Mr. WILLIS. Across from the county jail on the parkway there near the
esplanade.
Mr. LIEBELER. So you saw the motorcade coming down Main Street, did you?
Mr. WILLIS. Yes; we could see it for a block or two.
Mr. LIEBELER. Then the motorcade turned onto Houston and you took some
pictures at that time?
Mr. WILLIS. I remained there until I got the shot of the President
approaching the turn onto Houston Street, and being a personal friend
of then Vice President Lyndon Johnson, we were anxious to get him in
one, and did. Then I took a picture as they turned onto Houston Street.
Then another one from the rear after they proceeded down Houston
approaching the turn they were to make onto Elm. Then I immediately ran
across the plaza, raced over to Elm Street and stationed myself on the
curb in front of the Texas School Book Depository.
Mr. LIEBELER. You were there when the motorcade made a left turn on
Houston and went down Elm Street; is that correct?
Mr. WILLIS. Yes; and I photographed the President. I was standing in
front of the curb, as is shown in Life magazine, on the edge of the
street, and I photographed the presidential car at not more than 10
feet because I didn't get the front or the rear of the car. I just got
the occupants in the center. I was that close.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now you have indicated that you are depicted in a picture
which is in the John F. Kennedy Memorial Edition of Life magazine in a
picture that you said you were in the upper left-hand corner of page 4;
is that correct?
Mr. WILLIS. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. You are the individual who stands almost directly behind
the first motorcycle policeman in that picture, and you are shown with
a camera?
Mr. WILLIS. With my camera raised; yes, sir. The little girl in the red
dress and white scarf and coat is my daughter.
Mr. LIEBELER. The farthest person in the right in the back of that
picture?
Mr. WILLIS. The farthest person in that picture.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now did you stand at that particular spot the entire
time, or did you move down Elm Street?
Mr. WILLIS. No, sir; I took that picture just seconds before the first
shot was fired, to get back close up. Then I started down the street,
and the regular weekly edition of Life magazine came out and shows me
in about three different pictures going down the street. Then my next
shot was taken at the very--in fact, the shot caused me to squeeze the
camera shutter, and I got a picture of the President as he was hit with
the first shot. So instantaneous, in fact, that the crowd hadn't had
time to react.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now you have, as I understand it, a series of 12 slides,
which apparently have been prepared by something called Phil Willis
Enterprises, and which I understand is being marketed, at least in the
Dallas area?
Mr. WILLIS. We haven't done anything with them as yet, but I am the
only one, I am told, who has a complete set of the prints covering the
last 25 seconds of the President's life and the assassination and the
tragedy following.
I was so shocked I didn't sell any, like everyone did at the moment.
And the same people who bought those said they would have been
invaluable had I brought them to them, but it didn't dawn on me to
do that. And later there has been so many requests because of the
historical nature, that we felt compelled to make them available to the
public.
Mr. LIEBELER. I have here a picture that has been marked Hudson Exhibit
No. 1, which I now show you and I suggest to you that it is one of the
pictures that is a picture made from one of the slides.
Mr. WILLIS. I made that picture.
Mr. LIEBELER. You made that picture yourself?
Mr. WILLIS. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. That is the same as slide No. 5? In your series of slides?
Mr. WILLIS. That is correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you tell us when that picture was made?
Mr. WILLIS. That picture was made at the very instant that the first
shot was fired. As a matter of fact, the fellow standing on the ledge
under the right-hand corner of the Stemmons Highway sign is a gentleman
who took the last pictures that appeared in Life, and his pictures
showed that this instant with this sign in between the photographer and
the President, shows that at this instant he had already grabbed his
throat.
This was pointed out to the Secret Service and the Federal Bureau of
Investigation. Picture No. 2 will verify that, in Life magazine. You
see the highway sign that he has the rear of, is the one I have the
front of. And as he approached this same sign in this film, he has
already grabbed his throat. That is verified by that fact.
Mr. LIEBELER. Referring to the pictures on page 4 of the memorial
edition of Life magazine. Picture No. 1 shows you standing, as we have
already indicated, standing back with your camera?
Mr. WILLIS. Picture 2 shows the President just as the car comes from
behind this sign, and it shows that he has already reached for his
throat at that time.
