THE TRIAL
_Information as to the Original Documents of the Trial will be found
in the Appendix, p. 331._
_An Introductory Note on the Maid’s Capture at Compiègne and on the
Procedure of her Trial is given in the Appendix on p. 332._
[Illustration:
THE OLD CASTLE OF ROUEN.
]
I
FIRST PROCESS: THE LAPSE
TRIAL EX OFFICIO
SIX PUBLIC EXAMINATIONS
_On Wednesday, February 21st, at 8 o’clock in the morning, in the Chapel
Royal of the Castle of Rouen. The Bishop and 42 Assessors present._
We did first of all command to be read the Royal letters conveying
surrender and deliverance of the said woman into Our hands; afterwards
the letters of the Chapter of Rouen, making concession of territory for
Our benefit. This reading ended, M^{tre.} Jean d’Estivet, nominated by
Us as Promoter of the Case, did, in Our presence, shew that the
aforesaid woman of the name of Jeanne hath been, by the Executor of Our
Mandate, cited to appear in this place at this hour and day, here to
answer, according to law, to the questions to be put to her.
The said Promoter did then produce Our Mandate, to which is attached the
document confirming its execution, and did read them all. Our said
Promoter did then require that the said woman should be placed before
us, and, in terms of the citation, questioned by Us on divers Articles
concerning the Faith, to the which We did agree. But as a preliminary,
because the said woman had asked to hear Mass beforehand, We did shew to
the Assessors that, by the advice of well-known Doctors and Masters
consulted by Us, it hath been decided, considering the crimes of which
she is accused, and the impropriety of the dress which she is wearing,
that it is right to postpone permission to hear Mass and to assist in
Divine Service.
In the meantime, the said woman was brought by the Executor of Our
Mandate, and set before Us.
We did then shew that the said Jeanne hath been lately taken[5] in the
territory of Beauvais; that many acts contrary to the Orthodox Faith
have been committed by her, not only in Our Diocese, but in many others;
that the public report, which imputes these misdeeds to her, hath spread
in all estates of Christendom; that, in the last place, the most Serene
and most Christian our lord the King hath sent and given her up to Us in
order that, according to law and right, an action may be brought against
her in the matter of the Faith; that, acting upon this common report,
upon public rumour, and also on certain information obtained by Us, of
which mention hath already been often enough made, by the advice of men
versed in sacred and secular Law, We have officially given commandment
to cite the said Jeanne to appear before Us, in order through her to
obtain truthful answers to the questions to be put to her in matters of
the Faith, and in order to act towards her according to law and right;
which doth so appear in the letters that the Promoter hath shewn.
Then, desiring in this particular the blessed succour of Jesus Christ,
Who is concerned in this, and wishing only to fulfil the duties of Our
office for the exaltation and preservation of the Catholic Faith, We did
first charitably warn and require the said Jeanne, seated in Our
presence, for the more prompt resolution of the Action and the relief of
her own conscience, to speak the whole truth upon all questions which
should be addressed to her touching the Faith; and We did exhort her to
avoid all subterfuges and shufflings of such a nature as should turn her
aside from a sincere and true avowal.
And in the first instance we did require her, in the appointed form, her
hand on the Holy Gospels, to swear to speak truth on the questions to be
addressed to her.
To which she did reply:
“I know not upon what you wish to question me: perhaps you may ask me of
things which I ought not to tell you.”
“Swear,” We did then say to her, “to speak truth on the things which
shall be asked you concerning the Faith, and of which you know.”
“Of my father and my mother and of what I did after taking the road to
France, willingly will I swear; but of the revelations which have come
to me from God, to no one will I speak or reveal them, save only to
Charles my King; and to you I will not reveal them, even if it cost me
my head; because I have received them in visions and by secret counsel,
and am forbidden to reveal them. Before eight days are gone, I shall
know if I may reveal them to you.”
Again did We several times warn and require her to be willing, on
whatsoever should touch on the Faith, to swear to speak truly. And the
said Jeanne, on her knees, her two hands resting on the Missal, did
swear to speak truth on that which should be asked her and which she
knew _in the matter of the Faith_, keeping silence under the condition
above stated, that is to say, neither to tell nor to reveal to any one
the revelations made to her.
After this oath, Jeanne was interrogated by Us as to her name, and
surname, her place of birth, the names of her father and mother, the
place of her baptism, her godfathers and godmothers, the Priest who
baptized her, etc., etc.
“In my own country they call me Jeannette; since I came into France I
have been called Jeanne. Of my surname I know nothing. I was born[6] in
the village of Domremy, which is really one with the village of Greux.
The principal Church is at Greux. My father is called Jacques d’Arc; my
mother, Ysabelle. I was baptized in the village of Domremy.[7] One of my
godmothers[8] is called Agnes, another Jeanne, a third Sibylle. One of
my godfathers is called Jean Lingué, another Jean Barrey. I had many
other godmothers, or so I have heard from my mother. I was, I believe,
baptized by Messire Jean Minet; he still lives, so far as I know. I am,
I should say, about nineteen years of age. From my mother I learned my
Pater, my Ave Maria, and my Credo. I believe I learned all this from my
mother.”
[Illustration:
JEANNE D’ARC’S HOUSE AT DOMREMY.
]
“Say your Pater.”
“Hear me in confession, and I will say it willingly.”
To this same question, which was many times put to her, she always
answered: “No, I will not say my Pater to you, unless you will hear me
in confession.”
“Willingly,” We said to her, “We will give you two well-known men, of
the French language, and before them you shall say your Pater.”
“I will not say it to them, unless it be in confession.”
And then did We forbid Jeanne to go out of the prison which hath been
assigned to her in the Castle without Our permission, under pain of the
crime of heresy.
“I do not accept such a prohibition,” she answered; “if ever I do
escape, no one shall reproach me with having broken or violated my
faith, not having given my word to any one, whosoever it may be.”
And as she complained that she had been fastened with chains and fetters
of iron, We said to her:
“You have before, and many times, sought, We are told, to get out of the
prison, where you are detained; and it is to keep you more surely that
it has been ordered to put you in irons.”
“It is true I wished to escape; and so I wish still: is not this lawful
for all prisoners?”
We then commissioned as her guard the noble man John Gris,[9] Squire,
one of the Body Guard of our Lord the King, and, with him, John Berwoist
and William Talbot, whom We enjoined well and faithfully to guard the
said Jeanne, and to permit no person to have dealings with her without
Our order. Which the aforenamed, with their hands on the Gospels, did
solemnly swear.
Finally, having accomplished all the preceding, We appointed the said
Jeanne to appear the next day, at 8 o’clock in the morning, before Us in
the Ornament Room, at the end of the Great Hall of the Castle of Rouen.
_Thursday, February 22nd, in the Ornament Room at the end of the Great
Hall of the Castle of Rouen. The Bishop and 48 Assessors present._
In their presence, We shewed that Jean Lemaître, Deputy of the Chief
Inquisitor, had been summoned and required by Us to join himself to the
present Action, with Our offer of communicating to him all that hath
been done hitherto or shall be done in the future; but that the said
Deputy had replied, that, having been commissioned by the Chief
Inquisitor for the City and Diocese of Rouen only, and the actual
Process being deduced by Us in a territory which hath been ceded to Us
by the Metropolitan Chapter, by reason of Our Ordinary Jurisdiction, as
Bishop of Beauvais, he had thought it right to avoid all nullity and
also for the peace of his own conscience, to refuse to join himself with
Us, in the quality of Judge, until he should receive from the Chief
Inquisitor a Commission and more extended powers: that, nevertheless, he
would have no objection to see the trial continue without interruption.
After having heard Us make this narration, the said Deputy, being
present, declared, addressing himself to Us, “That which you have just
said is true. It has been, as much as in me lies, and still is,
agreeable to me that you should continue the Trial.”
Then the said Jeanne was brought before Us.
We warned and required her, on pain of law, to make oath as she had done
the day before and to swear simply and absolutely to speak truth on all
things in respect of which she should be asked; to which she answered:
“I swore yesterday: that should be enough.”
Again We required her to swear: we said to her, not even a prince,
required to swear in a matter of faith, can refuse.
“I made oath to you yesterday,” she answered, “that should be quite
enough for you: you burden me over-much!”
Finally she made oath to speak truth on _that which touches the Faith_.
Then Maître Jean Beaupère, a well-known Professor of Theology, did, by
Our order, question the said Jeanne. This he did as follows:
“First of all, I exhort you, as you have so sworn, to tell the truth on
that which I am about to ask you.”
“You may well ask me some things on which I shall tell you the truth and
some on which I shall not tell it you. If you were well informed about
me, you would wish to have me out of your hands. I have done nothing
except by revelation.”
“How old were you when you left your father’s house?”
“On the subject of my age I cannot vouch.”
“In your youth, did you learn any trade?”
“Yes, I learnt to spin and to sew; in sewing and spinning I fear no
woman in Rouen. For dread of the Burgundians, I left my father’s house
and went to the town of Neufchâteau,[10] in Lorraine, to the house of a
woman named La Rousse, where I sojourned about fifteen days. When I was
at home with my father, I employed myself with the ordinary cares of the
house. I did not go to the fields with the sheep and the other animals.
Every year I confessed myself to my own Curé, and, when he was
prevented, to another Priest with his permission. Sometimes, also, two
or three times, I confessed to the Mendicant Friars; this was at
Neufchâteau. At Easter I received the Sacrament of the Eucharist.”
“Have you received the Sacrament of the Eucharist at any other Feast but
Easter?”
