We went into his private room and closed the door, and those present
were Captain Will Fritz, of the Dallas Police Department, Forrest V.
Sorrels, local agent in charge of Secret Service, and Thomas J. Kelley,
inspector, Secret Service, from Washington, and also about three
detectives who were not identified to me, but simply were guarding
Oswald who was handcuffed and seated at Will Fritz' desk.
Mr. BELIN. All right, now. Will you state if you remember--do you have
a written memorandum there of that interview?
Mr. HOLMES. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. I wonder if you would just let me ask you: When did you make
your written memorandum?
Mr. HOLMES. On December 17, 1963.
Mr. BELIN. I wonder if, using your memorandum to refresh your
recollection, you would just say what was said by any of the people
there and just cover the whole thing? I will take it up section by
section. Just start out. This started around 9:30, is that it, on
Sunday morning?
Mr. HOLMES. Yes, sir. Now, this is my impression, not what he said.
Mr. BELIN. I notice the first paragraph, you have an impression on
that? I wonder perhaps what we might do is, I am going to see if I have
a copy of this, and if I can, to attach just as a--is this an extra
copy that you have here?
Mr. HOLMES. Yes; I guess you can. Let me tear that top off.
Mr. BELIN. I am going to mark this as "Holmes Deposition Exhibit No.
4." This is a memorandum of your interview?
Mr. HOLMES. That I dictated on December 17, 1963.
Mr. BELIN. That is about 4 weeks after the interview took place; is
that correct?
Mr. HOLMES. That's correct.
Mr. BELIN. Do you have any notes from which you dictated this interview?
Mr. HOLMES. I had a few notes. I had no reason for such a statement
except that about that time the FBI asked me--they learned that I
had been in on this interrogation, and asked me if I would object to
giving them a statement as to what went on in that room, and this is my
statement. Part of it was from notes and part of it was from memory.
Mr. BELIN. Now, I notice--well, you might just, without even looking at
the memorandum, first just give us your general impression of what went
on there.
Mr. HOLMES. There was no formality to the interrogation. One man would
question Oswald. Another would interrupt with a different trend of
thought, or something in connection, and it was sort of an informal
questioning or interrogation.
Oswald was quite composed. He answered readily those questions that he
wanted to answer. He could cut off just like with a knife anything that
he didn't want to answer.
And those particular things that he didn't want to answer were anything
that pertained with the assassination of the President or the shooting
of Officer Tippit. He flatly denied any knowledge of either.
He was not particularly obnoxious. He seemed to be intelligent. He
seemed to be clearminded. He seemed to have a good memory, because in
questioning him about the boxes, which I had original applications
in front of me, he was pretty accurate. He knew box numbers and he
answered these questions readily and answered them truthfully, as
verified by the box rental applications that I had in front of me.
Mr. BELIN. What was Oswald wearing at the time you saw him?
Mr. HOLMES. He was bareheaded. He had a sport shirt on and slacks, pair
of trousers.
Mr. BELIN. What color trousers?
Mr. HOLMES. Sort of a medium. On the light side I would say.
Mr. BELIN. What color shirt?
Mr. HOLMES. I don't recall. It was not a loud shirt. It was not
outstanding. I don't know what color actually he had on. I do know, I
can tell you when he put on the black sweater and all that.
Mr. BELIN. He put on a black sweater?
Mr. HOLMES. Toward the end--that is the last thing on my memorandum.
Mr. BELIN. Now, do you remember Captain Fritz showing a map, showing
Oswald a map of the city of Dallas which had been recovered from his
room?
Mr. HOLMES. He didn't show the map. He only mentioned the map and asked
him about a certain map that had markings on it, and Oswald said,
"Well, I presume you have reference to a map that I had in my room that
had some X's on it."
And, he said, "Well, tell us about that one. Why were the X's on there?
What did that designate?"
And he said that, "I have no automobile. I have no means of conveyance.
I have to walk from where I am going most of the time. And I had my
applications in with Texas Employment Commission. They furnished me
names and addresses of places that had openings like I might could
fill, and neighborhood people had furnished me information on jobs I
might could get. I was seeking a job, and I would put these markings on
this map so that I could plan my itinerary around with less walking,
and each one of those represented a place where I went and interviewed
for a job."