Mr. LIEBELER. The sign in question is one that reads "Stemmons Freeway
Keep Right", and the front of that sign appears in the picture that you
took which is marked Hudson Exhibit No. 1?
Mr. WILLIS. The only one in that vicinity. It has to be the same one.
You will also note in my first picture, he is facing the outside of the
street and smiling and waving, and he had already turned his head the
other way when I have the picture in question here from the rear.
That same picture from the other side of the street in Life shows he
has grabbed his throat when they proceeded to that point of the sign in
question.
Mr. LIEBELER. Go through that again. I didn't understand it. Let me
remind you of this. When you mention a picture, let's try and refer
to them by numbers, because if you do that, I won't have to repeat
it again, because we have to get the numbers down on the record.
You were making a point just a minute ago about something that I
didn't understand. You were referring to some of the pictures in Life
magazine, and also to Hudson Exhibit No. 1, which is the picture you
took.
Mr. WILLIS. All right, sir, Hudson Exhibit No. 1, which is a copy of
the picture I took, shows the President's car had proceeded almost past
the "Stemmons Freeway Keep Right" sign. Referring back to panel No. 2
of the Life Memorial Edition of Life magazine on page 4, it shows that
Mrs. Kennedy has her hand over her mouth, and the President has already
grabbed his throat. That picture shows that his car has not passed the
Stemmons sign completely.
Mr. LIEBELER. Yes.
Mr. WILLIS. Referring back to Hudson Exhibit No. 1, which I took, the
President's car in fact has passed the Stemmons sign, and he has turned
the opposite direction from the previous picture that I took close up,
and it proves without question that at this instant the President had
been hit.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, you mentioned the picture that you took, the other
picture that you took close up. Is that included in your set of slides
here?
Mr. WILLIS. Yes, sir; it is slide No. 4, which you see doesn't include
the front or the rear of the President's car, but the center. That is
proving how close it was.
Mr. LIEBELER. Picture No. 4 in your group of slides was taken shortly
before picture No. 5 was taken, is that right?
Mr. WILLIS. Yes, sir; not more than 3 seconds.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know which picture you were taking or you took at
the time that is shown here in panel No. 1 of this memorial edition of
Life magazine?
Mr. WILLIS. Yes, sir; the number just mentioned, slide No. 4, the
closeup of the President directly in front of the Texas School Book
Depository.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now from the time that you took No. 4, and when you took
No. 4, you were standing as shown in picture No. 1 in Life magazine?
Mr. WILLIS. Correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. What did you do before you took No. 5, which we have
marked here as Hudson Exhibit No. 1? Did you move down the street, or
were you standing in the same place, or do you remember?
Mr. WILLIS. No, sir; as human nature would guide in an instance of this
importance, I moved down the street slightly to try to get another
view, and, of course, I had the camera looking through the viewfinder
to try to get another picture of him before he went out of range. I
moved as far as I could within that 3 seconds.
Mr. LIEBELER. So you are not able to tell us exactly where you were
when you took the picture that we have here as Hudson Exhibit No. 1,
but it was a little bit farther on down Elm Street, still on the grassy
area described by Elm and Main Street; is that correct?
Mr. WILLIS. Yes, sir; I can verify that where I was going back to Life
magazine again, because this picture No. 2 on page 4 of the John F.
Kennedy Memorial Edition of Life, there is a tree in the background.
The only tree in that immediate vicinity on that side of the street.
And the shadow of that tree is shown in slide No. 5 that I took, which
would show my position.
Mr. LIEBELER. Yes. I see you would have to study just from where the
sun was coming, but it could be determined where you were standing, and
we could also apparently determine it by lining it up with across the
street?
Mr. WILLIS. Off the record. Let me say this. You see in No. 1 shot
where I am shown, you can see this shadow on the ground from this tree.
This little bush--there is the shadow from the tree. This tree is on
the ground, so if you look in my picture here, you can see the shadow
in that picture. So you see that I did move down approximately this far.
Mr. LIEBELER. All right. Now, you are certain that the first shot was
fired at approximately the time or shortly at approximately the time
you took the picture that has been marked Hudson Exhibit No. 1; is that
right?