“Pass that by [_Passez outre_]. I was thirteen when I had a Voice from
God for my help and guidance. The first time that I heard this Voice, I
was very much frightened; it was mid-day, in the summer, in my father’s
garden. I had not fasted the day before. I heard this Voice to my right,
towards the Church; rarely do I hear it without its being accompanied
also by a light. This light comes from the same side as the Voice.
Generally it is a great light. Since I came into France I have often
heard this Voice.”
“But how could you see this light that you speak of, when the light was
at the side?”
To this question she answered nothing, but went on to something else.
“If I were in a wood, I could easily hear the Voice which came to me. It
seemed to me to come from lips I should reverence. I believe it was sent
me from God. When I heard it for the third time, I recognized that it
was the Voice of an Angel. This Voice has always guarded me well, and I
have always understood it; it instructed me to be good and to go often
to Church; it told me it was necessary for me to come into France. You
ask me under what form this Voice appeared to me? You will hear no more
of it from me this time. It said to me two or three times a week: ‘You
must go into France.’ My father knew nothing of my going. The Voice said
to me: ‘Go into France!’ I could stay no longer. It said to me: ‘Go,
raise the siege which is being made before the City of Orleans. ‘Go!’ it
added, ‘to Robert de Baudricourt,[11] Captain of Vaucouleurs: he will
furnish you with an escort to accompany you.’ And I replied that I was
but a poor girl, who knew nothing of riding or fighting. I went to my
uncle and said that I wished to stay near him for a time. I remained
there eight days. I said to him, ‘I must go to Vaucouleurs.’[12] He took
me there. When I arrived, I recognized Robert de Baudricourt, although I
had never seen him. I knew him, thanks to my Voice, which made me
recognize him. I said to Robert, ‘I must go into France!’ Twice Robert
refused to hear me, and repulsed me. The third time, he received me, and
furnished me with men;[13] the Voice had told me it would be thus. The
Duke of Lorraine[14] gave orders that I should be taken to him. I went
there. I told him that I wished to go into France. The Duke asked me
questions about his health; but I said of that I knew nothing. I spoke
to him little of my journey. I told him he was to send his son with me,
together with some people to conduct me to France, and that I would pray
to God for his health. I had gone to him with a safe-conduct: from
thence I returned to Vaucouleurs. From Vaucouleurs I departed, dressed
as a man, armed with a sword given me by Robert de Baudricourt, but
without other arms. I had with me a Knight,[15] a Squire, and four
servants, with whom I reached the town of Saint Urbain, where I slept in
an Abbey. On the way, I passed through Auxerre, where I heard Mass in
the principal Church. Thenceforward I often heard my Voices.”
“Who counselled you to take a man’s dress?”
To this question she several times refused to answer. In the end, she
said: “With that I charge no one.” Many times she varied in her answers
to this question. Then she said:
“Robert de Baudricourt made those who went with me swear to conduct me
well and safely. ‘Go,’ said Robert de Baudricourt to me, ‘Go! and let
come what may!’ I know well that God loves the Duke of Orleans; I have
had more revelations about the Duke of Orleans than about any man alive,
except my King. It was necessary for me to change my woman’s garments
for a man’s dress. My counsel thereon said well. I sent a letter to the
English before Orleans,[16] to make them leave, as may be seen in a copy
of my letter which has been read to me in this City of Rouen; there are,
nevertheless, two or three words in this copy which were not in my
letter. Thus, ‘Surrender to the Maid,’ should be replaced by ‘Surrender
to the King.’ The words, ‘body for body’ and ‘chieftain in war’ were not
in my letter at all.[17]
“I went without hindrance to the King. Having arrived at the village of
Saint Catherine de Fierbois, I sent for the first time to the Castle of
Chinon,[18] where the King was. I got there towards mid-day, and lodged
first at an inn. After dinner, I went to the King, who was at the
Castle. When I entered the room where he was I recognized him among many
others by the counsel of my Voice, which revealed him to me. I told him
that I wished to go and make war on the English.”
“When the Voice shewed you the King, was there any light?”
“Pass on.”
“Did you see an Angel over the King?”
“Spare me. Pass on. Before the King set me to work, he had many
apparitions and beautiful revelations.”
“What revelations and apparitions had the King?”
“I will not tell you; it is not yet time to answer you about them; but
send to the King, and he will tell you. The Voice had promised me that,
as soon I came to the King, he would receive me. Those of my party knew
well that the Voice had been sent me from God; they have seen and known
this Voice, I am sure of it. My King and many others have also heard and
seen the Voices which came to me: there were there Charles de
Bourbon[19] and two or three others. There is not a day when I do not
hear this Voice; and I have much need of it. But never have I asked of
it any recompense but the salvation of my soul. The Voice told me to
remain at Saint-Denis, in France; I wished to do so, but, against my
will, the Lords made me leave. If I had not been wounded, I should never
have left. After having quitted Saint-Denis, I was wounded in the
trenches before Paris;[20] but I was cured in five days. It is true that
I caused an assault to be made before Paris.”
“Was it a Festival that day?”
“I think it was certainly a Festival.”
“Is it a good thing to make an assault on a Festival?”
“Pass on.”
And as it appeared that enough had been done for to-day, We have
postponed the affair to Saturday next, at 8 o’clock in the morning.
_Saturday, 24th February, in the same place. The Bishop and 62 Assessors
present._
In their presence We did require the aforenamed Jeanne to swear to speak
the truth simply and absolutely on the questions to be addressed to her,
without adding any restriction to her oath. We did three times thus
admonish her. She answered:
“Give me leave to speak. By my faith! you may well ask me such things as
I will not tell you. Perhaps on many of the things you may ask me I
shall not tell you truly, especially on those that touch on my
revelations; for you may constrain me to say things that I have sworn
not to say; then I should be perjured, which you ought not to wish.”
[Addressing the Bishop:] “I tell you, take good heed of what you say,
you, who are my Judge;[21] you take a great responsibility in thus
charging me. I should say that it is enough to have sworn twice.”
“Will you swear, simply and absolutely?”
“You may surely do without this. I have sworn enough already twice. All
the clergy of Rouen and Paris cannot condemn me if it be not law. Of my
coming into France I will speak the truth willingly; but I will not say
all: the space of eight days would not suffice.”
“Take the advice of the Assessors, whether you should swear or not.”
“Of my coming I will willingly speak truth, but not of the rest; speak
no more of it to me.”
“You render yourself liable to suspicion in not being willing to swear
to speak the truth absolutely.”
“Speak to me no more of it. Pass on.”
“We again require you to swear, precisely and absolutely.”
“I will say willingly what I know, and yet not all. I am come in God’s
name; I have nothing to do here; let me be sent back to God, whence I
came.”
“Again we summon and require you to swear, under pain of going forth
charged with that which is imputed to you.”
“Pass on.”
“A last time we require you to swear, and urgently admonish you to speak
the truth on all that concerns your trial; you expose yourself to a
great peril by such a refusal.”
“I am ready to speak truth on what I know touching the trial.”
And in this manner was she sworn.
Then, by Our order, she was questioned by Maître Jean Beaupère, a
well-known Doctor, as follows:
“How long is it since you have had food and drink?”[22]
“Since yesterday afternoon.”
“How long is it since you heard your Voices?”
“I heard them yesterday and to-day.”
“At what hour yesterday did you hear them?”
“Yesterday I heard them three times,—once in the morning, once at
Vespers, and again when the Ave Maria rang in the evening. I have even
heard them oftener than that.”
“What were you doing yesterday morning when the Voice came to you?”
“I was asleep: the Voice awoke me.”
“Was it by touching you on the arm?”
“It awoke me without touching me.”
“Was it in your room?”
“Not so far as I know, but in the Castle.”
“Did you thank it? and did you go on your knees?”
“I did thank it. I was sitting on the bed; I joined my hands; I implored
its help. The Voice said to me: ‘Answer boldly.’ I asked advice as to
how I should answer, begging it to entreat for this the counsel of the
Lord. The Voice said to me: ‘Answer boldly; God will help thee.’ Before
I had prayed it to give me counsel, it said to me several words I could
not readily understand. After I was awake, it said to me: ‘Answer
boldly.’” [Addressing herself to Us, the said Bishop:] “You say you are
my judge. Take care what you are doing; for in truth I am sent by God,
and you place yourself in great danger.”
Maître Beaupère, continuing, said:
“Has this Voice sometimes varied in its counsel?”
“I have never found it give two contrary opinions.... This night again I
heard it say: ‘Answer boldly.’”
“Has your Voice forbidden you to say everything on what you are asked?”
“I will not answer you about that. I have revelations touching the King
that I will not tell you.”
“Has it forbidden you to tell those revelations?”
“I have not been advised about these things. Give me a delay of fifteen
days,[23] and I will answer you. If my Voice has forbidden me, what
would you say about it? Believe me, it is not men who have forbidden me.
To-day I will not answer: I do not know if I ought, or not; it has not
been revealed to me. But as firmly as I believe in the Christian Faith
and that God hath redeemed us from the pains of Hell, that Voice hath
come to me from God and by His Command.”
“The Voice that you say appears to you, does it come directly from an
Angel, or directly from God; or does it come from one of the Saints?”
“The Voice comes to me from God; and I do not tell you all I know about
it: I have far greater fear of doing wrong in saying to you things that
would displease it, than I have of answering you. As to this question, I
beg you to grant me delay.”
“Is it displeasing to God to speak the truth?”
“My Voices have entrusted to me certain things to tell to the King, not
to you. This very night they told me many things for the welfare of my
King, which I would he might know at once, even if I should drink no
wine until Easter, ... the King would be the more joyful at his dinner!”
“Can you not so deal with your Voices that they will convey this news to
your King?”
“I know not if the Voice would obey, and if it be God’s Will. If it
please God, He will know how to reveal it to the King, and I shall be
well content.”
