneapolis. The proceedings of the Chicago
Conference (including as an Appendix on pages 124-135 a brief report
of the Washington Conference, the proceedings of which have not been
printed _in extenso_), may be had at fifty cents a copy by addressing
John B. Andrews, Metropolitan Tower, New York City.
PROGRAM
Third National Conference on Industrial Accidents and Workmen's
Compensation
Auditorium Hotel, Chicago
June 10-11, 1910
_Chairman_ CHARLES P. NEILL
Commissioner United States Bureau of Labor
_Secretary_ H. V. MERCER
Chairman Minnesota Employees' Compensation Commission
_Assistant Secretary_ JOHN B. ANDREWS
Secretary American Association for Labor Legislation
FRIDAY FORENOON SESSION, 9:30
BRIEF REPORTS FROM STATE COMMISSIONS
_Minnesota_: H. V. Mercer, William E. McEwen, George M. Gillette.
_Wisconsin_: A. W. Sanborn, E. T. Fairchild, John J. Blaine, Wallace
Ingalls, C. B. Culbertson, Walter D. Egan, George G. Brew.
_New York_: J. Mayhew Wainwright, Joseph P. Cotton, Jr., Henry
R. Seager, Crystal Eastman, Howard R. Bayne, Frank C. Platt,
George A. Voss, Cyrus W. Phillips, Edward D. Jackson, Alfred D.
Lowe, Frank B. Thorn, Otto M. Eidlitz, John Mitchell, George W.
Smith.
_Illinois_: Ira G. Rawn, E. T. Bent, Robert E. Conway, P. A.
Peterson, Charles Piez, Mason B. Starring, M. J. Boyle, Patrick
Ladd Carr, John Flora, George Golden, Daniel J. Gorman, Edwin R.
Wright.
_New Jersey_: William D. Dickson, J. William Clark, Samuel Botterill,
John T. Cosgrove, Harry D. Leavitt, Walter E. Edge.
_Massachusetts_: James A. Lowell, Amos T. Saunders, Magnus W.
Alexander, Henry Howard, Joseph A. Parks.
_Ohio_: (Members to be appointed by the Governor.)
GENERAL DISCUSSION "Workers' Compensation Code"
(Outline for Discussion)
Representatives of the Federal Government, Members of State
Commissions, Delegates designated by Governors of States,
Representatives of Manufacturers' Associations and Trade
Unions, Insurance Companies, Russell Sage Foundation and
Association for Labor Legislation, and other interested
organizations and individuals.
FRIDAY AFTERNOON SESSION, 2:00
WORKERS' COMPENSATION CODE (Discussion continued).
SATURDAY FORENOON SESSION, 9:30
SPECIAL DISCUSSION:
Classification of Hazardous Employments.
Repeal of Common Law and Statutory Remedies.
Contract vs. Absolute Liability.
Limited Compensation vs. Pension Plan.
Court Administration vs. Boards of Arbitration.
PROCEEDINGS
Third National Conference
Workmen's Compensation For Industrial Accidents
Chicago, June 10-11, 1910
The third meeting of the National Conference on Workmen's
Compensation for Industrial Accidents brought together from widely
separated parts of the United States a large number of those who
represent the serious thought of the country on this most urgent
question. Members of State Commissions in Minnesota, Wisconsin,
Illinois, New York and Massachusetts were present and submitted
reports. Thirty-eight official delegates were appointed by the
governors of States, and, in addition, representatives were present
from manufacturers' associations, trade unions, insurance companies,
the Russell Sage Foundation, the Association for Labor Legislation,
and other interested organizations. Many individuals from the shops,
the offices and the universities, attended the various sessions and
listened to the arguments of the speakers or participated in the
discussions.
Among those present who took an active interest in the meetings were:
Jane Addams, Hull House, Chicago; T. W. Allinson, Henry Booth House,
Chicago; W. A. Allport, Member Illinois Commission on Occupational
Diseases and State Delegate; L. A. Anderson, State Insurance Actuary,
Madison, Wis.; John B. Andrews, Secretary American Association for
Labor Legislation, New York City.
James V. Barry, State Delegate from Michigan; William P. Belden,
Cleveland Cliffs Iron Company, Mich.; E. T. Bent, Member Illinois
Commission; John J. Blaine, Member of Wisconsin Commission and
State Delegate; M. J. Boyle, Member of Illinois Commission; Frank
Buchanan, Structural Iron Workers' Union, Chicago; Henry W. Bullock,
representing Indiana State Federation of Labor.
Patrick Ladd Carr, Member Illinois Commission; Robert E. Conway,
Member Illinois Commission; Clarence B. Culbertson, Member Wisconsin
Commission and State Delegate.
Edgar T. Davies, Chief Factory Inspector of Illinois and State
Delegate; Miles M. Dawson, Insurance Actuary, New York City; F. S.
Deibler, Northwestern University, Evanston, Ill.; M. M. Duncan, State
Delegate from Michigan.
Crystal Eastman, Secretary and Member New York Commission; Herman L.
Ekern, Deputy Commissioner of Insurance, Wisconsin.
Henry W. Farnam, President American Association for Labor
Legislation, New Haven, Conn.; John Flora, Member Illinois
Commission; Lee K. Frankel, Metropolitan Life Insurance Company, New
York City; Ernst Freund, University of Chicago and President Illinois
Branch A. A. L. L.
John H. Gray, University of Minnesota and President of Minnesota
Branch, A. A. L. L.; John M. Glenn, Director Russell Sage Foundation,
New York City; George Golden, Member Illinois Commission; Daniel J.
Gorman, Member Illinois Commission.
Walter D. Haines, Member Illinois Commission on Occupational Diseases
and State Delegate; Alice Hamilton, Expert Investigator Illinois
Commission on Occupational Diseases; Samuel A. Harper, Attorney
Illinois Commission; Leonard W. Hatch, Statistician, New York State
Department of Labor; Charles R. Henderson, Secretary Illinois
Commission on Occupational Diseases and State Delegate; J. C. A.
Hiller, Missouri Commissioner of Labor and State Delegate; Frederick
L. Hoffman, Statistician Prudential Insurance Company, Newark, New
Jersey.
Wallace Ingalls, Member Wisconsin Commission and State Delegate.
Sherman Kingsley, United Charities, Chicago.
Thomas F. Lane, Missouri State Delegate; Julia Lathrop, Director
Chicago School of Civics; James A. Lowell, Chairman Massachusetts
Commission.
Charles McCarthy, Chief Wisconsin Legislative Reference Library;
Edwin M. McKinney, Chicago; Ruben McKitrick, University of Wisconsin;
Floyd R. Mechem, University of Chicago; H. V. Mercer, Chairman
Minnesota Commission and State Delegate; H. E. Miles, National
Manufacturers' Association and Racine-Sattley Company, Racine, Wis.;
John Mitchell, Member New York Commission; William H. Moulton,
Sociological Department, Cleveland Cliffs Iron Company, Mich.
Cecil Clare North, De Pauw University, Indiana.
Irene Osgood, Assistant Secretary American Association for Labor
Legislation, New York City.
Joseph A. Parks, Member Massachusetts Commission; P. A. Peterson,
Member Illinois Commission; Charles Piez, Member Illinois Commission;
Ralph F. Potter, Attorney Ocean Accident and Guarantee Corporation,
Chicago.
Samuel Rabinovitch, Milwaukee Relief Society; G. A. Ranney,
International Harvester Company, Chicago; Benjamin Rastall,
University of Wisconsin; A. Duncan Reid, Ocean Accident and Guarantee
Corporation, New York; C. T. Graham Rogers, Medical Inspector New
York Department of Labor; David Ross, Secretary Illinois State Bureau
of Labor.
Amos T. Saunders, Member Massachusetts Commission; A. W. Sanborn,
Chairman Wisconsin Commission and State Delegate; Ferd. C.
Schwedtman, National Association of Manufacturers, St. Louis; Henry
R. Seager, Member New York Commission and President of the New York
Branch, A. A. L. L.; A. M. Simons, Chicago; Geo. W. Smith, Member New
York Commission; John T. Smith, Secretary Missouri State Federation
of Labor; Mason B. Starring, Member Illinois Commission; H. Wirt
Steele, Charity Organization Society, Baltimore, Md.; Ethelbert
Stewart, United States Bureau of Labor; Charles A. Sumner, City Club,
Kansas City, Missouri.
Edward G. Trimble, Employers' Indemnity Exchange, Houston, Texas;
James H. Tufts, University of Chicago.
Paul J. Watrous, Secretary Wisconsin Commission and State Delegate;
Agnes Wilson, United Charities, Chicago; Edwin R. Wright, Member and
Secretary Illinois Commission.
FIRST SESSION, FRIDAY, JUNE 10, 1910, 9.30 A. M.
In the absence of Commissioner Charles P. Neill, of the United States
Bureau of Labor, who was detained in Washington by urgent official
matters, the first session of the Chicago Conference was opened by
the Secretary, H. V. Mercer, Chairman of the Minnesota Employes
Compensation Commission, and he was unanimously elected temporary
chairman for the Chicago meetings.
