_Polonius. My lord, I will use them according to
their desert.
Hamlet. God's bodikins, man, much better: use
every man after his desert, and who should 'scape
whipping? Use them after your own honor and
dignity: the less they deserve, the more merit is
in your bounty._
_Question_. Have you read the sermon of
Mr. Talmage, in which he exposes your mis-
representations?
_Answer_. I have read such reports as appeared in
some of the New York papers.
_Question_. What do you think of what he has
to say?
_Answer_. Some time ago I gave it as my opinion
of Mr. Talmage that, while he was a man of most
excellent judgment, he was somewhat deficient in
imagination. I find that he has the disease that seems
16
to afflict most theologians, and that is, a kind of intel-
lectual toadyism, that uses the names of supposed great
men instead of arguments. It is perfectly astonishing
to the average preacher that any one should have the
temerity to differ, on the subject of theology, with
Andrew Jackson, Daniel Webster, and other gentlemen
eminent for piety during their lives, but who,
as a rule, expressed their theological opinions a few
minutes before dissolution. These ministers are per-
fectly delighted to have some great politician, some
judge, soldier, or president, certify to the truth of the
Bible and to the moral character of Jesus Christ.
Mr. Talmage insists that if a witness is false in one
particular, his entire testimony must be thrown away.
Daniel Webster was in favor of the Fugitive Slave
Law, and thought it the duty of the North to capture
the poor slave-mother. He was willing to stand
between a human being and his freedom. He was
willing to assist in compelling persons to work without
any pay except such marks of the lash as they might
receive. Yet this man is brought forward as a witness
for the truth of the gospel. If he was false in his
testimony as to liberty, what is his affidavit worth as
to the value of Christianity? Andrew Jackson was a
brave man, a good general, a patriot second to none,
17
an excellent judge of horses, and a brave duelist. I
admit that in his old age he relied considerably upon
the atonement. I think Jackson was really a very great
man, and probably no President impressed himself
more deeply upon the American people than the hero
of New Orleans, but as a theologian he was, in my
judgment, a most decided failure, and his opinion as
to the authenticity of the Scriptures is of no earthly
value. It was a subject upon which he knew probably
as little as Mr. Talmage does about modern infidelity.
Thousands of people will quote Jackson in favor of
religion, about which he knew nothing, and yet have
no confidence in his political opinions, although he
devoted the best part of his life to politics.
No man should quote the words of another, in place
of an argument, unless he is willing to accept all the
opinions of that man. Lord Bacon denied the Copernican
system of astronomy, and, according to Mr.
Talmage, having made that mistake, his opinions upon
other subjects are equally worthless. Mr. Wesley
believed in ghosts, witches, and personal devils, yet
upon many subjects I have no doubt his opinions were
correct. The truth is, that nearly everybody is right
about some things and wrong about most things; and
if a man's testimony is not to be taken until he is
18
right on every subject, witnesses will be extremely
scarce.
Personally, I care nothing about names. It makes
no difference to me what the supposed great men of
the past have said, except as what they have said
contains an argument; and that argument is worth to
me the force it naturally has upon my mind. Chris-
tians forget that in the realm of reason there are no
serfs and no monarchs. When you submit to an
argument, you do not submit to the man who made it.
Christianity demands a certain obedience, a certain
blind, unreasoning faith, and parades before the eyes
of the ignorant, with great pomp and pride, the names
of kings, soldiers, and statesmen who have admitted
the truth of the Bible. Mr. Talmage introduces as a
witness the Rev. Theodore Parker. This same The-
odore Parker denounced the Presbyterian creed as
the most infamous of all creeds, and said that the worst
heathen god, wearing a necklace of live snakes, was a
representation of mercy when compared with the God
of John Calvin. Now, if this witness is false in any
particular, of course he cannot be believed, according
to Mr. Talmage, upon any subject, and yet Mr.
Talmage introduces him upon the stand as a good
witness.
19
Although I care but little for names, still I will sug-
gest that, in all probability, Humboldt knew more upon
this subject than all the pastors in the world. I cer-
tainly would have as much confidence in the opinion
of Goethe as in that of William H. Seward; and as
between Seward and Lincoln, I should take Lincoln;
and when you come to Presidents, for my part, if I
were compelled to pin my faith on the sleeve of any-
body, I should take Jefferson's coat in preference to
Jackson's. I believe that Haeckel is, to say the least,
the equal of any theologian we have in this country,
and the late John W. Draper certainly knew as much
upon these great questions as the average parson. I
believe that Darwin has investigated some of these
things, that Tyndall and Huxley have turned their
minds somewhat in the same direction, that Helmholtz
has a few opinions, and that, in fact, thousands of able,
intelligent and honest men differ almost entirely with
Webster and Jackson.
So far as I am concerned, I think more of reasons
than of reputations, more of principles than of persons,
more of nature than of names, more of facts, than of
faiths.
It is the same with books as with persons. Proba-
bly there is not a book in the world entirely destitute
20
of truth, and not one entirely exempt from error.
The Bible is like other books. There are mistakes in
it, side by side with truths,--passages inculcating
murder, and others exalting mercy; laws devilish and
tyrannical, and others filled with wisdom and justice.
It is foolish to say that if you accept a part, you must
accept the whole. You must accept that which com-
mends itself to your heart and brain. There never was
a doctrine that a witness, or a book, should be thrown
entirely away, because false in one particular. If in
any particular the book, or the man, tells the truth, to
that extent the truth should be accepted.
Truth is made no worse by the one who tells it,
and a lie gets no real benefit from the reputation of its
author.
_Question_. What do you think of the statement
that a general belief in your teachings would fill all
the penitentiaries, and that in twenty years there
would be a hell in this world worse than the one
expected in the other?
_Answer_. My creed is this: