The testimony of Harry D. Holmes was taken at 2 p.m., on July 23, 1964,
in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan
and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant
counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you rise and raise your right hand? Do you solemnly
swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. HOLMES. I do.
Mr. LIEBELER. I understand that you have previously been examined by
one of the attorneys on the staff, and I assume they advised you of the
basis on which we are conducting the examination and the rights that
you have in the situation, so I won't bother to go through that again.
Mr. HOLMES. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you state your full name for the record?
Mr. HOLMES. Harry D. Holmes.
Mr. LIEBELER. You are the chief postal inspector?
Mr. HOLMES. No; it is just postal inspector.
Mr. LIEBELER. Stationed with the post office here in Dallas; is that
correct?
Mr. HOLMES. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. I just have a few questions that I wanted to ask you
that have come up since we took your testimony the last time. One of
the things I would like to know about, if you have any information on
it, is how long it ordinarily takes a parcel post shipment to come to
Dallas from Chicago.
Mr. HOLMES. It would depend on the time of day it was mailed, and
whether it was mailed just prior to the next most expeditious dispatch.
But I would say certainly not over, well, it would be in Dallas the
next day. But whether it would get to a box--that's right, it would be
available at his box--should be the next day.
Mr. LIEBELER. Of course, this question relates specifically to the
shipment of the rifle.
Mr. HOLMES. That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Shipped from Chicago and addressed to Mr. Hidell at Post
Office Box 2915 here in Dallas, and you say that it generally would
have been available at the post office here in Dallas the day following
its delivery to the post office in Chicago?
Mr. HOLMES. I have no idea when it was mailed there, but it should
have been available here the next day. If it were to be delivered to a
street address, it would be the second day, because it would not make
morning delivery. But to a post office box, he should have. Of course,
he had told me he didn't come to that box too regularly, so there is no
assurance of when it was picked up.
Mr. LIEBELER. But as far as the possibility is concerned, it would have
been available here at the post office box the following morning from
Chicago?
Mr. HOLMES. That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER. After it has been received here in Dallas, as I
understand the procedure, a notice would be put in the post office box
indicating that a package was being held there in the post office; is
that correct?
Mr. HOLMES. There is a regular card, when the package is too large to
go in the box, or if it is c.o.d., or insured, or registered. However,
this was an ordinary parcel. It was not insured or c.o.d. There would
be a card for him put in the box, and he would have to pick it up at a
window.
Mr. LIEBELER. What about as far as Los Angeles is concerned, from Los
Angeles to Dallas? How long would it take a parcel post to reach Dallas
from Los Angeles?
Mr. HOLMES. At least 2 days.
Mr. LIEBELER. Could it possibly be longer than 2 days?
Mr. HOLMES. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. How much longer, do you think? How about on the average,
do you have any idea?
Mr. HOLMES. No; it depends on the time of mailing. It is 2 days'
train run from Los Angeles here, and if it happens to catch an early
dispatch, it would be in here the morning of the third day.
Mr. LIEBELER. From Chicago it is only a 1-day train run, is that
correct?
Mr. HOLMES. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. So it would be here, if it had an early dispatch, on the
morning of the following day?
Mr. HOLMES. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. My understanding is that an application for a post office
box comes in three separate parts. Do you have----
(Mr. Holmes hands paper to attorney.)
Mr. LIEBELER. You have, in fact, handed me a sample of such an
application.
Mr. HOLMES. I thought you might want one, so I brought one along.
Mr. LIEBELER. That was very good, and we will mark this as Holmes
Exhibit No. 1-A on your deposition of July 23, 1964. I have put my
initials on the corner after I have marked it. Would you initial it,
too, for the purpose of identification?
(Mr. Holmes initials.)
Mr. LIEBELER. What is the ordinary procedure that is followed when a
box is rented and this form is used?
Mr. HOLMES. The form is completed, usually by the applicant, and it
must be signed by the applicant, even if an employee does complete it.
This portion of the--I don't know how you want to designate it.
Mr. LIEBELER. We will number them portions 1, 2, and 3.
Mr. HOLMES. All right, part 1 of this application is simply the
instructions on a combination box, and instructions to the patron
is torn off, and he keeps it or they throw it away. Portions 2 and
3 are completed, too. 2 gives the applicant's name, the name of his
corporation or firm he represents, if applicable, the kind of business,
the business address, the home address, and the place for his signature
and the date. On the third portion is a box for him to indicate whether
he wants all mail in the box, or just whether he wants some other
disposition and so on, and a place for name of person entitled to
receive mail through the box other than the applicant himself, and he
fills in that. These two portions then remain together in the file of
the post office where he made application.
Mr. LIEBELER. That is portions 2 and 3?
Mr. HOLMES. Until he relinquishes the box. They pull this out and
endorse it so the box has been closed, and the date and they tear off 3
and throw it away. It has no more purpose. That is what happened on box
2915.
Mr. LIEBELER. They have thrown part 3 away?
Mr. HOLMES. Yes; as it so happens, even though they closed the box
in New Orleans, they still had part 3 and it showed that the mail
for Marina Oswald and A. J. Hidell was good in the box. They hadn't
complied with regulations. They still had it there.
Mr. LIEBELER. It was a lucky thing.
Mr. HOLMES. We wish they had here.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now is this regulation that says section 3 should be torn
off and thrown away, is that a general regulation of the Post Office
Department?
Mr. HOLMES. It is in the Post Office Manual Instructions to employees;
yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. So there is no way, as I understand it, to tell from
the records maintained, as far as you know anyway, who was authorized
to receive mail at Post Office Box 2915 that Oswald had while he was
here in Dallas before he went to New Orleans in April of 1963; is that
correct?
Mr. HOLMES. Other than Oswald himself and his name on the application.
Mr. LIEBELER. Right.
Mr. HOLMES. Now he did tell me in personal interrogation that no one
was permitted to get mail in that box but him.
Mr. LIEBELER. He said that same thing about the box in New Orleans,
too, didn't he?