In formally opening the Conference and assuming the chair, Mr. Mercer
said:
CHAIRMAN MERCER: According to the program here, the first order
of business for this meeting is brief reports from the different
state commissions. I understand there are seven States that have
commissions working on the question of compensation for industrial
accidents, or perhaps, more properly speaking, for injuries occurring
in the course of and arising out of the industries in which they
are employed,--for "accidents," according to the courts in some
States, do not mean what we want to cover. Some courts use that term
in the popular sense; some use it as including, and some use it as
excluding, any idea of fault or negligence.
In view of the fact that you have made me temporary chairman, it
would hardly be proper for me to open this meeting with a report from
Minnesota, and hence I will call upon the other States first.
(Upon the Call of States by the Chairman, the following responses
were given.)
WISCONSIN.
SENATOR JOHN J. BLAINE: Our Committee is a legislative committee made
up of three members of the Senate and four members of the Assembly.
The committee was appointed at the last session of the Legislature
in 1909. They have been diligently pursuing the course of their
investigations with the object of arriving at a bill which the
committee can recommend to the Legislature for its adoption. It was a
few months before we got to work after our appointment and it was not
until last April that we drafted the first tentative bills.
I would state briefly that the first tentative bills were drafted
with the object of drawing out discussion on the part of the
employers and employes. We had held some meetings previously, and
those who appeared before us were somewhat in the dark as to just
what we intended to do and wanted to do, and therefore we drafted
tentative bills to which they should direct their fire of criticisms
and suggestions.
The first bill presented was a bill destroying the common law
defenses, assumption of risk, the co-employe doctrine, and modifying
contributory negligence to that of comparative negligence. The second
of the first tentative bills was a compensation measure. The purpose
of the first bill was to use a "constitutional coercion," as we have
termed it, making the compensation bill practically compulsory, but
not in the language of the bill declaring it compulsory, hoping
in this way to bring it within the constitution. That destroyed
the common law defenses and then gave the employer the right to
come under the compensation act. Also in that bill the employe was
presumed to be acting under that bill unless he contracted to the
contrary at the time of entering his employment.
The matter of compensation and the details of the bill are not of
particular interest to the Conference, because they are questions
concerning which there is very little contention, and they resolve
themselves practically to the point of working out the question
of arbitration and the measure of compensation and the manner of
arriving at compensation, and such court procedure as is necessary,
in detail.
We found that our first tentative bills performed the exact object
which we intended they should. Neither the committee nor any of
its members, I believe, had any idea that the first tentative
bills represented their individual ideas or even the idea of the
committee as a whole; but they certainly resulted in bringing about
discussion, and after those bills were sent about the State to
employers and employes they all got busy and we had very valuable
and helpful discussions upon those bills. We held a conference in
Milwaukee lasting about a week. There appeared before the committee
representatives of the Merchants' and Manufacturers' Association of
Milwaukee, and from the northern part of the State representatives
of the lumber and various other industries. We also had the State
Federation of Labor.
After that meeting we met again in May and drafted our second
set of tentative bills, the first bill destroying the defense and
assumption of risk, and also the co-employes doctrine as a defense,
but embodying the question of contributory negligence. That bill,
if enacted into law, independent of every other act, would make all
employers of every nature subject to the law, whether the employer
was a farmer, a manufacturer or whatsoever he might be. The second
bill provided practically the same as our other bill.
We found at these public hearings that the question of who shall
pay for the insurance, as it is called, is not a matter of great
contention in Wisconsin. I think the larger manufacturers, and
the great majority of all of them, favor paying the compensation
themselves and either assuming the obligation, or organizing
mutual insurance companies or protecting themselves with liability
insurance policies. There are a few who believe that the employes
should contribute a small portion toward the compensation, but I do
not believe that is the general sentiment among the employers and
manufacturers in Wisconsin.
I think the only serious problem we have to meet is whether we shall
take away the common law right from the employe. The Federation of
Labor of Wisconsin is very much opposed to that feature of our bill,
and personally I am opposed to it. I have expressed that opposition
at all the hearings and directed many questions along that line to
ascertain the sentiment of employers and employes.
Our bill creates the presumption that an employe is acting under
the act unless he contracts to the contrary at the time of his
employment, and of course the idea of that is to get around the
constitutional provisions; therefore, there will be consent to act
under the law, and consent to arbitration, and hence it will no doubt
be constitutional. But the employes, through their representatives,
believe that they should have the right of selection after the injury
has occurred. The Federation bill that they have prepared, follows
practically the same lines as the English act, giving the double
remedy of a common law right of action, and then also compensation
in case of their failure to recover under the common law; but they
have gone so far, through their representatives, as to state that
they would not ask for that provision in its entirety. While I am
not going to speak authoritatively as to just what they will or will
not do, I think it is their idea that if they are given the right
to elect at the time or within a reasonable time of the injury,
whether they shall proceed under the common law remedy or accept the
provisions of the compensation act, that they will be willing to
waive the double remedy, and whichever act the employe chooses to
proceed under, will be a waiver of all other remedies.
That question is going to be debated by both sides and I think if
we are going to meet with any danger of defeat in promoting this
legislation it will be upon that one subject, and personally I hope
that the employers will find that under a reasonable bill, with
reasonable compensation and protection drawn about them, so there
will be no danger to mulct them in any great damages, that they will
be willing to accept some provision giving the employes the right of
election at the time of the injuries.
Under the second tentative bill we have had public hearings
throughout the State, particularly in the industrial centers,
and concluded those hearings last Friday. We expect to meet as a
committee, redraft our bills and get them into substantial form, and
then I suppose, after we have determined what the committee intends
to do as a committee in submitting its report to the Legislature
on the essential points, we will then have public hearings and the
questions that are debatable will be debated before that committee at
these hearings, and then we will make our report accordingly.
NEW YORK.
MISS CRYSTAL EASTMAN: The New York Commission is in a peculiarly
fortunate position. Our bills have both passed and one of them has
already been signed by the Governor, so that to-day our labors would
be all over and we could return to rest, except for the fact that we
still have to inquire into the causes and prevention of industrial
accidents, the causes and effects and remedies of non-employment, and
the causes and remedies for the lack of farm labor in New York State.
You will see from this that we received a life sentence on the New
York Commission. The Legislature evidently thought it would give to
us the solution of all the problems of modern industry and keep the
reformers quiet for fifty years. However, we have finished up the
Employers' Liability part of our job and we feel that we have done
our part of the work in that regard and now have put it up to the
Legislature.
When I was planning what I should say here, I rather thought I would
discuss the two bills which we have introduced, and passed, and leave
out the discussion of how we did the work, but since I have come here
I believe it is more important to tell you how we did it, and take it
for granted that you know about the bills and are familiar with them.
Our work, to my mind, is divided into five different sections. In the
first place we had reports specially prepared for the Commission,
one on the Employers' Liability Law in New York State and the other
States. That was prepared by our counsel and sent to every member of
the Commission early last summer. Then we had a report prepared on
the Foreign Systems of Compensation and Insurance: That was mailed
to the members of the Commission for their information. Then we had
a report on Relief Associations in New York State, which was very
voluminous and was not generally mailed, but was kept in the office
for reference.
The next section of our work was printed inquiries sent to all the
employers whom we could get the names of from the State Department of
Labor, and to all labor unions on record. These inquiries were just
about the same as those sent to the employers, and in a general way
we asked both the labor unions and the employers what they thought of
the present law on employers' liability, how they thought it met the
situation; and we asked them how they would like a law on workmen's
compensation, describing it very briefly. We received replies from
only a small proportion of the inquiries we sent out, but a large
enough number to give us some general idea of the feeling of both the
employers and the laboring people in the State on this subject. I can
say positively, however, that we found no satisfaction; practically
nobody liked the law. The employers disliked it for one reason and
the workmen disliked it for another, and so nobody was satisfied with
it.
Another printed inquiry we sent to the insurance companies. This was
more in the line of investigation, however, as we got from them not
opinions so much as figures showing how much they had received in
premiums from employers for liability insurance, and what proportion
of this had been spent in paying actual claims, thus showing us what
proportion was, so to speak, wasted in the business of defending
claims.
We then wrote letters, not printed inquiries, but letters containing
a list of questions to a great many lawyers, and to all the judges in
the State, asking their opinion about the constitutional questions
involved. That, I think, ended the inquiry section of our work.
Then we held public hearings, five or six up the State and as many
in New York City, and tried to make the invitations as general as
we could. Many of us felt that those hearings were not going to be
important and perhaps were a waste of money, but after we had them
I believe we all felt that they were worth while. They perhaps did
not furnish us with any definite statistical information, but they
did put us in touch with the feelings of the people of the State
on this subject, and gave us a more concrete view of the subject
than we could have gotten by correspondence or by any statistical
inquiry, and brought us in touch with the people on both sides of
the question, who were interested in the problem. But quite apart
from the value to us, of these written inquiries and of the public
hearings, in informing us on the situation, they were valuable in
arousing interest all over the State, and in educating the public in
regard to the problem.
