Mr. O'BRIEN. I must add, however, that during the course of this,
that none of us had any knowledge of actually what had occurred. And
I am sure that some of us gave thought to what might still occur. We
just had no idea. And we felt that certainly the first step was the
protection of the new President and the taking care of Mrs. Kennedy as
best we could. We tried to give some clarity of thoughts to the steps
that were necessary.
Mr. ADAMS. Now, you discussed these problems with Mr. O'Donnell and Mr.
Powers, I suppose.
Mr. O'BRIEN. Yes.
Mr. ADAMS. And anyone else?
Mr. O'BRIEN. I don't believe so.
Mr. ADAMS. I will take you back to the point where the coffin arrived.
What happened then?
Mr. O'BRIEN. The coffin was wheeled into the emergency room. At that
point, a man arrived on the scene who, I assume, was the coroner, or
someone representing the coroner's office. I do not know his name. And
he stated that the President could not be taken from the hospital.
Mr. ADAMS. Was this in Mrs. Kennedy's presence?
Mr. O'BRIEN. I recall this conversation took place just outside
those swinging doors with the glass panels. And I would--I believe,
therefore, that she did not hear this conversation.
Mr. ADAMS. Now, at the time the coffin was wheeled into the emergency
room, what did Mrs. Kennedy do? Did she enter at that time, or at any
time, so far as you recall?
Mr. O'BRIEN. My recollection is that she did enter the room, but I
don't recall it was at that time, and I am not sure what specific time.
Mr. ADAMS. Well, going back to this official who said the body could
not be removed--you were present at that time with Mr. O'Donnell and
Mr. Powers?
Mr. O'BRIEN. Yes.
Mr. ADAMS. And what happened with respect to that discussion?
Mr. O'BRIEN. Well, Dr. Burkley, the President's physician, entered
into that discussion. And as I recall he and this official went into a
little room just outside these doors and carried on further discussion
that seemed to involve members of the hospital staff and others. And
the discussion went on for a period of several minutes. Burkley--Dr.
Burkley was quite exercised. It was apparent that this fellow was not
going to--he was going to be adamant in his position. And very soon
another official arrived on the scene that was described to me as a
judge.
Mr. ADAMS. Does the name Brown refresh your recollection?
Mr. O'BRIEN. I don't know as I heard his name. But he was then
described as the judge--a judge, and the indication was that he,
therefore, was in a higher position of authority than the other
official that had been carrying on this discussion with Dr. Burkley.
He was equally adamant. The reference was made, either specifically by
him or by someone in the official group, that this had to be treated
as just another homicide, and that no other--no special considerations
could be given to the problem. That, of course, increased our concern
about Mrs. Kennedy, who said she would not leave her husband, and
that we could envision Mrs. Kennedy in that state in the hospital for
hours or even longer. So, therefore, it was our determination that the
President should be taken from the hospital.
Mr. ADAMS. This was the determination of you, Mr. O'Donnell, and Dr.
Burkley?
Mr. O'BRIEN. That is right.
Mr. ADAMS. Then what happened?
Mr. O'BRIEN. The casket was brought out from the emergency room,
wheeled out through these two folding doors. And the members of the
Secret Service gathered around it. They had made a determination on
their own as to the exit. An ambulance was waiting. Preparations had
been made by the Secret Service to accomplish this. And we all--Mr.
O'Donnell, Mr. Powers and I, General McHugh, and two or three members
of the Secret Service proceeded to push the coffin down this corridor.
My recollection is that objections were still being raised by some or
all officials. My recollection is also that we paid little heed to it.
Mr. ADAMS. These were vigorous objections, I gather.
Mr. O'BRIEN. I would say they were. And the only very minor problem
that occurred in reaching the exit was that the priest who was third in
point of arrival was still present. The other two priests had departed
after expressing their condolences to Mrs. Kennedy. But this priest was
standing in the corridor and was rather insistent that he formalize
some prayers at that point. And I suggested to him that he step aside.
Our concern still was whether or not there was going to be an effective
block put in our way.
Mr. ADAMS. And who accompanied Mrs. Kennedy at that time?
Mr. O'BRIEN. I believe in the grouping behind the casket that at one
time Mr. O'Donnell, another time me, and another time perhaps Mr.
Powers--but among us we escorted her along.
Mr. ADAMS. Then when you finally got the casket out through this
corridor, and got it into the ambulance, how did you go to the airport?
Mr. O'BRIEN. In a car that was parked alongside the ambulance. The
driver in the car--Mrs. Kennedy went into the ambulance. And Mr.
O'Donnell, Mr. Powers, and I went into the back seat of this car.
Mr. ADAMS. Was this a police car?
Mr. O'BRIEN. It was an official car of some sort.
Mr. ADAMS. At that time do you know whether or not the Vice President
had left the hospital?
Mr. O'BRIEN. I do not know.
Mr. ADAMS. Had he arrived at Love Field by the time you got out there?
Mr. O'BRIEN. Yes.
Mr. ADAMS. And what happened when you arrived at Love Field?
Mr. O'BRIEN. Well, again the Secret Service and those of us in the
official party that had arrived at the field--I guess specifically
again the three of us--helped to move the coffin up the steps of the
plane. It was a difficult job, because the steps, of course, were the
normal set of stairs for a plane, and, therefore, it was too narrow to
accomplish this without some difficulty. But it was brought onto the
plane.
At that point I noticed that seats to the left of the door had been
removed, leaving a floor space in the plane to place the coffin. We
placed the coffin on the floor. Then I looked up, and the President and
Mrs. Johnson were at the corridor that would go into the compartment
from that area of the plane.
Mrs. Kennedy came aboard and was seated in the remaining two seats at
a table to the left in the rear compartment, and Mrs. Johnson and the
President went over to her.
Mr. ADAMS. Do you know how it came to pass that the President was sworn
in at that time?
Mr. O'BRIEN. The President and Mrs. Johnson, after a brief discussion
with Mrs. Kennedy, went into the Presidential compartment--I guess
that is the best way to describe that section of the plane--this would
be where the President's chair and desk are located. He asked Mr.
O'Donnell to join him.
During the course of these few minutes, it was my understanding that we
were going to immediately depart. There was some confusion for a couple
of minutes about departure. I was not privy to that. And the President
asked the two of us to sit with him, at which point he said that he was
awaiting a judge who was en route to swear him in--that he had secured
the advice of the Attorney General, which, as I understood it, was a
preference in his view to have a swearing in ceremony immediately. And
that this would be accomplished within a matter of minutes.
So while we awaited the arrival of the judge, the President, Mr.
O'Donnell and I, joined by Mrs. Johnson, after a couple of minutes,
sat at this table with the four seats, and just discussed the fact
that the departure would take place immediately following the swearing
in ceremony. And during that period we briefly discussed the first
step of the President to insure continuity, and either just before the
swearing-in or immediately following it, the President discussed with
Mr. O'Donnell and me his desire that we stay, as he put it, shoulder to
shoulder with him.