“Why does not this Voice speak any more to your King, as it did when you
were in his presence?”
“I do not know if it be the Will of God. Without the grace of God I
should not know how to do anything.”
“Has your counsel revealed to you that you will escape from prison?”
“I have nothing to tell you about that.”
“This night, did your Voice give you counsel and advice as to what you
should answer?”
“If it did give me advice and counsel thereon, I did not understand.”
“The last two occasions on which you have heard this Voice, did a
brightness come?”
“The brightness comes at the same time as the Voice.”
“Besides the Voice, do you see anything?”
“I will not tell you all; I have not leave; my oath does not touch on
that. My Voice is good and to be honoured. I am not bound to answer you
about it. I request that the points on which I do not now answer may be
given me in writing.”
“The Voice from whom you ask counsel, has it a face and eyes?”
“You shall not know yet. There is a saying among children, that
‘Sometimes one is hanged for speaking the truth.’”
“Do you know if you are in the grace of God?”
“If I am not, may God place me there; if I am, may God so keep me. I
should be the saddest in all the world if I knew that I were not in the
grace of God. But if I were in a state of sin, do you think the Voice
would come to me? I would that every one could hear the Voice as I hear
it. I think I was about thirteen when it came to me for the first time.”
“In your youth, did you play in the fields with the other children?”
“I certainly went sometimes, I do not know at what age.”
“Do the Domremy people side with the Burgundians or with the opposite
party?”
“I knew only one Burgundian[24] at Domremy: I should have been quite
willing for them to cut off his head—always had it pleased God.”
“The Maxey people, were they Burgundians, or opposed to the
Burgundians?”
“They were Burgundians. As soon as I knew that my Voices were for the
King of France, I loved the Burgundians no more. The Burgundians will
have war unless they do what they ought; I know it by my Voice. The
English were already in France when my Voices began to come to me. I do
not remember being with the children of Domremy when they went to fight
against those of Maxey for the French side: but I certainly saw the
Domremy children who had fought with those of Maxey coming back many
times, wounded and bleeding.”
“Had you in your youth any intention of fighting the Burgundians?”
“I had a great will and desire that my King should have his own
Kingdom.”
“When you had to come into France, did you wish to be a man?”
“I have answered this elsewhere.”
“Did you not take the animals to the fields?”
“I have already answered this also. When I was bigger and had come to
years of discretion, I did not look after them generally; but I helped
to take them to the meadows and to a Castle called the Island,[25] for
fear of the soldiers. I do not remember if I led them in my childhood or
no.”
“What have you to say about a certain tree which is near to your
village?”
“Not far from Domremy there is a tree[26] that they call ‘The Ladies’
Tree’—others call it ‘The Fairies’ Tree’; near by, there is a spring
where people sick of the fever come to drink, as I have heard, and to
seek water to restore their health. I have seen them myself come thus;
but I do not know if they were healed. I have heard that the sick, once
cured, come to this tree[27] to walk about. It is a beautiful tree, a
beech, from which comes the ‘beau may’—it belongs to the Seigneur Pierre
de Bourlement,[28] Knight. I have sometimes been to play with the young
girls, to make garlands for Our Lady of Domremy. Often I have heard the
old folk—they are not of my lineage—say that the fairies haunt this
tree. I have also heard one of my Godmothers, named Jeanne, wife of the
Maire Aubery of Domremy, say that she has seen fairies there; whether it
be true, I do not know. As for me, I never saw them that I know of. If I
saw them anywhere else, I do not know. I have seen the young girls
putting garlands on the branches of this tree, and I myself have
sometimes put them there with my companions; sometimes we took these
garlands away, sometimes we left them. Ever since I knew that it was
necessary for me to come into France, I have given myself up as little
as possible to these games and distractions. Since I was grown up, I do
not remember to have danced there. I may have danced there formerly,
with the other children. I have sung there more than danced. There is
also a wood called the Oak-wood, which can be seen from my father’s
door; it is not more than half-a-league away. I do not know, and have
never heard if the fairies appear there; but my brother told me that it
is said in the neighbourhood: ‘Jeannette received her mission at the
Fairies’ Tree.’ It is not the case; and I told him the contrary. When I
came before the King, several people asked me if there were not in my
country a wood, called the Oak-wood, because there were prophecies[29]
which said that from the neighbourhood of this wood would come a maid
who should do marvellous things. I put no faith in that.”
“Would you like to have a woman’s dress?”
“Give me one, and I will take it and begone; otherwise, no. I am content
with what I have, since it pleases God that I wear it.”
This done, We stayed the interrogation, and put off the remainder to
Tuesday next, on which day We have convoked all the Assessors, at the
same place and hour.
_Tuesday, February 27th, in the same place. The Bishop and 54 Assessors
present._
In their presence, We required the said Jeanne to swear to tell the
truth on everything touching her Trial.
“Willingly will I swear,” she answered, “to tell the truth on everything
touching the trial, but _not upon all that I know_.”
We required her again to speak the truth on all which should be asked of
her.
“You ought to be satisfied,” she answered. “I have sworn enough.”
Then, by Our order, Maître Beaupère began to question her. And first he
inquired of her, how she had been since the Saturday before?
“You can see for yourself how I am. I am as well as can be.”
“Do you fast every day this Lent?”
“Is that in the Case? Well, yes! I have fasted every day during this
Lent.”
“Have you heard your Voices since Saturday?”
“Yes, truly, many times.”
“Did you hear them on Saturday in this hall, where you were being
examined?”
“That is not in your Case. Very well, then—yes! I did hear them.”
“What did your Voice say to you last Saturday?”
“I did not quite understand it; and up to the moment when I returned to
my room, I heard nothing that I may repeat to you.”
“What did it say to you in your room, on your return?”
“It said to me, ‘Answer them boldly.’ I take counsel with my Voice about
what you ask me. I will tell willingly whatever I shall have permission
from God to reveal; as to the revelations concerning the King of France,
I will not tell them without the permission of my Voice.”
“Has your Voice forbidden you to tell everything?”
“I did not quite understand it.”
“What did your Voice last say to you?”
“I asked counsel about certain things that you had asked me.”
“Did it give you counsel?”
“On some points, yes; on others you may ask me for an answer that I
shall not give, not having had leave. For, if I answered without leave,
I should no longer have my Voices as warrant. When I have permission
from Our Saviour, I shall not fear to speak, because I shall have
warrant.”
“This Voice that speaks to you, is it that of an Angel, or of a Saint,
or from God direct?”
“It is the Voice of Saint Catherine and of Saint Margaret.[30] Their
faces are adorned with beautiful crowns, very rich and precious. To tell
you this I have leave from Our Lord. If you doubt this, send to
Poitiers, where I was examined before.”
“How do you know if these were the two Saints? How do you distinguish
one from the other?”
“I know quite well it is they; and I can easily distinguish one from the
other.”
“How do you distinguish them?”
“By the greeting they give me. It is seven years now since they have
undertaken to guide me. I know them well because they were named to me.”
“Are these two Saints dressed in the same stuff?”
“I will tell you no more just now; I have not permission to reveal it.
If you do not believe me, go to Poitiers. There are some revelations
which come to the King of France, and not to you, who are questioning
me.”
“Are they of the same age?”
“I have not leave to say.”
“Do they speak at the same time, or one after the other?”
“I have not leave to say; nevertheless, I have always had counsel from
them both.”
“Which of them appeared to you first?”
“I did not distinguish them at first. I knew well enough once, but I
have forgotten. If I had leave, I would tell you willingly: it is
written in the Register at Poitiers.[31] I have also received comfort
from Saint Michael.”
“Which of these two appearances came to you first?”
“Saint Michael.”
“Is it a long time since you first heard the voice of Saint Michael?”
“I did not say anything to you about the _voice_ of Saint Michael; I say
I have had great comfort from him.”
“What was the first Voice that came to you when you were about
thirteen?”
“It was Saint Michael: I saw him before my eyes; he was not alone, but
quite surrounded by the Angels of Heaven. I came into France only by the
order of God.”
“Did you see Saint Michael and these Angels bodily and in reality?”
“I saw them with my bodily eyes as well as I see you; when they went
from me, I wept. I should have liked to be taken away with them.”
“And what was Saint Michael like?”
“You will have no more answer from me; and I am not yet free to tell
you.”
“What did Saint Michael say to you this first time?”
“You will have no more answer about it from me to-day. My Voices said to
me, ‘Reply boldly.’ Once I told the King all that had been revealed to
me, because it concerned him; but I am no longer free to reveal to you
all that Saint Michael said to me.” [To Maître Beaupère:] “I wish you
could get a copy of this book at Poitiers, if it please God.”
“Have your Voices forbidden you to make known your revelations without
leave from them?”
“I will answer you no more about it. On all that I have leave, I will
answer willingly. I have not quite understood if my Voices have
forbidden me to answer.”
“What sign do you give that you have this revelation from God, and that
it is Saint Catherine and Saint Margaret that talk with you?”
“I have told you that it is they; believe me if you will.”
“Are you forbidden to say?”
“I have not quite understood if this is forbidden or not.”
“How can you make sure of distinguishing such things as you are free to
tell, from those which are forbidden?”
“On some points I have asked leave, and on others I have obtained it. I
would rather have been torn asunder by four horses than have come into
France without God’s leave.”
“Was it God who prescribed to you the dress of a man?”
“What concerns this dress is a small thing—less than nothing. I did not
take it by the advice of any man in the world. I did not take this dress
or do anything but by the command of Our Lord and of the Angels.”
“Did it appear to you that this command to take man’s dress was lawful?”
“All I have done is by Our Lord’s command. If I had been told to take
some other, I should have done it; because it would have been His
command.”