We were particularly gratified to see the way in which labor unions
seized the opportunity to become interested and to educate themselves
in regard to employers' liability and workmen's compensation. When
we started out last fall most of the labor unions that answered our
inquiries did not know what we were talking about, and now I hardly
think there is a union of any size in the State that is not in a
position to know what it wants in the matter of employers' liability
and workmen's' compensation.
The next section of our work was statistical inquiry--a regular
statistical investigation. The bulk of this was done for us under Mr.
Hatch's direction at the New York State Labor Department. A study
was made of some fourteen hundred actual industrial accident cases,
both injury and death, to show what was the loss of income to the man
injured, how much he received from the employer, how much he paid to
a lawyer and what was the effect of the accident upon his family; in
other words, a study of the economic cost of work accidents.
In addition to that Mr. Hatch conducted an inquiry into the cost
of industrial accidents to some three hundred employers, showing
how much they paid in a year on account of industrial accidents and
into what different channels that money went; how much of it went to
employers' liability and insurance premiums; how much went to the
workmen and how much to the hospitals and so forth. All of this was
exceedingly valuable in giving us information as to the conditions in
our own State.
In addition to this the Commission conducted a similar investigation
of three hundred fatal industrial accident cases to determine their
economic effect upon the family and the income loss, of compensation
received and all that. These fatal accident cases we secured in a
perfectly impartial way by taking a year's fatal industrial accidents
reported to the coroners of Manhattan Borough and Erie County,
where Buffalo is situated. As a result of these two inquiries we
have a mass of statistics on this subject. We were able to put
into our report a statement, from the statistics, of just about
what proportion of workmen who were injured received anything to
compensate them for the income loss, and with regard to the workmen
killed, what proportion of the dependents received anything. Those
four divisions, I think, cover our preliminary work.
Then came the business of preparing and writing the report. The rough
draft was prepared by two or three members of the Commission, and
the counsel, in different sections. When it was in printed proof for
the first time, Senator Wainwright, the chairman, called the whole
Commission together and informed us that he intended to make us read
the whole report aloud, all sitting together, so that every member of
the Commission might feel that he had written the report and that it
was his report. That idea astounded me, I will admit, when I first
heard it, because I thought it was going to take us the rest of the
year to do it; but it turned out to be a very excellent plan, and
we actually did that. We sat down for three days without stopping,
except for meals, and read the report aloud, and there is no member
of the Commission who did not make suggestions, and valuable
suggestions, and I think I may say that we all feel that it is our
report.
When it came to the bills which we introduced we followed somewhat
the same plan. We went over every line and word of the bills, of
course in much greater detail than we did the report, and the bills
are the result of a giving in here and a giving in there, as you can
readily imagine. They did not represent just exactly what every one
of us wanted to do, but they represent what we could agree to do, and
the Legislature has done us the honor to take our advice.
And now just a word in regard to these bills. The first one is
called the Optional Bill. It does two things: It remedies the glaring
injustice of the present law on the basis of negligence by modifying
the fellow-servant rule, by making all fellow-servants in positions
of authority vice-principals instead of fellow-servants; by doing
away with the extreme application of the assumption of risk rule
which allows an employe to assume the risk of an employe's negligence
by remaining in employment, and changes the burden of proof of
contributory negligence over to the defendant. Those three things
we felt it to be necessary to change in the employer's liability
law on the basis of negligence, even if we never changed it in any
other particular. In addition to this feature of the bill, there
is afforded to the employes and employers, if they wish to escape
this situation, by an amendment to the employer's liability law, the
opportunity of making a contract. That is the option feature of the
bill; there is nothing particularly interesting or original about
that. Some members of the Commission were for it because it would
force the employers into compensation, and some members were for it
because they thought it remedied an injustice in the present law
which they could not stand for, but, at any rate, all but two of us
were able to agree on that.
Then the second bill, which we call the Compulsory Compensation Act
for dangerous trades, is our solution of two difficulties which we
met and which, no doubt, all of the other commissions are having to
meet. These two difficulties are the constitutional difficulty, the
fact that we have written constitutions limiting our powers along all
these lines; and, secondly, the interstate competitive difficulty,
the fact that in this country our laws are made by States and we have
state legislative lines, but no state competitive lines--the old cry
of the manufacturer, that if you put a burden upon him in New York
State he cannot compete with a manufacturer in Pennsylvania and New
Jersey, and will, therefore, either have to go out of business or out
of the State. That difficulty of interstate competition we felt to be
a real one. Whether it would actually drive the manufacturer out of
business or not, it would inevitably hinder the passing of our bill,
because the manufacturers of the State in a body would oppose it.
The constitutional difficulty, to be a little more definite, in
our case seemed to be pretty serious; we had only two lawyers in
the State who wrote us that they thought a general compulsory
compensation act similar to the English law would be constitutional,
but we had a great deal of advice to the effect that if we could draw
our bill so it would apply to the risk of the trade, and make the
compensation depend upon the inherent risk of the trade, that that
would be constitutional.
With these two difficulties in mind we drew the bill applying to
dangerous trades. As you know, it provides compensation for all
workmen injured in eight specially dangerous trades, if they were
injured either through the fault of the employer or any of his
agents, which is plainly perfectly constitutional; or if they were
injured in any sense through any risk inherent or necessary as a risk
of the trade. The bill does not take away any statutory or common law
rights that the workman now has, but he must choose between one or
the other. If he begins proceedings under the compensation act, he
loses his right to sue and _vice versâ_.
The importance of this bill, in my mind, is very great. I think
that is the way to go at it in this country. If the employer and
the workman both profit by the enterprise they should both assume
the risk of the trade, and that principle, I think, is what is
established by our compulsory compensation bill.
I want to make clear that the list of dangerous trades in this law
is not an inclusive list of dangerous trades by any means. There
is no reason why we should draw the line where we did draw it. Our
reason in selecting these dangerous trades instead of all dangerous
trades, as we originally had our list drawn, was a purely utilitarian
opportunist reason. It was our solution of the second legislative
difficulty in this country; that is, the interstate competition. We
thought that it would be a good plan to get our entering wedge in on
the industries which did not directly compete with other industries
outside of the State. For instance, the builder in New York State
competes with the builder in New York State, generally speaking; and
the railroad in New York State competes with the railroad in New York
State, generally speaking, and not with the outside railroads. We are
quite frank in saying that we thought we could get this bill passed
if we did not make it hit the manufacturer to begin with. We intend
that it shall cover him in time, and just as soon as we can, make it
cover him; but it seemed a fair as well as a wise thing to introduce
the principle and get the employers used to the burden, and get
the insurance rate adjusted for injuries, so that it would not be a
serious competitive difficulty.
Those two reasons, then, explain this bill; we limited it to the
risks of trade instead of having it cover all accidents in the course
of employment, as the representative list did, because we believed
that that was the constitutional line for us to act on, and we
limited it to those dangerous trades which, generally speaking, are
not involved in interstate competition, because we thought we could
pass it easier and it would be fair to try it out on those employers
first.
PROF. HENRY R. SEAGER (New York): I should like to add just a
word along the line of the practical difficulties that all of our
commissions face when it comes to getting legislation. Some members
of the New York Commission felt that it would be a mistake to try to
make any report at all this last winter when the proposal was first
advanced. We felt that we had a very big problem. That, in addition
to studying the experience in this country and getting reports on
European laws, we ought to send some one over or go over ourselves
to the other side and see just how the European laws operate. The
consideration that finally led us to make a report, and try to get
legislation, was the political situation in New York.
As the winter advanced it became very clear that it was a highly
opportune time to get through legislation that had popular sentiment
behind it. The legislative members of our Commission were so
impressed by that aspect of the matter that they were impatient, some
of them, to bring in bills without any report at all to back them
up, and that consideration finally led all of us to feel that we
should hurry as much as we could and get in the best report we could
in the short time that was allowed, with the hope that the bills
we recommend, if reasonable and fair, would be passed. It was that
situation that led us to make a report which at some points was not
altogether satisfactory to the members of the Commission; and that
consideration, I think, justified our action because, as it turned
out, the Legislature was in a mood to act on our recommendations. The
voluntary law was a bill, aside from the compensation feature of it,
that had slumbered in Albany for five or six years in spite of the
efforts of the labor representatives to have something done. That
it was a favorable situation was shown by the comparative ease with
which that bill was passed, in somewhat modified form, when we put
ourselves behind it.
It is those practical considerations, gentlemen, it seems to me, that
we must consider quite as much as the ideal solution of this question
for many years in this country. I say that because as a professor of
political economy, as a theorist, I perhaps would not be expected to
take that view of the matter.
GEORGE W. SMITH (New York): I was sort of a moderate edition of the
employers' representative on the New York State Commission. I was one
against about thirteen. Of course, you can imagine that my advice
could not have been considered very seriously, but I am willing to
say that they certainly did give me considerable consideration, for
the reason that I was not really a radical against any legislation
that would be fair; and I feel that the employers of New York State
felt largely as I did.