Mr. WILLIS. I am positive.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember hearing the shot?
Mr. WILLIS. Absolutely. I, having been in World War II, and being
a deer hunter hobbyist, I would recognize a high-powered rifle
immediately.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you recognize this as a high-powered rifle?
Mr. WILLIS. Absolutely.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you heard it just about the time you took the picture
that has been marked?
Mr. WILLIS. That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Prior to the time you took the picture, which is marked
Hudson Exhibit No. 1?
Mr. WILLIS. Absolutely.
Mr. LIEBELER. How many shots were fired altogether, Mr. Willis?
Mr. WILLIS. Three shots.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any question about that at all?
Mr. WILLIS. No, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you follow the car down Elm Street after you took the
picture, which we have marked Hudson Exhibit No. 1?
Mr. WILLIS. I proceeded down the street and didn't take any other
pictures instantly, because the three shots were fired approximately
about 2 seconds apart, and I knew my little daughters were running
along beside the Presidential car, and I was immediately concerned
about them, and I was screaming for them to come back, and they didn't
hear me. But I was concerned about them immediately, because I knew
something tragic had happened, and the shots didn't ring out long like
a rifle shot that is fired into midair in a distance. I knew it hit
something, and it couldn't have been a firecracker or anything like
that, so it impressed me, I remember, and after I found my daughters, I
saw they were heading back toward their mother.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where was she?
Mr. WILLIS. She was back in the crowd looking through this concrete
structure. How do you refer to that?
Mr. LIEBELER. Well, your wife was back closer toward the intersection
of Main Street and Houston Street?
Mr. WILLIS. No; it is a very short distance when you stand in here. No;
that is the one across the street--no; here she was. She was in between
Main, and Elm Streets, but real near Elm Street. In fact, she was only
a few feet back from my daughters. She wasn't more than 40 feet from
where the President was hit.
Mr. LIEBELER. So she was toward the triple underpass from the concrete
structure on Dealey Plaza?
Mr. WILLIS. She was inside the concrete structure looking through an
opening.
Mr. LIEBELER. Looking toward the triple underpass?
Mr. WILLIS. Toward the Texas School Book Depository where she had
a clear view, and there were surprisingly few people there at that
time--at that moment--and none in between her and the street to block
her vision.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you actually observe the President when he was hit in
the head?
Mr. WILLIS. No, sir; I did not. I couldn't see that well, and I was
more concerned about the shots coming from that building. The minute
the third shot was fired, I screamed, hoping the policeman would hear
me, to ring that building because it had to come from there. Being
directly across the street from the building, made it much more clear
to those standing there than the people who were on the side of the
street where the building was.
Mr. LIEBELER. So you thought you had picked out a particular building
at the time when you heard the shots?
Mr. WILLIS. Absolutely.
Mr. LIEBELER. What building was that?
Mr. WILLIS. The Texas School Book Depository Building.
Mr. LIEBELER. You were pretty sure?
Mr. WILLIS. I felt certain. I even looked for smoke, and I knew it came
from high up.
Mr. LIEBELER. How did you know that?
Mr. WILLIS. I even observed the clock on top of the building, it was
12:33 when I looked up there.
Mr. LIEBELER. The clock on top of the School Book Depository?
Mr. WILLIS. There is a Hertz sign on top of the building, and it
alternates the time of day and the temperature, and when I looked up,
it was 12:33, and the temperature was 68 degrees, as shown in my slide
on No. 12.
Mr. LIEBELER. So you did not actually observe the President at the time
he was hit in the head?
Mr. WILLIS. No, sir; I was just taking a picture of him, and the
presidential party in the car come through my viewfinder and my camera.
But my little daughter ran back and said, "Oh, Daddy, they have shot
our President. His whole head blew up, and it looked like a red halo."
Mr. LIEBELER. Which one? Is this the girl that is here today?
Mr. WILLIS. The little one was the one that made that remark. My
youngest daughter, Rosemary. The one that is with me today also saw it,
and she went back and told her mother the same thing. And her mother
said, "Yes; I saw it."
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, did you see anything hitting in the street along the
President's car as it went down Elm Street?