“Did you not take this garment by order of Robert de Baudricourt?”
“No.”
“Do you think it was well to take a man’s dress?”
“All that I have done by the order of Our Lord I think has been well
done; I look for good surety and good help in it.”
“In this particular case, this taking of man’s dress, do you think you
did well?”
“I have done nothing in the world but by the order of God.”
“When you saw this Voice coming to you, was there a light?”
“There was plenty of light everywhere, as was seemly.” [Addressing
herself to Maître Beaupère:] “It does not all come to you!”
“Was there an angel over the head of your King when you saw him for the
first time?”
“By Our Lady! if there were, I know nothing of it; I did not see it.”
“Was there a light?”
“There were more than three hundred Knights and more than fifty torches,
without counting the spiritual light.”
“Why was your King able to put faith in your words?”
“He had good signs, and the clergy bore me witness.”
“What revelations has your King had?”
“You will not have them from me this year. During three weeks I was
questioned by the clergy at Chinon and at Poitiers. Before he was
willing to believe me, the King had a sign of my mission; and the clergy
of my party were of opinion that there was nothing but good in my
mission.”
“Have you been to Saint Catherine de Fierbois?”[32]
“Yes, and I heard there three Masses in one day. Afterwards, I went to
the Castle of Chinon, whence I sent letters to the King, to know if I
should be allowed to see him; saying, that I had travelled a hundred and
fifty leagues to come to his help, and that I knew many things good for
him. I think I remember there was in my letter the remark that I should
recognize him among all others. I had a sword I had taken at
Vaucouleurs. Whilst I was at Tours, or at Chinon, I sent to seek for a
sword which was in the Church of Saint Catherine de Fierbois, behind the
altar; it was found there at once; the sword was in the ground, and
rusty; upon it were five crosses; I knew by my Voice where it was. I had
never seen the man who went to seek for it. I wrote to the Priests of
the place, that it might please them to let me have this sword, and they
sent it to me. It was under the earth, not very deeply buried, behind
the altar, so it seemed to me: I do not know exactly if it were before
or behind the altar, but I believe I wrote saying that it was at the
back. As soon as it was found, the Priests of the Church rubbed it, and
the rust fell off at once without effort. It was an armourer of Tours
who went to look for it. The Priests of Fierbois made me a present of a
scabbard; those of Tours, of another; one was of crimson velvet, the
other of cloth-of-gold. I had a third made of leather, very strong. When
I was taken prisoner I had not got this sword. I always bore the sword
of Fierbois from the time I had it up to my departure from
Saint-Denis,[33] after the attack on Paris.”
“What blessing did you invoke, or have invoked, on this sword?”
“I neither blessed it, nor had it blessed: I should not have known how
to set about it. I cared very much for this sword, because it had been
found in the Church of Saint Catherine, whom I love so much.”
“Have you been at Coulange-les-Vineuses?”[34]
“I do not know.”
“Have you sometimes placed your sword upon an altar; and, in so placing
it, was it that your sword might be more fortunate?”
“Not that I know of.”
“Have you sometimes prayed that it might be more fortunate?”
“It is good to know that I wished my armour might have good fortune!”
“Had you your sword when you were taken prisoner?”
“No, I had one which had been taken on a Burgundian.”
“Where was the sword of Fierbois left?”
“I offered at Saint-Denis a sword and armour;[35] but it was not this
sword. I had that at Lagny; from Lagny to Compiègne, I bore the sword of
this Burgundian; it was a good sword for fighting—very good for giving
stout buffets and hard clouts. To tell what became of the other sword
does not concern this Case, and I will not answer about it now. My
brothers have all my goods—my horses,[36] my sword, so far as I know,
and the rest, which are worth more than twelve thousand crowns.”
“When you were at Orleans, had you a standard, or banner;[37] and of
what colour was it?”
“I had a banner of which the field was sprinkled with lilies; the world
was painted there, with an angel at each side; it was white, of the
white cloth called ‘boccassin’; there was written above, I believe,
‘Jhesus Maria’; it was fringed with silk.”
“The words ‘Jhesus Maria’ were they written above, below, or on the
side?”
“At the side, I believe.”
“Which did you care for most, your banner or your sword?”
“Better, forty times better, my banner than my sword!”
“Who made you get this painting done upon your banner?”
“I have told you often enough, that I had nothing done but by the
command of God. It was I, myself, who bore this banner, when I attacked
the enemy, to save killing any one, for I have never killed any one.”
“What force did your King give you when he set you to work?”
“He gave me ten or twelve thousand men. First, I went to Orleans, to the
fortress of Saint Loup, and afterwards to that of the Bridge.”
“Which fortress was being attacked when you made your men retire?”
“I do not remember. I was quite certain of raising the siege of Orleans;
I had revelation of it. I told this to the King before going there.”
“Before the assault, did you not tell your followers that you alone
would receive the arrows, cross-bolts, and stones, thrown by the
machines and cannons?”
“No; a hundred and even more of my people were wounded. I had said to
them: ‘Be fearless, and you will raise the siege.’ Then, in the attack
on the Bridge fortress, I was wounded in the neck by an arrow or
cross-bolt;[38] but I had great comfort from Saint Catherine, and was
cured in less than a fortnight. I did not interrupt for this either my
riding or work. I knew quite well that I should be wounded; I had told
the King so, but that, notwithstanding, I should go on with my work.
This had been revealed to me by the Voices of my two Saints,[39] the
blessed Catherine and the blessed Margaret. It was I who first planted a
ladder against the fortress of the Bridge, and it was in raising this
ladder that I was wounded in the neck by this cross-bolt.”
“Why did you not accept the treaty with the Captain of Jargeau?”[40]
“It was the Lords of my party who answered the English that they should
not have the fortnight’s delay which they asked, telling them that they
were to retire at once, they and their horses. As for me, I told them of
Jargeau to retire if they wished, with their doublets,[41] and their
lives safe; if not, they would be taken by assault.”
“Had you any revelation from your counsel, that is to say from your
Voices, to know whether it was right or not to give this fortnight’s
respite?”
“I do not remember.”
At this point, the rest of the enquiry hath been postponed to another
day. We have fixed for Thursday the next Meeting, at the same place.
_Thursday, March 1st, in the same place, the Bishop and 58 Assessors
present._
In their presence, We summoned and required Jeanne simply and absolutely
to take her oath to speak the truth on that which should be asked her.
“I am ready,” she replied, “as I have already declared to you, to speak
the truth on all I know touching this Case; but I know many things which
do not touch on this Case, and of which there is no need to speak to
you. I will speak willingly and in all truth on _all which touches this
Case_.”
We again summoned and required her; and she replied:
“What I know in truth _touching the Case_, I will tell willingly.”
And in this wise did she swear, her hands on the Holy Gospels. Then she
said:
“On what I know touching the Case, I will speak the truth willingly; I
will tell you as much as I would to the Pope of Rome, if I were before
him.”
Then she was examined as follows:
“What do you say of our Lord the Pope? and whom do you believe to be the
true Pope?”
“Are there two of them?”
“Did you not receive a letter from the Count d’Armagnac, asking you
which of the three Pontiffs[42] he ought to obey?”
“The Count did in fact write to me on this subject. I replied, among
other things, that when I should be at rest, in Paris or elsewhere, I
would give him an answer. I was just at that moment mounting my horse
when I sent this reply.”
At this juncture, We ordered to be read the copy of the Count’s letter
and of Jeanne’s reply, which are thus expressed:
“My very dear Lady—I humbly commend myself to you, and pray, for God’s
sake, that, considering the divisions which are at this present time in
the Holy Church Universal on the question of the Popes, for there are
now three contending for the Papacy—one residing at Rome, calling
himself Martin V., whom all Christian Kings obey; another, living at
Paniscole, in the Kingdom of Valence, who calls himself Clement VII.;
the third, no one knows where he lives, unless it be the Cardinal Saint
Etienne and some few people with him, but he calls himself Pope Benedict
XIV. The first, who styles himself Pope Martin, was elected at Constance
with the consent of all Christian nations; he who is called Clement was
elected at Paniscole, after the death of Pope Benedict XIII., by three
of his Cardinals; the third, who dubs himself Benedict XIV., was elected
secretly at Paniscole, even by the Cardinal Saint Etienne. You will have
the goodness to pray Our Saviour Jesus Christ that by His infinite Mercy
He may by you declare to us which of the three named is Pope in truth,
and whom it pleases Him that we should obey, now and henceforward,
whether he who is called Martin, he who is called Clement, or he who is
called Benedict; and in whom we are to believe, if secretly, or by any
dissembling, or publicly; for we are all ready to do the will and
pleasure of Our Lord Jesus Christ.
“Yours in all things,
“COUNT D’ARMAGNAC.”
Jeanne’s Reply.
“_Jhesus Maria._
“Count d’Armagnac, my very good and dear friend, I, Jeanne, the Maid,
acquaint you that your message has come before me, which tells me that
you have sent at once to know from me which of the three Popes,
mentioned in your memorial, you should believe. This thing I cannot tell
you truly at present, until I am at rest in Paris or elsewhere; for I am
now too much hindered by affairs of war; but when you hear that I am in
Paris, send a message to me and I will inform you in truth whom you
should believe, and what I shall know by the counsel of my Righteous and
Sovereign Lord, the King of all the World, and of what you should do to
the extent of my power. I commend you to God. May God have you in His
keeping! Written at Compiègne, August 22nd.”
Then the Enquiry proceeded thus:
“Is this really the reply that you made?”
“I deem that I might have made this answer in part, but not all.”
“Did you say that you might know, by the counsel of the King of Kings,
what the Count should hold on this subject?”