I cannot help but remark, however, about the point that Professor
Seager raised, of the opportunity that seemed to present itself
at this session of our Legislature. I do not suppose I ought to
criticise, but I hope that similar conditions will not exist in other
States at the time this legislation is up, because I think it is of
a very important character, and should not be put through for any
personal reasons or in order to bring political capital to any of the
legislative members. I suppose it is pretty well known that there
were a great many shattered reputations in the Legislature of New
York State this year, and it is always a pretty handy thing to have
around an opportunity to do something for the boys that work hard for
a living. I do not blame those that were in favor of this legislation
for taking advantage of that very favorable opportunity, but it
certainly was a good opportunity and was well taken advantage of.
I had to smile, however, on a number of occasions at the attitude
of some of the labor representatives. They did not seem to realize,
a good many of them, how important this legislation was and how
beneficial it was to them; but if they could have gone behind the
scenes, and had a heart-to-heart talk with some of the employers,
they would have realized that the employers did not like it very well.
As for one of the bills being designated as a voluntary or optional
bill by the removal and absolute wiping out almost of all of the
employers' defenses, it practically makes that almost a compulsory
bill. However, I believe that all the employers in the country
realize that the time has arrived when some fair legislation must be
enacted, and the only thing that I think should be well considered
is not to go so far that you are going to put the country in a bad
financial state.
PROF. SEAGER: If Mr. Mitchell would say something about the labor
situation when we started out I think it would be very interesting.
JOHN MITCHELL (New York): The measures have been discussed so
thoroughly by the other members of the Commission that I shall
not attempt to discuss them now. When this Commission was first
appointed in New York State, as Miss Eastman stated, the workmen
knew very little about the systems of compensation in Europe, and
they knew little about the principles of workmen's compensation.
The Commission was appointed not because of a demand for workmen's
compensation, but because of a demand for a comprehensive system of
employers' liability. But after the Commission was appointed, and
it was suggested that they go into an investigation of workmen's
compensation, the unions took the matter up and made investigations
on their own account, and drafted bills which they thought would
cover the matter to their satisfaction. Of course, as was to be
expected, they asked for a rate of compensation that was very much
higher than anything that prevailed in Europe.
While I, personally, was in sympathy with the workmen in their desire
to have the very best system of compensation that it was possible
to obtain, and one better than any they have in Europe, yet I think
that the more conservative of the trade-union workmen recognized that
we could not go very far beyond the system prevailing in England or
in Great Britain until other States, and particularly the adjoining
States, should also take up the matter. The consequence is, however,
that as the matter was developed, and as the workmen were brought
into the discussion of the matter with the Commission, that very many
of them modified their original demands and were willing to accept
the principles laid down both in the optional and in the compulsory
bills which have passed the Legislature.
It is, of course, not to be expected, either in New York or anywhere
else, I assume, that the bill passed by the New York Legislature
meets at all the desires of the workingmen. That is to say, they
will continue to ask what they will eventually succeed in having, a
compulsory law that will include all the trades. I think there is
no special demand for a bill to include agricultural and domestic
service.
The great difficulty right now in New York is concern as to the scale
of compensation. The New York workmen are not satisfied with one-half
wages. They have asked recently that the bill be made full wages. I
think, however, that somewhere between one-half wages and what they
are asking will be accepted as a final solution of the difficulty.
I want to make this one personal observation about these measures,
and in this respect I think my views are not quite in accord with
the views of all of my fellow-workers. I think the purpose of all
this legislation should be first to do substantial justice to the
workingmen, and I think the second consideration should be to take
out of the courts all this long and expensive litigation, in order
that the money that is not paid by employers, or whatever is paid
by them, may be used for the relief of those who are suffering from
industrial accidents. I do not believe, however, that the workmen
should have the right to sue his employer, and, failing to win his
suit, to go back and receive his compensation. I differ with most
workmen in that respect, because I think if he has the right first
to sue, and, failing to win his suit, to then accept the scale
of compensation, that it is a temptation, an almost irresistible
temptation, for him to sue, because it costs very little to enter the
suit, and inasmuch as he knows in advance that if he fails to win the
suit he will have his compensation any way, too many workmen would
elect to sue perhaps on a contingent fee, and then go back if they
failed to win and take the compensation. I do believe, however, that
he should have the choice of suing under the employer's liability law
or accepting the compensation, but, as I say, I do not think he ought
to have both rights. I believe that perhaps the labor men who have
made the most thorough investigation into the subject will agree with
me that it is a fair proposition to give him his choice, but not both
choices.
ILLINOIS.
MASON B. STARRING (Illinois): The Chairman of the Illinois
Commission, Mr. Rawn, is unavoidably absent to-day and probably will
not be able to attend the conference to-morrow. This second Illinois
Commission is young. The act creating it was passed at a special
meeting of the Legislature, and the appointments to membership on
the Commission are of very recent date. In convening the Commission,
the Governor of the State of Illinois expressed the hope that the
members of the Commission would not indulge in deliberation or
consideration of the features of a bill until first they had fully
advised themselves as to the facts which would necessarily and
properly govern the conclusions which they hoped to attain. Illinois,
therefore, is in the position of being a student of this matter, and
the progress and work of its Commission so far, I believe, to be
largely that of investigation. We come here to learn. And were it not
for the fact that the question of age destroys the illusion, when we
heard the lady from New York (Miss Eastman) speak, we certainly would
have felt that we were "sitting at the feet of Liberty Enlightening
the World."
I want to suggest to this meeting, Mr. Chairman, that there is no
one connected with our Commission so familiar with all its workings,
looking at it both from the side of the employer and the employe, as
is our secretary. The Commission is composed of six men chosen from
among the most respected and eminent leaders of the workingmen in
the State of Illinois, supplemented by a selection by the Governor
of six men from the ranks of the employers. The Chairman is Ira G.
Rawn, president of the Monon Railroad, and the Secretary is Edwin
R. Wright, president of the Illinois State Federation of Labor. I
would suggest, Mr. Chairman, that it might please the members of this
meeting, and certainly it would please the members of the Illinois
Commission, if you would ask Mr. Wright to speak to you.
EDWIN R. WRIGHT (Illinois): We have not in Illinois progressed far
enough to make any report showing any particular progress. So far we
have been trying to find ourselves, and to find a starting point from
which we can work. It took us a meeting or two to become acquainted
with each other, and another meeting or so to try and understand the
different points of view.
For years and years we have been going to the Legislature in Illinois
pleading for protection; a measure that would protect our lives,
a measure that would protect those who are dear to us, and year
after year we have failed, until at the present time patience has
almost ceased to be a virtue. We expect this Commission will make an
investigation into how the men in the State of Illinois work and the
compensation that is paid the injured workmen when any compensation
is paid at all, and the relief that is given a man's family after the
breadwinner is sacrificed on the altar of industry. The conditions
are bad in Illinois; I do not believe they are any worse anywhere.
I do not believe a man's' life is worth very much in Illinois. I am
quite sure of it, and before we get through with the investigation I
believe we can show that an employer owning a cart or a wagon, two
good draft horses attached to this wagon and a good driver on the
wagon, if an accident should occur blotting out the team, wagon and
driver, that the employer, through our court system, values each of
the horses attached to the wagon and the driver at about the same
value; one is worth about as much as the other under our present
court system. That is entirely wrong. At least, we believe so.
To the men who are injured at the present time there is very little
being paid. I believe, and I am speaking my own belief, I am sorry
to say, instead of speaking the opinion of the Commission, that we
should have an automatic compensation law in the State of Illinois,
where the man will know absolutely what he is going to receive if
he is injured; what his family is going to receive if he is killed.
It does not make much difference whether we have a double or single
liability. I prefer, of course, a double liability, but I find that
under our court system a man does not get nearly as much under
the double liability as he could expect to receive under a single
liability law, and that if we would insist upon a double liability in
this State we would have to cut down the other provisions of the bill
to secure it.
We have progressed far enough to put just exactly this provision in
a circular form in the hands of every trades unionist in the State
of Illinois at the present time, and we are going to find out what
the rank and file of the workers want. Just as soon as the six labor
members on the Commission find out what the workers of the State want
we will then try to incorporate it into the bill. A circular has
also gone forth from the Commission to the employers of the State,
trying to crystallize their ideas into a concrete proposition, and
then the six members of the Commission representing the employers
and the six members representing the workingmen will sit down at
a table and thresh this out just as a committee would do that was
trying to settle a wage scale, and I believe we will arrive at some
understanding; and when we arrive at an understanding with our
employers who represent organized capital in the State of Illinois,
and six trade unionists representing the organized workers in the
State of Illinois, I believe that that position will be accepted by
both sides, and that when we go to the next Legislature they will
incorporate that into law, and it will be signed by the governor and
put into full force and effect.
I want to say just a word as to why we were anxious to have the
Commission organized as it is. The original plan of the provision
provided that the public should be represented, but the public is not
particularly interested in this matter, not nearly so much as the
other parties. The life of the employer is at stake in this matter.
