Mr. SORRELS. But the actual preparation was along the same lines.
Mr. STERN. You have been following a procedure and pattern as long as
you have been doing this kind of work?
Mr. SORRELS. Yes, sir.
Mr. STERN. It has been pretty much the same procedure?
Mr. SORRELS. That is correct, sir.
Mr. STERN. When you know that a President is coming to the area under
your jurisdiction, what arrangements do you try to work out with the
Police Department?
Mr. SORRELS. We will have a conference with the Chief of Police and his
key personnel, usually when it is determined what the program is going
to be.
In some instances where there has to be a meeting with the advance man
from the White House detail, and for the local committee and the plans
are not entirely solid, we have found that to bring the police in at
that time is a little bit premature, because I have known of instances
where we have had such meetings and the orders have been cut, and then
they had to be changed, because of some change.
So, insofar as is possible, the meeting with the police is held at a
time when we know pretty much what the program is going to be. And that
procedure is followed in every instance.
In some instances, as I mentioned a moment ago there, when President
Kennedy came to the Baylor Hospital, we didn't have very much time--it
is something we have to work out very rapidly, and which was done
in this instance with the Chief of Police and his key men, and the
security was set up on a very, very short notice.
Mr. STERN. But normally, when you have the time, you like, as I
understand it, to try to make your arrangements----
Mr. SORRELS. Oh, yes; as far in advance as possible, because we realize
that it is quite a task for them, because they have got many men
involved, and many things that have to be taken into consideration, so
that their orders can be properly drawn and the men dispatched to the
proper places with a knowledge of what they are supposed to do.
Mr. STERN. But you do try to have the trip or the motorcade route, if
there is to be a motorcade, pretty well worked out before you go to the
police?
Mr. SORRELS. We usually have an idea what we would like to do, and we,
of course, confer with the police because they may have in instances
knowledge that we don't have about a certain area that it might not be
appropriate to use or to go into.
Mr. STERN. Let's see if we can relate this now to President Kennedy's
trip to Dallas in November.
When did you first hear that he was to make this trip, Mr. Sorrels?
Mr. SORRELS. On November 4, 1963, I received a long distance call from
Special Agent in Charge Gerald A. Behn, of the White House Detail,
stating that the President would probably visit Dallas about November
21, and that there had been a couple of buildings suggested, one of
them being the Trade Mart, which he understood had about 60 entrances
to it, and six catwalks over the area where the luncheon would be. And
that the second choice that had been suggested then was the Women's
Building at the State Fair Grounds. That was another place referred to
as a trade center, which is actually Market Hall, which is across the
street from the Trade Mart.
He instructed that I make a survey of these buildings and report back
to him the conditions.
Mr. STERN. What did you do?
Mr. SORRELS. Accompanied by Special Agent Robert A. Stewart of my
office, we went to the Trade Mart and looked the situation over there,
and we did find that there were entrances coming into, you might call
it, a courtyard where the luncheon was to have been--entrances coming
into that area. And that there were two suspension bridges or catwalks
on the second floor and on the third floor.
The outside entrances were no particular problem, but it did mean
that it would take quite a bit of manpower to cover each one of the
entrances that could come on to the balcony, you might say, that was
entirely around on the second and the third floors.
We then went to the Market Hall, which was ideal insofar as security
measures were concerned, in that there were only three outside
entrances, and it was a huge hall, 107,000 square feet, with no
columns, and you could seat about 20,000 people in there.
But there was another function going to be there at that time--the
American Bottling Association was going to have, as I recall, an
exhibit there. So that part was out.
We then went to Fair Park, where we made a survey of the Women's
Building. It is a place where they have exhibits during the fair of all
kinds of handiwork and things like that.
That building had about 45,000 square feet in it, and you could seat
about 5,000 people in it. Securitywise it wasn't bad at all, because
there were two end openings to the building, and there was actually
an area where you could drive a car in there. But the building was
not satisfactory for that type of function--the President of the
United States coming there--because the ceilings were quite low, the
air-conditioning equipment and everything was all exposed, there were
many steel suspension supports throughout the area.
I then returned to my office and telephoned to Mr. Behn and informed
him of my findings and told him that securitywise the Women's Building
appeared to be preferable, but that it wasn't a very nice place to take
the President.