“I know nothing about it.”
“Had you any doubt about whom the Count should obey?”
“I did not know how to inform him on this question, as to whom he should
obey, because the Count himself asked to know whom _God_ wished him to
obey. But for myself, I hold and believe that we should obey our Lord
the Pope who is in Rome. I told the messenger of the Count some things
which are not in this copy; and, if the messenger had not gone off
immediately, he would have been thrown into the water—not by me,
however. As to the Count’s enquiry, desiring to know whom God wished him
to obey, I answered that I did not know; but I sent him messages on
several things which have not been put in writing. As for me, I believe
in our Lord the Pope who is at Rome.”
“Why did you write that you would give an answer elsewhere if you
believed in the Pope who is at Rome?”
“That answer had reference to other things than the matter of the
sovereign Pontiffs.”
“Did you say that on the matter of the three sovereign Pontiffs you
would have counsel?”
“I never wrote nor gave command to write on the matter of the three
sovereign Pontiffs.” And this answer she supported by oath.
“Are you in the habit of putting the Names ‘Jhesus Maria,’ with a cross,
at the top of your letters?”
“On some I put it, on others not; sometimes I put a cross as a sign for
those of my party to whom I wrote so that they should not do as the
letters said.”
Here a letter was read from Jeanne to our Lord the King, to the Duke of
Bedford, and others, of the following tenour:—
“_Jhesus Maria._
“King of England; and you, Duke of Bedford, who call yourself Regent of
the Kingdom of France; you, William de la Pole, Earl of Suffolk; John,
Lord Talbot; and you, Thomas, Lord Scales, who call yourselves
Lieutenants to the said Duke of Bedford: give satisfaction to the King
of Heaven: give up to the Maid, who is sent hither by God, the King of
Heaven, the keys of all the good towns in France which you have taken
and broken into. She is come here by the order of God to reclaim the
Blood Royal. She is quite ready to make peace, if you are willing to
give her satisfaction, by giving and paying back to France what you have
taken. And as for you, archers, companions-in-arms, gentlemen and others
who are before the town of Orleans, return to your own countries, by
God’s order; and if this be not done, then hear the message of the Maid,
who will shortly come upon you, to your very great hurt. King of
England, I am a Chieftain of war and, if this be not done, wheresoever I
find your followers in France, I will make them leave, willingly or
unwillingly; if they will not obey, I will have them put to death. I am
sent here by God, the King of Heaven, body for body, to drive them all
out of the whole of France. And if they will obey, I will have mercy on
them. And do not think in yourselves that you will get possession of the
realm of France from God the King of Heaven, Son of the Blessed Mary;
for King Charles will gain it, the true heir: for God, the King of
Heaven, so wills it, and it is revealed to him [the King] by the Maid,
and he will enter Paris with a good company. If you will not believe the
message of God and of the Maid and act aright, in whatsoever place we
find you we will enter therein and make so great a disturbance that for
a thousand years none in France will be so great. And believe surely
that the King of Heaven will send greater power to the Maid, to her and
her good men-at-arms, than you can bring to the attack; and, when it
comes to blows, we shall see who has the better right from the God of
Heaven. You, Duke of Bedford, the Maid prays and enjoins you, that you
do not come to grievous hurt. If you will give her satisfactory pledges,
you may yet join with her, so that the French may do the fairest deed
that has ever yet been done for Christendom. And answer, if you wish to
make peace in the City of Orleans; if this be not done, you may be
shortly reminded of it, to your very great hurt. _Written this Tuesday
in Holy Week_, March 22nd, 1428.”
“Do you know this letter?”
“Yes, excepting three words. In place of ‘give up to the Maid,’ it
should be ‘give up to the King.’ The words ‘Chieftain of war’ and ‘body
for body’ were not in the letter I sent. None of the Lords ever dictated
these letters to me; it was I myself alone who dictated them before
sending them. Nevertheless, I always shewed them to some of my party.
Before seven years are passed, the English will lose a greater wager
than they have already done at Orleans; they will lose everything in
France.[43] The English will have in France a greater loss than they
have ever had, and that by a great victory which God will send to the
French.”
“How do you know this?”
“I know it well by revelation, which has been made to me, and that this
will happen within seven years; and I am sore vexed that it is deferred
so long. I know it by revelation, as clearly as I know that you are
before me at this moment.”
“When will this happen?”
“I know neither the day nor the hour.”
“In what year will it happen?”
“You will not have any more. Nevertheless, I heartily wish it might be
before Saint John’s Day.”
“Did you not say that this would happen before Martinmas, in winter?”
“I said that before Martinmas many things would be seen, and that the
English might perhaps be overthrown.”[44]
“What did you say to John Gris, your keeper, on the subject of the Feast
of Saint Martin?”
“I have told you.”
“Through whom did you know that this would happen?”
“Through Saint Catherine and Saint Margaret.”
“Was Saint Gabriel with Saint Michael when he came to you?”
“I do not remember.”
“Since last Tuesday, have you had any converse with Saint Catherine and
Saint Margaret?”
“Yes, but I do not know at what time.”
“What day?”
“Yesterday and to-day; there is never a day that I do not hear them.”
“Do you always see them in the same dress?”
“I see them always under the same form, and their heads are richly
crowned. I do not speak of the rest of their clothing: I know nothing of
their dresses.”
“How do you know whether the object that appears to you is male or
female?”
“I know well enough. I recognize them by their voices, as they revealed
themselves to me; I know nothing but by the revelation and order of
God.”
“What part of their heads do you see?”
“The face.”
“These saints who shew themselves to you, have they any hair?”
“It is well to know they have.”
“Is there anything between their crowns and their hair?”
“No.”
“Is their hair long and hanging down?”
“I know nothing about it. I do not know if they have arms or other
members. They speak very well and in very good language; I hear them
very well.”
“How do they speak if they have no members?”
“I refer me to God. The voice is beautiful, sweet, and low; it speaks in
the French tongue.”
“Does not Saint Margaret speak English?”
“Why should she speak English, when she is not on the English side?”
“On these crowned heads, were there rings?—in the ears or elsewhere?”
“I know nothing about it.”
“Have you any rings yourself?”
[Addressing herself to Us, the Bishop:] “You have one of mine; give it
back to me. The Burgundians have another of them. I pray you, if you
have my ring, shew it to me.”
“Who gave you the ring which the Burgundians [now] have?”
“My father or my mother. I think the Names ‘Jhesus Maria’ are engraved
on it. I do not know who had them written there; there is not, I should
say, any stone in the ring; it was given to me at Domremy. It was my
brother who gave me the other—the one you have.” [Continuing to address
herself to Us, the Bishop:] “I charge you to give it to the Church. I
never cured any one with any of my rings.”
“Did Saint Catherine and Saint Margaret speak to you under the tree of
which mention has been made?”
“I know nothing of it.”
“Did they speak to you at the spring, which is near the tree?”
“Yes, I have heard them there; but what they said then, I do not know.”
“What did they promise you, there or elsewhere?”
“They have never promised me anything, except by God’s leave.”
“But still, what promises have they made to you?”
“That is not in your Case: not at all. Upon other subjects, they told me
that my King would be reestablished in his Kingdom, whether his enemies
willed it or no; they told me also that they would lead me to Paradise:
I begged it of them, indeed.”
“Did you have any other promise from them?”
“There was another, but I will not tell it; that does not touch on the
Case. In three months I will tell you the other promise.”
“Have your Voices said that before three months you will be delivered
from prison?”
“That is not in your Case. Nevertheless I do not know when I shall be
delivered. But those who wish to send me out of the world may well go
before me.”
“Has not your counsel told you that you will be delivered from your
actual prison?”
“Speak to me in three months, and I will answer. Moreover, ask of those
present, upon oath, if this touches on the Trial.”
We, the said Bishop, did then take the opinion of those present: and all
considered that this did touch on the Trial.
“I have already told you, you shall not know all. One day I must be
delivered. But I wish to have leave to tell you the day: it is for this
I ask delay.”
“Have your Voices forbidden you to speak the truth?”
“Do you want me to tell you what concerns the King of France? There are
a number of things that do not touch on the Case. I know well that my
King will regain the Kingdom of France. I know it as well as I know that
you are before me, seated in judgment. I should die if this revelation
did not comfort me every day.”
“What have you done with your mandrake?”[45]
“I never have had one. But I have heard that there is one near our home,
though I have never seen it. I have heard it is a dangerous and evil
thing to keep. I do not know for what it is [used].”
“Where is this mandrake of which you have heard?”
“I have heard that it is in the earth, near the tree of which I spoke
before; but I do not know the place. Above this mandrake, there was, it
is said, a hazel tree.”
“What have you heard said was the use of this mandrake?”
“To make money come; but I do not believe it. My Voice never spoke to me
of that.”
“In what likeness did Saint Michael appear to you?”
“I did not see a crown: I know nothing of his dress.”
“Was he naked?”
“Do you think God has not wherewithal to clothe him?”
“Had he hair?”
“Why should it have been cut off? I have not seen Saint Michael since I
left the Castle of Crotoy. I do not see him often. I do not know if he
has hair.”
“Has he a balance?”[46]
“I know nothing about it. It was a great joy to see him; it seemed to
me, when I saw him, that I was not in mortal sin. Saint Catherine and
Saint Margaret were pleased from time to time to receive my confession,
each in turn. If I am in mortal sin, it is without my knowing it.”
“When you confessed, did you think you were in mortal sin?”
“I do not know if I am in mortal sin, and I do not believe I have done
its works; and, if it please God, I will never so be; nor, please God,
have I ever done or ever will do deeds which charge my soul!”
“What sign did you give your King that you came from God?”