If we build up conditions so high that he will have to leave the
State or abandon his property, he cannot afford to pay wages to the
workingmen. We, on the other hand, have all we have to lose; we have
not only our trade, but we have our lives at stake, and the public
has no voice in it. Organized capital, through the Manufacturers'
Association, the Mine Operators' Association, and so forth, has a
voice. Organized labor has a voice, but if the public has any voice
at all it does not amount to a great deal in the State of Illinois.
We who have put everything that we possess into the balance in this
matter expect to get something out of it which is definite, just and
fair; and we have good reason to expect that after we have taken
this matter up and threshed it out from one end of the State to the
other that it will be to the advantage of the Legislature to meet us
half-way. I have been in the Legislature as a labor lobbyist for some
years and I have had a little experience in such matters.
I do not know, Mr. Chairman, as I can enlighten you very much on what
we are going to do. We have taken up the State Bureau of Labor report
which we received from the secretary of the Bureau of Labor, who is
here present, and we tried to get at the real meaning of that report.
We intend to take up the state factory inspector's reports also, and
try to get at and understand the real meaning of all these figures
in these reports. It is one thing to publish column after column of
figures which nobody reads and nobody pays any attention to, but it
is an entirely different proposition to get back of those columns of
figures and see what they stand for. These columns of figures stand
for men's lives and they stand for the happiness of the family; yes,
and they stand for the prosperity of the employer as well.
In looking up a state report the other day I found an analysis that
interested me. It showed apparently that every householder in the
State of Massachusetts was paying $30 a year indirectly on account of
the industrial accidents and occupational diseases that occurred in
that State. That is where the public comes in; it costs the public
too much. Should not that be shifted back upon the employer, and if
it is shifted back upon the employer, the employer will, if possible,
prevent the accidents, because it costs a great deal less to furnish
suitable protection for the machinery than it does to pay damages to
the injured employe or to the families of those who are killed.
I want to say this for the trades unions; we do not wish to rob the
employer; we do not wish any bill that will materially injure the
employer. We want to stop the accidents. We do not want damages from
the employers; we want our brothers to remain alive and able to do
their work.
CHAIRMAN MERCER: Is there any member of the first Illinois Commission
present?
PROF. ERNST FREUND (Illinois): Professor Henderson asked me a few
years ago to give a little assistance in the drafting of the measure
that the Commission had decided upon, and that is the only share I
had in the work of that first Illinois Commission. That Commission
was appointed for the sole purpose of reporting upon schemes of
insurance. The whole matter of compensation was, therefore, only
indirectly involved; at the same time the report as to insurance
was unlimited, as far as I know, and not limited to accidents, but
the Commission thought wise to confine their recommendations to an
insurance scheme covering simply the matter of accidents.
They found that it would have been extremely difficult to recommend
or try to secure some plan of compulsory insurance, and for that
reason it was finally suggested that there should be an opportunity
offered for the employers to make a contract with the employes by
which the employers and the employes together might substitute for
the liability under the common law or statute a plan of insurance
which was worked out with some care, to some extent upon the basis of
the English act, one of the main features being that the employers
and employes should contribute each one-half of the insurance
premium. But the whole scheme was a tentative one, especially this
feature, which was so much opposed, of the sharing of the cost of
insurance between the employers and employes, and it was by no means
suggested as a final solution. The whole matter was a tentative
method of dealing with this problem, it being believed that in this
way the plan of insurance might get a foothold in the State and might
approve itself by experience.
At the same time there was a very strong opposition and perhaps Mr.
Wright could speak to that point, because Mr. Wright was one of those
who opposed that scheme very strongly, and nothing came of it. I
may say that in the same year Massachusetts passed a very similar
measure, and that measure has been in effect now for several years, I
believe, with very little practical result.
I think the failure or lack of suggestion of the plan of
Massachusetts was due to the fact perhaps that the public was not
sufficiently familiarized with the scheme, and no determined effort
was made to introduce it.
As I say, the matter was suggested in Illinois as a tentative
solution, not by any means as anything final; and I think it was felt
that a compensation scheme of some kind would probably be called for
sooner or later, and that was the reason the Legislature was urged to
make provision for a compensation commission, which commission is now
studying the problem.
MASSACHUSETTS.
JAMES A. LOWELL (Massachusetts): I am the last thing in commissions,
together with these other gentlemen with me. We are just about a day
old, and not quite that old. We were appointed in a great hurry when
the bill went through, in order to get here to listen and find out
what was being done by the other States, and in order to make up our
mind what should be done in Massachusetts.
The only thing I desire to say now is to explain the kind of a
commission this is. Massachusetts has got so far under the resolution
appointing us that they say, "We want other laws." We are not to
investigate the question of whether other laws would be good or not;
the Legislature has said, "We want other laws. The present laws are
not satisfactory, and we will appoint five residents of Massachusetts
to look into the matter and to see what kind of other laws are
proper," and it is their command to us that we report at the next
Legislature before the middle of next January some kind of a bill to
change the law relating to injuries of workmen in Massachusetts.
As perhaps most of you know, there have been two commissions
in Massachusetts, or, rather, one Commission and a Legislative
Committee. The first Commission sat in 1904, and Carroll D. Wright
was the chairman. A great many things were referred to that
Commission, not only this subject, but the subject of injunctions
and the subject of blacklisting, and so on. That Commission reported
a workmen's compensation act framed after the English act. That has
come up before each succeeding Legislature since then. Then in 1907,
I think it was, a Legislative Committee was appointed and a great
many things referred to them, not only this present subject, but also
boycotting and things of that kind. That committee did not report or,
rather, the minority of it reported in favor of the same act which
the former Commission reported in favor of, but it has never been
passed, although it has come up at every session, and we have annual
sessions in Massachusetts. So this Commission has now been appointed
with the mandate to bring in some kind of a bill to change the law.
I might be pardoned for saying a word about what seems to me to be
the Massachusetts situation as it differs from others. Our industry
there is largely factory industry. Of course, we have cotton mills
and woolen mills, and boot and shoe factories, and all that sort of
thing. It is a kind of an industry where, take it by large numbers,
the injuries are probably a good many, but not very serious, so that
a bill which might work well with a State where there were a good
many hazardous trades, such as mining and not much manufacturing,
might not work well in Massachusetts. Therefore what this Commission
has to consider is some kind of a bill which we must report relating
to the industries of Massachusetts which will be financially possible.
Of course, we also have the same difficulty which everybody else has
as to getting a constitutional bill. I suppose a voluntary bill would
be constitutional, but, as Professor Freund has just said, we have
had a voluntary bill in Massachusetts for two years which allowed, in
the first place, the employers to propose a scheme for compensation
and thereby get out from under our employer's liability law, and
which the next year was amended so the employes could propose the
scheme. That has been on the statute books for two years, and no
one has ever made the slightest attempt to come in under it, so that
as far as our present situation goes the voluntary system is of no
use in Massachusetts. After a great deal of advertisement, nobody at
the present time cares about it. It seems to me that some kind of a
compulsory law would be necessary to effect anything, and the great
legal difficulty is in getting one which will stand the test of the
courts.
JOSEPH A. PARKS (Massachusetts): I listened very attentively to the
delegates from New York, and while they have done some work there,
I was a little disappointed, on the whole. I do not think they have
gone far enough to please your humble servant. I notice that they
have not included any manufacturing establishments whatever. Of
course, that touches me, because I happen to be a mill operative for
about thirty years, and we have mostly mills in my State.
I have introduced the bill for workmen's compensation in the
Massachusetts Legislature for the last four years, the bill Mr.
Lowell referred to, and, as has been stated, they have reported two
different measures in two different years, and no one took any notice
of them. In the mills in the city where I live, and in all the mill
cities in Massachusetts, they have a great many more small accidents
than they do of the serious ones. That is especially true in the
weaver room, and I happen to be a weaver. We have a lot of things
that are liable to take a finger off or injure an eye, or the shuttle
is liable to come out of the loom suddenly, or you are liable to
slip and get caught in the machinery. The machines are all crowded
together, and a girl is liable to get her skirts or her hand caught
in the machinery, and when little things like that occur, injuries
that will possibly lay the employe up for a week or two, or three
or four weeks, the employe should be protected. The operatives do
not care much about the loss of a finger or the loss of beauty, or
any such thing as that. The particular thing that the operative is
interested in is, if he is a man of family, how his family is going
to make out while he is on a sickbed and unable to work. He does
not make large enough earnings so that he can lay aside his little
savings for a rainy day. Unfortunately, the mill operative is the
worst paid employe in the United States, without any doubt. They
contribute a good deal to the prosperity of the commonwealth which I
have the pleasure in part to represent, but they get very little of
the cream of the industry.
The industry in Massachusetts, as you all know, is a big success,
and we are proud of it and want it to stay there, and do not want
to do anything that will drive it out of the State; but we do want
to do something for the mill operatives, at least I do, and I think
that the Commission which has been appointed will bring about some
system that will give them protection. They make all the way from $6
to $10.50 in the cotton mills. The average, I believe, is about $7 in
Fall River to-day, so that you can see that a mill operative getting
injured has not anything to fall back on. He wants to be assured that
his family is going to be taken care of. The operative has recourse
to the employer's liability act, but it takes too long. It is about
two years before a case comes to court in our State, and while he is
waiting his family is waiting for that income that has been cut off.
