And he said "No."

I was satisfied in my own mind that he knew what he was doing, and

that he didn't want me or the Dallas Bar Association to do anything

right now. So, I left, and as I left the chief asked me whether or not

I wanted to make a statement to the press, and I said, "Well, I don't

know whether I do or not. I don't know whether it is the thing to do or

not." And he said, "Well, they are going to be right outside the door

there, and if you want to say anything this would be an opportunity to

do it."

He said, "Incidentally, I am very glad you came up here. We don't want

any question coming up about us refusing to let him have a lawyer. As

far as I know, he has never asked for one. He has never asked to call

one."

And I believe the chief mentioned that Mr. Abt's name, but he said, "He

has never asked us to call him."

He said, "Do you think we have an obligation?" And I said, "I don't

know."

He said, "I am glad that you came down and talked to him. At least that

takes a problem off of us about not furnishing him a lawyer."

And so, we--about that time we stepped out of the door and there was

just a whole swarm of photographers and cameramen standing right

there. Right outside the door on the third floor. They came out in the

third floor, reached back down in the third floor, and the chief told

them who I was, and what I had been up there for, and oh, for 4 or 5

minutes, what turned out to be live television interview, whether or

not--they asked me if I thought he was guilty, and if he had admitted

anything, and I told them that I didn't ask him, and he didn't tell

me, and they merely wanted to know the reason I was up here, and

that interview is something, I assume, that you have, or will be made

available. I don't remember exactly what transpired, and then--but they

asked me what his attitude was, whether he was belligerent and--or

scared, and to me, he appeared to be neither belligerent nor scared.

He appeared to be a man that was pretty calm, I thought, under the

circumstances. He appeared to me that he knew where he was and pretty

much what his rights were with regard to being represented, and he

knew apparently--at least the conversation was that if he didn't get

somebody to represent him that he wanted that he could always fall back

on the bar association, or somebody, and I had told him that I would

see him next week if he wanted me to, and I satisfied myself at least,

to the extent, that the man appeared to know what he was doing. He did

not appear to be irrational. He appeared to be calm. He turned down

my offer of help, and I felt like at that point that was all I needed

to do, and this was later Saturday afternoon, and I had no inkling

that anything else, except maybe that the next week if he didn't get a

lawyer I might hear from him, or check into it, and that's all I know

about Mr. Lee Harvey Oswald.

Mr. STERN. That's quite a complete statement. Let's just cover a few

details. What was his physical condition, as you observed it?

Mr. NICHOLS. Well, he had a little scratch, or bruise over one eye. I

have forgotten whether over the left or right, but other than that, as

I recall, there were no indication of any other injuries or marks on

him that I could tell. He was dressed, I believe, in a white T-shirt

and slacks, and appeared to me to be in normal condition. I mean, there

was nothing obviously wrong with him from a physical standpoint, as I

could observe.

Mr. STERN. Did he seem well rested, or tired?

Mr. NICHOLS. No; he seemed all right. When I went in there he was lying

on his back and he got up and he didn't--he looked like he was calm,

and was rested, and it--didn't appear to have--now this is a guess,

and my own observation, did not appear to me to have been mistreated.

I was interested in observing whether or not he--it looked like he had

been mistreated, because, as a lawyer, I anticipate perhaps that he--if

he had been mistreated, or might claim he had been mistreated it was

something I should have observed at that time, and I observed nothing

to indicate that.

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