“I have always answered that you will not drag this from my lips. Go and
ask it of him.”
“Have you sworn not to reveal what shall be asked of you touching the
Trial?”
“I have already told you that I will tell you nothing of what concerns
my King. Thereon I will not speak.”
“Do you not know the sign that you gave to the King?”
“You will not know it from me.”
“But this touches on the Trial.”
“Of what I have promised to keep secret, I will tell you nothing. I have
already said, even here, that I could not tell you without perjury.”
“To whom have you promised this?”
“To Saint Catherine and Saint Margaret; and this hath been shewn to the
King. I promised them, without their asking it of me, of my own
free-will, of myself, because too many people might have questioned me
had I not promised it to my Saints.”
“When you shewed your sign to the King, were you alone with him?”
“I do not take account of any one else, although there were many people
near.”
“When you shewed this sign to the King, did you see a crown on his
head?”
“I cannot tell you without perjury.”
“Had your King a crown at Rheims?”
“I think my King took with joy the crown that he had at Rheims; but
another, much richer, would have been given him later. He acted thus to
hurry on his work, at the request of the people of the town of Rheims,
to avoid too long a charge upon them of the soldiers. If he had waited,
he would have had a crown a thousand times more rich.”
“Have you seen this richer crown?”
“I cannot tell you without incurring perjury; and, though I have not
seen it, I have heard that it is rich and valuable to a degree.”
This done, we put an end to the interrogation and postponed the
remainder to Saturday next, 8 o’clock in the morning, in the same place,
summoning all the Assessors to be present.
_Saturday, March 3rd, in the same place, the Bishop and 41 Assessors
present._
In their presence, We required the said Jeanne simply and absolutely to
swear to speak the truth on what should be asked of her. She replied:
“I am ready to swear as I have already done.”
And thus did she swear, her hands on the Holy Gospels.
Afterwards, because she had said, in previous Enquiries, that Saint
Michael had wings, but had said nothing of the body and members of Saint
Catherine and Saint Margaret, We asked her what she wished to say
thereon.
“I have told you what I know; I will answer you nothing more. I saw
Saint Michael and these two Saints so well that I know they are Saints
of Paradise.”
“Did you see anything else of them but the face?”
“I have told you what I know; but to tell you all I know, I would rather
that you made me cut my throat. All that I know _touching the Trial_ I
will tell you willingly.”
“Do you think that Saint Michael and Saint Gabriel have human heads?”
“I saw them with my eyes; and I believe it was they as firmly as I
believe there is a God.”
“Do you think that God made them in the form and fashion that you saw?”
“Yes.”
“Do you think that God did from the first create them in this form and
fashion?”
“You will have no more at present than what I have answered.”
“Do you know by revelation if you will escape?”
“That does not touch on your Case. Do you wish me to speak against
myself?”
“Have your Voices told you anything?”
“That is not in your Case. I refer me to the Case. If all concerned you,
I would tell you all. By my faith, I know neither the day nor the hour
that I shall escape!”
“Have your Voices told you anything in a general way?”
“Yes, truly, they have told me that I shall be delivered, but I know
neither the day nor the hour. They said to me: ‘Be of good courage and
keep a cheerful countenance.’”
“When you first came to the King, did he ask you if you had any
revelation about your change of dress?”
“I have answered you about that. I do not remember if I was asked. It is
written at Poitiers.”
“Do you not remember if the Masters who questioned you in the other
Consistory, some during a month, others during three weeks, questioned
you about your change of dress?”
“I do not remember. But they asked me where I had assumed this man’s
dress; and I told them it was at Vaucouleurs.”
“Did the aforesaid Masters ask you if it were by order of your Voice
that you took this dress?”
“I do not remember.”
“Did not your Queen[47] ask you, the first time you went to visit her?”
“I do not remember.”
“Did not your King, your Queen, or some of your party, tell you to take
off this man’s dress?”
“That is not in your Case.”
“Were you not so told at the Castle of Beaurevoir?”[48]
* * * * *
[Here commences the French Version, or Minute, which is collated with
the Latin Text.]
“Yes, truly; and I answered that I would not take it off without leave
from God. The Demoiselle de Luxembourg[49] and the Lady de
Beaurevoir[50] offered me a woman’s dress, or cloth to make one, telling
me to wear it. I answered them that I had not leave from Our Lord, and
that it was not yet time.”
“Did Messire Jean de Pressy[51] and others at Arras never offer you a
woman’s dress?”
“He and many others have oftentimes offered it to me.”
“Do you think that you would have done wrong or committed mortal sin by
taking a woman’s dress?”
“I did better to obey and serve my Sovereign Lord, who is God. Had I
dared to do it, I would sooner have done it at the request of these
ladies than of any other ladies in France, excepting my Queen.”
“When God revealed it to you that you should change your dress, was it
by the voice of Saint Michael, Saint Catherine, or Saint Margaret?”
“You shall not have anything more at present.”
“When your King first set you to work, and when you had your banner
made, did not the men-at-arms and others have their pennons made in the
style of yours?”
“It is well to know that the Lords retained their own arms. Some of my
companions-in-arms had them made at their pleasure; others not.”
“Of what material did they have them made? Of linen or of cloth?”
“It was of white satin; and on some there were fleur-de-lys. In my
company I had only two or three lances. But my companions-in-arms now
and then had them made like mine. They only did this to know their men
from others.”
“Did they often renew these pennons?”
“I do not know. When the lances were broken, they had new ones made.”
“Have you sometimes said that the pennons which were like yours would be
fortunate?”
“I sometimes said to my followers: ‘Go in boldly among the English!’ and
I myself did likewise.”
“Did you tell them to carry themselves boldly, and they would be
fortunate?”
“I have certainly told them what has happened and what will yet happen.”
“Did you put, or did you ever cause to be put, Holy Water on the pennons
when they were carried for the first time?”
“I know nothing of it; and if that were done, it was not by my order.”
“Did you never see any sprinkled?”
“That is not in your Case. If I ever did see any sprinkled, I am advised
not to answer about it.”
“Did your companions-in-arms never put on their pennons ‘Jhesus Maria’?”
“By my faith! I do not know.”
“Have you not yourself carried cloth, or caused it to be carried, in
procession round an altar or a church, and afterwards employed this
cloth for pennons?”
“No; and I never saw it done.”
“When you were before Jargeau, what did you bear at the back of your
helmet? Was it not something round?”[52]
“By my faith! there was nothing.”
“Did you ever know Brother Richard?”[53]
“I had not seen him when I came before Troyes.”
“What countenance did Brother Richard give you?”
“I suppose after the fashion of the town of Troyes who sent him to me,
saying that they feared Jeanne was not a thing that came to them from
God. When he approached me, Brother Richard made the sign of the Cross
and sprinkled Holy Water; and I said to him: ‘Approach boldly, I shall
not fly away!’”
“Have you never seen, nor had made, any images or picture of yourself
and in your likeness?”
“I saw at Arras a painting[54] in the hands of a Scot: it was like me. I
was represented fully armed, presenting a letter to my King, one knee on
the ground. I have never seen, nor had made, any other image or painting
in my likeness.”
“In the house of your host at Orleans, was there not a picture in which
was painted three women, with these words: ‘Justice, Peace, Union’?”
“I know nothing about it.”
“Do you not know that the people of your party had services, masses, and
prayers offered for you?”
“I know nothing of it; if they had any service, it was not by my order;
but if they prayed for me, my opinion is they did not do ill.”
“Did those of your party firmly believe that you were sent from God?”
“I do not know if they believed it, and in this I refer to their own
feeling in this matter. But even though they do not believe, yet am I
sent from God.”
“Do you not think they have a good belief, if they believe this?”
“If they think that I am sent from God, they will not be deceived.”
“In what spirit did the people of your party kiss your hands and your
garments?”
“Many came to see me willingly, but they kissed my hands as little as I
could help. The poor folk came to me readily, because I never did them
any unkindness: on the contrary, I loved to help them.”
“What honour did the people of Troyes do you on your entry?”
“None at all. Brother Richard, so far as I remember, entered at the same
time as I and our people; I do not recall seeing him at the entry.”
“Did he not preach a sermon on your arrival in the town?”
“I did not stop there at all, and did not even sleep there: I know
nothing of his sermon.”
“Were you many days at Rheims?”
“We were there, I believe, five or six days.”
“Did you not act there as Godmother?” [“_lever d’enfant._”]
“At Troyes I did, to one child. At Rheims, I do not remember it, nor at
Château-Thierry. I was Godmother twice at Saint-Denis, in France.
Usually, I gave to the boys the name of Charles, in honour of my King;
and to the girls, Jeanne. At other times, I gave such names as pleased
the mothers.”
“Did not the good women of the town touch with their rings that which
you wore on your finger?”
“Many women touched my hands and my rings; but I know nothing of their
feelings nor their intention.”
“Who of your people, before Château-Thierry, caught butterflies in your
standard?”
[Illustration:
RHEIMS CATHEDRAL.
]
[Illustration:
CHURCH OF SAINT REMY.
]
“My people never did such a thing: it is your side who have invented
it.”
“What did you do at Rheims with the gloves with which your King was
consecrated?”
“There were favours of gloves for the knights and nobles at Rheims.
There was one who lost his gloves; I did not say he would find them
again. My standard has been in the Church of Rheims; and it seems to me
it was near the altar.[55] I myself bore it for a space there. I do not
know if Brother Richard held it.”
“When you were going through the country, did you often receive the
Sacraments of Penance and the Eucharist in the good towns?”
“Yes, from time to time.”
“Did you receive the said Sacraments in man’s dress?”
“Yes; but I do not remember ever to have received them armed.”
“Why did you take the horse of the Bishop of Senlis?”