I hope the New York delegation will pardon my referring to their
having left out the manufacturers. There is some reason, no doubt,
and I suppose in part it is due to interstate competition, and that
is something we will have to look out for. If we have the time, Mr.
Chairman, before this convention is over, I would like to hear from
the New York delegation in regard to that feature.
JOHN MITCHELL: I think perhaps Mr. Parks did not understand. As I
remember it, both Miss Eastman and Professor Seager called attention
to what was done for those employed in manufacturing in New York.
While our bill did not include those engaged in manufacturing in
express terms, it has provided for them. That is to say, we have
taken from the manufacturer a great many of his defenses from suits
for damages, so that those who are engaged in hazardous occupations
may sue under the employers' liability law, and the employer sued
cannot set up as a defense the assumption of risk; while mill
employes, not only in Massachusetts, but in all the New England
States, are denied redress simply because they assume the risk of the
industry. Those who are employed in industries where they get their
fingers nipped off and other accidents which are not necessarily
fatal, but nevertheless cause a loss of two or three or four months'
time, under the New York law can bring suit under the employers'
liability law, and, no doubt, in most cases would be able to make
settlements without going through the slow process of the courts,
because there would be a liability on the part of the employer
in New York, whereas in the case of Massachusetts I understand at
present there is no liability at all. So that we have, while perhaps
not ample provision for them, yet so much better provisions than they
ever had before that I dare say that nine cases will be compensated
for in a suit for damages or settled because of the right to sue,
where only one would have been compensated for under the old law.
MR. PARKS: I was not aware of that. I thought the bill covered merely
those "dangerous occupations" Miss Eastman referred to.
MR. MITCHELL: No, we have two bills in New York.
NEW JERSEY.
MILES M. DAWSON (New York): I am sorry to say that I do not know very
much about what Governor Fort did in New Jersey, or what the New
Jersey Commission has done, because I am a resident of New York. I do
know, however, that a Commission has been appointed, and that several
gentlemen prominent in labor circles are on the Commission, and an
officer of the United States Steel Corporation, and an officer of
the Public Service Company, which operates nearly all of the trolley
lines and, I think, all the electric lighting systems in northern
New Jersey, are members of the Commission. From the make-up of the
Commission I should expect that they would do good work, but I do not
understand that they have as yet completely organized. I have not
heard of their appointing counsel even, although they may have done
so, and I do not think they have yet got down to work. The fact that
they are not represented at this Conference is an indication that
such is the case.
I do not think there is anything peculiar about their appointment
or any unusual situation in New Jersey, except, as I understand it,
that the Governor particularly and the Legislature to a large degree,
are interested as nearly everybody is becoming interested nowadays
in this general question, and so the Governor considered that there
ought to be something done in New Jersey.
FREDERICK L. HOFFMAN (New Jersey): I am not a member of the New
Jersey Commission and so am not in a position to say very much
about it. Mr. Clark, of the Clark Thread Company, is a member of
the Commission, in addition to the gentlemen whom Mr. Dawson has
mentioned. They have not as yet organized, so far as I know. They
have not elected counsel, and they have not declared their plans,
but I dare say when they get down to work they will follow very
largely the methods of the New York Commission.
OHIO.
Ohio was called, but the members of the Ohio Commission had not yet
been appointed by the Governor.
MICHIGAN.
M. M. DUNCAN (Michigan): There is no Commission in Michigan. The
Governor of Michigan, however, appointed a committee of seven
delegates to attend this convention in order that we might learn of
the progress that is being made and report back.
JAMES V. BARRY (Michigan): As Mr. Duncan stated, the Governor
appointed seven delegates to this convention. We are here simply
to observe what is taking place and to learn from the States that
have made progress what report to make to our own State. We are not
commissioned to prepare any legislation of any kind as are the States
which have already spoken.
MARYLAND.
CHAIRMAN MERCER: Maryland had a bill at one time. Is there any one
here representing Maryland? They had an act passed in 1902, and that
act was declared unconstitutional by one of their lower courts in
the spring of 1904, as I recall now, upon the ground that there were
judicial powers delegated to the insurance commissioner.
H. WIRT STEELE (Maryland): That is true; that act was declared
unconstitutional and is inoperative. We have no legislation in
Maryland covering the matter of workmen's compensation, and we have
simply been relegated to the old doctrine of master and servant. I
believe, however, that out of this Conference will perhaps come a
movement for a Commission similar to the ones represented here.
CONNECTICUT.
CHAIRMAN MERCER: Connecticut had a Commission that reported, I
believe, last year. Is there anyone present from Connecticut?
PROF. HENRY W. FARNAM (Connecticut): I am from Connecticut, but I do
not think there is very much to be said. I was not a member of that
Commission, although I have read their report. It is rather negative,
very cautious.
CHAIRMAN MERCER: Is there any other State Commission represented? We
cannot tell nowadays whether we will have a Commission the next day
or not, and there may have been two or three appointed since this
convention was called. If not, I will tell you briefly how we have
studied the question in Minnesota.
MINNESOTA.
CHAIRMAN MERCER: We have not pursued the same theory exactly in
Minnesota that has been pursued in any other State. We did not
commence as most of the States have commenced. The commencement
of the study of this question in Minnesota was originated in the
Minnesota State Bar Association. At their annual meeting in Duluth,
in the summer of 1908, a paper was read having reference to the then
unfortunate conditions at common law, and asking that something be
done in the way, or along the line, of or on, some compensatory plan.
Somebody made a motion that a committee be appointed to draft a bill
and to report it back to the next Legislature. Some of them were
afraid to have that done for fear the committee might draft a bill
that would not be rational, that would not be fair, and that it might
go through the Legislature as a bar association measure.
I was sitting in the front row, and I moved that the matter be
referred to the Committee on Jurisprudence and Law Reform, knowing
that I was not on that committee and could not be on it under the
then circumstances. The motion passed and then the convention
became frightened for fear that it had placed too much power in the
committee and resolved to have that committee report to a special
meeting of the bar association which would be called in St. Paul,
in January, so that they might go over the recommendations that
were to be made before they would be presented to the Legislature.
Up to the 20th of October absolutely nothing had been done on the
matter. Then it so happened that I was asked to resign from another
committee and take the chairmanship of that committee, its chairman
having resigned. The committee was composed of gentlemen whom it was
supposed would well balance the sentiment on the question. There was
one lawyer that had made a specialty of liability insurance defenses,
there was one country senator, the dean of the College of Law of the
Minnesota University, an attorney that earned most of his living from
the railroads and then I, neither a laborer nor a capitalist.
We took up the question, and found immediately after going over
it with different theorists and by correspondence that there was
no data in Minnesota or elsewhere that we could get upon which
to draw a proper bill. We looked at the experience of Maryland,
we looked at the reports, and the experience of New York down to
that time, and found that they had not passed a bill which had
been recommended for a permissive plan of contract; we looked at
conditions in Massachusetts and found they had not accomplished
very much there except a lot of work; we looked over the work of
the Illinois Commission and corresponded with them, and found that
their bill which had recommended a permissive plan of contract had
been defeated. We found in New York the constitutionality had been
questioned, and in Massachusetts it had been questioned by the
Commission.
In Illinois the reports showed that the plan they wanted to adopt
could not be adopted constitutionally, and they recommended the
permissive plan in lieu thereof. Connecticut, I think, at that time
had appointed a Commission, but it had not yet reported. The United
States had passed a law known as the Act of June 11, 1906, which
affected the comparative negligence rule and also provided certain
obligations with respect to offsetting settlements, and the Supreme
Court had declared that unconstitutional in January, 1908. Two
important measures had been presented to Congress with able arguments
to support them, and up to that time they had been practically
limited in their discussion to leave to print in the _Congressional
Record_.
Our philanthropic and other state institutions in Minnesota had no
data from which we could get any intelligent idea, according to the
correspondence that we had. The Associated Charities, both state and
national, had no sufficient data. The labor unions throughout the
United States had no sufficient data. The National Manufacturers'
Association had no sufficient data. I say this because I wrote to the
President, and the correspondence was referred to Judge Emory, and
we never got any information, because, as I understood, they had not
then studied the matter sufficiently. I wrote to Mr. Mitchell, and
he answered that he had no sufficient data, and referred me to Mr.
Gompers.
I wrote to Mr. Gompers concerning it and he answered practically
to the same effect, sending back a bill to establish comparative
negligence and some other provisions somewhat along the federal lines
that had been declared unconstitutional by the United States Supreme
Court, because covering business within the State as distinguished
from interstate business; that is, it related to both, as the court
construed it.
From Eugene V. Debs, representing, as I thought, another group of
men, I received an excellent letter explaining what had been done in
other countries, and referring me to the data, he having evidently
studied it considerably.
From James J. Hill, through his counsel, I received the answer that
they favored such legislation if it could be properly made.