Mr. WILLIS. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. LIEBELER. You say there were three shots fired? You heard three
shots fired?
Mr. WILLIS. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you think that the President had been hit by the
first shot?
Mr. WILLIS. I didn't really know, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. You couldn't tell whether he was hit by the first shot?
You couldn't tell whether he had been hit by the first shot or the
second shot or the third shot, or by how many shots he had been hit?
Mr. WILLIS. No, sir; except this one thing might be worthy of mention.
When I took slide No. 4, the President was smiling and waving and
looking straight ahead, and Mrs. Kennedy was likewise smiling and
facing more to my side of the street. When the first shot was fired,
her head seemed to just snap in that direction, and he more or less
faced the other side of the street and leaned forward, which caused me
to wonder, although I could not see anything positively. It did cause
me to wonder.
Mr. LIEBELER. You say that the President looked toward his left; is
that correct? Toward the side of Elm Street that you are standing on,
or which way?
Mr. WILLIS. In slide No. 4 he was looking pretty much toward--straight
ahead, and she was looking more to the left, which would be my side of
the street. Then when the first shot was fired, she turned to the right
toward him and he more or less slumped forward, and it caused me to
wonder if he were hit, although I couldn't say.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. LIEBELER. In order to clarify some of the discussion we have had
about the various number of slides, I want to mark a set of your slides
as Willis Exhibit No. 1 and I have initialed a set of these, Mr.
Willis, with my own initials, and I will ask you to do the same thing
for the purpose of identification so we know what we are talking about
when we refer to this exhibit.
(Mr. Willis marks initials.)
Mr. LIEBELER. We have already established that the picture that has
been marked as Hudson's Exhibit No. 1 is a print made from the negative
or from slide No. 5 on Willis' Exhibit No. 1; is that correct?
Mr. WILLIS. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have occasion to look up toward the railroad
tracks that go across the triple underpass at any time, at about the
time the President was shot?
Mr. WILLIS. Yes; I did, after the third shot was fired.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was there anybody up there? Did you see anybody up there
on those railroad tracks?
Mr. WILLIS. Yes, sir; I had noticed before the President's arrival that
there were spectators up there, but there were also policemen up there.
Mr. LIEBELER. You did see policemen up there?
Mr. WILLIS. Yes, sir; there were definitely policemen up there among
the spectators.
Mr. LIEBELER. About how many spectators would you say were up there?
Was there a big crowd?
Mr. WILLIS. No, sir; there was no big crowd in the area, actually. But
I would say, and this is strictly a wild guess, maybe 2 dozen.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you see any evidence of any shots having been fired
from that direction?
Mr. WILLIS. No, sir; there was no doubt in my mind. I saw people
falling on the ground and police officers racing over toward a concrete
wall.
Mr. LIEBELER. Across the street from Elm Street?
Mr. WILLIS. Across the street from Elm Street on the same side as the
School Book Depository, which goes down the hill toward the underpass,
and the policemen started going over there, called to see if someone,
evidently thinking it came from that direction, and then is when I
started to ring this building. I knew it came from high above directly
across the street from me, and that is the one thing I was absolutely
positive about.
Mr. LIEBELER. You made that judgment from the sound of the shots?
Mr. WILLIS. From the sound, absolutely. And this may be verified by the
fact that I took several pictures of the crowd immediately around that
building.
Mr. LIEBELER. Yes; I notice.
Mr. WILLIS. I had no doubt about that, because I was that certain in my
own mind.
Mr. LIEBELER. I don't think I have any other questions about these
pictures, unless you can think of something else that you think I
should have asked you about, that I have forgotten about.
Mr. WILLIS. In slide No. 6, people were still on the ground and I took
that picture, knowing that the party had come to a temporary halt
before proceeding on to the underpass, and I have an arrow there which
shows the back of the Secret Service agent climbing onto the back of
the presidential car.
Mr. LIEBELER. That is that far in the background, way in the back of
the picture, or down toward the underpass of the street?
Mr. WILLIS. Yes; that would be the background.
Mr. LIEBELER. I think I would like to ask your daughter about three or
four questions about what she saw of it. We might just bring her in
while you are still here.