“It was bought for 200 saluts.[56] If he received these 200 saluts, I do
not know. There was a place fixed at which they were to be paid. I wrote
to him that he might have his horse back if he wished; as for me, I did
not wish it, because it was worth nothing for weight-carrying.”
“How old was the child you visited at Lagny?”
“The child was three days old. It was brought before the image of Our
Lady. They told me that the young girls of the village were before this
image, and that I might wish to go also and pray God and Our Lady to
give life to this infant. I went and prayed with them. At last, life
returned to the child, who yawned three times, and was then baptized;
soon after, it died, and was buried in consecrated ground. It was three
days, they said, since life had departed from the child; it was as black
as my coat; when it yawned, the colour began to return to it. I was with
the other young girls, praying and kneeling before Our Lady.”
“Did they not say in the village that it was done through you, and at
your prayer?”
“I did not enquire about it.”
“Have you ever seen or known Catherine de La Rochelle?”
“Yes, at Jargeau and at Montfaucon in Berry.”
“Did not Catherine shew you a lady, robed in white, who, she said,
sometimes appeared to her?”
“No.”
“What did this Catherine say to you?”
“That a white lady came to her, dressed in cloth-of-gold, who told her
to go through the good cities with heralds and trumpets which the King
would give to her, and proclaim that any one who had gold, silver, or
any concealed treasure should bring it immediately: that those who did
not do so, and who had anything hidden, she would know, and would be
able to discover the treasure. With these treasures, she told me, she
would pay my men-at-arms. I told Catherine that she should return to her
husband, look after her home, and bring up her children. And in order to
have some certainty as to her mission, I spoke of it, either to Saint
Catherine or to Saint Margaret, who told me that the mission of this
Catherine was mere folly and nothing else. I wrote to the King as to
what he should do about it; and, when I afterwards went to him, I told
him that this mission of Catherine was only folly and nothing more.
Nevertheless, Brother Richard wished to set her to work; therefore were
they both displeased with me,—Brother Richard and she.”
“Did you never speak with the said Catherine on the project of going to
La Charité-sur-Loire?”
“She did not advise me to go there: it was too cold, and she would not
go. She told me she wished to visit the Duke of Burgundy in order to
make peace. I told her it seemed to me that peace would be found only at
the end of the lance. I asked her if this white lady who appeared to her
came to her every night? and I said that, to see her, I would sleep one
night with her in the same bed. I went to bed; I watched till midnight;
I saw nothing, and then went to sleep. When morning came, I asked her if
the White Lady had come. ‘Yes, Jeanne,’ she answered me, ‘while you were
asleep she came; and I could not awaken you.’ Then I asked her if she
would come again the following night. ‘Yes,’ she told me. For this
reason I slept by day that I might be able to watch the night following.
I went to bed with Catherine; watched all the night following: but saw
nothing, although I asked her often, ‘Will she never come?’ and she
always answered me, ‘Yes, in a moment.’”
“What did you do in the trenches of La Charité?”[57]
“I made an assault there; but I neither threw, nor caused to be thrown,
Holy Water by way of aspersion.”
“Why did you not enter La Charité, if you had command from God to do
so?”
“Who told you I had God’s command for it?”
“Did you not have counsel of your Voice?”
“I wished to go into France. The men-at-arms told me it was better to go
first to La Charité.”
“Were you a long time in the Tower at Beaurevoir?”
“About four months. When I knew that the English were come to take me, I
was very angry; nevertheless, my Voices forbade me many times to leap.
In the end, for fear of the English, I leaped, and commended myself to
God and Our Lady. I was wounded. When I had leaped, the Voice of Saint
Catherine said to me I was to be of good cheer,[58] for those at
Compiègne would have succour. I prayed always for those at Compiègne,
with my Counsel.”
“What did you say when you had leaped?”
“Some said I was dead. As soon as the Burgundians saw I was alive, they
reproached me with having leapt.”
“Did you not say then, that you would rather die than be in the hands of
the English?”
“I said I would rather give up my soul to God than be in the hands of
the English.”
“Were you not then very angry, to the extent of blaspheming the Name of
God?”
“Never have I cursed any of the Saints; and it is not my habit to
swear.”
“On the subject of Soissons[59] and the Captain who surrendered the
town, did you not blaspheme God, and say, if you got hold of this
Captain you would have him cut in quarters?”
“I have never blasphemed any of the Saints; those who say so have
misunderstood.”
This done, Jeanne was conducted back to the place which had been
assigned as her prison.
NINE PRIVATE EXAMINATIONS.
_The Bishop decrees that the Enquiries, if any are thought necessary,
shall henceforth be made in private._
Afterwards, We, the Bishop, did say that, in pursuing this Process and
without in any way discontinuing it, We would call before Us some
Doctors and Masters, experts in law, religious and civil, in order, by
them, to gather up and collect what shall seem to them of a nature to be
gathered up and collected, in Jeanne’s Declarations, as these have
already been established by her own answers set down in writing. Their
labour ended, if there should remain any points, on the which it would
seem Jeanne should submit to more full enquiry, We will make, for this
supplementary examination, choice of certain Doctors; and in this manner
We shall not fatigue all and each of the Masters, who, at this moment,
assist Us in such great numbers. These new enquiries shall also be put
into writing, in order that the above-named Doctors and other approved
men of science may deliberate and furnish their opinion and advice at
the right moment. In the meantime, We invite all the Assessors to study
at home the Process, and what they have already gathered from it; to
search out the consequences of which the affair is susceptible; and to
submit the result of their deliberations either to Us, or to the Doctors
who shall be appointed by Us—if they do not prefer rather to reserve
themselves for the time and place when they shall have deliberated in
full maturity; and to give their opinion on full knowledge of the
Process.
In the meantime, We expressly forbid all and each to leave Rouen without
Our permission before the full completion of the Process.
_Meeting at the Bishop’s House of several Doctors._
Sunday, March 4th, and the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and
Friday, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th of the same month, We, the Bishop,
assembled in Our dwelling, many grave Doctors-and Masters-in-law, sacred
and civil, who were charged by Us to collect all that has been confessed
or answered by Jeanne in these Enquiries, and to extract therefrom the
points on which she answered in an incomplete manner, and which seem to
these Doctors susceptible of further examination. This double work
having been effected by them, We, the said Bishop, by the advice of the
said Doctors, decide that there is occasion to proceed to further
enquiries. But because Our numerous occupations do not permit Us to
attend ourselves,[60] we appoint, to proceed therein, the venerable and
discreet person, Jean Delafontaine, Master of Arts and Licentiate in
Canon Law, who will interrogate the said Jeanne in Our name. We have for
this appointed the 9th March, in presence of the Doctors and Masters,
Jean Beaupère, Jacques de Touraine, Nicolas Midi, Pierre Maurice, Thomas
de Courcelles, Nicolas Loyseleur, and Guillaume Manchon.
Saturday, March 10th, We, the Bishop, repaired to the part of the Castle
of Rouen given to Jeanne as a prison, where, being assisted by Maître
Jean Delafontaine, the Commissary appointed by Us, and by the venerable
Doctors and Masters in Theology, Nicolas Midi, and Gerard Feuillet
(witnesses, Jean Fécard, Advocate; and Maître Jean Massieu, Priest), We
summoned Jeanne to make and take oath to speak the truth on what should
be asked of her. She replied:
“I promise to speak truth on what touches your Case; but the more you
constrain me to swear, the later will I tell you.”
Afterwards, the examination of Jeanne by Maître Jean Delafontaine took
place as follows:
“On the faith of the oath you have just taken, from whence had you
started when you went the last time to Compiègne?”
“From Crespy, in Valois.”
“When you were at Compiègne, were you several days before you made your
sally or attack?”
“I arrived there secretly early in the morning,[61] and entered the town
without the enemy knowing anything of it; and that same day, in the
evening, I made the sally in which I was taken.”
“When you made your sally, did they ring the bells?”
“If they did ring them it was not by my order or knowledge; I do not
think it was so, and I do not remember to have said they rang.”
“Did you make this sally by command of your Voice?”
“During the Easter week of last year, being in the trenches of Melun, it
was told me by my Voices—that is to say, by Saint Catherine and Saint
Margaret—‘Thou wilt be taken before Saint John’s Day; and so it must be:
do not torment thyself about it: be resigned; God will help thee.’”
“Before this occasion at Melun, had not your Voices ever told you that
you would be taken?”
“Yes, many times and nearly every day. And I asked of my Voices that,
when I should be taken, I might die soon, without long suffering in
prison; and they said to me: ‘Be resigned to all—thus it must be.’ But
they did not tell me the time; and if I had known it, I should not have
gone. Often I asked to know the hour: they never told me.”
“Did your Voices command you to make this sally from Compiègne, and
signify that you would be taken if you went?”
“If I had known the hour when I should be taken, I should never have
gone of mine own free-will; I should always have obeyed their commands
in the end, whatever might happen to me.”
“When you made this sally from Compiègne had you any Voice or revelation
about making it?”
“That day I did not know at all that I should be taken, and I had no
other command to go forth; but they had always told me it was necessary
for me to be taken prisoner.”
“When you made this sally, did you pass by the Bridge of Compiègne?”
“I passed by the bridge and the boulevard, and went with the company of
followers of my side against the followers of my Lord of Luxembourg. I
drove them back twice against the camp of the Burgundians, and the third
time, to the middle of the highway. The English who were there then cut
off the road from me and my people, between us and the boulevard. For
this reason, my followers retreated, and, in retreating towards the
fields, on the Picardy side, near the boulevard, I was taken. Between
Compiègne and the place where I was taken there is nothing but the
stream and the boulevard with its ditch.”