Andrew Carnegie had his secretary write that he favored an act along
the lines of "Britain."
Now, I may confess to you that up to this time, neither the Minnesota
employers nor the labor unions were in this, and not because I was
a politician, but because I had had some experience, I concluded if
I could get some expressions from these various interests that it
might be valuable when we came to the Legislature with this bill,
if some bill along this line was drafted. I ransacked the libraries
at home, and communicated with the largest libraries in Boston and
New York and all over the country to secure the books and magazine
articles touching on the matter, but nowhere could we find any
sufficient argument as to the constitutionality of such a law, nor
any sufficient data to make an economic law. A paragraph by Professor
Freund, in his work on _Police Power_, and an article by P. Tecumseh
Sherman, a former commissioner of the State of New York, were about
all I found on the question of constitutionality.
Later we found that the Russell Sage Foundation had been looking into
the matter abroad, through two able men, Dr. Frankel and Mr. Dawson.
They were abroad that summer to study the matter and we afterward
got in touch with them. The result was that our committee, or rather
myself and one other gentleman, because we were not able to get
any of the others to meet with us, reported to the bar association
that we thought we ought to have three kinds of laws passed; one to
appoint a Commission to educate itself, another which would require
those persons who had accidents, both employers and employes, to
report data, and the third, one that would require the insurance
companies insuring such risks in Minnesota to make reports in detail
to the Commission, in order that they might study out precisely all
the results.
We found that New York and Wisconsin had valuable articles, and so
had Massachusetts and one or two other States, in their Labor Bureau
reports. Our correspondence with every labor department in the United
States did not develop very much more, except some valuable work by
the Illinois Commission, and some valuable work by some professors
in various institutions in the form of articles and a pamphlet, I
believe by the Chicago _Record-Herald_, that was put out while the
Illinois Commission had this work under consideration.
The bar association approved that report and asked us to send it on
to the Legislature with recommendations for those three bills. Just
prior to that we had arranged for meetings with the labor unions in
our State for political reasons, to find out what their views were.
Then with the president of the employers' association, again for
political reasons, to find out what their views were. Finally we got
the two together, and they had not been working together so well
up there as they might have been in some other places. But by the
time of the second meeting they passed a resolution which was to the
effect that they would join hands in trying to get a compensation
movement started in Minnesota, but that neither should undertake to
take any advantage of the other in the Legislature, while they were
both faithfully performing their part of that agreement, and they
stuck loyally by it.
Then we took up the question of how we should present the matter
to the Legislature, and the Governor said he would send a special
message to the Legislature recommending our plan. That was done, and
bills immediately began to appear in the Legislature from various
motives, but we all three stood on the position that we were going
to have an absolute plan on an intelligent basis if we could get it.
Along toward the end of the session the Legislature passed the three
bills which we had recommended.
Our Commission at the present time has thousands of reports of
accidents in its possession, with the dates of the accidents and all
the data concerning them, which we are not at liberty to make public
because the bill does not permit us to do so. We wanted a bill that
would prevent our doing so until we had our reports made, so that no
one could get in and get hold of this information and take advantage
of it.
In addition to that, we have the reports coming into the labor
department as to the actual injuries that occur. Those we have not
yet tabulated.
The Governor appointed George M. Gillette, who was a large
manufacturer; William E. McEwen, the State Labor Commissioner, and
myself on that committee. One of the first things we did when we
met was to take up the question of the foreign laws. We found that
they were not translated into English. One of the first things we
undertook then was to get the labor department at Washington to
translate all that were not translated. It agreed to do so. When
we held the Atlantic City convention a resolution was passed at
that meeting requesting the same thing. We wanted not only some
education, but some uniform action. So we started to correspond with
the members of the other commissions, like the New York Commission
and some others that had been appointed in the meantime, and asked
them to meet us and discuss matters. It was finally suggested that
invitations be sent out for a joint meeting. That was done under
my own name, representing the Minnesota Commission. We met down at
Atlantic City, and after that meeting was held, we held our second
meeting down in Washington, and this meeting is the third.
Mr. McEwen and Mr. Gillette have been abroad to study the question
and have just returned. I hoped they would be here, but they have not
arrived.
We have taken up the matter through correspondence, we have asked
special questions through the press, and we expect to get our bills
in shape so that they will be intelligible for discussion through
this convention and others, and then put them up to the public and
ask the manufacturers and the railroads and the labor unions and all
of the other representative bodies that will be affected by them, to
appoint men who may study the questions sufficiently to come before
us and discuss them intelligently, so that we may be educated to the
best possible theoretical standpoint.
In the meantime I shall probably go to Europe in July. Our report
will not be made until next January. The bill which passed the
Legislature requires us to study the conditions in this country and
abroad, and to report a bill or bills which we think are consistent
with the necessities of the case, and, so far as possible, to make
the bill or bills constitutional. The report of the Atlantic City
Conference, when it was printed, was sent to the Governor of each
State, to the attorney-general of each State, and to the labor
department of each State, and that report was quite a large volume.
Bar associations throughout the United States have quite generally
taken this matter up, and I should think in not less than eight or
ten States they have it under consideration now. The labor unions
in quite a number of States also have it under consideration.
We sent out invitations to the governors, and nineteen of them
appointed delegates to the Conference held in Washington, in January.
Fifteen States were represented. I do not know how many States are
represented here to-day, but all these delegates were accredited to
come to this convention.
We have done a lot of miscellaneous work up there, but we are trying
to get all our work in shape, so that when we do draft our bill we
shall know as nearly as we possibly can, at least theoretically, what
we are doing, and we are glad to see that New York and Wisconsin and
all these other States are moving ahead. You have good commissions
and we glory in the work you are doing. We only hope that we may be
able to profit a little by your experience and by your legislation.
We hope that the movement can be made as nearly uniform as possible.
Up to the present time we have been discussing very largely in
Minnesota the sort of a bill which has been sent out for discussion
this afternoon, and I shall not go into that matter at all, but as
temporary chairman. I wish to thank both you ladies and you gentlemen
for being present at this meeting and for taking part in this
discussion.
PROF. SEAGER: At the last meeting of the Conference a committee of
three was appointed to choose an Executive Committee of fifteen
members. It appears that I am the only member of that committee of
three present at this meeting, so I can offer a unanimous report.
[The recommendations of Professor Seager were accepted by the
Conference, which accordingly elected ten members of the Executive
Committee to serve as executive officials with the five general
officers. The complete list as finally elected is printed on the
second page of the cover of this volume.]
SECOND SESSION, FRIDAY, JUNE 10, 1910, 2.00 P. M.
Chairman Mercer called the second session of the Conference to order
at 2 P. M., and announced that the Reports of Committees was the
first order of business.
As chairman of the Executive Committee, Professor Seager submitted a
draft of by-laws, which was, with slight amendment, adopted by the
Conference. The final draft is printed in the Introductory Note to
this volume.
The report of the Committee on Nominations was then presented by
Miles M. Dawson, and upon motion adopted by the secretary casting the
unanimous ballot of the Conference for the election of the general
officers as printed on the second page of the cover of this volume.
This completed the order of business to come before the Conference,
and the discussion of the "Workers' Compensation Code" was taken up
as follows:
WORKERS' COMPENSATION CODE.
CHAIRMAN MERCER: There is one further committee, I think, that was
appointed to draft a bill for discussion, and we were so far apart
that we never got together. One was sent out, however, in printed
form, and I think all of you have had copies of it. A thousand copies
were distributed.
I will say before we begin the discussion of that bill that it was
meant to be drawn as an outline, and to be sufficiently broad in the
different sections to raise all the points for discussion and not
intended to be either technically correct, or what might be called
an artistic measure. It was intended to be broad enough to provoke
discussion as to all of the necessary elements of a bill. The formal
program, as outlined, involves this one that was distributed, and if
that brings out all the points which you want to discuss it might
be best to take that up section by section and hear your views on
that, or other schemes if you desire. It would seem hardly right,
however, since there are a number of other bills here, and they might
not all agree, to limit you to this specific bill, but you ought to
be permitted to discuss, I suppose, the principle involved in each
section as you take it up.
[The bill which was designed and used as an outline for the
discussion which follows is here reprinted.]
WORKERS' COMPENSATION CODE.
(OUTLINE FOR DISCUSSION).
BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF MINNESOTA:
Section 1. _Dangerous employment defined._ That every employer
in the State of Minnesota conducting an employment in which
there hereafter occurs bodily injuries to any of the employes
arising out of, and in the course of, such employment, is for
the purposes of this act hereby defined to be conducting a
dangerous employment [at the time of such occurrence], and
consequently subject to the provisions of this act and entitled
to the benefits thereof.
Sec. 2. _Liability of employers._ That every such employer
shall be liable to pay to every such employe so injured,
or in case of his death, to the legal representatives, as
hereinafter defined and apportioned for all bodily injuries
received by such employe arising out of, and in the course
of, such employment in this State disabling such employe from
regular services in such employment for more than ten days
and according to the schedule of rates contained in Section 3
of this act, on the condition precedent only, that, in case
of dispute as to the amount to be paid for such injuries, or
the failure or refusal to agree upon or to pay the same, such
employe or the legal representatives thereof shall comply with
the provisions of this act.