“Did you not have on the banner you carried a representation of the
world, painted with two angels, etc.?”
“Yes; and I had no other.”
“What did this signify, to paint God holding the world, and these
angels?”
[Illustration:
THE BATTLE OF HERRINGS.
From a French Manuscript of the XVth Century.
]
[Illustration:
THE MAID TAKEN PRISONER.
]
“Saint Catherine and Saint Margaret told me that I was to take my banner
and to carry it boldly, and to have painted on it the King of Heaven. I
told my King, much against my will: that is all I can tell of the
signification of this painting.”
“Have you not a shield and arms?”
“I never had one; but my King has granted arms to my brothers,—that is
to say, a shield azure, two fleurs-de-lys of gold, and a sword betwixt.
These arms I described in this town to a painter, because he asked what
arms I bore. The King gave them to my brothers, [to please[62] them,]
without request from me and without revelation.”
“Had you, when you were taken, a horse, charger, or hackney?”
“I was on horseback; the one which I was riding when I was taken was a
demi-charger.”
“Who had given you this horse?”
“My King, or his people, from the King’s money. I had five chargers from
the King’s money, without counting my hacks, of which I had more than
seven.”
“Had you any other riches from your King besides these horses?”
“I asked nothing from my King, except good arms, good horses, and money
to pay my household.”
“Had you no treasure?”
“The ten or twelve thousand I was worth is not much treasure to carry on
war, very little indeed; and such goods are my brothers’, in my opinion;
what I have is my King’s own money.”
“What was the sign[63] that came to your King when you went to him?”
“It was beautiful, honourable, and most credible; the best and richest
in the world.”
“Then why will you not tell it and shew it, since you wished to have the
sign[64] of Catherine de la Rochelle?”
“I might not have asked to know the sign of the said Catherine, had that
sign been as well shewn before notable people of the Church and others,
Archbishops and Bishops, as mine was before the Archbishop of Rheims and
other Bishops whose names I know not. There were there also Charles de
Bourbon, the Sire de la Tremouille, the Duke d’Alençon,[65] and many
other knights, who saw and heard it as well as I see those who speak to
me to-day; and, besides, I knew already, through Saint Catherine and
Saint Margaret, that the doings of this Catherine were as nothing.”
“Does this sign still last?”
“It is well to know it; it will last a thousand years and more. My sign
is with the King’s treasure.”
“Is it gold, silver, precious stones, or a crown?”
“I will tell you nothing more about it. No man in the world could devise
so rich a thing as this sign; but the sign that you need is that God may
deliver me from your hands; that is the most sure sign He could send
you. When I was about to start to see my King, my Voices told me: ‘Go
boldly; when thou art before the King, he shall have a sure sign to
receive thee and believe in thee.’”
“When the sign came to your King, what reverence did you make to it? Did
it come from God?”
“I thanked Our Lord for having delivered me from the trouble that I had
with the clergy of my party, who were arguing against me; and I knelt
down several times. An Angel from God, and from none other, sent the
sign to my King; and for this I have many times thanked Our Lord. The
priests of that party ceased to attack me when they had recognized the
sign.”
“The Clergy of that party then saw the sign?”
“When my King and those who were with him had seen the sign and also the
Angel[66] that brought it, I asked my King if he were satisfied. He
answered, Yes. Then I left, and went to a little chapel close by. I have
since heard that, after I left, more than three hundred persons saw the
said sign. For love of me and that I should not be questioned about it,
God permitted certain men of my party to see the sign in reality.”
“Your King and you, did you do reverence to the Angel who brought the
sign?”
“Yes; I made a salutation, knelt down, and took off my cap.”
_Monday, March 12th, in the morning; in Jeanne’s prison.—Present: The
Bishop, assisted by Jean Delafontaine, Commissary; Nicholas Midi and
Gerard Feuillet; and as their witnesses: Thomas Fiefvet, Pasquier de
Vaux, and Nicolas de Houbent._
In presence of all the above-named, We required the said Jeanne to swear
to speak truth on what should be asked her.
She replied: “_On what touches your Case_, as I have said already, I
will willingly speak truth.” And thus did she make oath.
Then, by Our order, she was questioned by Maître Jean Delafontaine:
“Did not the Angel who bore the sign to your King speak to him?”
“Yes, he spoke to him; and he told my King it was necessary that I
should be set to work, so that the country might be soon relieved.”
“Was the Angel who bore the sign to your King the same Angel who had
before appeared to you?”
“It is all one; and he has never failed me.”
“Has not the Angel, then, failed you with regard to the good things of
this life, in that you have been taken prisoner?”
“I think, as it has pleased Our Lord, that it is for my well-being that
I was taken prisoner.”
“Has your Angel never failed you in the good things of grace?”
“How can he fail me, when he comforts me every day? My comfort comes
from Saint Catherine and Saint Margaret.”
“Do you call them, or do they come without being called?”
“They often come without being called; and other times, if they do not
come soon, I pray Our Lord to send them.”
“Have you sometimes called them without their coming?”
“I have never had need of them without having them.”
“Has Saint Denis appeared to you sometimes?”
“Not that I know.”
“When you promised Our Saviour to preserve your virginity, was it to Him
that you spoke?”
“It would quite suffice that I give my promise to those who were sent by
Him—that is to say, to Saint Catherine and Saint Margaret.”
“Who induced you to have cited a man of the town of Toul on the question
of marriage?”
“I did not have him cited; it was he, on the contrary, who had me cited;
and then I swore before the Judge to speak the truth. And besides, I had
promised nothing to this man. From the first time I heard my Voices, I
dedicated my virginity for so long as it should please God; and I was
then about thirteen years of age. My Voices told me I should win my case
in this town of Toul.”
“As to your visions, did you speak of them to your Curé or to any other
Churchman?”
“No; only to Robert de Baudricourt and to my King. It was not my Voices
who compelled me to keep them secret; but I feared to reveal them, in
dread that the Burgundians might put some hindrance in the way of my
journey; and, in particular, I was afraid that my father would hinder
it.”
“Do you think that you did right to go without leave from your father or
mother, when you should ‘honour your father and mother’?”
“In all things I obeyed them well, except in that of the journey: but
afterwards I wrote to them, and they forgave me.”
“When you left your father and mother, do you think you sinned?”
“If God commanded, it was right to obey. If God commanded it, had I had
a hundred fathers and mothers, and had I been a king’s daughter, I
should have gone.”
“Did you ask your Voices if you should announce your departure to your
father and mother?”
“As to my father and mother, my Voices would have been quite willing I
should tell them, had it not been for the trouble I should have caused
them in speaking of this. As for myself, I would not have told them at
any price. My Voices agreed that I might either speak to my father and
mother or be silent.”
“Did you do reverence to Saint Michael and the Angels when you saw
them?”
“Yes; and, after they were gone I kissed the earth where they had been.”
“Were they long with you?”
“Very often they came among the faithful [_i.e._, in church] without
being seen; and often I saw them among the faithful.”
“Had you had any letters from Saint Michael or from your Voices?”
“I have not permission to tell you. Eight days from this, I will tell
you willingly what I know.”
“Did not your Voices call you ‘Daughter of God, daughter of the Church,
great-hearted daughter’?”
“Before the raising of the Siege of Orleans and every day since, when
they speak to me, they call me often, ‘Jeanne the Maid, Daughter of
God.’”
“Since you call yourself a daughter of God, why do you not willingly say
‘Our Father’?”
“I do say it willingly. Last time, when I refused, it was because I
meant that my Lord of Beauvais should hear me in confession.”
_The same day, Monday, in the afternoon, in the same place.—Present:
Jean Delafontaine, Commissary; Nicolas Midi; Gerard Feuillet; Thomas
Fiefvet; Pasquier de Vaux; and Nicolas de Houbent._
The said Jeanne was interrogated as follows by Our order by the said
Jean Delafontaine:
“Did not your father have dreams about you before your departure?”
“When I was still with my father and mother, my mother told me many
times that my father had spoken of having dreamed that I, Jeannette, his
daughter, went away with the men-at-arms. My father and mother took
great care to keep me safe, and held me much in subjection. I obeyed
them in everything, except in the case at Toul—the action for marriage.
I have heard my mother say that my father told my brothers: ‘Truly, if I
thought this thing would happen that I have dreamed about my daughter, I
would wish you to drown her; and, if you would not do it, I would drown
her myself!’ He nearly lost his senses when I went to Vaucouleurs.”
“Did these thoughts and dreams come to your father after you had your
visions?”
“Yes, more than two years after I had had my first Voice.”
“Was it at the request of Robert de Baudricourt or of yourself that you
took man’s dress?”
“It was of myself, and at the request of no living man.”
“Did your Voices command you to take man’s dress?”
“All that I have done of good, I have done by the command of my Voices.
As to the dress, I will answer about it another time: at present I am
not advised, but to-morrow I will answer.”
“In taking man’s dress, did you think you were doing wrong?”
“No; even now if I were with those of my own side and in this man’s
dress, it seems to me it would be a great good for France to do as I did
before I was taken.”
“How would you have delivered the Duke d’Orléans?”
“I should have taken enough English prisoners in France to have
exchanged him back; if I had not taken enough in France, I should have
crossed the sea to seek him in England, by force.”
“Did Saint Catherine and Saint Margaret tell you absolutely and without
condition that you would take enough English to get the Duke d’Orléans,
who is in England, or that otherwise you would cross the sea to seek
him?”[67]
“Yes, and I said so to my King: and he allowed me to treat with the
English lords who were then prisoners.[68] If I had continued three
years without hindrance, I should have delivered him. To do this, it
needed less time than three years and more than one. But I do not
remember about it.”
“What was the sign you gave to the King?”