Sec. 3. _Compensation allowed._ The compensation herein and
hereby allowed, if established as herein provided, having
arisen out of and in the course of such dangerous employment
within this State, shall be on the following basis:
(a) For immediate death or for death accruing within five years
as a result of such injuries, or for injuries causing total
incapacity for that service for five years or more, 60 per
cent. of the amount of wages the injured was receiving at the
time of the accident for a period of five years, provided, such
payment shall not continue longer than to aggregate $3000.
(b) For total or partial disability for less than five years,
60 per cent. of the wages the injured was receiving at the time
of the injury so long as there is complete disability for that
service and that proportion of the said percentage which the
depleted earning capacity for that service bears to the total
disability when the injury is only partial or after it becomes
only partial.
(c) In addition to the foregoing payments, if the injured loses
both feet or both hands, or one foot and one hand, or both
eyes, or one eye and one foot or one hand, he shall receive,
during the full period of five years, 40 per cent. of the
wages which he was receiving at the time of such accident; or
if he loses one foot, one hand, or one eye, the additional
compensation therefor shall be 15 per cent. of his said wages;
or if he be otherwise maimed or disfigured, then, for such
maiming or disfigurement, during the time it shall continue,
he shall receive therefor such proportion of 40 per cent. as
such maiming or disfigurement bears in depleted ability in
the employment to the relative loss of the members specified
herein; _Provided_, That in no case shall all of the payments
received herein exceed in any month the whole wages earned when
the injury occurs, nor shall the said 40 per cent. when all
received, or any portion thereof, and the said 60 per cent.
when all received, or any portion thereof, continue longer than
to make all sums aggregate $5000.
Sec. 4. _Repeal of other liabilities._ The right to
compensation and the remedy therefor, as herein specified,
shall be in lieu of all other causes of action for such
injuries and awards upon which they are based as to all persons
covered by this act, whether formerly authorized or allowed by,
or as the result of, either state, statute or common law, and
no other compensation, right of action, damages or liability,
either for such injuries or for any result thereof, either in
favor of those covered by this act or against such employer
based on state law, shall hereafter be allowed for such
injuries to any persons or for any of the injuries covered by
this act so long as this law shall remain in force, unless, and
then only to the extent, that this law shall be specifically
amended.
Sec. 5. _Conditions precedent to right of recovery._ That as a
condition precedent to such right to compensation, such employe
or the legal representatives thereof, as the case may be, shall
within ten days after knowledge of such injury, unless there be
valid excuse for delay and then immediately after such excuse
is removed, cause a written notice thereof in substantially
the form designated in paragraph ---- (form to be provided)
of this act, to be served upon the said employer by leaving
a copy thereof addressed to the employer with the person in
charge of such employe while he was so working, if that person
is still in said employ, or with some superior agent, officer
or person in charge of said business at any office thereof
within this State in the same way that a summons can now be
served; and in case of a dispute between the employe and the
said employer, or in case of the failure of such employer and
employe to agree upon such claim or in case of failure or
refusal of such employer to pay, such employe shall submit his
claim for compensation hereunder, both as to the nature of the
injuries and the amount to compensate therefor under this act,
to a board of three arbitrators, as hereinafter specified, in
substantial compliance with the form contained in section ----
hereof.
Sec. 6. _Board of arbitration and awards._ There is hereby
created a Board of Arbitration and Awards, known as "Board of
Awards" with jurisdiction throughout the State of Minnesota
to arbitrate the questions arising hereunder and make awards
consistent herewith, which is now and shall remain subdivided
into districts with the same numbers and co-ordinate with
the judicial districts of this State as they now are and may
hereafter be changed, which board shall consist of three
members from each judicial district, which members shall be
non-partisan in politics, appointed by .....................,
and hold their offices during a period of ............. years;
except for fraud, or want of jurisdiction the findings and
awards made herein shall be final and conclusive as to the
nature of the injuries and the amount of compensation.
Sec. 7. (The law shall provide for compensation, expenses and
secretary, and probably that the Clerk of Courts act as Clerk
and make annual report to Commissioner of Labor.)
Sec. 8. _Remedy._
(a) Every person claiming the benefits of compensation under
this act, may issue to the employer from whom he claims the
same a notice of claim in substantially the following form:
First: You are hereby notified that ...................... has
this day filed the original of this notice of claim against you
with the Clerk of the Board of Awards in District No. ........
and that you are required to answer the same with a copy served
upon the undersigned within ten days.
Second: Said ............................... was in your
employ as a ......................... at ..................
on or about the ....... day of ........ 19.... and received
an injury of the supposed general nature following:
.......................................................... by
reason of the following incident (describe it) and that such
injury arose in and out of the course of said employment and
has lasted more than ten days and it is claimed that you are
liable to pay compensation for .......... per cent. of the
wages which were $....... per ........ at the time of such
injury, and for ....... per cent. for maiming and crippling.
(b) Answer. The answer shall
1. Admit or deny the employment.
2. Admit or deny that an injury was received at the time and
place.
3. Admit or deny that the injury, if any, was in the course of
employment and that it arose out of the course of employment.
4. Set up the injury claimed if different from the injured's
claim.
5. Admit or deny or correct the amount of wages.
6. Give notice of any special claim to be urged to defeat
compensation.
(c) Reply. The reply shall so far as possible admit or deny the
specific statements of the answer which contradict or bar the
complaint.
(d) Hearing. As soon as the reply is filed with proof of
service the clerk shall set such claim for hearing in its order
at the earliest date possible and notify both parties by mail,
thereof.
Sec. 9. _Award._ The Board of Awards shall make its award upon
a full hearing, to both parties held after notice and shall
consider the whole record and may visit the premises if within
its district and make such award as it shall decide to be
consistent with the spirit and powers of this act, and in the
following form:
1. Title.
2. We find in the above case that the injured received injuries
arising in and growing out of the course of such employment
when he was receiving as wages the sum of $......... per
............ payable .................
3. That the injuries appear now to be and are as follows:
...........................................................
...........................................................
4. That for ................. disability the compensation
to be paid is hereby found and awarded against the employer
................... of ................. at ............ per
cent. of such wages payable to the following persons in the
respective proportions for ......... ........... and as said
wages were paid and (of injuries uncertain) ................
this proceeding is hereby adjourned to the ........ ........
day of ............... for further consideration.
Sec. 10. _How risk may be insured._ That any such employer,
or any association of employers, may keep the risks created
by this law fully covered by insurance, in associations, or
insurance companies approved by the insurance department of
this State, for policies covering the full liability under
this law, and thereby relieve themselves from any further
responsibility with respect to paying such compensation, and
if any such employer or employers shall so insure such risks
they shall be entitled to take and keep from the wages of their
laborers, on a pro rata basis, of the wages, .......... per
cent. of the amount necessary to pay the regular premiums for
carrying such insurance.
Sec. 11. All insurance and all benefits of compensation due or
to become due to any employe under this act shall be and remain
exempt from garnishment and all other forms of attachment.
Sec. 12. Provision defining the words and phrases, and covering
all tenses, pronouns and both sexes.
Sec. 13. Of course the jurisdictional features and all matters
of practice, rehearings, etc., must be worked out after we see
what substantive provisions are to be made.
CHAIRMAN MERCER: The reason for heading that, "Workers' Compensation
Code," was to cover the constitutional provisions in some of the
States, which prohibit a bill from covering more than one subject,
which shall be expressed in its title, and the fact that the term
"code" means a system of law. By the adoption of that scheme it was
our intention to raise the point, so that if you agreed to that
general idea you could adopt a law with a heading sufficiently broad
to codify the law of your State on that question, to allow you to
repeal such portions of the common law as you wanted to repeal as
a part of that chapter, and not be subject to the limitations of
the constitutions of a number of States which would prohibit your
covering more than one law. Do you care to waste any time on the
heading?
MR. DAWSON: I would like to ask one question about the heading and
that is why the word "workers" was used instead of "workmen?"
CHAIRMAN MERCER: Like everything else, that was used to provoke
discussion. Workmen's Compensation, or Workingmen's Compensation,
seems to have a technical meaning in this field of legislation. It
seems to be understood generally as covering this whole subject,
and yet when you come to define your bill and outline it and cover
it section by section, you must either leave something to the
construction of the courts, or else you must make provision to the
effect that workmen shall cover workwomen and children and boys and
girls and everybody connected with it. It seems to me it would cover
that point (although it seems to be revolutionary in form) if we used
the term "workers," because that would include everybody.
MR. DAWSON: Your idea then was, Mr. Chairman, that the word "worker"
is believed to have more comprehensive significance than the word
"workmen," and that it would be certain to be so held by the courts?
CHAIRMAN MERCER: That was my own idea. I think I am sound on it, but
I have tried enough lawsuits to know that a fellow is never sound
until he is done. Shall we pass to the first section and leave it
without any expression as to the heading?
MASON B. STARRING (Illinois): I would like to inquire in regard to